Following this thread with massive interest! I did the Salish 100 singlehanded on my M-15 and a couple of things about the boat were REALLY challenging. Keep in mind I’m also coming from living on a Flicka for many years, so the Monty is a huge compromise from what I’m used to! 1. Sitting headroom! After a week of hunching over in the cabin I was SO tired of bumping my head, kinking my neck and back, and having no place to comfortably relax inside. 2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I use wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion. I can see my wife joining me if we are in a marina, but I don’t think proper cruising would work with both of us on an M-15 anchored out. She is not obsessed with sailing, and I love singlehanding, so not a huge deal, but it’s something to consider. I’ve been considering moving to a Scamp, but still debating if that’s a good idea or not. With a boom tent possibly more room than the cabin of an M-15? Beachable for those times you want to bring your wife and camp ashore? Or use filler boards for a huge double berth! Easier to tow, small enough to put in my garage, and part of an instant community, the Scamp is compelling! I’ll keep the Monty for now and deal with it’s compromises, but if a fiberglass Scamp comes up for sale for a great deal I may make the jump and sell my M-15. Thoughts? Rusty Knorr on “Vanilla” www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:00 AM, montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Disastrous trip (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: Disastrous trip (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Disastrous trip (Dave Scobie) 4. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Peter Zimowsky) 5. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Thomas Buzzi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:10:40 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <6C0BB6C2-620F-4CE6-B8D7-1AA1E23538D1@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:07:09 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <9d8cdbc2-3510-f50a-d07a-5841e55cb466@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Having an M17 and having been on two different M15s, I will say the M17 is quite a bit roomier. The cockpit, the cabin, the foredeck...amazing how much more volume two feet of length and more beam provides.
And, 'roomier' is relative - it's still a 'pocket' cruiser.
I would say a first step would be to visit an M17 somewhere in person and feel the difference - your wife as well as you.
The main concern with older M17s in particular is swelling in the keel, locking the CB from moving down and up. From the steel punchings used as ballast in early years. They can rust enough to swell enough to do that, if water has gotten into the keel. I don't recall when it switched to lead, someone here probably does.
Other than that, just the usual stuff on an older boat, not specific to an M17. Rigging, hardware, wear and tear, etc.
cheers, John
On 8/10/19 9:10 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:19:45 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <CAGjBOA5dYkOE8--3_bS6OEV3iDc38SLSG5hCis4GPFfJj6i7Wg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:33:09 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Cc: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <D0BA448E-56AB-41C2-806C-24480DB985F6@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:53:37 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <CA+TbpAWXObHDHAm68gvQbio2K_UBPncuP4TDOGi3H9SkTm2LoA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter, I had a Flicka 20. It was a GREAT boat for single or double occupancy. Seaworthy as they come, toilet, stove, lots of storage, HEADROOM and I am 6' tall!. Wait for it......it weighs 6000 pounds. You would probably need a semi rig to haul it up a boat ramp if you could find one steep enough. Every boat is a compromise. I sold the Flicka (very sad day!!) because I wanted to explore "foreign waters" inland. Presently own a 17 and yes, it is not for most women although I once had a partner who was tougher than I was and we loved the boat----together. NOW is the time to take your time and research, research, research. Include your wife in all of that, if she intends to be with you in your nautical adventures. No matter how much fun they may be they will never be fun if your mate is not smiling. Wait for it, again, you are headed for one of the two happiest days in a boat owner's life, the day he finds his "dreamboat". The other day depends on how well you research before the first day. Good luck and fair winds, Tom, Monty 17, 1977, #258, AS-IS
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 12:33 PM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ < http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> < http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/
Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 198, Issue 3 ************************************************
Hi all: Extra room: When I did the San Juan cruise in the past, I stretched a lightweight quality backpacking style tarp over the M15 from the mast to the stern. This gave a lot of privacy in marinas. It also protected gear taken out of the cabin when sleeping and put on the back deck. I also cook under the tent. Porta potty - I use a regular RV style porta potty which sits in the cabin when the bed is put away. When sleeping, the porta potty is in the back of the boat. I actually use it, sitting comfortably out in the open but hidden under the tent-like tarp, even in the marina. No one can see under the tent. Depends on the person’s idea of camping - My adult son and I sailed the San Juans and got along fine both sleeping in the cabin. I think it’s because we’re both backpackers. Pocket cruiser - As I have said in the past, I sail once a week year around solo on a local reservoir and the M15 is ideal for handling, launching, etc. It’s a great picnic boat. So for 51 weeks out of the year it’s ideal. For the one week of sailing in the San Juans, it’s a little challenging. Other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association, which takes the annual cruise, have bigger boats and have no problems. I just want to keep up with the big boys. I don’t want to burden them on the trip always being concerned about the smaller boat. By the way - On our recent SJ trip, my wife and I had our golden retriever puppy (4 months old) on the trip. We’re we crazy? Thanks for all the feedback on this thread. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 10:41 PM, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Following this thread with massive interest!
I did the Salish 100 singlehanded on my M-15 and a couple of things about the boat were REALLY challenging. Keep in mind I’m also coming from living on a Flicka for many years, so the Monty is a huge compromise from what I’m used to! 1. Sitting headroom! After a week of hunching over in the cabin I was SO tired of bumping my head, kinking my neck and back, and having no place to comfortably relax inside. 2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I use wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
I can see my wife joining me if we are in a marina, but I don’t think proper cruising would work with both of us on an M-15 anchored out. She is not obsessed with sailing, and I love singlehanding, so not a huge deal, but it’s something to consider.
I’ve been considering moving to a Scamp, but still debating if that’s a good idea or not. With a boom tent possibly more room than the cabin of an M-15? Beachable for those times you want to bring your wife and camp ashore? Or use filler boards for a huge double berth! Easier to tow, small enough to put in my garage, and part of an instant community, the Scamp is compelling! I’ll keep the Monty for now and deal with it’s compromises, but if a fiberglass Scamp comes up for sale for a great deal I may make the jump and sell my M-15.
Thoughts?
Rusty Knorr on “Vanilla”
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com <http://www.rustyknorr.weebly.com/>
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:00 AM, montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Disastrous trip (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: Disastrous trip (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Disastrous trip (Dave Scobie) 4. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Peter Zimowsky) 5. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Thomas Buzzi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:10:40 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com <mailto:rapidz@mac.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <6C0BB6C2-620F-4CE6-B8D7-1AA1E23538D1@mac.com <mailto:6C0BB6C2-620F-4CE6-B8D7-1AA1E23538D1@mac.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:07:09 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net>> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <9d8cdbc2-3510-f50a-d07a-5841e55cb466@eco-living.net <mailto:9d8cdbc2-3510-f50a-d07a-5841e55cb466@eco-living.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Having an M17 and having been on two different M15s, I will say the M17 is quite a bit roomier. The cockpit, the cabin, the foredeck...amazing how much more volume two feet of length and more beam provides.
And, 'roomier' is relative - it's still a 'pocket' cruiser.
I would say a first step would be to visit an M17 somewhere in person and feel the difference - your wife as well as you.
The main concern with older M17s in particular is swelling in the keel, locking the CB from moving down and up. From the steel punchings used as ballast in early years. They can rust enough to swell enough to do that, if water has gotten into the keel. I don't recall when it switched to lead, someone here probably does.
Other than that, just the usual stuff on an older boat, not specific to an M17. Rigging, hardware, wear and tear, etc.
cheers, John
On 8/10/19 9:10 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:19:45 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com <mailto:scoobscobie@gmail.com>> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com <mailto:rapidz@mac.com>>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <CAGjBOA5dYkOE8--3_bS6OEV3iDc38SLSG5hCis4GPFfJj6i7Wg@mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAGjBOA5dYkOE8--3_bS6OEV3iDc38SLSG5hCis4GPFfJj6i7Wg@mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:33:09 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com <mailto:rapidz@mac.com>> To: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com <mailto:scoobscobie@gmail.com>> Cc: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <D0BA448E-56AB-41C2-806C-24480DB985F6@mac.com <mailto:D0BA448E-56AB-41C2-806C-24480DB985F6@mac.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com <mailto:scoobscobie@gmail.com>> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> <http://sv-swallow.com/ <http://sv-swallow.com/>> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> <http://m17-375.com/ <http://m17-375.com/>> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/><http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>>> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:53:37 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <mailto:thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com>> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com <mailto:rapidz@mac.com>>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <CA+TbpAWXObHDHAm68gvQbio2K_UBPncuP4TDOGi3H9SkTm2LoA@mail.gmail.com <mailto:CA+TbpAWXObHDHAm68gvQbio2K_UBPncuP4TDOGi3H9SkTm2LoA@mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter, I had a Flicka 20. It was a GREAT boat for single or double occupancy. Seaworthy as they come, toilet, stove, lots of storage, HEADROOM and I am 6' tall!. Wait for it......it weighs 6000 pounds. You would probably need a semi rig to haul it up a boat ramp if you could find one steep enough. Every boat is a compromise. I sold the Flicka (very sad day!!) because I wanted to explore "foreign waters" inland. Presently own a 17 and yes, it is not for most women although I once had a partner who was tougher than I was and we loved the boat----together. NOW is the time to take your time and research, research, research. Include your wife in all of that, if she intends to be with you in your nautical adventures. No matter how much fun they may be they will never be fun if your mate is not smiling. Wait for it, again, you are headed for one of the two happiest days in a boat owner's life, the day he finds his "dreamboat". The other day depends on how well you research before the first day. Good luck and fair winds, Tom, Monty 17, 1977, #258, AS-IS
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On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 12:33 PM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com <mailto:scoobscobie@gmail.com>> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> <http://sv-swallow.com/ <http://sv-swallow.com/>> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> <http://m17-375.com/ <http://m17-375.com/>> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/> < http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> <mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> < http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>
Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 198, Issue 3 ************************************************
Pete, My suggestion is to keep the Monty at all costs! You clearly love the boat, you’ll be so disappointed if you lose it. Get set up with a charter company in Seattle, Bellingham, Anacortes,or San Juan Islands and just charter a bigger boat for that trip. Sure it’s expensive, but not as much as flying to Vail for a week of skiing, or going gambling in Vegas, etc. Do what you love, and bring those you love along with you! And take that pup sailing every week all year around! I would give almost anything to have a canine sailing companion. ❤️ www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Aug 11, 2019, at 6:56 AM, Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> wrote:
Hi all: Extra room: When I did the San Juan cruise in the past, I stretched a lightweight quality backpacking style tarp over the M15 from the mast to the stern. This gave a lot of privacy in marinas. It also protected gear taken out of the cabin when sleeping and put on the back deck. I also cook under the tent.
Porta potty - I use a regular RV style porta potty which sits in the cabin when the bed is put away. When sleeping, the porta potty is in the back of the boat. I actually use it, sitting comfortably out in the open but hidden under the tent-like tarp, even in the marina. No one can see under the tent.
Depends on the person’s idea of camping - My adult son and I sailed the San Juans and got along fine both sleeping in the cabin. I think it’s because we’re both backpackers.
Pocket cruiser - As I have said in the past, I sail once a week year around solo on a local reservoir and the M15 is ideal for handling, launching, etc. It’s a great picnic boat. So for 51 weeks out of the year it’s ideal. For the one week of sailing in the San Juans, it’s a little challenging. Other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association, which takes the annual cruise, have bigger boats and have no problems. I just want to keep up with the big boys. I don’t want to burden them on the trip always being concerned about the smaller boat.
By the way - On our recent SJ trip, my wife and I had our golden retriever puppy (4 months old) on the trip. We’re we crazy?
Thanks for all the feedback on this thread.
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 10:41 PM, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Following this thread with massive interest!
I did the Salish 100 singlehanded on my M-15 and a couple of things about the boat were REALLY challenging. Keep in mind I’m also coming from living on a Flicka for many years, so the Monty is a huge compromise from what I’m used to! 1. Sitting headroom! After a week of hunching over in the cabin I was SO tired of bumping my head, kinking my neck and back, and having no place to comfortably relax inside. 2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I use wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
I can see my wife joining me if we are in a marina, but I don’t think proper cruising would work with both of us on an M-15 anchored out. She is not obsessed with sailing, and I love singlehanding, so not a huge deal, but it’s something to consider.
I’ve been considering moving to a Scamp, but still debating if that’s a good idea or not. With a boom tent possibly more room than the cabin of an M-15? Beachable for those times you want to bring your wife and camp ashore? Or use filler boards for a huge double berth! Easier to tow, small enough to put in my garage, and part of an instant community, the Scamp is compelling! I’ll keep the Monty for now and deal with it’s compromises, but if a fiberglass Scamp comes up for sale for a great deal I may make the jump and sell my M-15.
Thoughts?
Rusty Knorr on “Vanilla”
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:00 AM, montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Disastrous trip (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: Disastrous trip (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Disastrous trip (Dave Scobie) 4. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Peter Zimowsky) 5. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Thomas Buzzi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:10:40 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <6C0BB6C2-620F-4CE6-B8D7-1AA1E23538D1@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:07:09 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <9d8cdbc2-3510-f50a-d07a-5841e55cb466@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Having an M17 and having been on two different M15s, I will say the M17 is quite a bit roomier. The cockpit, the cabin, the foredeck...amazing how much more volume two feet of length and more beam provides.
And, 'roomier' is relative - it's still a 'pocket' cruiser.
I would say a first step would be to visit an M17 somewhere in person and feel the difference - your wife as well as you.
The main concern with older M17s in particular is swelling in the keel, locking the CB from moving down and up. From the steel punchings used as ballast in early years. They can rust enough to swell enough to do that, if water has gotten into the keel. I don't recall when it switched to lead, someone here probably does.
Other than that, just the usual stuff on an older boat, not specific to an M17. Rigging, hardware, wear and tear, etc.
cheers, John
On 8/10/19 9:10 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:19:45 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <CAGjBOA5dYkOE8--3_bS6OEV3iDc38SLSG5hCis4GPFfJj6i7Wg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:33:09 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Cc: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <D0BA448E-56AB-41C2-806C-24480DB985F6@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/<http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:53:37 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <CA+TbpAWXObHDHAm68gvQbio2K_UBPncuP4TDOGi3H9SkTm2LoA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter, I had a Flicka 20. It was a GREAT boat for single or double occupancy. Seaworthy as they come, toilet, stove, lots of storage, HEADROOM and I am 6' tall!. Wait for it......it weighs 6000 pounds. You would probably need a semi rig to haul it up a boat ramp if you could find one steep enough. Every boat is a compromise. I sold the Flicka (very sad day!!) because I wanted to explore "foreign waters" inland. Presently own a 17 and yes, it is not for most women although I once had a partner who was tougher than I was and we loved the boat----together. NOW is the time to take your time and research, research, research. Include your wife in all of that, if she intends to be with you in your nautical adventures. No matter how much fun they may be they will never be fun if your mate is not smiling. Wait for it, again, you are headed for one of the two happiest days in a boat owner's life, the day he finds his "dreamboat". The other day depends on how well you research before the first day. Good luck and fair winds, Tom, Monty 17, 1977, #258, AS-IS
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 12:33 PM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ < http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> < http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/
Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
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------------------------------
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 198, Issue 3 ************************************************
One more thing, Pete. If you’re concerned about being the small boat or going too slow...invite more Monty’s!!! I would have joined you and I’m sure there are other Monty/small boat sailors who would have loved to come along. Build up a crew of boats who travel at the same speed as you, and let the big speed demons race to be the first there if they want. Rusty on Vanilla www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Aug 11, 2019, at 6:56 AM, Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> wrote:
Hi all: Extra room: When I did the San Juan cruise in the past, I stretched a lightweight quality backpacking style tarp over the M15 from the mast to the stern. This gave a lot of privacy in marinas. It also protected gear taken out of the cabin when sleeping and put on the back deck. I also cook under the tent.
Porta potty - I use a regular RV style porta potty which sits in the cabin when the bed is put away. When sleeping, the porta potty is in the back of the boat. I actually use it, sitting comfortably out in the open but hidden under the tent-like tarp, even in the marina. No one can see under the tent.
Depends on the person’s idea of camping - My adult son and I sailed the San Juans and got along fine both sleeping in the cabin. I think it’s because we’re both backpackers.
Pocket cruiser - As I have said in the past, I sail once a week year around solo on a local reservoir and the M15 is ideal for handling, launching, etc. It’s a great picnic boat. So for 51 weeks out of the year it’s ideal. For the one week of sailing in the San Juans, it’s a little challenging. Other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association, which takes the annual cruise, have bigger boats and have no problems. I just want to keep up with the big boys. I don’t want to burden them on the trip always being concerned about the smaller boat.
By the way - On our recent SJ trip, my wife and I had our golden retriever puppy (4 months old) on the trip. We’re we crazy?
Thanks for all the feedback on this thread.
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 10:41 PM, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Following this thread with massive interest!
I did the Salish 100 singlehanded on my M-15 and a couple of things about the boat were REALLY challenging. Keep in mind I’m also coming from living on a Flicka for many years, so the Monty is a huge compromise from what I’m used to! 1. Sitting headroom! After a week of hunching over in the cabin I was SO tired of bumping my head, kinking my neck and back, and having no place to comfortably relax inside. 2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I use wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
I can see my wife joining me if we are in a marina, but I don’t think proper cruising would work with both of us on an M-15 anchored out. She is not obsessed with sailing, and I love singlehanding, so not a huge deal, but it’s something to consider.
I’ve been considering moving to a Scamp, but still debating if that’s a good idea or not. With a boom tent possibly more room than the cabin of an M-15? Beachable for those times you want to bring your wife and camp ashore? Or use filler boards for a huge double berth! Easier to tow, small enough to put in my garage, and part of an instant community, the Scamp is compelling! I’ll keep the Monty for now and deal with it’s compromises, but if a fiberglass Scamp comes up for sale for a great deal I may make the jump and sell my M-15.
Thoughts?
Rusty Knorr on “Vanilla”
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:00 AM, montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Disastrous trip (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: Disastrous trip (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Disastrous trip (Dave Scobie) 4. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Peter Zimowsky) 5. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Thomas Buzzi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:10:40 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <6C0BB6C2-620F-4CE6-B8D7-1AA1E23538D1@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:07:09 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <9d8cdbc2-3510-f50a-d07a-5841e55cb466@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Having an M17 and having been on two different M15s, I will say the M17 is quite a bit roomier. The cockpit, the cabin, the foredeck...amazing how much more volume two feet of length and more beam provides.
And, 'roomier' is relative - it's still a 'pocket' cruiser.
I would say a first step would be to visit an M17 somewhere in person and feel the difference - your wife as well as you.
The main concern with older M17s in particular is swelling in the keel, locking the CB from moving down and up. From the steel punchings used as ballast in early years. They can rust enough to swell enough to do that, if water has gotten into the keel. I don't recall when it switched to lead, someone here probably does.
Other than that, just the usual stuff on an older boat, not specific to an M17. Rigging, hardware, wear and tear, etc.
cheers, John
On 8/10/19 9:10 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:19:45 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <CAGjBOA5dYkOE8--3_bS6OEV3iDc38SLSG5hCis4GPFfJj6i7Wg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:33:09 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Cc: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <D0BA448E-56AB-41C2-806C-24480DB985F6@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/<http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:53:37 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <CA+TbpAWXObHDHAm68gvQbio2K_UBPncuP4TDOGi3H9SkTm2LoA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter, I had a Flicka 20. It was a GREAT boat for single or double occupancy. Seaworthy as they come, toilet, stove, lots of storage, HEADROOM and I am 6' tall!. Wait for it......it weighs 6000 pounds. You would probably need a semi rig to haul it up a boat ramp if you could find one steep enough. Every boat is a compromise. I sold the Flicka (very sad day!!) because I wanted to explore "foreign waters" inland. Presently own a 17 and yes, it is not for most women although I once had a partner who was tougher than I was and we loved the boat----together. NOW is the time to take your time and research, research, research. Include your wife in all of that, if she intends to be with you in your nautical adventures. No matter how much fun they may be they will never be fun if your mate is not smiling. Wait for it, again, you are headed for one of the two happiest days in a boat owner's life, the day he finds his "dreamboat". The other day depends on how well you research before the first day. Good luck and fair winds, Tom, Monty 17, 1977, #258, AS-IS
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 12:33 PM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ < http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> < http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/
Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 198, Issue 3 ************************************************
Thanks for the share. The best boat for someone is the one they will use. Simple launch, simple retrieve, just enough for most of your needs most of the time is the best way to go concerning "bang for your buck". Fair winds, Tom B, Monty 17 On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 11:07 AM Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
One more thing, Pete. If you’re concerned about being the small boat or going too slow...invite more Monty’s!!! I would have joined you and I’m sure there are other Monty/small boat sailors who would have loved to come along. Build up a crew of boats who travel at the same speed as you, and let the big speed demons race to be the first there if they want.
Rusty on Vanilla
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Aug 11, 2019, at 6:56 AM, Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> wrote:
Hi all: Extra room: When I did the San Juan cruise in the past, I stretched a lightweight quality backpacking style tarp over the M15 from the mast to the stern. This gave a lot of privacy in marinas. It also protected gear taken out of the cabin when sleeping and put on the back deck. I also cook under the tent.
Porta potty - I use a regular RV style porta potty which sits in the cabin when the bed is put away. When sleeping, the porta potty is in the back of the boat. I actually use it, sitting comfortably out in the open but hidden under the tent-like tarp, even in the marina. No one can see under the tent.
Depends on the person’s idea of camping - My adult son and I sailed the San Juans and got along fine both sleeping in the cabin. I think it’s because we’re both backpackers.
Pocket cruiser - As I have said in the past, I sail once a week year around solo on a local reservoir and the M15 is ideal for handling, launching, etc. It’s a great picnic boat. So for 51 weeks out of the year it’s ideal. For the one week of sailing in the San Juans, it’s a little challenging. Other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association, which takes the annual cruise, have bigger boats and have no problems. I just want to keep up with the big boys. I don’t want to burden them on the trip always being concerned about the smaller boat.
By the way - On our recent SJ trip, my wife and I had our golden retriever puppy (4 months old) on the trip. We’re we crazy?
Thanks for all the feedback on this thread.
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 10:41 PM, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Following this thread with massive interest!
I did the Salish 100 singlehanded on my M-15 and a couple of things about the boat were REALLY challenging. Keep in mind I’m also coming from living on a Flicka for many years, so the Monty is a huge compromise from what I’m used to! 1. Sitting headroom! After a week of hunching over in the cabin I was SO tired of bumping my head, kinking my neck and back, and having no place to comfortably relax inside. 2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I use wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
I can see my wife joining me if we are in a marina, but I don’t think proper cruising would work with both of us on an M-15 anchored out. She is not obsessed with sailing, and I love singlehanding, so not a huge deal, but it’s something to consider.
I’ve been considering moving to a Scamp, but still debating if that’s a good idea or not. With a boom tent possibly more room than the cabin of an M-15? Beachable for those times you want to bring your wife and camp ashore? Or use filler boards for a huge double berth! Easier to tow, small enough to put in my garage, and part of an instant community, the Scamp is compelling! I’ll keep the Monty for now and deal with it’s compromises, but if a fiberglass Scamp comes up for sale for a great deal I may make the jump and sell my M-15.
Thoughts?
Rusty Knorr on “Vanilla”
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:00 AM, montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Disastrous trip (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: Disastrous trip (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Disastrous trip (Dave Scobie) 4. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Peter Zimowsky) 5. Re: Disastrous trip Thanks for info (Thomas Buzzi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:10:40 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <6C0BB6C2-620F-4CE6-B8D7-1AA1E23538D1@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on
the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped?
Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:07:09 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <9d8cdbc2-3510-f50a-d07a-5841e55cb466@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Having an M17 and having been on two different M15s, I will say the M17 is quite a bit roomier. The cockpit, the cabin, the foredeck...amazing how much more volume two feet of length and more beam provides.
And, 'roomier' is relative - it's still a 'pocket' cruiser.
I would say a first step would be to visit an M17 somewhere in person and feel the difference - your wife as well as you.
The main concern with older M17s in particular is swelling in the keel, locking the CB from moving down and up. From the steel punchings used as ballast in early years. They can rust enough to swell enough to do that, if water has gotten into the keel. I don't recall when it switched to lead, someone here probably does.
Other than that, just the usual stuff on an older boat, not specific to an M17. Rigging, hardware, wear and tear, etc.
cheers, John
On 8/10/19 9:10 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 10:19:45 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Message-ID: <CAGjBOA5dYkOE8--3_bS6OEV3iDc38SLSG5hCis4GPFfJj6i7Wg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:33:09 -0600 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Cc: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <D0BA448E-56AB-41C2-806C-24480DB985F6@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com/
:: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/< http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> < http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/
Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:53:37 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip Thanks for info Message-ID: <CA+TbpAWXObHDHAm68gvQbio2K_UBPncuP4TDOGi3H9SkTm2LoA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Peter, I had a Flicka 20. It was a GREAT boat for single or double occupancy. Seaworthy as they come, toilet, stove, lots of storage, HEADROOM and I am 6' tall!. Wait for it......it weighs 6000 pounds. You would probably need a semi rig to haul it up a boat ramp if you could find one steep enough. Every boat is a compromise. I sold the Flicka (very sad day!!) because I wanted to explore "foreign waters" inland. Presently own a 17 and yes, it is not for most women although I once had a partner who was tougher than I was and we loved the boat----together. NOW is the time to take your time and research, research, research. Include your wife in all of that, if she intends to be with you in your nautical adventures. No matter how much fun they may be they will never be fun if your mate is not smiling. Wait for it, again, you are headed for one of the two happiest days in a boat owner's life, the day he finds his "dreamboat". The other day depends on how well you research before the first day. Good luck and fair winds, Tom, Monty 17, 1977, #258, AS-IS
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On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 12:33 PM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
hi: Thanks for info. Maybe a pocket cruiser isn?t for me. Heaven forbid, but do I need a Catalina 22 or something that big? Ugh?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:19 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter:
First questions for you - what was 'to small'? The berth (M15's is larger), no place to sit upright? No private head? No full galley? These are things that an M17 barely will give you nare no better than on the M15.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com/> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com < http://m17-375.com/> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ < http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:11 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi: we sailed the San Juans last week. My wife wanted to try camping on the boat (M15). Didn?t work out. She doesn?t like how small it is. I love the M15 and it works out for solo boaters. Should I go to a M17 or is it just as cramped? Problem is, my M15 is in excellent shape and trading up to a M17 could be bad because I?ve read so many stories on this thread about older boats and all the problems. I don?t want to give up a good boat for one with problems. What do you have to watch out for when looking at another boat?
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> < http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ < http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/ > Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
------------------------------
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The hull liner on the M15 was designed for the older, like 1980s older, Thetford and similar potties. Jerry says that the first M15s have even a smaller space as the potti he fit the mold for was discontinued just after he began selling the boats. He says he did modify the mold to fit the new potti size ... though I've never been able to confirm Jerry's assertion by measurements early M15's with later build boats. My M15 had a Thetford 235 that fit exactly perfect (picture attached). DON'T go by model number alone as Thetford has changed the design over the years getting a bit bigger each time it seems. Thetford then 'recycles' model numbers. The latest is the 260 (will NOT fit) has been changed to 135 (same 260 potti just different stenciling). The older 90s & 00s 135 can be made to fit using hot water and forming the base to the M15's potti space. For 'wag bag' systems find a 2.5(-ish) gallon bucket that has the same diameter as a 5-gallon bucket. There are snap-on seats that will use the 'wag bag' bags. The 2.5 gallon buckets are shirt enough to fit in the M15's potti space. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:42 PM Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I use wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
How complicated it's become... :-) My grandpa was a commercial fisherman "back in the day." The toilet on his 46 ft. troller (built in 1946) was an empty 5-gallon steel bucket that originally held hydraulic fluid (the predecessor to the now plastic 5-gal buckets). It was stored in a gear locker on the starboard aft side of the house. The locker was large enough to sit inside...just barely, with foulies hanging above and rubber boots below. There was a toilet seat to put on the rim. The bucket was of course simply emptied overboard and rinsed with saltwater. cheers, John On 8/11/19 9:27 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
The hull liner on the M15 was designed for the older, like 1980s older, Thetford and similar potties. Jerry says that the first M15s have even a smaller space as the potti he fit the mold for was discontinued just after he began selling the boats. He says he did modify the mold to fit the new potti size ... though I've never been able to confirm Jerry's assertion by measurements early M15's with later build boats.
My M15 had a Thetford 235 that fit exactly perfect (picture attached).
DON'T go by model number alone as Thetford has changed the design over the years getting a bit bigger each time it seems. Thetford then 'recycles' model numbers. The latest is the 260 (will NOT fit) has been changed to 135 (same 260 potti just different stenciling). The older 90s & 00s 135 can be made to fit using hot water and forming the base to the M15's potti space.
For 'wag bag' systems find a 2.5(-ish) gallon bucket that has the same diameter as a 5-gallon bucket. There are snap-on seats that will use the 'wag bag' bags. The 2.5 gallon buckets are shirt enough to fit in the M15's potti space.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:42 PM Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I use wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Potti time, I adapted a 3.5 gallon plastic bucked to accept a standard toilet seat from the plumber supply store. I use "wag bags" inside of it. They work fine with no odors and are disinfected. I found that the used "wagbag" can be closed and left inside the bucket for future disposal ashore of chemically treated waste and there was ample room for new wag bags to be placed in above the used and closed one. Ashore I simply remove the snap on seat, and carry the bucket with handle ashore and dump the innocuous waste into a hopper. Living on a boat for even a short while requires that all one's bodily processes be allow for. Fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 11:44 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
How complicated it's become... :-) My grandpa was a commercial fisherman "back in the day." The toilet on his 46 ft. troller (built in 1946) was an empty 5-gallon steel bucket that originally held hydraulic fluid (the predecessor to the now plastic 5-gal buckets). It was stored in a gear locker on the starboard aft side of the house. The locker was large enough to sit inside...just barely, with foulies hanging above and rubber boots below. There was a toilet seat to put on the rim. The bucket was of course simply emptied overboard and rinsed with saltwater.
cheers, John
On 8/11/19 9:27 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
The hull liner on the M15 was designed for the older, like 1980s older, Thetford and similar potties. Jerry says that the first M15s have even a smaller space as the potti he fit the mold for was discontinued just after he began selling the boats. He says he did modify the mold to fit the new potti size ... though I've never been able to confirm Jerry's assertion by measurements early M15's with later build boats.
My M15 had a Thetford 235 that fit exactly perfect (picture attached).
DON'T go by model number alone as Thetford has changed the design over the years getting a bit bigger each time it seems. Thetford then 'recycles' model numbers. The latest is the 260 (will NOT fit) has been changed to 135 (same 260 potti just different stenciling). The older 90s & 00s 135 can be made to fit using hot water and forming the base to the M15's potti space.
For 'wag bag' systems find a 2.5(-ish) gallon bucket that has the same diameter as a 5-gallon bucket. There are snap-on seats that will use the 'wag bag' bags. The 2.5 gallon buckets are shirt enough to fit in the M15's potti space.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:42 PM Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I
use
wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
How do you rig the regular toilet seat to snap on and off? On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 11:03 AM Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Potti time, I adapted a 3.5 gallon plastic bucked to accept a standard toilet seat from the plumber supply store. I use "wag bags" inside of it. They work fine with no odors and are disinfected. I found that the used "wagbag" can be closed and left inside the bucket for future disposal ashore of chemically treated waste and there was ample room for new wag bags to be placed in above the used and closed one. Ashore I simply remove the snap on seat, and carry the bucket with handle ashore and dump the innocuous waste into a hopper. Living on a boat for even a short while requires that all one's bodily processes be allow for. Fair winds, Tom B
< https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaig...
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On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 11:44 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
How complicated it's become... :-) My grandpa was a commercial fisherman "back in the day." The toilet on his 46 ft. troller (built in 1946) was an empty 5-gallon steel bucket that originally held hydraulic fluid (the predecessor to the now plastic 5-gal buckets). It was stored in a gear locker on the starboard aft side of the house. The locker was large enough to sit inside...just barely, with foulies hanging above and rubber boots below. There was a toilet seat to put on the rim. The bucket was of course simply emptied overboard and rinsed with saltwater.
cheers, John
On 8/11/19 9:27 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
The hull liner on the M15 was designed for the older, like 1980s older, Thetford and similar potties. Jerry says that the first M15s have even a smaller space as the potti he fit the mold for was discontinued just after he began selling the boats. He says he did modify the mold to fit the new potti size ... though I've never been able to confirm Jerry's assertion by measurements early M15's with later build boats.
My M15 had a Thetford 235 that fit exactly perfect (picture attached).
DON'T go by model number alone as Thetford has changed the design over the years getting a bit bigger each time it seems. Thetford then 'recycles' model numbers. The latest is the 260 (will NOT fit) has been changed to 135 (same 260 potti just different stenciling). The older 90s & 00s 135 can be made to fit using hot water and forming the base to the M15's potti space.
For 'wag bag' systems find a 2.5(-ish) gallon bucket that has the same diameter as a 5-gallon bucket. There are snap-on seats that will use the 'wag bag' bags. The 2.5 gallon buckets are shirt enough to fit in the M15's potti space.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:42 PM Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty, but I
use
wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Obtain a wooden toilet seat, not plastic and place it on top of the plastic bucket mentioned earlier. Use a pencil or fine felt pen to trace the inside face of the bucket onto the underside of your toilet seat. By flipping the seat over you will see exactly where to screw the wooden blocks, wooden dowel 1" lengths or whatever you decide to hold your seat centered over the bucket to the inside of the line you have drawn. Properly placed blocks will hold the toilet seat centered over the wag bag in your bucked. The weigh of the the occupant will hold the seat in place on the bucket. It is possible to also rig up latch to said positioning blocks to active lock them in place on the center of your bucket if you find that necessary. I used some scraps of "Kingboard" a type of high density plastic available at some boat equipment stores, out of which to fashion the blocks. It was then a matter of drilling a hole in each and using a screw that was about 3/4 inch longer than the thickness of the board to fasten it to the underside of the seat. I have a Monty 17. I do not know what the height beneath the seat of a Monty 15 is so clearances might be tight. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 1:06 PM Gail Russell <gail@zeliga.com> wrote:
How do you rig the regular toilet seat to snap on and off?
On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 11:03 AM Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Potti time, I adapted a 3.5 gallon plastic bucked to accept a standard toilet seat from the plumber supply store. I use "wag bags" inside of it. They work fine with no odors and are disinfected. I found that the used "wagbag" can be closed and left inside the bucket for future disposal ashore of chemically treated waste and there was ample room for new wag bags to be placed in above the used and closed one. Ashore I simply remove the snap on seat, and carry the bucket with handle ashore and dump the innocuous waste into a hopper. Living on a boat for even a short while requires that all one's bodily processes be allow for. Fair winds, Tom B
<
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaig...
Virus-free. www.avast.com <
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaig...
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 11:44 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
How complicated it's become... :-) My grandpa was a commercial fisherman "back in the day." The toilet on his 46 ft. troller (built in 1946) was an empty 5-gallon steel bucket that originally held hydraulic fluid (the predecessor to the now plastic 5-gal buckets). It was stored in a gear locker on the starboard aft side of the house. The locker was large enough to sit inside...just barely, with foulies hanging above and rubber boots below. There was a toilet seat to put on the rim. The bucket was of course simply emptied overboard and rinsed with saltwater.
cheers, John
On 8/11/19 9:27 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
The hull liner on the M15 was designed for the older, like 1980s older, Thetford and similar potties. Jerry says that the first M15s have even a smaller space as the potti he fit the mold for was discontinued just after he began selling the boats. He says he did modify the mold to fit the new potti size ... though I've never been able to confirm Jerry's assertion by measurements early M15's with later build boats.
My M15 had a Thetford 235 that fit exactly perfect (picture attached).
DON'T go by model number alone as Thetford has changed the design over the years getting a bit bigger each time it seems. Thetford then 'recycles' model numbers. The latest is the 260 (will NOT fit) has been changed to 135 (same 260 potti just different stenciling). The older 90s & 00s 135 can be made to fit using hot water and forming the base to the M15's potti space.
For 'wag bag' systems find a 2.5(-ish) gallon bucket that has the same diameter as a 5-gallon bucket. There are snap-on seats that will use the 'wag bag' bags. The 2.5 gallon buckets are shirt enough to fit in the M15's potti space.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:42 PM Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
2. Toilet time. Granted, the Monty has a place for a Portapotty,
but I use
wagbags and I could NOT find a comfortable position to sit and use the head with the Fold-To-Go portable toilet I brought. Maybe I can retool this system, but so far it’s not working. What specific Portapotty fits in an M-15? The one I have is too big at the base, and I don’t think I would want to use one anyway, wagbags are great in my opinion.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 8/10/19 9:41 PM, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats wrote: ...
I’ve been considering moving to a Scamp, but still debating if that’s a good idea or not. With a boom tent possibly more room than the cabin of an M-15? Beachable for those times you want to bring your wife and camp ashore? Or use filler boards for a huge double berth! Easier to tow, small enough to put in my garage, and part of an instant community, the Scamp is compelling! I’ll keep the Monty for now and deal with it’s compromises, but if a fiberglass Scamp comes up for sale for a great deal I may make the jump and sell my M-15.
Thoughts?
Maybe Daniel Rich can chime in on the SCAMP...if you're still here Daniel...have you splashed that SCAMP yet? No pressure! Just curious ;-) For camp cruising there are a lot of options, many lighter and a bit roomier than a SCAMP (and easier to build if you're building yourself). Goat Island Skiff; CLC Skerry, or Northwester dory; Norseboat 17.5 (factory dodger, bimini, and tent setups available); Jersey Skiff; etc. If you want a ballasted keel boat, then the hauling weight goes up, unless like the SCAMP it's water ballast. I have been on a guy named Simeon's SCAMP, #11 I think it is. The cockpit is plenty roomy, since most of the boat is cockpit. There's just the storage cuddy with overhanging "veranda" roof up front. If you're more than average height, you can't actually sit upright with your upper half under the cover of the little "veranda." I think at about six feet and up (depending on torso vs. leg length) your head will be bumping the ceiling. I heard that a few tall SCAMP builders raised that roof by a couple inches on their builds so they would fit under it sitting up. The rig is wonderfully simple and performs quite well (balanced lug rig is having a renaissance in recent years). With the water ballast full, it has a definite keelboat feel to its movement. I only got to sail it briefly, in fairly light air. But you can see the videos of Howard Rice capsize testing the prototype, with double reef, in wild wind and whitecaps in the Columbia Gorge, and tell that it is quite rough weather worthy (with a savvy skipper anyhow). I would consider it a great solo micro camp-cruiser that one could easily camp-sleep aboard, beach, rest on tidal flats, etc. Some people have made some pretty sophisticated tent tops for theirs (way beyond a tarp over boom tent). But the production glass version is $$$, and the DIY build is a fairly major project. Two people who comfortably share a backpacking tent could probably cruise together in a SCAMP. But as someone posted earlier in this thread, that probably applies to an M15 as well... cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hey nice to hear from you guys! Well, I am embarrassed to say that my SCAMP #330 has not splashed yet! About 85% done, and looking great. The life of a full time eye surgeon has made boat building a bit slow. That, and I don't know what I'm doing either during the build!! So, I can't comment on cruising. My Monty #208 is still terrific. I actually want to sell it soon (sadness, great boat) because I really don't have room for 2, and the SCAMP will be my boat going forward. But, taking my M15 out Wednesday here at Tomales Bay, so there you go. Daniel -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 12:07 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Disastrous trip On 8/10/19 9:41 PM, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats wrote: ...
I’ve been considering moving to a Scamp, but still debating if that’s a good idea or not. With a boom tent possibly more room than the cabin of an M-15? Beachable for those times you want to bring your wife and camp ashore? Or use filler boards for a huge double berth! Easier to tow, small enough to put in my garage, and part of an instant community, the Scamp is compelling! I’ll keep the Monty for now and deal with it’s compromises, but if a fiberglass Scamp comes up for sale for a great deal I may make the jump and sell my M-15.
Thoughts?
Maybe Daniel Rich can chime in on the SCAMP...if you're still here Daniel...have you splashed that SCAMP yet? No pressure! Just curious ;-) For camp cruising there are a lot of options, many lighter and a bit roomier than a SCAMP (and easier to build if you're building yourself). Goat Island Skiff; CLC Skerry, or Northwester dory; Norseboat 17.5 (factory dodger, bimini, and tent setups available); Jersey Skiff; etc. If you want a ballasted keel boat, then the hauling weight goes up, unless like the SCAMP it's water ballast. I have been on a guy named Simeon's SCAMP, #11 I think it is. The cockpit is plenty roomy, since most of the boat is cockpit. There's just the storage cuddy with overhanging "veranda" roof up front. If you're more than average height, you can't actually sit upright with your upper half under the cover of the little "veranda." I think at about six feet and up (depending on torso vs. leg length) your head will be bumping the ceiling. I heard that a few tall SCAMP builders raised that roof by a couple inches on their builds so they would fit under it sitting up. The rig is wonderfully simple and performs quite well (balanced lug rig is having a renaissance in recent years). With the water ballast full, it has a definite keelboat feel to its movement. I only got to sail it briefly, in fairly light air. But you can see the videos of Howard Rice capsize testing the prototype, with double reef, in wild wind and whitecaps in the Columbia Gorge, and tell that it is quite rough weather worthy (with a savvy skipper anyhow). I would consider it a great solo micro camp-cruiser that one could easily camp-sleep aboard, beach, rest on tidal flats, etc. Some people have made some pretty sophisticated tent tops for theirs (way beyond a tarp over boom tent). But the production glass version is $$$, and the DIY build is a fairly major project. Two people who comfortably share a backpacking tent could probably cruise together in a SCAMP. But as someone posted earlier in this thread, that probably applies to an M15 as well... cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (7)
-
Daniel Rich -
Dave Scobie -
Gail Russell -
John Schinnerer -
Peter Zimowsky -
Rusty Knorr -
Thomas Buzzi