OK, as I learn more I see the benefit of improving the traveler to a ball bearing unit that is easily adjustable. Mine must be original as it has detents to pin it in place, and doesn't adjust or slide easily. I've read Jerry's post about the ball bearing traveler, and I want to make sure I understand before I buy parts or drill holes. It sounds like one end of the control line anchors to a strap eye mounted on a side of the cockpit, goes around a sheave on the car, back through a Harken H 83 block (what is this? I can't find anything with this H 83 designation. Some sort of vertical mounted block?), to the v-cleat mounted above, then leave some slack control line, and head to the other side by a v-cleat, through Harken block, around sheave on car and back to a strap eye. Is that correct? Any corrections to this or details on the block would be appreciated. I checked the photosite, but didn't see anything showing this. Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet. She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads. And I admit it's got some good force on it. In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching. Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration? A split system? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too. I want to set this up so Robin can operate helm or headsail/jib comfortably.Thanks! (again) LOLGerry
Re this part: On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: ...
Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet. She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads. And I admit it's got some good force on it. In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching. Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration? A split system? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too....
My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you posted. It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long). I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both traveler and boom. Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only needed to buy a new boom block. The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine. Description...I may have some pics, will take a look... OLD Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat. NEW Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat. This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1. Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original location. Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount. cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Here's a pic of my current setup, 4-part a.k.a 4:1, main sheet. If you view full size you ought to be able to see the detail of the traveler block with becket, and 2-sheave boom block. In my prior setup, the becket was on the boom block and boom block had only one sheave. Presumably how yours is now. It's nearly side-on so you can see the approximate boom bail placement as well. Sheet has a very slight rearward angle. Bail is a bit aft (maybe 6", I'd have to go measure) of where it was when I got the boat (but there were holes back in that vicinity so I guessed it had been moved forward for some reason). cheers, John On 7/22/19 6:12 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Re this part:
On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: ...
Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet. She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads. And I admit it's got some good force on it. In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching. Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration? A split system? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too....
My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you posted.
It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long).
I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both traveler and boom.
Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only needed to buy a new boom block.
The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine.
Description...I may have some pics, will take a look...
OLD Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat.
NEW Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat.
This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1.
Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original location. Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
...and here's a poor quality but legible pic of how it was when I got it, you can see the original 3:1, becket on boom block. Still had the crazy 4 ft. traveler rail mounted on seats across cockpit blocking companionway and best sitting location. cheers, John On 7/22/19 6:57 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Here's a pic of my current setup, 4-part a.k.a 4:1, main sheet. If you view full size you ought to be able to see the detail of the traveler block with becket, and 2-sheave boom block.
In my prior setup, the becket was on the boom block and boom block had only one sheave. Presumably how yours is now.
It's nearly side-on so you can see the approximate boom bail placement as well. Sheet has a very slight rearward angle. Bail is a bit aft (maybe 6", I'd have to go measure) of where it was when I got the boat (but there were holes back in that vicinity so I guessed it had been moved forward for some reason).
cheers, John
On 7/22/19 6:12 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Re this part:
On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: ...
Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet. She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads. And I admit it's got some good force on it. In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching. Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration? A split system? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too....
My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you posted.
It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long).
I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both traveler and boom.
Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only needed to buy a new boom block.
The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine.
Description...I may have some pics, will take a look...
OLD Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat.
NEW Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat.
This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1.
Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original location. Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John, yes that hardware/set of 3:1 blocks look very similar to mine, with exception of the high track which I assume was a previous owners modification. I see and understand how your 4:1 system is working. Thanks for posting those photos and explaining all. I was just reading up on the Harken 4:1/8:1 swivel base system. I bet that would give Robin the best options for controlling the main, but I bet it is $$$. I haven't totaled it up (and it is more to work around in the cockpit). I would think just going to 4:1 would be a big improvement for her. But I am also thinking ahead; there are other women in the club here, and it would be awesome if I could set it up so they are comfortable taking it out without one of the guys (to haul in the main). I've already seen that they are very competent sailors, but at 3:1 in a good breeze it is physically demanding.Gerry On Monday, July 22, 2019, 10:05:58 PM EDT, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote: ...and here's a poor quality but legible pic of how it was when I got it, you can see the original 3:1, becket on boom block. Still had the crazy 4 ft. traveler rail mounted on seats across cockpit blocking companionway and best sitting location. cheers, John On 7/22/19 6:57 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Here's a pic of my current setup, 4-part a.k.a 4:1, main sheet. If you view full size you ought to be able to see the detail of the traveler block with becket, and 2-sheave boom block.
In my prior setup, the becket was on the boom block and boom block had only one sheave. Presumably how yours is now.
It's nearly side-on so you can see the approximate boom bail placement as well. Sheet has a very slight rearward angle. Bail is a bit aft (maybe 6", I'd have to go measure) of where it was when I got the boat (but there were holes back in that vicinity so I guessed it had been moved forward for some reason).
cheers, John
On 7/22/19 6:12 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Re this part:
On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: ...
Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet. She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads. And I admit it's got some good force on it. In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching. Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration? A split system? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too....
My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you posted.
It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long).
I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both traveler and boom.
Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only needed to buy a new boom block.
The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine.
Description...I may have some pics, will take a look...
OLD Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat.
NEW Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat.
This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1.
Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original location. Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yeah, at least go to the 4:1. It is still a fair pull in heavy winds on a close reach (but you can head up briefly to easy the force and adjust the sheet). Also see how far back you can move the boom bail without sheet getting in way of other cockpit movement. I could probably move mine another 3"-4" back without causing too much interference. Somewhere later in production, M17s moved the traveler to mid-cockpit, just in front of tiller. That puts the leverage point several feet further back on the boom, so less strength needed, all else equal. And, there is no way I would move my traveler there. It is in the way of pretty much everything - tiller handling, tiller extension, moving fore/aft in the cockpit...been on a few boats with mid-cockpit traveler, it has always been in the way. GO is a serious racer (so I hear ;-), and he has a very interesting split sheet setup, with a fixed block in middle right behind companionway. So with his setup, apparently moving the traveler is entirely out of the picture as there is no conventional traveler. Pic attached...check out that mod! cheers, John On 7/22/19 7:31 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
John, yes that hardware/set of 3:1 blocks look very similar to mine, with exception of the high track which I assume was a previous owners modification. I see and understand how your 4:1 system is working. Thanks for posting those photos and explaining all. I was just reading up on the Harken 4:1/8:1 swivel base system. I bet that would give Robin the best options for controlling the main, but I bet it is $$$. I haven't totaled it up (and it is more to work around in the cockpit). I would think just going to 4:1 would be a big improvement for her. But I am also thinking ahead; there are other women in the club here, and it would be awesome if I could set it up so they are comfortable taking it out without one of the guys (to haul in the main). I've already seen that they are very competent sailors, but at 3:1 in a good breeze it is physically demanding.Gerry
On Monday, July 22, 2019, 10:05:58 PM EDT, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
...and here's a poor quality but legible pic of how it was when I got it, you can see the original 3:1, becket on boom block. Still had the crazy 4 ft. traveler rail mounted on seats across cockpit blocking companionway and best sitting location.
cheers, John
On 7/22/19 6:57 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Here's a pic of my current setup, 4-part a.k.a 4:1, main sheet. If you view full size you ought to be able to see the detail of the traveler block with becket, and 2-sheave boom block.
In my prior setup, the becket was on the boom block and boom block had only one sheave. Presumably how yours is now.
It's nearly side-on so you can see the approximate boom bail placement as well. Sheet has a very slight rearward angle. Bail is a bit aft (maybe 6", I'd have to go measure) of where it was when I got the boat (but there were holes back in that vicinity so I guessed it had been moved forward for some reason).
cheers, John
On 7/22/19 6:12 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Re this part:
On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: ...
Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet. She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads. And I admit it's got some good force on it. In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching. Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration? A split system? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too....
My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you posted.
It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long).
I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both traveler and boom.
Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only needed to buy a new boom block.
The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine.
Description...I may have some pics, will take a look...
OLD Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat.
NEW Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat.
This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1.
Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original location. Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Re the first part: On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
OK, as I learn more I see the benefit of improving the traveler to a ball bearing unit that is easily adjustable. Mine must be original as it has detents to pin it in place, and doesn't adjust or slide easily. I've read Jerry's post about the ball bearing traveler, and I want to make sure I understand before I buy parts or drill holes. It sounds like one end of the control line anchors to a strap eye mounted on a side of the cockpit, goes around a sheave on the car, back through a Harken H 83 block (what is this? I can't find anything with this H 83 designation. Some sort of vertical mounted block?), to the v-cleat mounted above, then leave some slack control line, and head to the other side by a v-cleat, through Harken block, around sheave on car and back to a strap eye. Is that correct? Any corrections to this or details on the block would be appreciated. I checked the photosite, but didn't see anything showing this.
Here's some (reduced size) pics TomB posted quite a while back, showing his OEM traveler on cockpit floor (like yours presumably, fixed locations with a pin to hold in a given position). And, a movable traveler he rigged up, showing more or less what you describe. A sliding 'car' (where the traveler block attaches), a piece of 'track' for it to slide on, lines through sheaves to move it each direction, one line fast to each side, and cam cleats to hold line(s) in position. In this case IIRC Tom found some old integrated sheaves/cams that are somewhat unusual, but the basic setup is the same. There are a variety of flavors of this basic design. Main difference is what track and car you use, and how the free ends of the lines are routed to where you manipulate them. Some hardware vendors sell kits or packages for this purpose. Some have a single loop of line rather than two separate lines. The uber-fancy version is called a "windward sheeting car." It has a similar setup, but it automatically releases the cam on the leeward line (by tension of sheet on a mechanical system built into the car). So you only have to pull in or let out the windward line to adjust traveler position. They are stupid expensive new, but one happened to come with my boat when I bought it, so I have that. cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
These photos are all so helpful. Each time I go back I notice more, and recognize there are many ways to do things. The key is to make it efficient and easily adjustable for me I suppose. This club we joined has some active weekend handicap racers. I think I'll upgrade both traveler and main sheet quickly. That main sheet on GO's boat is interesting for sure. -Gerry
On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:51 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Re the first part:
On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: OK, as I learn more I see the benefit of improving the traveler to a ball bearing unit that is easily adjustable. Mine must be original as it has detents to pin it in place, and doesn't adjust or slide easily. I've read Jerry's post about the ball bearing traveler, and I want to make sure I understand before I buy parts or drill holes. It sounds like one end of the control line anchors to a strap eye mounted on a side of the cockpit, goes around a sheave on the car, back through a Harken H 83 block (what is this? I can't find anything with this H 83 designation. Some sort of vertical mounted block?), to the v-cleat mounted above, then leave some slack control line, and head to the other side by a v-cleat, through Harken block, around sheave on car and back to a strap eye. Is that correct? Any corrections to this or details on the block would be appreciated. I checked the photosite, but didn't see anything showing this.
Here's some (reduced size) pics TomB posted quite a while back, showing his OEM traveler on cockpit floor (like yours presumably, fixed locations with a pin to hold in a given position).
And, a movable traveler he rigged up, showing more or less what you describe. A sliding 'car' (where the traveler block attaches), a piece of 'track' for it to slide on, lines through sheaves to move it each direction, one line fast to each side, and cam cleats to hold line(s) in position.
In this case IIRC Tom found some old integrated sheaves/cams that are somewhat unusual, but the basic setup is the same.
There are a variety of flavors of this basic design. Main difference is what track and car you use, and how the free ends of the lines are routed to where you manipulate them. Some hardware vendors sell kits or packages for this purpose. Some have a single loop of line rather than two separate lines.
The uber-fancy version is called a "windward sheeting car." It has a similar setup, but it automatically releases the cam on the leeward line (by tension of sheet on a mechanical system built into the car). So you only have to pull in or let out the windward line to adjust traveler position. They are stupid expensive new, but one happened to come with my boat when I bought it, so I have that.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <TomB-mainsheet-travelers-01-2000pxw.jpg> <TomB-mainsheet-travelers-02-2000pxw.jpg>
There are many different ways to rig a traveller. Some are more suited to our boats than others. Here are some ideas from Harken’s web site: https://www.harken.com/content.aspx?id=3914 https://www.harken.com/systems/ Components can be bought on eBay for a decent price. They obviously don’t have to be Harken brand. Also, call me a wimp but I went with 4:1 for my main sheet and 3:1 for the traveller control lines. Henry Monita M17 #310 On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 6:56 AM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
These photos are all so helpful. Each time I go back I notice more, and recognize there are many ways to do things. The key is to make it efficient and easily adjustable for me I suppose. This club we joined has some active weekend handicap racers. I think I'll upgrade both traveler and main sheet quickly.
That main sheet on GO's boat is interesting for sure. -Gerry
On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:51 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Re the first part:
On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: OK, as I learn more I see the benefit of improving the traveler to a ball bearing unit that is easily adjustable. Mine must be original as it has detents to pin it in place, and doesn't adjust or slide easily. I've read Jerry's post about the ball bearing traveler, and I want to make sure I understand before I buy parts or drill holes. It sounds like one end of the control line anchors to a strap eye mounted on a side of the cockpit, goes around a sheave on the car, back through a Harken H 83 block (what is this? I can't find anything with this H 83 designation. Some sort of vertical mounted block?), to the v-cleat mounted above, then leave some slack control line, and head to the other side by a v-cleat, through Harken block, around sheave on car and back to a strap eye. Is that correct? Any corrections to this or details on the block would be appreciated. I checked the photosite, but didn't see anything showing this.
Here's some (reduced size) pics TomB posted quite a while back, showing his OEM traveler on cockpit floor (like yours presumably, fixed locations with a pin to hold in a given position).
And, a movable traveler he rigged up, showing more or less what you describe. A sliding 'car' (where the traveler block attaches), a piece of 'track' for it to slide on, lines through sheaves to move it each direction, one line fast to each side, and cam cleats to hold line(s) in position.
In this case IIRC Tom found some old integrated sheaves/cams that are somewhat unusual, but the basic setup is the same.
There are a variety of flavors of this basic design. Main difference is what track and car you use, and how the free ends of the lines are routed to where you manipulate them. Some hardware vendors sell kits or packages for this purpose. Some have a single loop of line rather than two separate lines.
The uber-fancy version is called a "windward sheeting car." It has a similar setup, but it automatically releases the cam on the leeward line (by tension of sheet on a mechanical system built into the car). So you only have to pull in or let out the windward line to adjust traveler position. They are stupid expensive new, but one happened to come with my boat when I bought it, so I have that.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <TomB-mainsheet-travelers-01-2000pxw.jpg> <TomB-mainsheet-travelers-02-2000pxw.jpg>
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Gerry Lempicki -
Henry Rodriguez -
John Schinnerer