Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom, When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem. Larry Y On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknutÂd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Another Option, I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor. Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track Tom, When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem. Larry Y On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Ok another issue: This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it. Thanks! Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track Another Option, I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor. Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track Tom, When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem. Larry Y On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Jim, my stop pin is epoxied in. I do not remember having to take it out to drop the board but if you epoxy the holes you could use a good bit of silica additive to make removing the epoxy by drilling out easier. But I see no reason not to epoxy it in. Robbin Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of
fiberglass is
as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly
3/16
thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat
and
resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness
of
the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid
fiberglass
to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the
same
thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a
bit
over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward
floor
of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and
by
tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity
of
penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several
cinder
blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson
learned
is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are
machine
thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub
with
some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took
the
opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit
forward
of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical
advantage by
moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1
purchase.
The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked
great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net>
wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car
setup
on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody
know
what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on
3-15/16"
centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track
at 4"
centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
That's a good Idea, much eaiser than trying to glass it in. Thanks for that idea Robbin. Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of robbin roddewig Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:23 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Jim, my stop pin is epoxied in. I do not remember having to take it out to drop the board but if you epoxy the holes you could use a good bit of silica additive to make removing the epoxy by drilling out easier. But I see no reason not to epoxy it in. Robbin Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of
fiberglass is
as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly
3/16
thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat
and
resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness
of
the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid
fiberglass
to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the
same
thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a
bit
over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward
floor
of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and
by
tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity
of
penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several
cinder
blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson
learned
is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are
machine
thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub
with
some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took
the
opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit
forward
of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical
advantage by
moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1
purchase.
The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked
great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net>
wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car
setup
on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody
know
what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on
3-15/16"
centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track
at 4"
centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Jim, What about using a bolt w/lock nut instead of the pin? I've had the centerboard out on our M17 and have kept my eye on that pin ever since. Randy Graves M17 #410 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 5:46 AM, Jim Ellsworth <j_ellsworth@earthlink.net> wrote:
That's a good Idea, much eaiser than trying to glass it in. Thanks for that idea Robbin.
Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of robbin roddewig Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:23 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Jim, my stop pin is epoxied in. I do not remember having to take it out to drop the board but if you epoxy the holes you could use a good bit of silica additive to make removing the epoxy by drilling out easier. But I see no reason not to epoxy it in.
Robbin
Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of
fiberglass is
as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly
3/16
thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat
and
resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness
of
the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid
fiberglass
to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the
same
thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a
bit
over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward
floor
of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and
by
tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity
of
penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several
cinder
blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson
learned
is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are
machine
thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub
with
some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took
the
opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit
forward
of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical
advantage by
moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1
purchase.
The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked
great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net>
wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car
setup
on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody
know
what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on
3-15/16"
centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track
at 4"
centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Hi Jim, I also did my 'board. The swivel pin and the stopper pin were stainless bolts; the swivel seemed too thin (3/8") and was bent; the stopper was damaged (gee, I wonder what happened to the P.O.). I went to a non-ferrous fastener company, and was able to get suitable stainless thin-head bolts and thin nylok nuts (went 1/2" on swivel, and 5/16" on retainer). Seem to be working o.k.so far. Granted, the fairness of the hull is now compromised, but the way I sail, I'll never notice the .01 knot difference... Cheers, Doug M17 Poco Cambio On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:39 AM, R.K.Graves <rkgraves@gmail.com> wrote:
Jim,
What about using a bolt w/lock nut instead of the pin? I've had the centerboard out on our M17 and have kept my eye on that pin ever since.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 5:46 AM, Jim Ellsworth <j_ellsworth@earthlink.net> wrote:
That's a good Idea, much eaiser than trying to glass it in. Thanks for that idea Robbin.
Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of robbin roddewig Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:23 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Jim, my stop pin is epoxied in. I do not remember having to take it out to drop the board but if you epoxy the holes you could use a good bit of silica additive to make removing the epoxy by drilling out easier. But I see no reason not to epoxy it in.
Robbin
Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of
fiberglass is
as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly
3/16
thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat
and
resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness
of
the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid
fiberglass
to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the
same
thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a
bit
over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward
floor
of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and
by
tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity
of
penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several
cinder
blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson
learned
is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are
machine
thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub
with
some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took
the
opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit
forward
of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical
advantage by
moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1
purchase.
The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked
great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net>
wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car
setup
on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody
know
what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on
3-15/16"
centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track
at 4"
centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Jim, I never worried about the pin backing out, because I have a newish boat. Your experience with a boat that is only slightly older than mine is a cause for concern and vigilance. Do you have any idea whether the lateral movement is caused by vibration, or by raising the board up and down? Tom Jenkins M-17 #626 Scintilla On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Gary, That's a great idea. I have never had the boat raised off the trailer, but I gather from what you say that the board is not flush with the bottom of the keel when fully retracted. I imagine that the board is loose enough that will vibrate in the water at very high speeds, so the fastest sailers have the most to worry about (that not being very much). Tom Jenkins Scintilla On Feb 26, 2010, at 2:12 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out.
--Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Vince and Sharon's boat was bought new in maybe 2003. ⎈--Gary ☺ On Feb 26, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, That's a great idea. I have never had the boat raised off the trailer, but I gather from what you say that the board is not flush with the bottom of the keel when fully retracted. I imagine that the board is loose enough that will vibrate in the water at very high speeds, so the fastest sailers have the most to worry about (that not being very much). Tom Jenkins Scintilla
On Feb 26, 2010, at 2:12 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out.
--Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Hi Gary! I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive. At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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I saw something not too long ago that cautioned keel/cb owners to never, never anchor/moor with the cb in the down position for this reason. Joe M17 Seafrog #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ellsworth To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Hi Gary! I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive. At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Good Advice Joe, After spreading some 5200 over the hole and having it poke through, I put a second coat on and only put the centerboard down sailing upwind. This seemed to work until I noticed the pin hanging out after my trip to Havasu (6 hr. drive + 3 days in the water). Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:22 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem I saw something not too long ago that cautioned keel/cb owners to never, never anchor/moor with the cb in the down position for this reason. Joe M17 Seafrog #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ellsworth To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Hi Gary! I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive. At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Trailering my M15 up and down the East coast I became convinced that trailing vibration is what moves the pin out. I tried 5200 as well and did not check it after a long tow. Lost the board entirely 15 miles offshore (1/2 way to Nantucket from Hyannis, MA. It's a good thing that the M15 sails reasonably well without the board. It turns out my pin was not original and was slighty longer than the one from the factory. I ground mine down about1/8 inch and used epoxy to seal it. I have not had a problem since. Thanks Doug Kelch M15 #310 G "Seas the Day" ________________________________ From: Jim Ellsworth <j_ellsworth@earthlink.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 7:56:26 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Good Advice Joe, After spreading some 5200 over the hole and having it poke through, I put a second coat on and only put the centerboard down sailing upwind. This seemed to work until I noticed the pin hanging out after my trip to Havasu (6 hr. drive + 3 days in the water). Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:22 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem I saw something not too long ago that cautioned keel/cb owners to never, never anchor/moor with the cb in the down position for this reason. Joe M17 Seafrog #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ellsworth To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Hi Gary! I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive. At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Thanks for the information Doug, as I said in my last post I did not pay attention before launching so even in the San Juan's it may have started working its way out during the 25-30 hours on the road and I didn't notice it. If epoxy worked for you I may give that a try before I spend a day under the boat grinding and glassing. Jim M-17 #603 Grace -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Doug Kelch Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Trailering my M15 up and down the East coast I became convinced that trailing vibration is what moves the pin out. I tried 5200 as well and did not check it after a long tow. Lost the board entirely 15 miles offshore (1/2 way to Nantucket from Hyannis, MA. It's a good thing that the M15 sails reasonably well without the board. It turns out my pin was not original and was slighty longer than the one from the factory. I ground mine down about1/8 inch and used epoxy to seal it. I have not had a problem since. Thanks Doug Kelch M15 #310 G "Seas the Day" ________________________________ From: Jim Ellsworth <j_ellsworth@earthlink.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 7:56:26 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Good Advice Joe, After spreading some 5200 over the hole and having it poke through, I put a second coat on and only put the centerboard down sailing upwind. This seemed to work until I noticed the pin hanging out after my trip to Havasu (6 hr. drive + 3 days in the water). Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:22 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem I saw something not too long ago that cautioned keel/cb owners to never, never anchor/moor with the cb in the down position for this reason. Joe M17 Seafrog #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ellsworth To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Hi Gary! I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive. At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
I had the same problem for awhile with my M17. I would check the pin when I stopped for gas and sometimes would find the pin hanging part way out. It looked like when the boat was on the trailer the cb was being pushed up a bit into the trunk which took the weight off the pin which was then allowed to rattle loose with vibrations. The first time I saw the problem was at a gas station halfway through a long trip. For a stop-gap measure, I taped over both holes and it worked for the rest of that trip. When back home I had both sides epoxied and that seems to have stopped the problem. John Edwards M17 # 372 Miss T -----Original Message----- From: Doug Kelch <doug_kelch@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, Feb 27, 2010 10:56 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Trailering my M15 up and down the East coast I became convinced that trailing vibration is what moves the pin out. I tried 5200 as well and did not check it after a long tow. Lost the board entirely 15 miles offshore (1/2 way to Nantucket from Hyannis, MA. It's a good thing that the M15 sails reasonably well without the board. It turns out my pin was not original and was slighty longer than the one from the factory. I ground mine down about1/8 inch and used epoxy to seal it. I have not had a problem since. Thanks Doug Kelch M15 #310 G "Seas the Day" ________________________________ From: Jim Ellsworth <j_ellsworth@earthlink.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 7:56:26 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Good Advice Joe, After spreading some 5200 over the hole and having it poke through, I put a second coat on and only put the centerboard down sailing upwind. This seemed to work until I noticed the pin hanging out after my trip to Havasu (6 hr. drive + 3 days in the water). Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:22 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem I saw something not too long ago that cautioned keel/cb owners to never, never anchor/moor with the cb in the down position for this reason. Joe M17 Seafrog #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ellsworth To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Hi Gary! I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive. At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out
at
the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way
out. I
have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps
pushing
through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed
over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve
it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth
M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message-----
From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Ellsworth
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM
To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'
Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the
track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is
a
Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider
Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing
tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either
side to
put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap
then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat
wall.
I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it
could
be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth
M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message-----
From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Larry E
Yake
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the
companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move
your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail,
but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes
in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also
recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the
cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core,
and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy,
Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was
through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the
cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by
squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood.
I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the
track
location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the
woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one.
Tom Jenkins
M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988
model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a
fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of
fiberglass is
as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly
3/16
thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the
bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat
and
resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness
of
the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid
fiberglass
to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the
same
thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to
re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a
bit
over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward
floor
of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and
by
tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity
of
penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several
cinder
blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson
learned
is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are
machine
thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub
with
some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took
the
opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward
about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit
forward
of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the
mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical
advantage by
moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1
purchase.
The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked
great.
Randy Graves
M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net>
wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car
setup
on my
2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody
know
what the
present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install
the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on
3-15/16"
centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track
at 4"
centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement
faulty? (My
boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure).
Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins
Scintilla
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
John, Just wondering if the pin is bonded to the board and rotates in a sleeve, or if the pin is supposed to be immobile, and the board rotates on the pin. Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 #626 Scintilla On Feb 27, 2010, at 2:13 PM, saltm17@aol.com wrote:
I had the same problem for awhile with my M17. I would check the pin when I stopped for gas and sometimes would find the pin hanging part way out. It looked like when the boat was on the trailer the cb was being pushed up a bit into the trunk which took the weight off the pin which was then allowed to rattle loose with vibrations. The first time I saw the problem was at a gas station halfway through a long trip. For a stop-gap measure, I taped over both holes and it worked for the rest of that trip. When back home I had both sides epoxied and that seems to have stopped the problem.
John Edwards M17 # 372 Miss T
-----Original Message----- From: Doug Kelch <doug_kelch@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, Feb 27, 2010 10:56 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Trailering my M15 up and down the East coast I became convinced that trailing
vibration is what moves the pin out.
I tried 5200 as well and did not check it after a long tow. Lost the board
entirely 15 miles offshore (1/2 way to Nantucket from Hyannis, MA. It's a good
thing that the M15 sails reasonably well without the board.
It turns out my pin was not original and was slighty longer than the one from
the factory. I ground mine down about1/8 inch and used epoxy to seal it.
I have not had a problem since.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
M15 #310 G
"Seas the Day"
________________________________
From: Jim Ellsworth <j_ellsworth@earthlink.net>
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 7:56:26 AM
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Good Advice Joe,
After spreading some 5200 over the hole and having it poke through, I put a
second coat on and only put the centerboard down sailing upwind. This seemed
to work until I noticed the pin hanging out after my trip to Havasu (6 hr.
drive + 3 days in the water).
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe
Murphy
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:22 AM
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
I saw something not too long ago that cautioned keel/cb owners to never,
never anchor/moor with the cb in the down position for this reason.
Joe
M17 Seafrog #651
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Ellsworth
To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Hi Gary!
I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that
worked
it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I
don't
think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive.
At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and
fill
with some matt and glass as Sean did.
-----Original Message-----
From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M
Hyde
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Jim:
Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the
pin
and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one
might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that
the
board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should
reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin
the
help assure it won't come out.
--Gary Hyde
2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out
at
the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way
out.
I
have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps
pushing
through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed
over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve
it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth
M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message-----
From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Ellsworth
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM
To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'
Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the
track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is
a
Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider
Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing
tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either
side
to
put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap
then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat
wall.
I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it
could
be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth
M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message-----
From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Larry
E
Yake
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the
companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move
your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail,
but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes
in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also
recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the
cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core,
and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy,
Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was
through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the
cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by
squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood.
I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the
track
location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the
woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one.
Tom Jenkins
M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988
model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a
fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of
fiberglass is
as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly
3/16
thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the
bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat
and
resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness
of
the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid
fiberglass
to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the
same
thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to
re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a
bit
over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward
floor
of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and
by
tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity
of
penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several
cinder
blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson
learned
is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are
machine
thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub
with
some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took
the
opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward
about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit
forward
of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the
mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical
advantage by
moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1
purchase.
The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked
great.
Randy Graves
M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net>
wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car
setup
on my
2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody
know
what the
present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install
the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on
3-15/16"
centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track
at 4"
centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement
faulty? (My
boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure).
Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins
Scintilla
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Tom.... The pin is fixed and the board rotates around it. The pin is 3/8 inch stainless steel smooth rod stock. 5200 will work to keep it in but it has to be clean first. Epoxy is another solution. After 5200 or epoxy, be sure to squeegee a coat over the outside hole and let dry. (3 days for 5200) Trailering vibration has an effect on pin movement. When trailering long distance a square of Duct Tape over each hole might be a good idea. I like Bert's solution as well; if you do the bottom, follow his advice. We sure had a good time at Havasu...!!..... Bob Eeg www.montgomeryboats.com www.norseayachts.com (949) 489-8227
From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:22:48 -0800 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
John, Just wondering if the pin is bonded to the board and rotates in a sleeve, or if the pin is supposed to be immobile, and the board rotates on the pin. Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 #626 Scintilla
On Feb 27, 2010, at 2:13 PM, saltm17@aol.com wrote:
I had the same problem for awhile with my M17. I would check the pin when I stopped for gas and sometimes would find the pin hanging part way out. It looked like when the boat was on the trailer the cb was being pushed up a bit into the trunk which took the weight off the pin which was then allowed to rattle loose with vibrations. The first time I saw the problem was at a gas station halfway through a long trip. For a stop-gap measure, I taped over both holes and it worked for the rest of that trip. When back home I had both sides epoxied and that seems to have stopped the problem.
John Edwards M17 # 372 Miss T
I did the same on my M-15 a few years ago. I did the waterproof tube first after removing the CB and pin of course. I enlarged the SS pin to 5/8". Ground down the pin shy 1/8 each side, glassed it all over both sides, Done! With the matching Perfection 2 part epoxy, it is not a bad job for an amateur. Cream was the color and the Perfection epoxy was a perfect match. ----Larry in Sacramento (Thanks to Morrison Marine for doing the CB pull out and replacement CB from Bob E.) -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Doug Kelch Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Trailering my M15 up and down the East coast I became convinced that trailing vibration is what moves the pin out. I tried 5200 as well and did not check it after a long tow. Lost the board entirely 15 miles offshore (1/2 way to Nantucket from Hyannis, MA. It's a good thing that the M15 sails reasonably well without the board. It turns out my pin was not original and was slighty longer than the one from the factory. I ground mine down about1/8 inch and used epoxy to seal it. I have not had a problem since. Thanks Doug Kelch M15 #310 G "Seas the Day" ________________________________ From: Jim Ellsworth <j_ellsworth@earthlink.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 7:56:26 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Good Advice Joe, After spreading some 5200 over the hole and having it poke through, I put a second coat on and only put the centerboard down sailing upwind. This seemed to work until I noticed the pin hanging out after my trip to Havasu (6 hr. drive + 3 days in the water). Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:22 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem I saw something not too long ago that cautioned keel/cb owners to never, never anchor/moor with the cb in the down position for this reason. Joe M17 Seafrog #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ellsworth To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Hi Gary! I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive. At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
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This may be a dumb question, but with all the epoxying, fiberglassing and otherwise immobilizing the centerboard pin, how do you all plan on getting that pin out? I have not had the problem you all have had, and I was quite thankful last summer that no one had epoxied over the CB pin when I had to take it out to fix and fiberglass my keel! Why not just use a lock washer and/or locknut? I feel I must be missing something... On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Hughston, Larry <Larry.Hughston@dgs.ca.gov>wrote:
I did the same on my M-15 a few years ago. I did the waterproof tube first after removing the CB and pin of course. I enlarged the SS pin to 5/8". Ground down the pin shy 1/8 each side, glassed it all over both sides, Done! With the matching Perfection 2 part epoxy, it is not a bad job for an amateur. Cream was the color and the Perfection epoxy was a perfect match.
----Larry in Sacramento (Thanks to Morrison Marine for doing the CB pull out and replacement CB from Bob E.)
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Doug Kelch Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Trailering my M15 up and down the East coast I became convinced that trailing vibration is what moves the pin out.
I tried 5200 as well and did not check it after a long tow. Lost the board entirely 15 miles offshore (1/2 way to Nantucket from Hyannis, MA. It's a good thing that the M15 sails reasonably well without the board.
It turns out my pin was not original and was slighty longer than the one from the factory. I ground mine down about1/8 inch and used epoxy to seal it.
I have not had a problem since.
Thanks
Doug Kelch M15 #310 G "Seas the Day"
________________________________ From: Jim Ellsworth <j_ellsworth@earthlink.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 7:56:26 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Good Advice Joe,
After spreading some 5200 over the hole and having it poke through, I put a second coat on and only put the centerboard down sailing upwind. This seemed to work until I noticed the pin hanging out after my trip to Havasu (6 hr. drive + 3 days in the water).
Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:22 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
I saw something not too long ago that cautioned keel/cb owners to never, never anchor/moor with the cb in the down position for this reason. Joe M17 Seafrog #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ellsworth To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Hi Gary!
I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive.
At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out.
--Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
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-- Chris
A question for Bob Eeg. Did Willie on Strawanza ever have any CB pin problems?? BTW, where is Willie?? Joe
Jim: I forgot to mention that I pull up the centerboard when I'm docked because otherwise it rattles; so you could be right that that is when the pin worked loose. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Feb 26, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Hi Gary!
I think in the San Juan's it was sitting in the slip/anchor/dock that worked it loose, but good point you bring up about the trailer to be honest I don't think I have inspected it prior to launching after a long drive.
At any rate I think I will probably grind out a little indentation and fill with some matt and glass as Sean did.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gary M Hyde Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
Jim: Vince and Sharon Himsl had that pin problem on their M15 and knurled the pin and I think glued it in. I haven't had the problem but am wondering if one might best lower the board down onto the trailer (and re-cleat) so that the board doesn't rattle around as much during the trailering. That should reduce the motion that tends to work the pin out. I did calk over my pin the help assure it won't come out.
--Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Ok another issue:
This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out at the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way out. I have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps pushing through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve it.
Thanks!
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
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Hello... I used a Garhauer traveler for the mainsheet relo on my 1978 M-17 Seranita. I removed the old one from the forward cockpit. I measured about 18" aft and drilled the appropriate holes. I mounted a hard plastic backing plate under the cockpit floor using 3M 5200 to bond and a bottle jack enabled me to affix it to the underside of the cockpit floor while I affixed it with through bolts from the upper side. To fill the holes from the original track, I taped under the cockpit floor so that I had a "bottom" and then drizzled epoxy into each hole. The method worked perfectly and I went back afterward and painted the entire cockpit floor and you could not tell the original was ever there. Here is a photo album of the process: http://s912.photobucket.com/albums/ac329/1986catalina18/Seranita%20Traveler% 20Installation/ I have since sold Seranita and am underway on restoration of a 1986 Catalina Capri 18. I loved the boat and really enjoyed lurking about on this email list. I only regret that there was not more support for an enhanced M17 website where users could log in project modification information such as this that would benefit all Montgomery owners. I cataloged all the mods I did but had nowhere to go with them. Best to All! JB -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track Another Option, I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor. Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track Tom, When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem. Larry Y On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hi Joe, The Garhauer system looks like a reasonable alternative to the Harken, and your pictures give a nice guide. Does the system fit on a standard T-track with alternate mounting and stop holes spaced two inches, or do they use a special track" Thanks, Tom Jenkins On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:05 PM, Joe Balla wrote:
Hello...
I used a Garhauer traveler for the mainsheet relo on my 1978 M-17 Seranita. I removed the old one from the forward cockpit. I measured about 18" aft and drilled the appropriate holes. I mounted a hard plastic backing plate under the cockpit floor using 3M 5200 to bond and a bottle jack enabled me to affix it to the underside of the cockpit floor while I affixed it with through bolts from the upper side.
To fill the holes from the original track, I taped under the cockpit floor so that I had a "bottom" and then drizzled epoxy into each hole. The method worked perfectly and I went back afterward and painted the entire cockpit floor and you could not tell the original was ever there.
Here is a photo album of the process: http://s912.photobucket.com/albums/ac329/1986catalina18/Seranita% 20Traveler% 20Installation/
I have since sold Seranita and am underway on restoration of a 1986 Catalina Capri 18. I loved the boat and really enjoyed lurking about on this email list. I only regret that there was not more support for an enhanced M17 website where users could log in project modification information such as this that would benefit all Montgomery owners. I cataloged all the mods I did but had nowhere to go with them.
Best to All! JB
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Another Option,
I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is a Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either side to put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat wall. I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it could be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry E Yake Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track
Tom,
When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem.
Larry Y
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
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I second Larry's suggestion for plugging with epoxy. The epoxy plug not only helps eliminate the water intrusion into the wood core but equally important if you use this approach when attaching new hardware, you eliminate compressing the deck/coach roof. Check out the March/April issue of Good Old Boat for a good article on this subject. Joe M17 Seagray #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry E Yake To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track Tom, When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, and also prevent the compression problem. Larry Y On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> writes:
Hi Randy, Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down
hard enough to compress the wood. I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the track location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and
the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than
an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. Tom Jenkins M17 #626
On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of fiberglass is as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly 3/16 thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat and resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness of the sandwich is just less than 1".
Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid fiberglass to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the same thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a bit over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward floor of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and by tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity of penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several cinder blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson learned is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are machine thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub with some bedding compound and you are good-to-go!
Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took the opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit forward of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical advantage by moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 purchase. The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked great.
Randy Graves M17 #410
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when
I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance.
Tom Jenkins Scintilla _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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participants (14)
-
Bob From California -
Chris Smith -
doug henning -
Doug Kelch -
Gary M Hyde -
Hughston, Larry -
Jim Ellsworth -
Joe Balla -
Joe Murphy -
Larry E Yake -
R.K.Graves -
robbin roddewig -
saltm17＠aol.com -
Tom Jenkins