I assume it is...M17 #38 from 1974. Faded and/or chalking topsides, but kind of a creamy white where it's not been sun-exposed. I'll keep this product in mind, and, I'm filling the likes of 1/4" bolt holes with epoxy/silica so really just need a 'paint' type topcoat. thanks, John On 6/2/19 10:55 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:

John.

Is the gel coat the 'cream-ish' white like most of Jerry's boats? A close match is EVERCOAT Gel Coat Scratch Patch in 'buff' color.

:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019, 10:30 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

What does anyone here use for "paint" on top of resin, when you've done some kind of small resin/filler repair topsides, and need to cover it?

Mainly to protect the resin from UV, and, cover whatever color the resin/filler spots are with something at least vaguely matching your topside gelcoat or paint?

For example holes filled when moving cleats, tracks, etc. or replacing them with ones that have different mounting hole locations.

Jerry recently wrote: "I've done a bazillian repair jobs over the years... For nearly everything, polyurethane auto paint is far better than gel coat. It's WAY more UV resistant and therefore stays shinier longer and doesn't fade as much as re-sprayed gel and is much easier to apply."

Anyone tried this for small stuff like I'm talking about? A can of polyurethane spray paint from local auto parts store?

There are usually so many different shades available, I could probably get close to matching my faded-white-ish aged gelcoat.

thanks, John

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

John. EVERCOAT CO Gel Coat Scratch Patch is perfect for small jobs. Comes in a tiny tube and you dab over the fixes. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Sun, Jun 2, 2019, 11:35 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

I assume it is...M17 #38 from 1974. Faded and/or chalking topsides, but kind of a creamy white where it's not been sun-exposed. I'll keep this product in mind, and, I'm filling the likes of 1/4" bolt holes with epoxy/silica so really just need a 'paint' type topcoat.

thanks, John

On 6/2/19 10:55 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:

...

John.

Is the gel coat the 'cream-ish' white like most of Jerry's boats? A close match is EVERCOAT Gel Coat Scratch Patch in 'buff' color.

:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019, 10:30 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

What does anyone here use for "paint" on top of resin, when you've done some kind of small resin/filler repair topsides, and need to cover it?

Mainly to protect the resin from UV, and, cover whatever color the resin/filler spots are with something at least vaguely matching your topside gelcoat or paint?

For example holes filled when moving cleats, tracks, etc. or replacing them with ones that have different mounting hole locations.

Jerry recently wrote: "I've done a bazillian repair jobs over the years... For nearly everything, polyurethane auto paint is far better than gel coat. It's WAY more UV resistant and therefore stays shinier longer and doesn't fade as much as re-sprayed gel and is much easier to apply."

Anyone tried this for small stuff like I'm talking about? A can of polyurethane spray paint from local auto parts store?

There are usually so many different shades available, I could probably get close to matching my faded-white-ish aged gelcoat.

thanks, John

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Ok gentlemen , I purchased a 1975 Montgomery 17at an auction with trailer and a 3.9 Volvo outboard for $100.00 a couple of years ago and I am restoring it now it hasn't been in water for approximately 15 years first thing I did was took it to a carwash and spent$20.00 to clean it up. Came out looking pretty good. I'm in the process of redoing the keel . It had a nasty split in it so I cut out a section and put a coat of liquid aluminum on the led pellets after grinding that smooth I put a coat of body filler with fiberglass strands in it . Now I'm debating whether I should also put a layer of fiberglass matting on it or should I just put a coat of epoxy on it ? . On Sun, Jun 2, 2019, 11:44 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ve found Rustoleum “Canvas White” is a pretty good match. This is what I used when I rebuilt the transom on Monita.

Henry Monita 1979 M17 #310

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 12:30 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

What does anyone here use for "paint" on top of resin, when you've done some kind of small resin/filler repair topsides, and need to cover it?

Mainly to protect the resin from UV, and, cover whatever color the resin/filler spots are with something at least vaguely matching your topside gelcoat or paint?

For example holes filled when moving cleats, tracks, etc. or replacing them with ones that have different mounting hole locations.

Jerry recently wrote: "I've done a bazillian repair jobs over the years... For nearly everything, polyurethane auto paint is far better than gel coat. It's WAY more UV resistant and therefore stays shinier longer and doesn't fade as much as re-sprayed gel and is much easier to apply."

Anyone tried this for small stuff like I'm talking about? A can of polyurethane spray paint from local auto parts store?

There are usually so many different shades available, I could probably get close to matching my faded-white-ish aged gelcoat.

thanks, John

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone

This product is a fiberglass long strand is stronger than regular bondo, How ever it is not waterproof . so my question is do I gel coat it or use an epoxy paint to seal it .” total protect” has an epoxy primer 2 part system that claims it seal small cracks in the gel coat and seals out water. I have read posts on this and seems to be a lot of opinions on this so I am a little confused. Thanks for any in site on this Ed Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:10 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: #100 1975 Montgomery 17 Edwin. The ballast of your boat is steel. Actually the centers left over from making washers. First, before talking about what to do to finish the repair - What type of body filler? In general automotive filler isn't appropriate for boat use as it has to much talc and will absorb water. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 5:51 PM edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok gentlemen , I purchased a 1975 Montgomery 17at an auction with trailer and a 3.9 Volvo outboard for $100.00 a couple of years ago and I am restoring it now it hasn't been in water for approximately 15 years first thing I did was took it to a carwash and spent$20.00 to clean it up. Came out looking pretty good. I'm in the process of redoing the keel . It had a nasty split in it so I cut out a section and put a coat of liquid aluminum on the led pellets after grinding that smooth I put a coat of body filler with fiberglass strands in it . Now I'm debating whether I should also put a layer of fiberglass matting on it or should I just put a coat of epoxy on it ? .

Thanks for the tip, the damage is about half way up towards the front. I'm all for over kill! Sounds like a good plan to me. I know the material I used is pretty tough stuff but not water proof. I like the idea of over lay with fiberglass mat with epoxy. Then paint over it with epoxy paint then antifouling paint. Would that be good? On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 5:24 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

I'm not clear where the crack or split is - on the side somewhere, the bottom edge, front or rear edge?

Is your layer of bondo already flush with the surrounding keel? Or is there still some depth to fill?

If the latter, I'd fill the last bit with epoxy resin thickened with silica powder.

Then after underlying repairs and filling crack to flush with keel, I'd put a layer of light (e.g. 6 oz.) fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin over the whole area of crack/split repair, with at least 3" overlap onto undamaged keel material, which should be sanded down to underlying fiberglass/resin layup for good bonding of new material. This gives you the waterproofness of epoxy, with cloth for structural integrity of the epoxy, well overlapping whatever is underneath.

Saturate the cloth, then fill the weave, then sand smooth the whole area (without cutting into cloth weave! Just removing excess weave fill epoxy). Then feather the edges of the glass down to the surrounding keel surface.

Then after full epoxy cure time, whatever prep, primer and finish layers suit your situation - barrier coat and antifouling if you need it, or just some kind of appropriate finish paint. That stuff I know a lot less about.

I am generally of the "do it well, do it once" repair mindset so the above may seem like overkill, depending on the size and type of damage on your keel. For me it beats the alternative ("do it poorly, do it again").

There was some damage to my keel from a prior owner where the stop pin had been busted out on one side at some point. The 'repair' was a joke, they put a lot of caulk in there and maybe some hardware store epoxy and maybe some bondo too. Better they had never fixed it than to 'fix' it so badly. I spent at least as much maybe more time digging through and clearing out the crap repair job as I did rebuilding the area.

cheers, John

On 6/6/19 1:30 PM, edwin jenkins wrote:

...

This product is a fiberglass long strand is stronger than regular bondo, How ever it is not waterproof . so my question is do I gel coat it or use an epoxy paint to seal it .” total protect” has an epoxy primer 2 part system that claims it seal small cracks in the gel coat and seals out water. I have read posts on this and seems to be a lot of opinions on this so I am a little confused. Thanks for any in site on this Ed

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:10 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: #100 1975 Montgomery 17

Edwin.

The ballast of your boat is steel. Actually the centers left over from making washers.

First, before talking about what to do to finish the repair - What type of body filler? In general automotive filler isn't appropriate for boat use as it has to much talc and will absorb water.

:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 5:51 PM edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ok gentlemen , I purchased a 1975 Montgomery 17at an auction with trailer and a 3.9 Volvo outboard for $100.00 a couple of years ago and I am restoring it now it hasn't been in water for approximately 15 years first thing I did was took it to a carwash and spent$20.00 to clean it up. Came out looking pretty good. I'm in the process of redoing the keel . It had a nasty split in it so I cut out a section and put a coat of liquid aluminum on the led pellets after grinding that smooth I put a coat of body filler with fiberglass strands in it . Now I'm debating whether I should also put a layer of fiberglass matting on it or should I just put a coat of epoxy on it ? .

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Thanks On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 10:04 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

Yeah, see what others have to say about after the epoxy repair. I'm not so familiar with barrier coats and bottom paint and all that, have been learning a bit on this list.

You don't want to use fiberglass mat though, you want to use woven fiberglass cloth. Six ounce cloth should be fine, it's mostly to make the repaired area a uniform surface overlapping the undamaged area around it.

FWIW I have been using Raka brand epoxy for various boat stuff for some years now, seems good quality and a fair bit less pricey than the "big names" like System 3 and MAS and West Systems. Raka also sells cloth, fillers, other supplies. http://raka.com/

Duckworks sells Raka epoxy now also (as well as some System 3 products), and cloth, fillers, etc. https://www.duckworks.com/

cheers, John

On 6/6/19 6:36 PM, edwin jenkins wrote:

...

Thanks for the tip, the damage is about half way up towards the front. I'm all for over kill! Sounds like a good plan to me. I know the material I used is pretty tough stuff but not water proof. I like the idea of over lay with fiberglass mat with epoxy. Then paint over it with epoxy paint then antifouling paint. Would that be good?

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 5:24 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

I'm not clear where the crack or split is - on the side somewhere, the bottom edge, front or rear edge?

Is your layer of bondo already flush with the surrounding keel? Or is there still some depth to fill?

If the latter, I'd fill the last bit with epoxy resin thickened with silica powder.

Then after underlying repairs and filling crack to flush with keel, I'd put a layer of light (e.g. 6 oz.) fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin over the whole area of crack/split repair, with at least 3" overlap onto undamaged keel material, which should be sanded down to underlying fiberglass/resin layup for good bonding of new material. This gives you the waterproofness of epoxy, with cloth for structural integrity of the epoxy, well overlapping whatever is underneath.

Saturate the cloth, then fill the weave, then sand smooth the whole area (without cutting into cloth weave! Just removing excess weave fill epoxy). Then feather the edges of the glass down to the surrounding keel surface.

Then after full epoxy cure time, whatever prep, primer and finish layers suit your situation - barrier coat and antifouling if you need it, or just some kind of appropriate finish paint. That stuff I know a lot less about.

I am generally of the "do it well, do it once" repair mindset so the above may seem like overkill, depending on the size and type of damage on your keel. For me it beats the alternative ("do it poorly, do it again").

There was some damage to my keel from a prior owner where the stop pin had been busted out on one side at some point. The 'repair' was a joke, they put a lot of caulk in there and maybe some hardware store epoxy and maybe some bondo too. Better they had never fixed it than to 'fix' it so badly. I spent at least as much maybe more time digging through and clearing out the crap repair job as I did rebuilding the area.

cheers, John

On 6/6/19 1:30 PM, edwin jenkins wrote:

...

This product is a fiberglass long strand is stronger than regular bondo, How ever it is not waterproof . so my question is do I gel coat it or use an epoxy paint to seal it .” total protect” has an epoxy primer 2 part system that claims it seal small cracks in the gel coat and seals out water. I have read posts on this and seems to be a lot of opinions on this so I am a little confused. Thanks for any in site on this Ed

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:10 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: #100 1975 Montgomery 17

Edwin.

The ballast of your boat is steel. Actually the centers left over from making washers.

First, before talking about what to do to finish the repair - What type of body filler? In general automotive filler isn't appropriate for boat use as it has to much talc and will absorb water.

:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 5:51 PM edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ok gentlemen , I purchased a 1975 Montgomery 17at an auction with trailer and a 3.9 Volvo outboard for $100.00 a couple of years ago and I am restoring it now it hasn't been in water for approximately 15 years first thing I did was took it to a carwash and spent$20.00 to clean it up. Came out looking pretty good. I'm in the process of redoing the keel . It had a nasty split in it so I cut out a section and put a coat of liquid aluminum on the led pellets after grinding that smooth I put a coat of body filler with fiberglass strands in it . Now I'm debating whether I should also put a layer of fiberglass matting on it or should I just put a coat of epoxy on it ? .

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Hi Peter, I live in Richland, WA. We also have nothing for not service. My M23 is getting repairs right now in Portland, OR at a place called Schooner Creek Boat Yard. They have good service and reviews. I’ll let you know how my repairs turn out. Remember that you get what you pay for with service. I think that may be your best choice. Gerry

On Jun 7, 2019, at 5:45 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:

Hi: All this talk about hull repairs and other things going wrong has me thinking. Except for Ruddercraft, Boise doesn’t have too many services for sailboats. It’s kind of a desert, so to speak, for sailboat repairs and maintenance. And, I’m not a handyman when it comes to fixing things. Where would be the closest place for me to get service. One thing coming up is a new line for my centerboard. Thanks everyone,

Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)

outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors

"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.

...

On Jun 7, 2019, at 5:57 AM, edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks

...

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 10:04 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

Yeah, see what others have to say about after the epoxy repair. I'm not so familiar with barrier coats and bottom paint and all that, have been learning a bit on this list.

You don't want to use fiberglass mat though, you want to use woven fiberglass cloth. Six ounce cloth should be fine, it's mostly to make the repaired area a uniform surface overlapping the undamaged area around it.

FWIW I have been using Raka brand epoxy for various boat stuff for some years now, seems good quality and a fair bit less pricey than the "big names" like System 3 and MAS and West Systems. Raka also sells cloth, fillers, other supplies. http://raka.com/

Duckworks sells Raka epoxy now also (as well as some System 3 products), and cloth, fillers, etc. https://www.duckworks.com/

cheers, John

...

On 6/6/19 6:36 PM, edwin jenkins wrote: Thanks for the tip, the damage is about half way up towards the front. I'm all for over kill! Sounds like a good plan to me. I know the material I used is pretty tough stuff but not water proof. I like the idea of over lay with fiberglass mat with epoxy. Then paint over it with epoxy paint then antifouling paint. Would that be good?

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 5:24 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

I'm not clear where the crack or split is - on the side somewhere, the bottom edge, front or rear edge?

Is your layer of bondo already flush with the surrounding keel? Or is there still some depth to fill?

If the latter, I'd fill the last bit with epoxy resin thickened with silica powder.

Then after underlying repairs and filling crack to flush with keel, I'd put a layer of light (e.g. 6 oz.) fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin over the whole area of crack/split repair, with at least 3" overlap onto undamaged keel material, which should be sanded down to underlying fiberglass/resin layup for good bonding of new material. This gives you the waterproofness of epoxy, with cloth for structural integrity of the epoxy, well overlapping whatever is underneath.

Saturate the cloth, then fill the weave, then sand smooth the whole area (without cutting into cloth weave! Just removing excess weave fill epoxy). Then feather the edges of the glass down to the surrounding keel surface.

Then after full epoxy cure time, whatever prep, primer and finish layers suit your situation - barrier coat and antifouling if you need it, or just some kind of appropriate finish paint. That stuff I know a lot less about.

I am generally of the "do it well, do it once" repair mindset so the above may seem like overkill, depending on the size and type of damage on your keel. For me it beats the alternative ("do it poorly, do it again").

There was some damage to my keel from a prior owner where the stop pin had been busted out on one side at some point. The 'repair' was a joke, they put a lot of caulk in there and maybe some hardware store epoxy and maybe some bondo too. Better they had never fixed it than to 'fix' it so badly. I spent at least as much maybe more time digging through and clearing out the crap repair job as I did rebuilding the area.

cheers, John

...

On 6/6/19 1:30 PM, edwin jenkins wrote: This product is a fiberglass long strand is stronger than regular bondo, How ever it is not waterproof . so my question is do I gel coat it or use an epoxy paint to seal it .” total protect” has an epoxy primer 2 part system that claims it seal small cracks in the gel coat and seals out water. I have read posts on this and seems to be a lot of opinions on this so I am a little confused. Thanks for any in site on this Ed

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:10 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: #100 1975 Montgomery 17

Edwin.

The ballast of your boat is steel. Actually the centers left over from making washers.

First, before talking about what to do to finish the repair - What type of body filler? In general automotive filler isn't appropriate for boat use as it has to much talc and will absorb water.

:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 5:51 PM edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok gentlemen , I purchased a 1975 Montgomery 17at an auction with trailer > and a 3.9 Volvo outboard for $100.00 a couple of years ago and I am > restoring it now it hasn't been in water for approximately 15 years first > thing I did was took it to a carwash and spent$20.00 to clean it up. Came > out looking pretty good. I'm in the process of redoing the keel . It had a > nasty split in it so I cut out a section and put a coat of liquid aluminum > on the led pellets after grinding that smooth I put a coat of body filler > with fiberglass strands in it . Now I'm debating whether I should also put > a layer of fiberglass matting on it or should I just put a coat of epoxy on > it ? . > > >

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

For below waterline applications you need products designed for full emersion. Many are not, like house paint and topside marine paints! Sealing your repair with epoxy is the best next step. This can be done using fiberglass and then fairing the keel to original shape. The bottom will need to be covered to protect the fiberglass and epoxy repair from UV (when boat out of the water). Bottom painting is one option. Choose a bottom paint that has good reports for antifoul success for your area. Each area finds different antifoul paints work better than others. Follow the chosen paint's steps for application over epoxy to the letter. If you don't follow the steps the paint will not stick! The other option is to gel coat - but you need to wait as the epoxy must be fully cured! This differs by product but most say at least a week. I'd at least double or triple the cure time. Once FULLY cured remove blush and then prep. Polyester gel coat doesn't like to stick to epoxy but with full cure and correct prep (ie, full sanding with absolutely no slippery spots left and removal of blush) it can be done. The negative is now you need to sand the gel coat smooth so it has no 'orange peel' (ie little bumpy from spraying or rolling) - this is not at all fun. So I recommend you antifoul the bottom as it will be faster and less work. You applied a aluminum product over steel. This will cause galvanic corrosion. Your best bet at is to seal the area as best as you can so it doesn't get wet. This will slow/limit the rusting. For this reason cover with an epoxy and then use a barrier coat (ex, Pettit Protect or Interlux 2000e) and then antifoul. If you use a Pettit paint use Protect and Interlux use 2000e. As I wrote above follow the instructions as they will define how to prep and how to overcoat. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 4:59 AM edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 10:04 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

Yeah, see what others have to say about after the epoxy repair. I'm not so familiar with barrier coats and bottom paint and all that, have been learning a bit on this list.

You don't want to use fiberglass mat though, you want to use woven fiberglass cloth. Six ounce cloth should be fine, it's mostly to make the repaired area a uniform surface overlapping the undamaged area around it.

FWIW I have been using Raka brand epoxy for various boat stuff for some years now, seems good quality and a fair bit less pricey than the "big names" like System 3 and MAS and West Systems. Raka also sells cloth, fillers, other supplies. http://raka.com/

Duckworks sells Raka epoxy now also (as well as some System 3 products), and cloth, fillers, etc. https://www.duckworks.com/

cheers, John

On 6/6/19 6:36 PM, edwin jenkins wrote:

...

Thanks for the tip, the damage is about half way up towards the front. I'm all for over kill! Sounds like a good plan to me. I know the material I used is pretty tough stuff but not water proof. I like the idea of over lay with fiberglass mat with epoxy. Then paint over it with epoxy paint then antifouling paint. Would that be good?

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 5:24 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

I'm not clear where the crack or split is - on the side somewhere, the bottom edge, front or rear edge?

Is your layer of bondo already flush with the surrounding keel? Or is there still some depth to fill?

If the latter, I'd fill the last bit with epoxy resin thickened with silica powder.

Then after underlying repairs and filling crack to flush with keel, I'd put a layer of light (e.g. 6 oz.) fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin over the whole area of crack/split repair, with at least 3" overlap onto undamaged keel material, which should be sanded down to underlying fiberglass/resin layup for good bonding of new material. This gives you the waterproofness of epoxy, with cloth for structural integrity of the epoxy, well overlapping whatever is underneath.

Saturate the cloth, then fill the weave, then sand smooth the whole area (without cutting into cloth weave! Just removing excess weave fill epoxy). Then feather the edges of the glass down to the surrounding keel surface.

Then after full epoxy cure time, whatever prep, primer and finish layers suit your situation - barrier coat and antifouling if you need it, or just some kind of appropriate finish paint. That stuff I know a lot less about.

I am generally of the "do it well, do it once" repair mindset so the above may seem like overkill, depending on the size and type of damage on your keel. For me it beats the alternative ("do it poorly, do it again").

There was some damage to my keel from a prior owner where the stop pin had been busted out on one side at some point. The 'repair' was a joke, they put a lot of caulk in there and maybe some hardware store epoxy and maybe some bondo too. Better they had never fixed it than to 'fix' it so badly. I spent at least as much maybe more time digging through and clearing out the crap repair job as I did rebuilding the area.

cheers, John

On 6/6/19 1:30 PM, edwin jenkins wrote:

...

This product is a fiberglass long strand is stronger than regular bondo, How ever it is not waterproof . so my question is do I gel coat it or use an epoxy paint to seal it .” total protect” has an epoxy primer 2 part system that claims it seal small cracks in the gel coat and seals out water. I have read posts on this and seems to be a lot of opinions on this so I am a little confused. Thanks for any in site on this Ed

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:10 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: #100 1975 Montgomery 17

Edwin.

The ballast of your boat is steel. Actually the centers left over from making washers.

First, before talking about what to do to finish the repair - What type of body filler? In general automotive filler isn't appropriate for boat use as it has to much talc and will absorb water.

:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 5:51 PM edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ok gentlemen , I purchased a 1975 Montgomery 17at an auction with trailer and a 3.9 Volvo outboard for $100.00 a couple of years ago and I am restoring it now it hasn't been in water for approximately 15 years first thing I did was took it to a carwash and spent$20.00 to clean it up. Came out looking pretty good. I'm in the process of redoing the keel . It had a nasty split in it so I cut out a section and put a coat of liquid aluminum on the led pellets after grinding that smooth I put a coat of body filler with fiberglass strands in it . Now I'm debating whether I should also put a layer of fiberglass matting on it or should I just put a coat of epoxy on it ? .

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Thanks for the corrections! The funny thing is that as a pastor I have multiple parishioners who work with this stuff all day. And one is the northeast regional rep for a composite company and has worked with NASA and the military in composites. Suppose I need to talk to them a bit more! Burton Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 6, 2019, at 4:30 PM, edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

This product is a fiberglass long strand is stronger than regular bondo, How ever it is not waterproof . so my question is do I gel coat it or use an epoxy paint to seal it .” total protect” has an epoxy primer 2 part system that claims it seal small cracks in the gel coat and seals out water. I have read posts on this and seems to be a lot of opinions on this so I am a little confused. Thanks for any in site on this Ed

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:10 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: #100 1975 Montgomery 17

Edwin.

The ballast of your boat is steel. Actually the centers left over from making washers.

First, before talking about what to do to finish the repair - What type of body filler? In general automotive filler isn't appropriate for boat use as it has to much talc and will absorb water.

:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/

...

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 5:51 PM edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok gentlemen , I purchased a 1975 Montgomery 17at an auction with trailer and a 3.9 Volvo outboard for $100.00 a couple of years ago and I am restoring it now it hasn't been in water for approximately 15 years first thing I did was took it to a carwash and spent$20.00 to clean it up. Came out looking pretty good. I'm in the process of redoing the keel . It had a nasty split in it so I cut out a section and put a coat of liquid aluminum on the led pellets after grinding that smooth I put a coat of body filler with fiberglass strands in it . Now I'm debating whether I should also put a layer of fiberglass matting on it or should I just put a coat of epoxy on it ? .

An aluminum filler over steel punchings? Wouldn't this act like a zinc and immediately start self-destructing when immersed in salt water or is it sealed in an epoxy base so this won't be a problem? Comment, Dave Scobie?

On Jun 5, 2019, at 5:50 PM, edwin jenkins <ejenkins1953@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok gentlemen , I purchased a 1975 Montgomery 17at an auction with trailer and a 3.9 Volvo outboard for $100.00 a couple of years ago and I am restoring it now it hasn't been in water for approximately 15 years first thing I did was took it to a carwash and spent$20.00 to clean it up. Came out looking pretty good. I'm in the process of redoing the keel . It had a nasty split in it so I cut out a section and put a coat of liquid aluminum on the led pellets after grinding that smooth I put a coat of body filler with fiberglass strands in it . Now I'm debating whether I should also put a layer of fiberglass matting on it or should I just put a coat of epoxy on it ? .

...

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019, 11:44 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ve found Rustoleum “Canvas White” is a pretty good match. This is what I used when I rebuilt the transom on Monita.

Henry Monita 1979 M17 #310

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 12:30 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

What does anyone here use for "paint" on top of resin, when you've done some kind of small resin/filler repair topsides, and need to cover it?

Mainly to protect the resin from UV, and, cover whatever color the resin/filler spots are with something at least vaguely matching your topside gelcoat or paint?

For example holes filled when moving cleats, tracks, etc. or replacing them with ones that have different mounting hole locations.

Jerry recently wrote: "I've done a bazillian repair jobs over the years... For nearly everything, polyurethane auto paint is far better than gel coat. It's WAY more UV resistant and therefore stays shinier longer and doesn't fade as much as re-sprayed gel and is much easier to apply."

Anyone tried this for small stuff like I'm talking about? A can of polyurethane spray paint from local auto parts store?

There are usually so many different shades available, I could probably get close to matching my faded-white-ish aged gelcoat.

thanks, John

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone

A couple comments... On 6/6/19 3:46 AM, Burton Lowry wrote: ...

Anyway, at this point you have so little money in the boat, I would suggest covering what is done with a good coating of epoxy with fiberglass cloth that is saturated with epoxy. There are lots of good tutorials on working with epoxy. If you are working on a vertical surface you will need to thicken the epoxy to keep it from running out of the cloth and repair area.

When you're laying on the cloth, no, do not thicken the resin. You only saturate the cloth itself with the resin and squeegee off/out any excess. Surface of cloth should be almost dry looking. When the resin is absorbed in the cloth itself, it is not going to run out. If you have resin running down/out then that is excess that should be squeegeed off. Thickening resin for this part of the process will reduce how quickly & fully it will saturate the cloth. For filling the cloth weave, after you've done the initial saturation and it has hardened beyond the "green" stage, you may consider thickening the resin for vertical surfaces. However a thin enough coat will not run, so you can just use several thin coats rather than trying to fill with one thick coat. Several thin coats will usually get to a level surface with less excess to sand off than trying to do one thick coat. You can find plenty of arguments about this on relevant forums... :-)

Gentle heat gets it to harden faster.

Also will reduce the final cure strength in most cases, trying to force the cure. It is a chemical cure not a solvent evaporation cure, there is no benefit and some downsides to rushing it. Use a resin and hardener combo designed for the temperature range you will be working in. You can add weave-filling thin coats before the prior coat is 100% cured (which is often several days or more in terms of the full chemical reaction). Read the details from your epoxy supplier manual as to re-coating and "final" cure times.

The fumes are poisonous, and skin becomes easily sensitized to it.

It's polyester/vinylester resin products that have toxic fumes right out of the can. Epoxy that is not solvent-diluted is basically inert and has no VOC (volatile organic compounds). If you heat it to try and force a cure you might generate some dangerous VOC, I don't know, I wouldn't heat it for reasons already given. The skin sensitivity issue is for real however, so always wear gloves when working with the material.

Each hardened layer of epoxy must have the amine blush removed with hot water and a scotch pad scrubbing.

Read the info from your epoxy supplier. In most cases recoating before full final cure time means there's no need to do this (because there is no amine blush yet). It's when you let it cure fully before recoating that you may get amine blush. Mostly this applies to the final layer of epoxy, which you must let fully cure before putting something else over it, and then prep properly as Burton says. There are some formulations with less blush than others, and some that claim to have eliminated it. There's tons of online info about all this, just search for example epoxy amine blush and get the full info from your product manufacturer. Happy fixin'! cheers, john -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com