Last one for now... I had been thinking about doing this and then found that Henry had done similar on Monita and it worked for him. So early this season I put these Ronstan swivel/cam blocks (attached pic) on the coaming in place of the fixed cam cleats (that were in place of the original jam cleats). Also switched to soft shackles for the jib sheet blocks (other attached pic). The swivel cams are great - tacking is soooooo much quicker and easier, like a dinghy with a jib (and given the agility of the M17 it is a good match - I never used the winches for anything but a wrap or two on the way to the previous cam cleat, so they were more in the way than useful). The soft shackles and light weight jib sheet blocks are also great - less mass to flog around when tacking or luffing the jib, and the soft shackles flex any direction without binding on the toe rail as metal ones sometimes do. The only improvement I will make at some point is a shallow but angled riser block under the swivel cams, to improve the working angle. For now they are just mounted flat on the coaming (with a sturdy aluminum backing plate), which means a bit of an upward angle into the cockpit, which is not optimal for working the sheets. Flat or very slightly down would be better. cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
So John, You haven't found with your new setup the need for the winch to take in that last bit of sheet with a full drawing 135 or larger jib? Or do you just luff a bit to slack the sail and then pull on the jamcleat? On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 1:19 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Last one for now...
I had been thinking about doing this and then found that Henry had done similar on Monita and it worked for him.
So early this season I put these Ronstan swivel/cam blocks (attached pic) on the coaming in place of the fixed cam cleats (that were in place of the original jam cleats).
Also switched to soft shackles for the jib sheet blocks (other attached pic).
The swivel cams are great - tacking is soooooo much quicker and easier, like a dinghy with a jib (and given the agility of the M17 it is a good match - I never used the winches for anything but a wrap or two on the way to the previous cam cleat, so they were more in the way than useful).
The soft shackles and light weight jib sheet blocks are also great - less mass to flog around when tacking or luffing the jib, and the soft shackles flex any direction without binding on the toe rail as metal ones sometimes do.
The only improvement I will make at some point is a shallow but angled riser block under the swivel cams, to improve the working angle. For now they are just mounted flat on the coaming (with a sturdy aluminum backing plate), which means a bit of an upward angle into the cockpit, which is not optimal for working the sheets. Flat or very slightly down would be better.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
The latter, yes - luff up a bit. I would do that before switching to the swivel cleats as well; then, the sheet went around winch and thru fixed cam cleat, so way more added friction than this new setup. I don't have a crew to winch in the jib sheets, and can't manage it alone while still minding the tiller! Maybe with self-tailing winches...still would be awkward, this is way simpler. cheers, John On 10/11/20 11:44 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
So John, You haven't found with your new setup the need for the winch to take in that last bit of sheet with a full drawing 135 or larger jib? Or do you just luff a bit to slack the sail and then pull on the jamcleat?
On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 1:19 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Last one for now...
I had been thinking about doing this and then found that Henry had done similar on Monita and it worked for him.
So early this season I put these Ronstan swivel/cam blocks (attached pic) on the coaming in place of the fixed cam cleats (that were in place of the original jam cleats).
Also switched to soft shackles for the jib sheet blocks (other attached pic).
The swivel cams are great - tacking is soooooo much quicker and easier, like a dinghy with a jib (and given the agility of the M17 it is a good match - I never used the winches for anything but a wrap or two on the way to the previous cam cleat, so they were more in the way than useful).
The soft shackles and light weight jib sheet blocks are also great - less mass to flog around when tacking or luffing the jib, and the soft shackles flex any direction without binding on the toe rail as metal ones sometimes do.
The only improvement I will make at some point is a shallow but angled riser block under the swivel cams, to improve the working angle. For now they are just mounted flat on the coaming (with a sturdy aluminum backing plate), which means a bit of an upward angle into the cockpit, which is not optimal for working the sheets. Flat or very slightly down would be better.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I have a similar set up with swivel cam cleats. I mounted mine aft of the winches. I rarely feel the need to use the winches, even with my 150. It is still possible to use them with the swivel cams. Just put a couple of wraps on the drum with the lazy sheet before tacking. Use the part of the sheet ahead of the cam cleat not the tail. The cam cleat serves as the sheet anchor after the winch, same as a horn cleat or clam cleat. I also mounted a pair of clam cleats aft of the swivels so I could skip them and use the traditional sheeting method (if I have a crew that wants grind winches!) The nice thing about the swivel cam cleats is that you can trim the leeward sheet from the windward side without moving from your comfy seat. Henry Monita On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 1:45 PM Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
So John, You haven't found with your new setup the need for the winch to take in that last bit of sheet with a full drawing 135 or larger jib? Or do you just luff a bit to slack the sail and then pull on the jamcleat?
On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 1:19 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Last one for now...
I had been thinking about doing this and then found that Henry had done similar on Monita and it worked for him.
So early this season I put these Ronstan swivel/cam blocks (attached pic) on the coaming in place of the fixed cam cleats (that were in place of the original jam cleats).
Also switched to soft shackles for the jib sheet blocks (other attached pic).
The swivel cams are great - tacking is soooooo much quicker and easier, like a dinghy with a jib (and given the agility of the M17 it is a good match - I never used the winches for anything but a wrap or two on the way to the previous cam cleat, so they were more in the way than useful).
The soft shackles and light weight jib sheet blocks are also great - less mass to flog around when tacking or luffing the jib, and the soft shackles flex any direction without binding on the toe rail as metal ones sometimes do.
The only improvement I will make at some point is a shallow but angled riser block under the swivel cams, to improve the working angle. For now they are just mounted flat on the coaming (with a sturdy aluminum backing plate), which means a bit of an upward angle into the cockpit, which is not optimal for working the sheets. Flat or very slightly down would be better.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
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participants (3)
-
Henry Rodriguez -
John Schinnerer -
Thomas Buzzi