I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in saltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the resulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in excess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch M15 G" #310 "Seas the Day"
I'll disagree with you on aluminum rivits, Doug. Stainless are way stronger, pull much tigjhter, and last longer. On the M-10's we started out using aluminum rivits to fasten down the sail track. After a rew years in salt water, they would go ZIP and totally come off. The only thing I use them for now is fasten ing down the small plastic clamcleats, which will crack from stainless because of the increased pressure. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "douglas kelch" <doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: "Montgomery" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:41 AM Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets?
I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets.
I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in saltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the resulting larger hole was not useable.
I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in excess of the need on small boats like ours.
There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets.
Am I wrong here?
Thanks
Doug Kelch M15 G" #310 "Seas the Day"
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6339 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
Jerry, Thanks for the FYI. I bought a new mast for my M-10 and used aluminum rivets to attach the sail track. I guess I know what I'll be doing later this summer!! Spraying new gel coat and new rivits. Skip -----Original Message----- From: jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 2:50 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I'll disagree with you on aluminum rivits, Doug. Stainless are way tronger, pull much tigjhter, and last longer. On the M-10's we started out using aluminum rivits to fasten down the sail rack. After a rew years in salt water, they would go ZIP and totally come ff. The only thing I use them for now is fasten ing down the small plastic lamcleats, which will crack from stainless because of the increased ressure. jerry ---- Original Message ----- rom: "douglas kelch" <doug1kelch@gmail.com> o: "Montgomery" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> ent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:41 AM ubject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in saltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the resulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in excess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch M15 G" #310 "Seas the Day" - am using the free version of SPAMfighter. e are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. PAMfighter has removed 6339 of my spam emails to date. et the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
I've used both aluminum pop rivets and SS tapped bolts. I tend to use SS tapped in bolts for things that pull perpendicular or have a pretty good load, such as the boom vang. When I use SS against aluminum I coat the SS piece in TefGel. It forms the barrier needed to ward off the corrosion. So far, so good. I can definitely tell where I've used TefGel and where I forgot to use it. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: douglas kelch To: Montgomery Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 1:41 PM Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in saltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the resulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in excess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch M15 G" #310 "Seas the Day"
I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day"
Early Mexico racing dirty trick #1: In the mid-70-s, When Jerry and Tom Van Atta would race Jerry's most current go-fast in Guaymas... I remember a race when Jerry and Tom were racing side by side with a guy named Neal Clark in another one of Jerry's boats. At one critical point in the dual, one of the "perps" threw a handful of broken pop rivets at the competitor's sail. As the broken pop rivets began to rain down on the deck and as the sailors realized what they were seeing, they became convinced that the rig was coming apart and broke off the competition to investigate. The offending boat then sped on ahead and won the race. This proves that there is always a good use for pop rivets - and that the race is not always to the swift, but sometimes to the crafty. John in Tucson. ---------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eisenee <eisenee@aol.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:26 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day"
It did distract them for awhile! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <jslubliner@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 8:18 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Early Mexico racing dirty trick #1: In the mid-70-s, When Jerry and Tom Van Atta would race Jerry's most current go-fast in Guaymas... I remember a race when Jerry and Tom were racing side by side with a guy named Neal Clark in another one of Jerry's boats. At one critical point in the dual, one of the "perps" threw a handful of broken pop rivets at the competitor's sail. As the broken pop rivets began to rain down on the deck and as the sailors realized what they were seeing, they became convinced that the rig was coming apart and broke off the competition to investigate. The offending boat then sped on ahead and won the race. This proves that there is always a good use for pop rivets - and that the race is not always to the swift, but sometimes to the crafty. John in Tucson. ---------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eisenee <eisenee@aol.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:26 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day" -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6339 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
That's one of my masts, Eldor, and all the riveted stuff is held on with stainless! Another thing, most of your sailing is done on fresh water. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <eisenee@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 6:25 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day" -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6339 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
Except what I changed and added Eldor -----Original Message----- From: jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:57 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? That's one of my masts, Eldor, and all the riveted stuff is held on with tainless! Another thing, most of your sailing is done on fresh water. jerry ---- Original Message ----- rom: <eisenee@aol.com> o: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> ent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 6:25 PM ubject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years nd don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I ould rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the oom or mast. Eldor 17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- rom: douglas kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> o: Montgomery <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> ent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm ubject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in ltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the sulting larger hole was not useable. switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in cess of the need on small boats like ours. here does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. m I wrong here? hanks oug Kelch 5 G" #310 eas the Day" -- am using the free version of SPAMfighter. e are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. PAMfighter has removed 6339 of my spam emails to date. et the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
As with most things "marine", often times there are different products to use vs. something you find in a local hardware store. My choices for pop rivets......stainless or aluminum.......... are either Arrow, or the Ace Hardware store brand (likely the same thing). Is there a "marine" option for either that is better, and if so, what is the brand and source? On Apr 4, 2012, at 8:25 PM, eisenee@aol.com wrote:
I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast.
Eldor M17 Motu iti
-----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets?
I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day"
Hi Howard, I got the stainless rivets from West Marine but had to order a tool from Jamestown Distributors. I broke the Arrow rivet tool and one from Tractor Supply on the stainless. The standard tools at Home Depot and such are not sufficient for stainless (I proved it!) Robbin On 4/5/2012 6:59 AM, Howard Audsley wrote:
As with most things "marine", often times there are different products to use vs. something you find in a local hardware store.
My choices for pop rivets......stainless or aluminum.......... are either Arrow, or the Ace Hardware store brand (likely the same thing).
Is there a "marine" option for either that is better, and if so, what is the brand and source?
On Apr 4, 2012, at 8:25 PM, eisenee@aol.com wrote:
I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast.
Eldor M17 Motu iti
-----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch<doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: Montgomery<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets?
I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day"
Hi Doug, I am not a metalurgist or a boat builder but I did replace the rivets on my spreaders with stainless. I have some pictures and comments on my Picasa site https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23. My only comment would be that I have read the stainless is the way to go and based on the special tools I needed to get the pop rivets installed they are much much stronger. Happy gaff rig sailing! Robbin On 4/4/2012 1:41 PM, douglas kelch wrote:
I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets.
I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in saltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the resulting larger hole was not useable.
I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in excess of the need on small boats like ours.
There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets.
Am I wrong here?
Thanks
Doug Kelch M15 G" #310 "Seas the Day"
participants (8)
-
douglas kelch -
eisenee＠aol.com -
Howard Audsley -
jerry montgomery -
Joe Murphy -
jslubliner＠aol.com -
Robbin Roddewig -
wcampion＠aol.com