I have read opinions both for and against a boom vang for the M15. The argument for is that it is an essential sail control, the argument against is usually that it is unnecessary and just complicates a delightfully simple rig. I have also been advised to fly the main loose footed for better performance but have never seen a photo of an M15 rigged so. Anyone add a vang and love/hate it? Anyone sail loose footed? Notice a difference? Paul McAleavy M15 #471 Callisto -- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
the M15 NEEDS a vang! the M17 needs a vang. the Sage Cat/15/17 need vangs (why vangs are standard equipment on the boats). the vang is required to keep the boom down when headed off the wind and, if you like, adjusting the sail going to weather (i'm not, so much, an adjust the vang guy going to weather). the mainsheet is not very effective in control the boom off the wind, the boom vang IS. the vang can also be used a preventer (if set up with snap shackles). you can also use a 'preventer' pull the boom port and starboard when not sailing to get it out of the way. if more detail on how to use the vang and/or how to install a vang let me know. (Gary 'Boom Vang' Oberbeck feel free to jump in!) :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have read opinions both for and against a boom vang for the M15. The argument for is that it is an essential sail control, the argument against is usually that it is unnecessary and just complicates a delightfully simple rig. I have also been advised to fly the main loose footed for better performance but have never seen a photo of an M15 rigged so. Anyone add a vang and love/hate it? Anyone sail loose footed? Notice a difference?
Paul McAleavy M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
If you and/or Jerry or others want to indicate optimal attachment points for an M17 vang (hopefully you agree, more or less ;-), that would be great. My M17 came with no vang. I actually have most of the tackle I would need to add one. I just use a bungee cord for holding the mast to the side when sail down and anchored or at dock. But the preventer function while sailing could be nice to have also. cheers, John S. On 04/13/2017 11:58 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
the M15 NEEDS a vang! the M17 needs a vang. the Sage Cat/15/17 need vangs (why vangs are standard equipment on the boats). the vang is required to keep the boom down when headed off the wind and, if you like, adjusting the sail going to weather (i'm not, so much, an adjust the vang guy going to weather). the mainsheet is not very effective in control the boom off the wind, the boom vang IS.
the vang can also be used a preventer (if set up with snap shackles). you can also use a 'preventer' pull the boom port and starboard when not sailing to get it out of the way.
if more detail on how to use the vang and/or how to install a vang let me know.
(Gary 'Boom Vang' Oberbeck feel free to jump in!)
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have read opinions both for and against a boom vang for the M15. The argument for is that it is an essential sail control, the argument against is usually that it is unnecessary and just complicates a delightfully simple rig. I have also been advised to fly the main loose footed for better performance but have never seen a photo of an M15 rigged so. Anyone add a vang and love/hate it? Anyone sail loose footed? Notice a difference?
Paul McAleavy M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John: Vang bail is 30" aft of the gooseneck end of the boom. vang attaches near the bottom of the mast (many ways to do this or get an organizer plate that has a made-in attachment point - see attached picture and note how the snap shackle attaches to the organizer plate on the lower 'end' of the vang). :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:11 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
If you and/or Jerry or others want to indicate optimal attachment points for an M17 vang (hopefully you agree, more or less ;-), that would be great.
My M17 came with no vang. I actually have most of the tackle I would need to add one.
I just use a bungee cord for holding the mast to the side when sail down and anchored or at dock. But the preventer function while sailing could be nice to have also.
cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
The vang should be attached to the mast (or, organizer plate, as Dave says) as low as possible, and put the boom attachment where you or the crew can reach it, but know that the closer to a right triangle the better. If you use a snap shackle on the bottom (mast) end you can attach it to a eye on or near the rail and use the same vang as a true preventor. Don[t go overboard on using the vang- I think most sailors use it to tightly. On most boats, if you leave it just slightly slack upwind it will be about right downwind or reaching. Use the vang in conjunction with the mainsheet to control the twist in the main. On a dead run, the boom can only go forward until it hits the shroud but if you let it twist off until the upper part of the sail is perpendicular to the axis of the boat, you'll go faster, assuming you care. Remember that in heavy air, in the puffs the leach of the main will fall off and cause the boat to heel to the side opposite the boom znd possibly cause control problem, so in those conditions it's best to vang tightly. The M-15 handles very well in heavy air and can carry full sails on a broad reach or run; I've done it in the Sea of Cortez in 25 and 20 kn winds and really big waves caused by tidal currents, and was surfing at 10 or 12 knots in relative security. Great fun. When you put the boat to bed you can leave the vang attached to the boom, and when you roll up the sail on the boom the vang will take care of itself. Way better than having to unthread it each time. -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:11 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 vang and loose foot main - M17 vang specs? If you and/or Jerry or others want to indicate optimal attachment points for an M17 vang (hopefully you agree, more or less ;-), that would be great. My M17 came with no vang. I actually have most of the tackle I would need to add one. I just use a bungee cord for holding the mast to the side when sail down and anchored or at dock. But the preventer function while sailing could be nice to have also. cheers, John S. On 04/13/2017 11:58 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
the M15 NEEDS a vang! the M17 needs a vang. the Sage Cat/15/17 need vangs (why vangs are standard equipment on the boats). the vang is required to keep the boom down when headed off the wind and, if you like, adjusting the sail going to weather (i'm not, so much, an adjust the vang guy going to weather). the mainsheet is not very effective in control the boom off the wind, the boom vang IS.
the vang can also be used a preventer (if set up with snap shackles). you can also use a 'preventer' pull the boom port and starboard when not sailing to get it out of the way.
if more detail on how to use the vang and/or how to install a vang let me know.
(Gary 'Boom Vang' Oberbeck feel free to jump in!)
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have read opinions both for and against a boom vang for the M15. The argument for is that it is an essential sail control, the argument against is usually that it is unnecessary and just complicates a delightfully simple rig. I have also been advised to fly the main loose footed for better performance but have never seen a photo of an M15 rigged so. Anyone add a vang and love/hate it? Anyone sail loose footed? Notice a difference?
Paul McAleavy M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Make that 25 and 30 kn winds! -----Original Message----- From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 1:11 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 vang and loose foot main - M17 vang specs? The vang should be attached to the mast (or, organizer plate, as Dave says) as low as possible, and put the boom attachment where you or the crew can reach it, but know that the closer to a right triangle the better. If you use a snap shackle on the bottom (mast) end you can attach it to a eye on or near the rail and use the same vang as a true preventor. Don[t go overboard on using the vang- I think most sailors use it to tightly. On most boats, if you leave it just slightly slack upwind it will be about right downwind or reaching. Use the vang in conjunction with the mainsheet to control the twist in the main. On a dead run, the boom can only go forward until it hits the shroud but if you let it twist off until the upper part of the sail is perpendicular to the axis of the boat, you'll go faster, assuming you care. Remember that in heavy air, in the puffs the leach of the main will fall off and cause the boat to heel to the side opposite the boom znd possibly cause control problem, so in those conditions it's best to vang tightly. The M-15 handles very well in heavy air and can carry full sails on a broad reach or run; I've done it in the Sea of Cortez in 25 and 20 kn winds and really big waves caused by tidal currents, and was surfing at 10 or 12 knots in relative security. Great fun. When you put the boat to bed you can leave the vang attached to the boom, and when you roll up the sail on the boom the vang will take care of itself. Way better than having to unthread it each time. -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:11 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 vang and loose foot main - M17 vang specs? If you and/or Jerry or others want to indicate optimal attachment points for an M17 vang (hopefully you agree, more or less ;-), that would be great. My M17 came with no vang. I actually have most of the tackle I would need to add one. I just use a bungee cord for holding the mast to the side when sail down and anchored or at dock. But the preventer function while sailing could be nice to have also. cheers, John S. On 04/13/2017 11:58 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
the M15 NEEDS a vang! the M17 needs a vang. the Sage Cat/15/17 need vangs (why vangs are standard equipment on the boats). the vang is required to keep the boom down when headed off the wind and, if you like, adjusting the sail going to weather (i'm not, so much, an adjust the vang guy going to weather). the mainsheet is not very effective in control the boom off the wind, the boom vang IS.
the vang can also be used a preventer (if set up with snap shackles). you can also use a 'preventer' pull the boom port and starboard when not sailing to get it out of the way.
if more detail on how to use the vang and/or how to install a vang let me know.
(Gary 'Boom Vang' Oberbeck feel free to jump in!)
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have read opinions both for and against a boom vang for the M15. The argument for is that it is an essential sail control, the argument against is usually that it is unnecessary and just complicates a delightfully simple rig. I have also been advised to fly the main loose footed for better performance but have never seen a photo of an M15 rigged so. Anyone add a vang and love/hate it? Anyone sail loose footed? Notice a difference?
Paul McAleavy M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks Dave and Jerry for prompt replies...will add this to my to-do list for this season's improvements. cheers, John S. On 04/13/2017 01:11 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
The vang should be attached to the mast (or, organizer plate, as Dave says) as low as possible, and put the boom attachment where you or the crew can reach it, but know that the closer to a right triangle the better. If you use a snap shackle on the bottom (mast) end you can attach it to a eye on or near the rail and use the same vang as a true preventor. Don[t go overboard on using the vang- I think most sailors use it to tightly. On most boats, if you leave it just slightly slack upwind it will be about right downwind or reaching. Use the vang in conjunction with the mainsheet to control the twist in the main. On a dead run, the boom can only go forward until it hits the shroud but if you let it twist off until the upper part of the sail is perpendicular to the axis of the boat, you'll go faster, assuming you care. Remember that in heavy air, in the puffs the leach of the main will fall off and cause the boat to heel to the side opposite the boom znd possibly cause control problem, so in those conditions it's best to vang tightly. The M-15 handles very well in heavy air and can carry full sails on a broad reach or run; I've done it in the Sea of Cortez in 25 and 20 kn winds and really big waves caused by tidal currents, and was surfing at 10 or 12 knots in relative security. Great fun. When you put the boat to bed you can leave the vang attached to the boom, and when you roll up the sail on the boom the vang will take care of itself. Way better than having to unthread it each time.
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:11 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 vang and loose foot main - M17 vang specs?
If you and/or Jerry or others want to indicate optimal attachment points for an M17 vang (hopefully you agree, more or less ;-), that would be great.
My M17 came with no vang. I actually have most of the tackle I would need to add one.
I just use a bungee cord for holding the mast to the side when sail down and anchored or at dock. But the preventer function while sailing could be nice to have also.
cheers, John S.
On 04/13/2017 11:58 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
the M15 NEEDS a vang! the M17 needs a vang. the Sage Cat/15/17 need vangs (why vangs are standard equipment on the boats). the vang is required to keep the boom down when headed off the wind and, if you like, adjusting the sail going to weather (i'm not, so much, an adjust the vang guy going to weather). the mainsheet is not very effective in control the boom off the wind, the boom vang IS.
the vang can also be used a preventer (if set up with snap shackles). you can also use a 'preventer' pull the boom port and starboard when not sailing to get it out of the way.
if more detail on how to use the vang and/or how to install a vang let me know.
(Gary 'Boom Vang' Oberbeck feel free to jump in!)
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have read opinions both for and against a boom vang for the M15. The argument for is that it is an essential sail control, the argument against is usually that it is unnecessary and just complicates a delightfully simple rig. I have also been advised to fly the main loose footed for better performance but have never seen a photo of an M15 rigged so. Anyone add a vang and love/hate it? Anyone sail loose footed? Notice a difference?
Paul McAleavy M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (4)
-
Dave Scobie -
jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org -
John Schinnerer -
Paul McAleavy