Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 steel ballast replacement.
Hey Thomas Sean here... Thanks to all that responded for me indicating I was a bit tied up last week.....LOL.....I WAS!!! Things are getting back to normal now. Just replaced some steel ballast in my M17 flushdeck Sneakers this fall.....and of course I did a total replacement on "Dauntless" my M23 quite a few years back. The job is a grunt and fairly expensive. Unless you can get scrap lead...figure $1/lb for reclaimed lead shot. I completely encapsulated the shot in resin the way I do it so even if there ever is another fracture in the keel, there is nowhere for water to go. Pouring the resin in from the top leads to large voids of loose shot and open space for water should there be a leak....or at least that's what I found in both instances that I have repaired. On top of the lead purchase price...there is the polyester resin to encapsulate the lead in....and I used epoxy resin, cloth, and biaxial tape to close up the windows I had to create in the side of the keel to get the old resin out. It is not a cheap repair. Like someone referred to...take the time to find out how the water got in and fix it....and I would propose leaving the empty keel cavity open long enough to allow the laminate to dry out so as not to have future problems with blisters. This could take some time depending on how wet she is and what the Relative Humidity is in your area. Ours is often single digit so that helped me a lot. My advice would be this. Both boats I have done this to are rare versions of Monty's. There were only 20 23's built and less than half of that number of M17 flushdecks. That made them worthwhile to me to go through this process. If either was not a rare boat ...or a boat I was not attached to....I don't know that the process would have been worth it. It is a lot of work to do it correctly and definitely a financial investment into the boat that you are not too likely to recoup in resale price. I am back online....but back to work also. Feel free to email me if there is anything I can help with and good luck! S
Sean, Read your excellent account of the Dauntless repair. The clever way you surmounted all the problems answered all my questions. Thanks for doing such a thorough job. I have recently purchased my second M17 (first one 24 years ago) and the centerboard seems to raise and lower easily. I towed it home to Rockport, Tx. from Stockton, Mo. The boat has some Spanish moss growing on it, a real diamond in the rough. Am looking forward to bring it back to life. Regards, Tom Buzzi On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:44 PM, <Nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Hey Thomas
Sean here...
Thanks to all that responded for me indicating I was a bit tied up last week.....LOL.....I WAS!!!
Things are getting back to normal now. Just replaced some steel ballast in my M17 flushdeck Sneakers this fall.....and of course I did a total replacement on "Dauntless" my M23 quite a few years back. The job is a grunt and fairly expensive. Unless you can get scrap lead...figure $1/lb for reclaimed lead shot. I completely encapsulated the shot in resin the way I do it so even if there ever is another fracture in the keel, there is nowhere for water to go. Pouring the resin in from the top leads to large voids of loose shot and open space for water should there be a leak....or at least that's what I found in both instances that I have repaired. On top of the lead purchase price...there is the polyester resin to encapsulate the lead in....and I used epoxy resin, cloth, and biaxial tape to close up the windows I had to create in the side of the keel to get the old resin out. It is not a cheap repair.
Like someone referred to...take the time to find out how the water got in and fix it....and I would propose leaving the empty keel cavity open long enough to allow the laminate to dry out so as not to have future problems with blisters. This could take some time depending on how wet she is and what the Relative Humidity is in your area. Ours is often single digit so that helped me a lot.
My advice would be this. Both boats I have done this to are rare versions of Monty's. There were only 20 23's built and less than half of that number of M17 flushdecks. That made them worthwhile to me to go through this process. If either was not a rare boat ...or a boat I was not attached to....I don't know that the process would have been worth it. It is a lot of work to do it correctly and definitely a financial investment into the boat that you are not too likely to recoup in resale price.
I am back online....but back to work also. Feel free to email me if there is anything I can help with and good luck!
S
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project. Thanks in advance! Robbin M-23 and M-10
Linda, I found a book about sailboat maintenance by the author this guy refers to. It has a good check list for before and after sailing season, including some items I had not thought of. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: M_Boats: removing a hole in the hull and deck to joint
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6130 - Release Date: 02/25/13
the M23's hull is solid fiberglass, no core. there is only core in the horizontal portions of the deck, and maybe in the transom where the motor mount and rudder are attached. I don't know the average thickness. from your description the thru-hull for the potti is 'straight over' from the head and not legal. removing an unused thru-hull and making a new fiberglass repair is the best practice. yes the book you want is 'Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual'. excellent resource with wonderful illustrations. for the hull-to-deck joint here is some discussion about doing the repair - http://m17-375.webs.com/hulldeckjoint.htm this is about older M17s, but very very similar to the M23's. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Mon, 2/25/13, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Linda, I found a book about sailboat maintenance by the author this guy refers to. It has a good check list for before and after sailing season, including some items I had not thought of. Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:06 PM
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
On 25-Feb-13 7:00 PM, W David Scobie wrote: Another good source of information on doing fiberglass repairs is the WEST Manual (free) just go to WEST Fiberglass Co. and ask for it. Connie
the M23's hull is solid fiberglass, no core. there is only core in the horizontal portions of the deck, and maybe in the transom where the motor mount and rudder are attached. I don't know the average thickness.
from your description the thru-hull for the potti is 'straight over' from the head and not legal. removing an unused thru-hull and making a new fiberglass repair is the best practice.
yes the book you want is 'Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual'. excellent resource with wonderful illustrations.
for the hull-to-deck joint here is some discussion about doing the repair -
http://m17-375.webs.com/hulldeckjoint.htm
this is about older M17s, but very very similar to the M23's.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 2/25/13, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Linda, I found a book about sailboat maintenance by the author this guy refers to. It has a good check list for before and after sailing season, including some items I had not thought of. Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:06 PM
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
Thanks Dave, I appreciate the information. It sure looks like it is straight over to me, without stopping at the holding tank or passing go. I did not know if it were legal but I did know I cannot use it in the Chesapeake Bay. Nor do I want to repair the head system and maintain the head and tank. So yes, in my mind it is a ticking time bomb waiting to sink the boat unless I do some work on deconstructing and reconstructing the valve and thru hull. And since I never intend to use it I figured I may as well glass it up. Thanks for the reference on the M-17! All the best! Robbin On 2/25/2013 7:00 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M23's hull is solid fiberglass, no core. there is only core in the horizontal portions of the deck, and maybe in the transom where the motor mount and rudder are attached. I don't know the average thickness.
from your description the thru-hull for the potti is 'straight over' from the head and not legal. removing an unused thru-hull and making a new fiberglass repair is the best practice.
yes the book you want is 'Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual'. excellent resource with wonderful illustrations.
for the hull-to-deck joint here is some discussion about doing the repair -
http://m17-375.webs.com/hulldeckjoint.htm
this is about older M17s, but very very similar to the M23's.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 2/25/13, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Linda, I found a book about sailboat maintenance by the author this guy refers to. It has a good check list for before and after sailing season, including some items I had not thought of. Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:06 PM
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
Oh yeah, here in Texas if you have a waste valve it has to meet all the rules. I guess they figure if you have it sooner or later you will use it rather than mess with pumpouts. Anybody got any ideas about replacing gelcoat on the deck that has worn down to the glass beneath? On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Thanks Dave, I appreciate the information. It sure looks like it is straight over to me, without stopping at the holding tank or passing go. I did not know if it were legal but I did know I cannot use it in the Chesapeake Bay. Nor do I want to repair the head system and maintain the head and tank. So yes, in my mind it is a ticking time bomb waiting to sink the boat unless I do some work on deconstructing and reconstructing the valve and thru hull. And since I never intend to use it I figured I may as well glass it up.
Thanks for the reference on the M-17!
All the best! Robbin
On 2/25/2013 7:00 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M23's hull is solid fiberglass, no core. there is only core in the horizontal portions of the deck, and maybe in the transom where the motor mount and rudder are attached. I don't know the average thickness.
from your description the thru-hull for the potti is 'straight over' from the head and not legal. removing an unused thru-hull and making a new fiberglass repair is the best practice.
yes the book you want is 'Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual'. excellent resource with wonderful illustrations.
for the hull-to-deck joint here is some discussion about doing the repair -
http://m17-375.webs.com/**hulldeckjoint.htm<http://m17-375.webs.com/hulldeckjoint.htm>
this is about older M17s, but very very similar to the M23's.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 2/25/13, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Linda, I found a book about sailboat maintenance by the author this guy refers to. It has a good check list for before and after sailing season, including some items I had not thought of. Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:06 PM
Hi M-boaters,
I attended a great seminar that other day about proper
through hulls
that convinced me I should remove the through hull on
my M-23 that is
connected to the holding tank. I never plan on
using this as I have a
porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved
and am not
planning on reconstituting the head system so this is
just a hole in the
hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any
advice on how to remove the
current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through
hull and then
patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness
of the hull is on the
lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March
and April as
things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good
reference or hints on
this repair I would appreciate any info that you can
pass along. I have
had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also
what Don Casey
recommends but I like to get all the information I can
before starting a
big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
for worn through gelcoat you can consider one of the topside polyurethane paints made by Interlux and Pettit (there are also other manufactures). if the worn area is non-skid you need to add a 'gripping' agent such as Interlux's 'no skid compound' or Pettit's '9900 skidless compound'. you may be able to 'spot fix' if you can find a good color match ... this is an esthetic issue. redoing the entire deck and non-skid is a big task as you need to remove all the deck hardware. this will look better than a 'spot fix'. i can't remember, as i don't have the mags at the shop, but i believe last month there was an article in PRACTICAL SAILOR or GOOD OLD BOAT about refinishing a boat's deck ... i'll need to look when i get home. if the location is very very very small, like less then a square inch, you can consider just applying gelcoat. color match can be difficult do to the age of the boat. after lots of wet sanding with progressively finer sandpaper you can get close to the gloss match of the current deck. get the worn area covered soon as UV will eat up the glass/resin that is not protected by gelcoat. :: Dave Scobie --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anybody got any ideas about replacing gelcoat on the deck that has worn down to the glass beneath?
Sounds like deck painting is the way to go. Any thoughts about fixing up gelcoat spider cracking before the painting? Would filling the cracks with a two part poly putty work? On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
for worn through gelcoat you can consider one of the topside polyurethane paints made by Interlux and Pettit (there are also other manufactures). if the worn area is non-skid you need to add a 'gripping' agent such as Interlux's 'no skid compound' or Pettit's '9900 skidless compound'.
you may be able to 'spot fix' if you can find a good color match ... this is an esthetic issue.
redoing the entire deck and non-skid is a big task as you need to remove all the deck hardware. this will look better than a 'spot fix'.
i can't remember, as i don't have the mags at the shop, but i believe last month there was an article in PRACTICAL SAILOR or GOOD OLD BOAT about refinishing a boat's deck ... i'll need to look when i get home.
if the location is very very very small, like less then a square inch, you can consider just applying gelcoat. color match can be difficult do to the age of the boat. after lots of wet sanding with progressively finer sandpaper you can get close to the gloss match of the current deck.
get the worn area covered soon as UV will eat up the glass/resin that is not protected by gelcoat.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anybody got any ideas about replacing gelcoat on the deck that has worn down to the glass beneath?
Thomas, Ask for help from Stan.......aka "Paint Boy". I believe he works for Interlux? He'll have all the answers. Are you out there Stan? Skip -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 26, 2013 2:09 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: worn through deck gelcoat Sounds like deck painting is the way to go. Any thoughts about fixing up elcoat spider cracking before the painting? Would filling the cracks with two part poly putty work? On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
for worn through gelcoat you can consider one of the topside polyurethane paints made by Interlux and Pettit (there are also other manufactures). if the worn area is non-skid you need to add a 'gripping' agent such as Interlux's 'no skid compound' or Pettit's '9900 skidless compound'.
you may be able to 'spot fix' if you can find a good color match ... this is an esthetic issue. redoing the entire deck and non-skid is a big task as you need to remove all the deck hardware. this will look better than a 'spot fix'. i can't remember, as i don't have the mags at the shop, but i believe last month there was an article in PRACTICAL SAILOR or GOOD OLD BOAT about refinishing a boat's deck ... i'll need to look when i get home. if the location is very very very small, like less then a square inch, you can consider just applying gelcoat. color match can be difficult do to the age of the boat. after lots of wet sanding with progressively finer sandpaper you can get close to the gloss match of the current deck. get the worn area covered soon as UV will eat up the glass/resin that is not protected by gelcoat. :: Dave Scobie --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anybody got any ideas about replacing gelcoat on the deck that has worn down to the glass beneath?
Sounds like a good place to start, Skip. thanks. Tom B On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:13 PM, <wcampion@aol.com> wrote:
Thomas,
Ask for help from Stan.......aka "Paint Boy". I believe he works for Interlux? He'll have all the answers.
Are you out there Stan?
Skip
-----Original Message----- From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 26, 2013 2:09 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: worn through deck gelcoat
Sounds like deck painting is the way to go. Any thoughts about fixing up elcoat spider cracking before the painting? Would filling the cracks with two part poly putty work? On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
for worn through gelcoat you can consider one of the topside polyurethane paints made by Interlux and Pettit (there are also other manufactures). if the worn area is non-skid you need to add a 'gripping' agent such as Interlux's 'no skid compound' or Pettit's '9900 skidless compound'.
you may be able to 'spot fix' if you can find a good color match ... this is an esthetic issue.
redoing the entire deck and non-skid is a big task as you need to remove all the deck hardware. this will look better than a 'spot fix'.
i can't remember, as i don't have the mags at the shop, but i believe last month there was an article in PRACTICAL SAILOR or GOOD OLD BOAT about refinishing a boat's deck ... i'll need to look when i get home.
if the location is very very very small, like less then a square inch, you can consider just applying gelcoat. color match can be difficult do to the age of the boat. after lots of wet sanding with progressively finer sandpaper you can get close to the gloss match of the current deck.
get the worn area covered soon as UV will eat up the glass/resin that is not protected by gelcoat.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anybody got any ideas about replacing gelcoat on the deck that has worn down to the glass beneath?
both Interlux and Pettit have primers designed to fill minor, very fine, cosmetic cracks before putting on the final topside paint. larger cracks should be corrected using something like thickened epoxy, finish sanded, and then primed (a long discussion could be had on how to correct cracks ... Don covers the topic well in his book). look at Pettit 6149 EZ Prime and Interlux Pre-Kote. for a good finish you will need to do LOTS of sanding in the prep stage. you will not have any fingerprints left ... lol ;-) in painting a 'good old boat' the first coat will be 'the one you mess up' and need to sand out the drips and runs. the second coat is where you almost get it right. the third is when you know what you are doing ;-) Interlux has a good support forum and you can call their support line (see their site for links to both). remember, if you are taking off all the deck hardware consider filling and re-drilling all the fastener holes 'while you are at it'. :: Dave Scobie --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like deck painting is the way to go. Any thoughts about fixing up gelcoat spider cracking before the painting? Would filling the cracks with a two part poly putty work?
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
for worn through gelcoat you can consider one of the topside polyurethane paints made by Interlux and Pettit (there are also other manufactures). if the worn area is non-skid you need to add a 'gripping' agent such as Interlux's 'no skid compound' or Pettit's '9900 skidless compound'.
you may be able to 'spot fix' if you can find a good color match ... this is an esthetic issue.
redoing the entire deck and non-skid is a big task as you need to remove all the deck hardware. this will look better than a 'spot fix'.
i can't remember, as i don't have the mags at the shop, but i believe last month there was an article in PRACTICAL SAILOR or GOOD OLD BOAT about refinishing a boat's deck ... i'll need to look when i get home.
if the location is very very very small, like less then a square inch, you can consider just applying gelcoat. color match can be difficult do to the age of the boat. after lots of wet sanding with progressively finer sandpaper you can get close to the gloss match of the current deck.
get the worn area covered soon as UV will eat up the glass/resin that is not protected by gelcoat.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anybody got any ideas about replacing gelcoat on
the deck
that has worn down to the glass beneath?
Dave, By "Lots of sanding in the prep stage" what did you mean? What am I sanding to accomplish? Just making everything smooth so I would have to use progressively finer sandpaper and go over the same areas several times? thanks for the info. Tom B. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:26 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
both Interlux and Pettit have primers designed to fill minor, very fine, cosmetic cracks before putting on the final topside paint. larger cracks should be corrected using something like thickened epoxy, finish sanded, and then primed (a long discussion could be had on how to correct cracks ... Don covers the topic well in his book).
look at Pettit 6149 EZ Prime and Interlux Pre-Kote.
for a good finish you will need to do LOTS of sanding in the prep stage. you will not have any fingerprints left ... lol ;-)
in painting a 'good old boat' the first coat will be 'the one you mess up' and need to sand out the drips and runs. the second coat is where you almost get it right. the third is when you know what you are doing ;-)
Interlux has a good support forum and you can call their support line (see their site for links to both).
remember, if you are taking off all the deck hardware consider filling and re-drilling all the fastener holes 'while you are at it'.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like deck painting is the way to go. Any thoughts about fixing up gelcoat spider cracking before the painting? Would filling the cracks with a two part poly putty work?
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
for worn through gelcoat you can consider one of the topside polyurethane paints made by Interlux and Pettit (there are also other manufactures). if the worn area is non-skid you need to add a 'gripping' agent such as Interlux's 'no skid compound' or Pettit's '9900 skidless compound'.
you may be able to 'spot fix' if you can find a good color match ... this is an esthetic issue.
redoing the entire deck and non-skid is a big task as you need to remove all the deck hardware. this will look better than a 'spot fix'.
i can't remember, as i don't have the mags at the shop, but i believe last month there was an article in PRACTICAL SAILOR or GOOD OLD BOAT about refinishing a boat's deck ... i'll need to look when i get home.
if the location is very very very small, like less then a square inch, you can consider just applying gelcoat. color match can be difficult do to the age of the boat. after lots of wet sanding with progressively finer sandpaper you can get close to the gloss match of the current deck.
get the worn area covered soon as UV will eat up the glass/resin that is not protected by gelcoat.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anybody got any ideas about replacing gelcoat on
the deck
that has worn down to the glass beneath?
Tom: first you are getting the old gelcoat/fiberglass/resin 'roughed up' so the paint makes a mechanical bond. the finish sanding grit will be defined by the product prep information (see the paint's product data sheet). second you are making the area 'smooth' and taking out the imperfections. all scuffs, 'wobbles' and warps will STAND OUT after painting because the new finish will be nice and shiny. :: Dave Scobie --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, By "Lots of sanding in the prep stage" what did you mean? What am I sanding to accomplish? Just making everything smooth so I would have to use progressively finer sandpaper and go over the same areas several times? thanks for the info. Tom B.
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:26 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
both Interlux and Pettit have primers designed to fill minor, very fine, cosmetic cracks before putting on the final topside paint. larger cracks should be corrected using something like thickened epoxy, finish sanded, and then primed (a long discussion could be had on how to correct cracks ... Don covers the topic well in his book).
look at Pettit 6149 EZ Prime and Interlux Pre-Kote.
for a good finish you will need to do LOTS of sanding in the prep stage. you will not have any fingerprints left ... lol ;-)
in painting a 'good old boat' the first coat will be 'the one you mess up' and need to sand out the drips and runs. the second coat is where you almost get it right. the third is when you know what you are doing ;-)
Interlux has a good support forum and you can call their support line (see their site for links to both).
remember, if you are taking off all the deck hardware consider filling and re-drilling all the fastener holes 'while you are at it'.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like deck painting is the way to go. Any thoughts about fixing up gelcoat spider cracking before the painting? Would filling the cracks with a two part poly putty work?
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
for worn through gelcoat you can consider one of the topside polyurethane paints made by Interlux and Pettit (there are also other manufactures). if the worn area is non-skid you need to add a 'gripping' agent such as Interlux's 'no skid compound' or Pettit's '9900 skidless compound'.
you may be able to 'spot fix' if you can find a good color match ... this is an esthetic issue.
redoing the entire deck and non-skid is a big task as you need to remove all the deck hardware. this will look better than a 'spot fix'.
i can't remember, as i don't have the mags at the shop, but i believe last month there was an article in PRACTICAL SAILOR or GOOD OLD BOAT about refinishing a boat's deck ... i'll need to look when i get home.
if the location is very very very small, like less then a square inch, you can consider just applying gelcoat. color match can be difficult do to the age of the boat. after lots of wet sanding with progressively finer sandpaper you can get close to the gloss match of the current deck.
get the worn area covered soon as UV will eat up the glass/resin that is not protected by gelcoat.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Anybody got any ideas about replacing
gelcoat on the deck
that has worn down to the glass beneath?
Are you referring to the book on sailboat maintenance written by Don Casey? Good book with lots of good ideas on maintaining and fixing our sailboats. Steve M 15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: M_Boats: removing a hole in the hull and deck to joint
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6130 - Release Date: 02/25/13
Hi Steve, I have Don's Good Old Boat book and the one that details some of the hull to deck joint is Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair. Robbin On 2/25/2013 6:01 PM, stevetrapp wrote:
Are you referring to the book on sailboat maintenance written by Don Casey? Good book with lots of good ideas on maintaining and fixing our sailboats. Steve M 15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: M_Boats: removing a hole in the hull and deck to joint
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6130 - Release Date: 02/25/13
Robbin, If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard. Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
Hi Thomas, I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23 Thanks Robbin On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin, If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard.
Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters, I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them. Regards, Tom On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas, I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23>
Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin, If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard.
Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters,
I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down. Robbin On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas, I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23>
Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin, If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard.
Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters,
I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
Hi Robbin I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, etc. In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. Regards, Tom On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas,
I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23> <htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23>
Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin,
If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard.
Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters,
I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
Hi Tom, my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing surgery to my Mahogany rudder. Robbin On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, etc. In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. Regards, Tom
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas,
I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23> <htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23> Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin,
If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard.
Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters,
I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
On 26-Feb-13 12:42 PM, Robbin Roddewig wrote: Hi Robbin, I too married a derelict CP16 in haste in Clearwater, FL, and then repented at leisure. The rudder on the CP16 was just a flat piece of aluminum sheet material, about 3/8th of an inch thick, as I recall. When I recognized that the CP16 was a miserable sailor - it refused to even think of going to windward - I quickly recognized that I had bought a bathtub toy, not a sail boat; dumped the CP16 as quickly as I could, and looked around for a better solution. What I found was the M15, and after lots of chit-chat with the M-Listers, who answered all my questions in great detail, and with lots of enthusiasm, I bought my M15, #400 sight-unseen, in Panama City, FL. After picking it up and towing it back to Connecticut,my first detailed inspection at home delighted me with what I had bought, and it only got better and better the longer we owned it. For just the Admirable and myself, the M15 was ideal, and we did a lot of trailering; sailing; and exploring in it. Jerry designed and built a masterpiece. I only wish we were still able to sail our "LEPPO" , but old age finally forced us to give up our wonderful sport of sailing. Ciao, Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Hi Tom, my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing surgery to my Mahogany rudder.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, etc. In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. Regards, Tom
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas,
I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23>
<htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23>
Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin,
If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard.
Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters,
> I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through > hulls > that > convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is > connected > to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta > potti, > dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on > reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the > hull for > water > to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current > plastic > (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the > hole? I > am > not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, > cored > or > what not. > I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as > things > warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on > this > repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I > have had > Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey > recommends but I like to get all the information I can before > starting > a > big project. > > Thanks in advance! > > Robbin > M-23 and M-10 > > > >
Old age? Your's or your M-15? I know that my M-15 # 335 was built in 1985, sold new to me in 1986, so I figure your # 400 must have been built about 1987 or 88. If you do not know, look at the hull number, the year of manufacture is included in that number. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:08 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: removing a hole in the hull and deck to joint
On 26-Feb-13 12:42 PM, Robbin Roddewig wrote:
Hi Robbin,
I too married a derelict CP16 in haste in Clearwater, FL, and then repented at leisure.
The rudder on the CP16 was just a flat piece of aluminum sheet material, about 3/8th of an inch thick, as I recall.
When I recognized that the CP16 was a miserable sailor - it refused to even think of going to windward - I quickly recognized that I had bought a bathtub toy, not a sail boat; dumped the CP16 as quickly as I could, and looked around for a better solution.
What I found was the M15, and after lots of chit-chat with the M-Listers, who answered all my questions in great detail, and with lots of enthusiasm, I bought my M15, #400 sight-unseen, in Panama City, FL.
After picking it up and towing it back to Connecticut,my first detailed inspection at home delighted me with what I had bought, and it only got better and better the longer we owned it.
For just the Admirable and myself, the M15 was ideal, and we did a lot of trailering; sailing; and exploring in it.
Jerry designed and built a masterpiece.
I only wish we were still able to sail our "LEPPO" , but old age finally forced us to give up our wonderful sport of sailing.
Ciao,
Connie
ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Hi Tom, my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing surgery to my Mahogany rudder.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, etc. In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. Regards, Tom
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas,
I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23>
<htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23>
Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin, > If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is > against > the > day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is > wired > shut. > I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. > I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, > would you > post it here? > Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road > miles but > it > is finally in my yard. > > Good luck on your repairs, > Tom Buzzi > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < > robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote: > > Hi M-boaters, > >> I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through >> hulls >> that >> convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is >> connected >> to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta >> potti, >> dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on >> reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the >> hull for >> water >> to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current >> plastic >> (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the >> hole? I >> am >> not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, >> cored >> or >> what not. >> I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as >> things >> warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on >> this >> repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I >> have had >> Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey >> recommends but I like to get all the information I can before >> starting >> a >> big project. >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> Robbin >> M-23 and M-10 >> >> >> >>
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6134 - Release Date: 02/26/13
On 26-Feb-13 1:41 PM, stevetrapp wrote: Hi Steve, My age, not that of the M15. I had to give up sailing when I was 85. Our M15 #400 was bought by a young couple,- experienced sailors- and is now happily sailing up in the Lake Champlain area. Connie
Old age? Your's or your M-15? I know that my M-15 # 335 was built in 1985, sold new to me in 1986, so I figure your # 400 must have been built about 1987 or 88. If you do not know, look at the hull number, the year of manufacture is included in that number. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:08 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: removing a hole in the hull and deck to joint
On 26-Feb-13 12:42 PM, Robbin Roddewig wrote:
Hi Robbin,
I too married a derelict CP16 in haste in Clearwater, FL, and then repented at leisure.
The rudder on the CP16 was just a flat piece of aluminum sheet material, about 3/8th of an inch thick, as I recall.
When I recognized that the CP16 was a miserable sailor - it refused to even think of going to windward - I quickly recognized that I had bought a bathtub toy, not a sail boat; dumped the CP16 as quickly as I could, and looked around for a better solution.
What I found was the M15, and after lots of chit-chat with the M-Listers, who answered all my questions in great detail, and with lots of enthusiasm, I bought my M15, #400 sight-unseen, in Panama City, FL.
After picking it up and towing it back to Connecticut,my first detailed inspection at home delighted me with what I had bought, and it only got better and better the longer we owned it.
For just the Admirable and myself, the M15 was ideal, and we did a lot of trailering; sailing; and exploring in it.
Jerry designed and built a masterpiece.
I only wish we were still able to sail our "LEPPO" , but old age finally forced us to give up our wonderful sport of sailing.
Ciao,
Connie
ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Hi Tom, my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing surgery to my Mahogany rudder.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, etc. In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. Regards, Tom
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas, > I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the > valve looks > like a gate valve. > I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to > post them > to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at > https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23> > > <htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23> > > Thanks > Robbin > > On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > > Robbin, >> If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is >> against >> the >> day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is >> wired >> shut. >> I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. >> I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, >> would you >> post it here? >> Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road >> miles but >> it >> is finally in my yard. >> >> Good luck on your repairs, >> Tom Buzzi >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < >> robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote: >> >> Hi M-boaters, >> >>> I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through >>> hulls >>> that >>> convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is >>> connected >>> to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta >>> potti, >>> dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on >>> reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the >>> hull for >>> water >>> to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current >>> plastic >>> (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the >>> hole? I >>> am >>> not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, >>> cored >>> or >>> what not. >>> I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as >>> things >>> warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on >>> this >>> repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I >>> have had >>> Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey >>> recommends but I like to get all the information I can before >>> starting >>> a >>> big project. >>> >>> Thanks in advance! >>> >>> Robbin >>> M-23 and M-10 >>> >>> >>> >>>
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6134 - Release Date: 02/26/13
Connie, Good, sailed until you were 85, gives me a few more years of sailing to look forward to, and I am confident my M-15 will last as long as I wlll. Steve M 15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 2:44 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Old age?
On 26-Feb-13 1:41 PM, stevetrapp wrote:
Hi Steve,
My age, not that of the M15.
I had to give up sailing when I was 85.
Our M15 #400 was bought by a young couple,- experienced sailors- and is now happily sailing up in the Lake Champlain area.
Connie
Old age? Your's or your M-15? I know that my M-15 # 335 was built in 1985, sold new to me in 1986, so I figure your # 400 must have been built about 1987 or 88. If you do not know, look at the hull number, the year of manufacture is included in that number. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:08 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: removing a hole in the hull and deck to joint
On 26-Feb-13 12:42 PM, Robbin Roddewig wrote:
Hi Robbin,
I too married a derelict CP16 in haste in Clearwater, FL, and then repented at leisure.
The rudder on the CP16 was just a flat piece of aluminum sheet material, about 3/8th of an inch thick, as I recall.
When I recognized that the CP16 was a miserable sailor - it refused to even think of going to windward - I quickly recognized that I had bought a bathtub toy, not a sail boat; dumped the CP16 as quickly as I could, and looked around for a better solution.
What I found was the M15, and after lots of chit-chat with the M-Listers, who answered all my questions in great detail, and with lots of enthusiasm, I bought my M15, #400 sight-unseen, in Panama City, FL.
After picking it up and towing it back to Connecticut,my first detailed inspection at home delighted me with what I had bought, and it only got better and better the longer we owned it.
For just the Admirable and myself, the M15 was ideal, and we did a lot of trailering; sailing; and exploring in it.
Jerry designed and built a masterpiece.
I only wish we were still able to sail our "LEPPO" , but old age finally forced us to give up our wonderful sport of sailing.
Ciao,
Connie
ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Hi Tom, my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing surgery to my Mahogany rudder.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, etc. In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. Regards, Tom
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
> Hi Robbin, > Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it > have > any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of > protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and > this boat > looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. > Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a > business > name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was > certainly > a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a > kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement > rudder > without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers > oyster > shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a > rudder > on one of them. > > Regards, > Tom > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < > robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote: > > Hi Thomas, >> I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the >> valve looks >> like a gate valve. >> I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to >> post them >> to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at >> https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23> >> >> <htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23> >> >> Thanks >> Robbin >> >> On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >> >> Robbin, >>> If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is >>> against >>> the >>> day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is >>> wired >>> shut. >>> I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. >>> I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, >>> would you >>> post it here? >>> Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road >>> miles but >>> it >>> is finally in my yard. >>> >>> Good luck on your repairs, >>> Tom Buzzi >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < >>> robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote: >>> >>> Hi M-boaters, >>> >>>> I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through >>>> hulls >>>> that >>>> convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is >>>> connected >>>> to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta >>>> potti, >>>> dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on >>>> reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the >>>> hull for >>>> water >>>> to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current >>>> plastic >>>> (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the >>>> hole? I >>>> am >>>> not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, >>>> cored >>>> or >>>> what not. >>>> I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as >>>> things >>>> warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on >>>> this >>>> repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I >>>> have had >>>> Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey >>>> recommends but I like to get all the information I can before >>>> starting >>>> a >>>> big project. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance! >>>> >>>> Robbin >>>> M-23 and M-10 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6134 - Release Date: 02/26/13
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6134 - Release Date: 02/26/13
Thanks Connie, boy that does sound very familiar! I agree whole heartedly! Cheers Robbin On 2/26/2013 1:08 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
On 26-Feb-13 12:42 PM, Robbin Roddewig wrote:
Hi Robbin,
I too married a derelict CP16 in haste in Clearwater, FL, and then repented at leisure.
The rudder on the CP16 was just a flat piece of aluminum sheet material, about 3/8th of an inch thick, as I recall.
When I recognized that the CP16 was a miserable sailor - it refused to even think of going to windward - I quickly recognized that I had bought a bathtub toy, not a sail boat; dumped the CP16 as quickly as I could, and looked around for a better solution.
What I found was the M15, and after lots of chit-chat with the M-Listers, who answered all my questions in great detail, and with lots of enthusiasm, I bought my M15, #400 sight-unseen, in Panama City, FL.
After picking it up and towing it back to Connecticut,my first detailed inspection at home delighted me with what I had bought, and it only got better and better the longer we owned it.
For just the Admirable and myself, the M15 was ideal, and we did a lot of trailering; sailing; and exploring in it.
Jerry designed and built a masterpiece.
I only wish we were still able to sail our "LEPPO" , but old age finally forced us to give up our wonderful sport of sailing.
Ciao,
Connie
ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Hi Tom, my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing surgery to my Mahogany rudder.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, etc. In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. Regards, Tom
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas,
I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23>
<htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23>
Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin, > If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is > against > the > day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is > wired > shut. > I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. > I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, > would you > post it here? > Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road > miles but > it > is finally in my yard. > > Good luck on your repairs, > Tom Buzzi > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < > robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote: > > Hi M-boaters, > >> I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through >> hulls >> that >> convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is >> connected >> to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta >> potti, >> dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on >> reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the >> hull for >> water >> to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current >> plastic >> (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the >> hole? I >> am >> not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower >> portion, cored >> or >> what not. >> I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and >> April as >> things >> warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints >> on this >> repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I >> have had >> Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey >> recommends but I like to get all the information I can before >> starting >> a >> big project. >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> Robbin >> M-23 and M-10 >> >> >> >>
Robbin, As a matter of fact the article I read did concern a CP-16. Sounds like your experience is "the rest of the story". Thanks. I did look carefully at my stock rudder and it sure did seem to be fashioned with a foil shape already. So getting the other kick-up would be more for the damage control than better handling. Tom On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom, my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing surgery to my Mahogany rudder.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, etc. In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. Regards, Tom
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Tom,
my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin,
Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas,
I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/******110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23> <h**ttps://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23>
<htt**ps://picasaweb.google.**com/**110938325409185510143/**M23<http://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23> <https://picasaweb.google.**com/110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23>
Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin,
If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard.
Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters,
I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls > that > convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is > connected > to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta > potti, > dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on > reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for > water > to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current > plastic > (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? > I > am > not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, > cored > or > what not. > I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as > things > warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this > repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have > had > Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey > recommends but I like to get all the information I can before > starting > a > big project. > > Thanks in advance! > > Robbin > M-23 and M-10 > > > > >
Our boat came without its rudder rod also and since we live very near the boat yard, we had one of the many companies manufacture one. I measured the gudgeon holes very carefully, took a picture of where it was going, made a guess as to length (with the help of a former M17 owner) and this company created a SS rod that works perfectly and it cost only $10.00 which I thought was great. Good luck. Pam Port Townsend, Wa On Feb 26, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig wrote:
Hi Tom, my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out of the dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the dagger board up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it track while rowing etc. The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for the rod from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply outfit in any way. I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida Sailor as I had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I can see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is full down.
Robbin
On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi Robbin, Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it have any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and this boat looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a business name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was certainly a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement rudder without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers oyster shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a rudder on one of them.
Regards, Tom
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Thomas, I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the valve looks like a gate valve. I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to post them to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23
Thanks Robbin
On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Robbin, If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is against the day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is wired shut. I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, would you post it here? Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road miles but it is finally in my yard.
Good luck on your repairs, Tom Buzzi
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters,
I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through hulls that convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is connected to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta potti, dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the hull for water to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current plastic (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the hole? I am not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, cored or what not. I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as things warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on this repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I have had Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey recommends but I like to get all the information I can before starting a big project.
Thanks in advance!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
participants (8)
-
Conbert Benneck -
Nebwest2＠aol.com -
pam and dana -
Robbin Roddewig -
stevetrapp -
Thomas Buzzi -
W David Scobie -
wcampion＠aol.com