Re: M_Boats: Why not hex head bolts?
Tyler, I agree with your position on the attention to detail, but believe that your C-22 was probably modified over the years by someone other than Catalina Yachts - - my family's business sold their products from 1967 to approx. 1998 and they delivered boats from the factory that were generally well fitted - not perfect (as in steel ballast in both models - M-Boats and C-22) but well done, as evidenced by the number of Catalina 22's built. A - bit of useless info - I was about 17 years old and working at the family boat dealership - commissioning a M-17 - I was interested in a condition I noticed, and asked my father "Why are ALL the screw heads aligned (slotted AND phillips) - My Fathers answer was - attention to detail -and from a practical point- you can easily monitor if they are getting 'loose' - plus "it looks cool". To this day I align fastener heads- on my boats and recently the 'tow truck'. All because of our buddy "HayFace" ! ! I like button head allen screws.... smooth and taking it one step crazier - the tools are even lighter and easier to carry! Have Fun, Go Sailing! GO In a message dated 4/20/2017 10:03:11 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, casioqv@usermail.com writes: I think the attention to detail is what makes M boats good overall... something like the choice of bolt heads doesn't make a huge difference by itself, but when the same attitude is applied to every detail of a boat, it makes an enormous difference. I learned to sail on a 1974 Catalina 22 I got on craigslist for $800. There were sharp exposed bolts on the cabin roof, and the deck everywhere... and I figured getting cut and bleeding all over the deck, and unsnagging sheets several times a day was a normal part of sailing, to be expected. It never happened once after switching to the M15, and I feel stupid for not just swapping out all the bolts. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Farrell" <msog@danf.us> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 5:04:46 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Why not hex head bolts? Thanks for this insight, Jerry. It's always nice to have the historical details. I'll go forward with the hex heads and see how much knuckle I skin. The gorilla tape is a great suggestion ( it just so happens I keep some in the boat anyway!). Had to chuckle at the windage point. I suppose attention to details like that is why you win races. With my new sails I'm hoping to outrun the Rhodes 19 ( it's already close and I don't have a Genoa yet) so if I get slower instead, I'll know what to blame :-P Dan Farrell M17 #301 jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
We used round heads whenever practical for several reasons, the biggest being that you are less likely to snag yourself on them when struggling to get somewhere else on the boat in heavy seas. Most would agree that they look a little better, and they are cleaner, with less weight and windage.
Some of these are admittedly picky things. Another reason that matters to some of us is that when racing in a drifter, we use 3/16 or 1/4 sheets, and these can snag on HH bolts.
None of these are big deals, and don't be afraid of HH's. Use Gorilla tape to hold the wrench in place!
-----Original Message----- From: Bob Eeg Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 6:33 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Why not hex head bolts?
Dan Hex head stainless bolts, stainless washers and stainless aircraft lock nuts are all we use. Go ahead and upgrade.
I am guessing round head slotted bolts are not standard and someone the last 35 years probably swapped out hardware and rebedded your chain plates.
Be well Bob Montgomery Boats. 949-489-8227
On 4/20/2017 12:59 PM, GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats wrote: Tyler, When we bought our Tripp-Lentsch in '66, G. deVries-Lentsch, the builder, was one of the top three European yards (the others were Abeking & Rasmussen and Camper Nicholson in the UK). They did a wonderful job, and had Fokker Aircraft Company as their consultant on the fiberglass work, but, ..... here and there you found the occasional flat head screw that had edges that hadn't been countersunk enough. The flat head screws also occasionally had a wire edge on the screw slot. Over time, I took care of all these minute problems. When you do that, you make it "your" boat, and you know every system and every item intimately. There are no unexpected surprises. Connie
Tyler,
I agree with your position on the attention to detail, but believe that your C-22 was probably modified over the years by someone other than Catalina Yachts - - my family's business sold their products from 1967 to approx. 1998 and they delivered boats from the factory that were generally well fitted - not perfect (as in steel ballast in both models - M-Boats and C-22) but well done, as evidenced by the number of Catalina 22's built.
A - bit of useless info - I was about 17 years old and working at the family boat dealership - commissioning a M-17 - I was interested in a condition I noticed, and asked my father "Why are ALL the screw heads aligned (slotted AND phillips) - My Fathers answer was - attention to detail -and from a practical point- you can easily monitor if they are getting 'loose' - plus "it looks cool". To this day I align fastener heads- on my boats and recently the 'tow truck'. All because of our buddy "HayFace" ! !
I like button head allen screws.... smooth and taking it one step crazier - the tools are even lighter and easier to carry!
Have Fun, Go Sailing! GO
In a message dated 4/20/2017 10:03:11 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, casioqv@usermail.com writes:
I think the attention to detail is what makes M boats good overall... something like the choice of bolt heads doesn't make a huge difference by itself, but when the same attitude is applied to every detail of a boat, it makes an enormous difference.
I learned to sail on a 1974 Catalina 22 I got on craigslist for $800. There were sharp exposed bolts on the cabin roof, and the deck everywhere... and I figured getting cut and bleeding all over the deck, and unsnagging sheets several times a day was a normal part of sailing, to be expected. It never happened once after switching to the M15, and I feel stupid for not just swapping out all the bolts.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Farrell" <msog@danf.us> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 5:04:46 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Why not hex head bolts?
Thanks for this insight, Jerry. It's always nice to have the historical details. I'll go forward with the hex heads and see how much knuckle I skin. The gorilla tape is a great suggestion ( it just so happens I keep some in the boat anyway!).
Had to chuckle at the windage point. I suppose attention to details like that is why you win races. With my new sails I'm hoping to outrun the Rhodes 19 ( it's already close and I don't have a Genoa yet) so if I get slower instead, I'll know what to blame :-P
Dan Farrell M17 #301
jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
We used round heads whenever practical for several reasons, the biggest being that you are less likely to snag yourself on them when struggling to get somewhere else on the boat in heavy seas. Most would agree that they look a little better, and they are cleaner, with less weight and windage.
Some of these are admittedly picky things. Another reason that matters to some of us is that when racing in a drifter, we use 3/16 or 1/4 sheets, and these can snag on HH bolts.
None of these are big deals, and don't be afraid of HH's. Use Gorilla tape to hold the wrench in place!
-----Original Message----- From: Bob Eeg Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 6:33 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Why not hex head bolts?
Dan Hex head stainless bolts, stainless washers and stainless aircraft lock nuts are all we use. Go ahead and upgrade.
I am guessing round head slotted bolts are not standard and someone the last 35 years probably swapped out hardware and rebedded your chain plates.
Be well Bob Montgomery Boats. 949-489-8227
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