On 7/5/19 3:59 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
John, you mentioned cheek blocks and clamcleats on starboard side of your boom for clew reefing; are there some form of eye straps used as anchor points on the port side?
Yep, exactly. Just ordinary eye straps, something like the small one of these two is fine: https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rl-311-parent.htm
And can you describe how your outhaul is configured? At the rear of my boom is a what I think is called a terminal eye strap. For now I put a D shackle through it, ran the outhaul line through it, and then ran it forward to the port side clamcleat shown in my earlier photo (you mentioned it was possibly for a topping lift). It seems to work fine temporarily, but should I have some block in use there?
That will get you sailing, but better to have it on starboard side (so you can use the topping lift cleat for topping lift, and, because generally we want reefing controls on starboard side, because generally we reef when hove to on starboard tack, because then technically your boat has certain rights of way that you wouldn't have on port tack, just in case...) See attached pics of my boom...not necessarily in order of description below... One shows detail of outhaul - a very small block attached with small shackle to the strap with eye at aft end of boom like yours (sometimes called a 'spin strap', no idea why). Outhaul goes through that block, down across one side of a cheek block to redirect it, and then forward to a clamcleat with fairlead. One pic shows aft end with outhaul, cheek blocks for outhaul and first reef. Another shows the three clamcleats - lower one for outhaul, upper two for 1st and 2nd reef respectively (no line in place for 2nd reef in pics). The cleats are positioned for easy working from forward part of cockpit, and also so the excess line when reefed hangs into the companionway rather than being underfoot in the cockpit. Another shows most of the boom from aft end to clamcleats, so you can see the whole setup. Cheek block forward of the other two is for 2nd reef line. And one pic shows the other (port) side of the boom, with little cheek block for topping lift and eye strap for termination of 1st reef line. If you just tie the line to the clew reefing grommet and then down through the block you don't need that of course. It's only needed for running the line 2:1 from port side thru grommet to block on starboard side. The way my outhaul is rigged - sliding loop around boom then thru grommet to outhaul block - is a nifty trick that functions as both outhaul and clew strap at the same time and is mostly self-adjusting (a clew strap is otherwise as separate line or webbing to hold the clew close to the boom). The Swiss cheese effect here and there on my boom is merely a result of moving and/or replacing most all the hardware from the previously installed setup. HTH, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John, that is very helpful! I really appreciate you laying that out to take photos. Now it is all very clear to me. We spent most of today on the boat with some new friends, and we got some great instruction/coaching from them. Tomorrow doesn't look like good sailing wx so we may take a ride for some hardware to complete all of this. Thanks so much! -Gerry
On Jul 5, 2019, at 4:56 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 7/5/19 3:59 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
John, you mentioned cheek blocks and clamcleats on starboard side of your boom for clew reefing; are there some form of eye straps used as anchor points on the port side?
Yep, exactly. Just ordinary eye straps, something like the small one of these two is fine: https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rl-311-parent.htm
And can you describe how your outhaul is configured? At the rear of my boom is a what I think is called a terminal eye strap. For now I put a D shackle through it, ran the outhaul line through it, and then ran it forward to the port side clamcleat shown in my earlier photo (you mentioned it was possibly for a topping lift). It seems to work fine temporarily, but should I have some block in use there?
That will get you sailing, but better to have it on starboard side (so you can use the topping lift cleat for topping lift, and, because generally we want reefing controls on starboard side, because generally we reef when hove to on starboard tack, because then technically your boat has certain rights of way that you wouldn't have on port tack, just in case...)
See attached pics of my boom...not necessarily in order of description below...
One shows detail of outhaul - a very small block attached with small shackle to the strap with eye at aft end of boom like yours (sometimes called a 'spin strap', no idea why). Outhaul goes through that block, down across one side of a cheek block to redirect it, and then forward to a clamcleat with fairlead.
One pic shows aft end with outhaul, cheek blocks for outhaul and first reef.
Another shows the three clamcleats - lower one for outhaul, upper two for 1st and 2nd reef respectively (no line in place for 2nd reef in pics). The cleats are positioned for easy working from forward part of cockpit, and also so the excess line when reefed hangs into the companionway rather than being underfoot in the cockpit.
Another shows most of the boom from aft end to clamcleats, so you can see the whole setup. Cheek block forward of the other two is for 2nd reef line.
And one pic shows the other (port) side of the boom, with little cheek block for topping lift and eye strap for termination of 1st reef line.
If you just tie the line to the clew reefing grommet and then down through the block you don't need that of course. It's only needed for running the line 2:1 from port side thru grommet to block on starboard side.
The way my outhaul is rigged - sliding loop around boom then thru grommet to outhaul block - is a nifty trick that functions as both outhaul and clew strap at the same time and is mostly self-adjusting (a clew strap is otherwise as separate line or webbing to hold the clew close to the boom).
The Swiss cheese effect here and there on my boom is merely a result of moving and/or replacing most all the hardware from the previously installed setup.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <P7050004.jpeg> <P7050001.jpeg> <P7050005.jpeg> <P7050002.jpeg> <P7050003.jpeg>
Using Clamcleats makes for faster reefing. Why? You figure how far down to lower the main and no need to raise the sail to tighten the luff. With a horn you need to raise the main again and at this point the boat has likely fallen offf and filled the sail making it very hard to tighten the luff. I recommend the cunningham leading to the cockpit for easy adjustment. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 5:54 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
John, that is very helpful! I really appreciate you laying that out to take photos. Now it is all very clear to me. We spent most of today on the boat with some new friends, and we got some great instruction/coaching from them. Tomorrow doesn't look like good sailing wx so we may take a ride for some hardware to complete all of this. Thanks so much!
-Gerry
On Jul 5, 2019, at 4:56 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 7/5/19 3:59 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
John, you mentioned cheek blocks and clamcleats on starboard side of your boom for clew reefing; are there some form of eye straps used as anchor points on the port side?
Yep, exactly. Just ordinary eye straps, something like the small one of these two is fine: https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rl-311-parent.htm
And can you describe how your outhaul is configured? At the rear of my boom is a what I think is called a terminal eye strap. For now I put a D shackle through it, ran the outhaul line through it, and then ran it forward to the port side clamcleat shown in my earlier photo (you mentioned it was possibly for a topping lift). It seems to work fine temporarily, but should I have some block in use there?
That will get you sailing, but better to have it on starboard side (so you can use the topping lift cleat for topping lift, and, because generally we want reefing controls on starboard side, because generally we reef when hove to on starboard tack, because then technically your boat has certain rights of way that you wouldn't have on port tack, just in case...)
See attached pics of my boom...not necessarily in order of description below...
One shows detail of outhaul - a very small block attached with small shackle to the strap with eye at aft end of boom like yours (sometimes called a 'spin strap', no idea why). Outhaul goes through that block, down across one side of a cheek block to redirect it, and then forward to a clamcleat with fairlead.
One pic shows aft end with outhaul, cheek blocks for outhaul and first reef.
Another shows the three clamcleats - lower one for outhaul, upper two for 1st and 2nd reef respectively (no line in place for 2nd reef in pics). The cleats are positioned for easy working from forward part of cockpit, and also so the excess line when reefed hangs into the companionway rather than being underfoot in the cockpit.
Another shows most of the boom from aft end to clamcleats, so you can see the whole setup. Cheek block forward of the other two is for 2nd reef line.
And one pic shows the other (port) side of the boom, with little cheek block for topping lift and eye strap for termination of 1st reef line.
If you just tie the line to the clew reefing grommet and then down through the block you don't need that of course. It's only needed for running the line 2:1 from port side thru grommet to block on starboard side.
The way my outhaul is rigged - sliding loop around boom then thru grommet to outhaul block - is a nifty trick that functions as both outhaul and clew strap at the same time and is mostly self-adjusting (a clew strap is otherwise as separate line or webbing to hold the clew close to the boom).
The Swiss cheese effect here and there on my boom is merely a result of moving and/or replacing most all the hardware from the previously installed setup.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <P7050004.jpeg> <P7050001.jpeg> <P7050005.jpeg> <P7050002.jpeg> <P7050003.jpeg>
Good points Dave. I like the sound of that. Thanks! -Gerry
On Jul 6, 2019, at 12:56 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Using Clamcleats makes for faster reefing. Why? You figure how far down to lower the main and no need to raise the sail to tighten the luff. With a horn you need to raise the main again and at this point the boat has likely fallen offf and filled the sail making it very hard to tighten the luff.
I recommend the cunningham leading to the cockpit for easy adjustment.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 ::
Hi Dave, Are you talking about using a cam cleat for the main halyard? If so, where/how do you mount it? Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Gerry Lempicki" <ka1stz@yahoo.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2019 9:56:28 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 questions round 2 - reefing setups Using Clamcleats makes for faster reefing. Why? You figure how far down to lower the main and no need to raise the sail to tighten the luff. With a horn you need to raise the main again and at this point the boat has likely fallen offf and filled the sail making it very hard to tighten the luff. I recommend the cunningham leading to the cockpit for easy adjustment. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 5:54 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
John, that is very helpful! I really appreciate you laying that out to take photos. Now it is all very clear to me. We spent most of today on the boat with some new friends, and we got some great instruction/coaching from them. Tomorrow doesn't look like good sailing wx so we may take a ride for some hardware to complete all of this. Thanks so much!
-Gerry
On Jul 5, 2019, at 4:56 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 7/5/19 3:59 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
John, you mentioned cheek blocks and clamcleats on starboard side of your boom for clew reefing; are there some form of eye straps used as anchor points on the port side?
Yep, exactly. Just ordinary eye straps, something like the small one of these two is fine: https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rl-311-parent.htm
And can you describe how your outhaul is configured? At the rear of my boom is a what I think is called a terminal eye strap. For now I put a D shackle through it, ran the outhaul line through it, and then ran it forward to the port side clamcleat shown in my earlier photo (you mentioned it was possibly for a topping lift). It seems to work fine temporarily, but should I have some block in use there?
That will get you sailing, but better to have it on starboard side (so you can use the topping lift cleat for topping lift, and, because generally we want reefing controls on starboard side, because generally we reef when hove to on starboard tack, because then technically your boat has certain rights of way that you wouldn't have on port tack, just in case...)
See attached pics of my boom...not necessarily in order of description below...
One shows detail of outhaul - a very small block attached with small shackle to the strap with eye at aft end of boom like yours (sometimes called a 'spin strap', no idea why). Outhaul goes through that block, down across one side of a cheek block to redirect it, and then forward to a clamcleat with fairlead.
One pic shows aft end with outhaul, cheek blocks for outhaul and first reef.
Another shows the three clamcleats - lower one for outhaul, upper two for 1st and 2nd reef respectively (no line in place for 2nd reef in pics). The cleats are positioned for easy working from forward part of cockpit, and also so the excess line when reefed hangs into the companionway rather than being underfoot in the cockpit.
Another shows most of the boom from aft end to clamcleats, so you can see the whole setup. Cheek block forward of the other two is for 2nd reef line.
And one pic shows the other (port) side of the boom, with little cheek block for topping lift and eye strap for termination of 1st reef line.
If you just tie the line to the clew reefing grommet and then down through the block you don't need that of course. It's only needed for running the line 2:1 from port side thru grommet to block on starboard side.
The way my outhaul is rigged - sliding loop around boom then thru grommet to outhaul block - is a nifty trick that functions as both outhaul and clew strap at the same time and is mostly self-adjusting (a clew strap is otherwise as separate line or webbing to hold the clew close to the boom).
The Swiss cheese effect here and there on my boom is merely a result of moving and/or replacing most all the hardware from the previously installed setup.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <P7050004.jpeg> <P7050001.jpeg> <P7050005.jpeg> <P7050002.jpeg> <P7050003.jpeg>
Tyler. Main halyard uses a cleat (not clamcleat) mounted on the mast. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, 2:10 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Hi Dave,
Are you talking about using a cam cleat for the main halyard? If so, where/how do you mount it?
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Gerry Lempicki" <ka1stz@yahoo.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2019 9:56:28 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 questions round 2 - reefing setups
Using Clamcleats makes for faster reefing. Why? You figure how far down to lower the main and no need to raise the sail to tighten the luff. With a horn you need to raise the main again and at this point the boat has likely fallen offf and filled the sail making it very hard to tighten the luff.
I recommend the cunningham leading to the cockpit for easy adjustment.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 5:54 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
John, that is very helpful! I really appreciate you laying that out to take photos. Now it is all very clear to me. We spent most of today on the boat with some new friends, and we got some great instruction/coaching from them. Tomorrow doesn't look like good sailing wx so we may take a ride for some hardware to complete all of this. Thanks so much!
-Gerry
On Jul 5, 2019, at 4:56 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 7/5/19 3:59 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
John, you mentioned cheek blocks and clamcleats on starboard side of your boom for clew reefing; are there some form of eye straps used as anchor points on the port side?
Yep, exactly. Just ordinary eye straps, something like the small one of these two is fine: https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rl-311-parent.htm
And can you describe how your outhaul is configured? At the rear of my boom is a what I think is called a terminal eye strap. For now I put a D shackle through it, ran the outhaul line through it, and then ran it forward to the port side clamcleat shown in my earlier photo (you mentioned it was possibly for a topping lift). It seems to work fine temporarily, but should I have some block in use there?
That will get you sailing, but better to have it on starboard side (so you can use the topping lift cleat for topping lift, and, because generally we want reefing controls on starboard side, because generally we reef when hove to on starboard tack, because then technically your boat has certain rights of way that you wouldn't have on port tack, just in case...)
See attached pics of my boom...not necessarily in order of description below...
One shows detail of outhaul - a very small block attached with small shackle to the strap with eye at aft end of boom like yours (sometimes called a 'spin strap', no idea why). Outhaul goes through that block, down across one side of a cheek block to redirect it, and then forward to a clamcleat with fairlead.
One pic shows aft end with outhaul, cheek blocks for outhaul and first reef.
Another shows the three clamcleats - lower one for outhaul, upper two for 1st and 2nd reef respectively (no line in place for 2nd reef in pics). The cleats are positioned for easy working from forward part of cockpit, and also so the excess line when reefed hangs into the companionway rather than being underfoot in the cockpit.
Another shows most of the boom from aft end to clamcleats, so you can see the whole setup. Cheek block forward of the other two is for 2nd reef line.
And one pic shows the other (port) side of the boom, with little cheek block for topping lift and eye strap for termination of 1st reef line.
If you just tie the line to the clew reefing grommet and then down through the block you don't need that of course. It's only needed for running the line 2:1 from port side thru grommet to block on starboard side.
The way my outhaul is rigged - sliding loop around boom then thru grommet to outhaul block - is a nifty trick that functions as both outhaul and clew strap at the same time and is mostly self-adjusting (a clew strap is otherwise as separate line or webbing to hold the clew close to the boom).
The Swiss cheese effect here and there on my boom is merely a result of moving and/or replacing most all the hardware from the previously installed setup.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <P7050004.jpeg> <P7050001.jpeg> <P7050005.jpeg> <P7050002.jpeg> <P7050003.jpeg>
My main halyard runs to cockpit via turning block on mast base, cheek block on cabin top, to Ronstan cam cleat at rear of cabin roof. This is for convenience single-handing, I can drop the main from the same place I manage almost everything else, front of cockpit. I know at least a few others here have similar for main and/or jib halyards as I've seen pix of them... cheers, John On 7/6/19 2:41 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Tyler.
Main halyard uses a cleat (not clamcleat) mounted on the mast.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, 2:10 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Hi Dave,
Are you talking about using a cam cleat for the main halyard? If so, where/how do you mount it?
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Gerry Lempicki" <ka1stz@yahoo.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2019 9:56:28 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 questions round 2 - reefing setups
Using Clamcleats makes for faster reefing. Why? You figure how far down to lower the main and no need to raise the sail to tighten the luff. With a horn you need to raise the main again and at this point the boat has likely fallen offf and filled the sail making it very hard to tighten the luff.
I recommend the cunningham leading to the cockpit for easy adjustment.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 5:54 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
John, that is very helpful! I really appreciate you laying that out to take photos. Now it is all very clear to me. We spent most of today on the boat with some new friends, and we got some great instruction/coaching from them. Tomorrow doesn't look like good sailing wx so we may take a ride for some hardware to complete all of this. Thanks so much!
-Gerry
On Jul 5, 2019, at 4:56 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 7/5/19 3:59 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
John, you mentioned cheek blocks and clamcleats on starboard side of your boom for clew reefing; are there some form of eye straps used as anchor points on the port side?
Yep, exactly. Just ordinary eye straps, something like the small one of these two is fine: https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rl-311-parent.htm
And can you describe how your outhaul is configured? At the rear of my boom is a what I think is called a terminal eye strap. For now I put a D shackle through it, ran the outhaul line through it, and then ran it forward to the port side clamcleat shown in my earlier photo (you mentioned it was possibly for a topping lift). It seems to work fine temporarily, but should I have some block in use there?
That will get you sailing, but better to have it on starboard side (so you can use the topping lift cleat for topping lift, and, because generally we want reefing controls on starboard side, because generally we reef when hove to on starboard tack, because then technically your boat has certain rights of way that you wouldn't have on port tack, just in case...)
See attached pics of my boom...not necessarily in order of description below...
One shows detail of outhaul - a very small block attached with small shackle to the strap with eye at aft end of boom like yours (sometimes called a 'spin strap', no idea why). Outhaul goes through that block, down across one side of a cheek block to redirect it, and then forward to a clamcleat with fairlead.
One pic shows aft end with outhaul, cheek blocks for outhaul and first reef.
Another shows the three clamcleats - lower one for outhaul, upper two for 1st and 2nd reef respectively (no line in place for 2nd reef in pics). The cleats are positioned for easy working from forward part of cockpit, and also so the excess line when reefed hangs into the companionway rather than being underfoot in the cockpit.
Another shows most of the boom from aft end to clamcleats, so you can see the whole setup. Cheek block forward of the other two is for 2nd reef line.
And one pic shows the other (port) side of the boom, with little cheek block for topping lift and eye strap for termination of 1st reef line.
If you just tie the line to the clew reefing grommet and then down through the block you don't need that of course. It's only needed for running the line 2:1 from port side thru grommet to block on starboard side.
The way my outhaul is rigged - sliding loop around boom then thru grommet to outhaul block - is a nifty trick that functions as both outhaul and clew strap at the same time and is mostly self-adjusting (a clew strap is otherwise as separate line or webbing to hold the clew close to the boom).
The Swiss cheese effect here and there on my boom is merely a result of moving and/or replacing most all the hardware from the previously installed setup.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <P7050004.jpeg> <P7050001.jpeg> <P7050005.jpeg> <P7050002.jpeg> <P7050003.jpeg>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (4)
-
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Dave Scobie -
Gerry Lempicki -
John Schinnerer