A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in. Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.? Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-! cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
"nice day on the water"...??? On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 2:10 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in.
Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.?
Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-!
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring. Waves were WAY higher than the mast! ________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in? A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in. Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.? Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-! cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Jerry, In Lyn Pardey’s recent book about the first sea trials of Taleisin, they talk about landing in Cat harbor during identical conditions, in the same year. I think they were on the island with you! Sincerely, Tyler -----Original Message----- From: jerry <jmbn1@outlook.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John <john@eco-living.net> Date: Friday, 18 August 2023 7:55 AM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Re: What's the biggest wind you've been out in? A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring. Waves were WAY higher than the mast! ________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in? A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in. Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.? Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-! cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
That beats me! In San Francisco Bay summer winds regularly get over 20 knots in "the slot" around the Golden Gate Bridge. In wind vs. tide conditions the seas can get over 5' with steep breaking chop. With a fully reefed main and a slab reefing jib "Spirit" handled these conditions with winds gusting well into the 30's without trouble. It's a great place to build confidence because if everything goes to hell help is *usually* nearby. - Jim P. M17 "Spirit" On 8/18/2023 7:54 AM, jerry montgomery wrote:
A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring.
Waves were WAY higher than the mast!
________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in?
A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in.
Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.?
Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-!
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I absolutely love going out in 25-30 knot winds. 40 knot gusts is the highest I've been in. Storm jib and double reefed main. I don't get ocean size waves on my inland lake. The picture was taken just before I put the second reef in. On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 10:58 AM Jim Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
That beats me!
In San Francisco Bay summer winds regularly get over 20 knots in "the slot" around the Golden Gate Bridge. In wind vs. tide conditions the seas can get over 5' with steep breaking chop. With a fully reefed main and a slab reefing jib "Spirit" handled these conditions with winds gusting well into the 30's without trouble. It's a great place to build confidence because if everything goes to hell help is *usually* nearby.
- Jim P.
M17 "Spirit"
On 8/18/2023 7:54 AM, jerry montgomery wrote:
A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring.
Waves were WAY higher than the mast!
________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in?
A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in.
Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.?
Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-!
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Last year I was out in about 18mph w/ gusts > 25, and it was ... surprisingly stable with a storm jib and a single reef. This is a reassuring little boat! I have a new main on the way, and your stories have convinced me to ask them to put in a second reef. I'm hoping to get out on Superior next summer -- even if it's "just" the Apostle Islands. Things can change fast out there from what I hear, so it'll be good to have options. Somewhat relatedly, anyone spent time out on Rainy Lake? It's a "little" great lake of sorts. On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 11:43 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I absolutely love going out in 25-30 knot winds. 40 knot gusts is the highest I've been in. Storm jib and double reefed main. I don't get ocean size waves on my inland lake.
The picture was taken just before I put the second reef in.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 10:58 AM Jim Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
That beats me!
In San Francisco Bay summer winds regularly get over 20 knots in "the slot" around the Golden Gate Bridge. In wind vs. tide conditions the seas can get over 5' with steep breaking chop. With a fully reefed main and a slab reefing jib "Spirit" handled these conditions with winds gusting well into the 30's without trouble. It's a great place to build confidence because if everything goes to hell help is *usually* nearby.
- Jim P.
M17 "Spirit"
On 8/18/2023 7:54 AM, jerry montgomery wrote:
A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring.
Waves were WAY higher than the mast!
________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in?
A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in.
Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.?
Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-!
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- Jennifer Wood (she/her) Itinerant musician? Try the Guide to the Universe! https://www.buskersguidetotheuniverse.org/ https://buskersguide.org <http://buskersguide.org>
Timely subject. I was just out today in steady winds of 20+ with prolonged gusts of 30+ on Priest Lake in northern Idaho. One deep reef. Boat was solid, no problems. On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:53 PM Jennifer Wood < jennifer@buskersguidetotheuniverse.org> wrote:
Last year I was out in about 18mph w/ gusts > 25, and it was ... surprisingly stable with a storm jib and a single reef. This is a reassuring little boat!
I have a new main on the way, and your stories have convinced me to ask them to put in a second reef. I'm hoping to get out on Superior next summer -- even if it's "just" the Apostle Islands. Things can change fast out there from what I hear, so it'll be good to have options.
Somewhat relatedly, anyone spent time out on Rainy Lake? It's a "little" great lake of sorts.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 11:43 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I absolutely love going out in 25-30 knot winds. 40 knot gusts is the highest I've been in. Storm jib and double reefed main. I don't get ocean size waves on my inland lake.
The picture was taken just before I put the second reef in.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 10:58 AM Jim Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
That beats me!
In San Francisco Bay summer winds regularly get over 20 knots in "the slot" around the Golden Gate Bridge. In wind vs. tide conditions the seas can get over 5' with steep breaking chop. With a fully reefed main and a slab reefing jib "Spirit" handled these conditions with winds gusting well into the 30's without trouble. It's a great place to build confidence because if everything goes to hell help is *usually* nearby.
- Jim P.
M17 "Spirit"
On 8/18/2023 7:54 AM, jerry montgomery wrote:
A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring.
Waves were WAY higher than the mast!
________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in?
A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in.
Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.?
Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-!
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- Jennifer Wood (she/her)
Itinerant musician? Try the Guide to the Universe! https://www.buskersguidetotheuniverse.org/ https://buskersguide.org <http://buskersguide.org>
Yes, lots of wind in the Pacific Northwest right now. This brings up the subject of storm jibs in my mind. I have one that came with my boat, although I have never pulled it out of the bag (maybe I did once when I first got the boat.), I think I will this weekend though. My sail on the furling rig is a full sized genoa that can’t be removed other than by dropping the mast or climbing the mast. Does anyone rig up a storm jib separate from the furling system and how do they do that? Of course I can just reduce the area of the genoa sail with the furler but perhaps using a storm jib can be better in very strong winds. I believe Dave Scobie may have mentioned something about this in the past. Thanks in advance for any responses Jason Leckie Kuma M17 Point Roberts,WA/ Vancouver, BC On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:48 PM Larry Yake <larryyake@gmail.com> wrote:
Timely subject. I was just out today in steady winds of 20+ with prolonged gusts of 30+ on Priest Lake in northern Idaho. One deep reef. Boat was solid, no problems.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:53 PM Jennifer Wood < jennifer@buskersguidetotheuniverse.org> wrote:
Last year I was out in about 18mph w/ gusts > 25, and it was ... surprisingly stable with a storm jib and a single reef. This is a reassuring little boat!
I have a new main on the way, and your stories have convinced me to ask them to put in a second reef. I'm hoping to get out on Superior next summer -- even if it's "just" the Apostle Islands. Things can change fast out there from what I hear, so it'll be good to have options.
Somewhat relatedly, anyone spent time out on Rainy Lake? It's a "little" great lake of sorts.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 11:43 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I absolutely love going out in 25-30 knot winds. 40 knot gusts is the highest I've been in. Storm jib and double reefed main. I don't get ocean size waves on my inland lake.
The picture was taken just before I put the second reef in.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 10:58 AM Jim Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
That beats me!
In San Francisco Bay summer winds regularly get over 20 knots in "the slot" around the Golden Gate Bridge. In wind vs. tide conditions the seas can get over 5' with steep breaking chop. With a fully reefed main and a slab reefing jib "Spirit" handled these conditions with winds gusting well into the 30's without trouble. It's a great place to build confidence because if everything goes to hell help is *usually* nearby.
- Jim P.
M17 "Spirit"
On 8/18/2023 7:54 AM, jerry montgomery wrote:
A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring.
Waves were WAY higher than the mast!
________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in?
A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in.
Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.?
Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-!
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- Jennifer Wood (she/her)
Itinerant musician? Try the Guide to the Universe! https://www.buskersguidetotheuniverse.org/ https://buskersguide.org <http://buskersguide.org>
My solution, so far - I now have two furling/reefing jibs - the Genoa I got some years back (from Hyde) when I put the furler on, and a working jib that I got last year (from EP Sails). Reason being, what is now my "local" lake is usually too windy for a Genoa or even close to it. Most of the time I was sailing with it reefed more than makes any sense for that size jib. For typical "not crazy windy" conditions here, the working jib plus first reef in main is about right. If it pipes up more I can reef the jib as necessary. If it really pipes up, or I go out in higher winds on purpose, I might have 2nd reef in main and reefed working jib. Point being - it's a more appropriate and versatile combo for my typical local conditions. In theory I could change jibs on the water (CDI furler, so luff tape just slides in/out the extrusion slot). But it's a bit more complicated than with hank-ons, and there's no point really, day sailing on a lake. I find that the loss in speed from being slightly under-canvassed is minor (and, I'm not racing). I get enough thrills when the gusts come along and I'm just right or slightly over-canvassed for a few minutes. For those who haven't already read this here or elsewhere, the M17 with a masthead rig is jib-driven more than main-driven. So I typically reduce main sail first. As mentioned, first reef in main but full working jib is a typical combo for me, and then I can reef the jib a bit if needed. But if I'm radically reefing the jib, then it's time to put 2nd reef in main. It's not a storm jib equivalent, but I can reef the working jib down to a handkerchief if necessary. Also, knowing I'd be sailing often in gusty winds, I had it made of a wee bit heavier cloth than the default weight they would normally have used. cheers, John On 8/18/23 17:18, Jason Leckie wrote:
Yes, lots of wind in the Pacific Northwest right now.
This brings up the subject of storm jibs in my mind. I have one that came with my boat, although I have never pulled it out of the bag (maybe I did once when I first got the boat.), I think I will this weekend though.
My sail on the furling rig is a full sized genoa that can’t be removed other than by dropping the mast or climbing the mast. Does anyone rig up a storm jib separate from the furling system and how do they do that?
Of course I can just reduce the area of the genoa sail with the furler but perhaps using a storm jib can be better in very strong winds. I believe Dave Scobie may have mentioned something about this in the past.
Thanks in advance for any responses
Jason Leckie Kuma M17 Point Roberts,WA/ Vancouver, BC
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:48 PM Larry Yake <larryyake@gmail.com> wrote:
Timely subject. I was just out today in steady winds of 20+ with prolonged gusts of 30+ on Priest Lake in northern Idaho. One deep reef. Boat was solid, no problems.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:53 PM Jennifer Wood < jennifer@buskersguidetotheuniverse.org> wrote:
Last year I was out in about 18mph w/ gusts > 25, and it was ... surprisingly stable with a storm jib and a single reef. This is a reassuring little boat!
I have a new main on the way, and your stories have convinced me to ask them to put in a second reef. I'm hoping to get out on Superior next summer -- even if it's "just" the Apostle Islands. Things can change fast out there from what I hear, so it'll be good to have options.
Somewhat relatedly, anyone spent time out on Rainy Lake? It's a "little" great lake of sorts.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 11:43 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I absolutely love going out in 25-30 knot winds. 40 knot gusts is the highest I've been in. Storm jib and double reefed main. I don't get ocean size waves on my inland lake.
The picture was taken just before I put the second reef in.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 10:58 AM Jim Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
That beats me!
In San Francisco Bay summer winds regularly get over 20 knots in "the slot" around the Golden Gate Bridge. In wind vs. tide conditions the seas can get over 5' with steep breaking chop. With a fully reefed main and a slab reefing jib "Spirit" handled these conditions with winds gusting well into the 30's without trouble. It's a great place to build confidence because if everything goes to hell help is *usually* nearby.
- Jim P.
M17 "Spirit"
On 8/18/2023 7:54 AM, jerry montgomery wrote:
A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring.
Waves were WAY higher than the mast!
________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in?
A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in.
Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.?
Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-!
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- Jennifer Wood (she/her)
Itinerant musician? Try the Guide to the Universe! https://www.buskersguidetotheuniverse.org/ https://buskersguide.org <http://buskersguide.org>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks for your input John, I think your local lake is Siltcoos Lake near Florence, Oregon, any time I have been in that area I recall it blowing like stink so I can see why a Genoa might be too much sail in your area. Where I sail in Point Roberts and area it actually tends to be a pretty light wind area so usually the Genoa is about right. We have been getting some quite strong winds the last week or so so has made me think about that storm jib I have. I might still be good with just reducing the Genoa size by furling it in as needed, and reefing in the main as well as needed. Jason On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 6:20 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My solution, so far - I now have two furling/reefing jibs - the Genoa I got some years back (from Hyde) when I put the furler on, and a working jib that I got last year (from EP Sails).
Reason being, what is now my "local" lake is usually too windy for a Genoa or even close to it. Most of the time I was sailing with it reefed more than makes any sense for that size jib.
For typical "not crazy windy" conditions here, the working jib plus first reef in main is about right. If it pipes up more I can reef the jib as necessary. If it really pipes up, or I go out in higher winds on purpose, I might have 2nd reef in main and reefed working jib. Point being - it's a more appropriate and versatile combo for my typical local conditions.
In theory I could change jibs on the water (CDI furler, so luff tape just slides in/out the extrusion slot). But it's a bit more complicated than with hank-ons, and there's no point really, day sailing on a lake.
I find that the loss in speed from being slightly under-canvassed is minor (and, I'm not racing). I get enough thrills when the gusts come along and I'm just right or slightly over-canvassed for a few minutes.
For those who haven't already read this here or elsewhere, the M17 with a masthead rig is jib-driven more than main-driven. So I typically reduce main sail first. As mentioned, first reef in main but full working jib is a typical combo for me, and then I can reef the jib a bit if needed. But if I'm radically reefing the jib, then it's time to put 2nd reef in main.
It's not a storm jib equivalent, but I can reef the working jib down to a handkerchief if necessary. Also, knowing I'd be sailing often in gusty winds, I had it made of a wee bit heavier cloth than the default weight they would normally have used.
cheers, John
On 8/18/23 17:18, Jason Leckie wrote:
Yes, lots of wind in the Pacific Northwest right now.
This brings up the subject of storm jibs in my mind. I have one that came with my boat, although I have never pulled it out of the bag (maybe I did once when I first got the boat.), I think I will this weekend though.
My sail on the furling rig is a full sized genoa that can’t be removed other than by dropping the mast or climbing the mast. Does anyone rig up a storm jib separate from the furling system and how do they do that?
Of course I can just reduce the area of the genoa sail with the furler but perhaps using a storm jib can be better in very strong winds. I believe Dave Scobie may have mentioned something about this in the past.
Thanks in advance for any responses
Jason Leckie Kuma M17 Point Roberts,WA/ Vancouver, BC
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 4:48 PM Larry Yake <larryyake@gmail.com> wrote:
Timely subject. I was just out today in steady winds of 20+ with prolonged gusts of 30+ on Priest Lake in northern Idaho. One deep reef. Boat was solid, no problems.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:53 PM Jennifer Wood < jennifer@buskersguidetotheuniverse.org> wrote:
Last year I was out in about 18mph w/ gusts > 25, and it was ... surprisingly stable with a storm jib and a single reef. This is a reassuring little boat!
I have a new main on the way, and your stories have convinced me to ask them to put in a second reef. I'm hoping to get out on Superior next summer -- even if it's "just" the Apostle Islands. Things can change fast out there from what I hear, so it'll be good to have options.
Somewhat relatedly, anyone spent time out on Rainy Lake? It's a "little" great lake of sorts.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 11:43 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I absolutely love going out in 25-30 knot winds. 40 knot gusts is the highest I've been in. Storm jib and double reefed main. I don't get ocean size waves on my inland lake.
The picture was taken just before I put the second reef in.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 10:58 AM Jim Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
That beats me!
In San Francisco Bay summer winds regularly get over 20 knots in "the slot" around the Golden Gate Bridge. In wind vs. tide conditions the seas can get over 5' with steep breaking chop. With a fully reefed main and a slab reefing jib "Spirit" handled these conditions with winds gusting well into the 30's without trouble. It's a great place to build confidence because if everything goes to hell help is *usually* nearby.
- Jim P.
M17 "Spirit"
On 8/18/2023 7:54 AM, jerry montgomery wrote: > A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring. > > Waves were WAY higher than the mast! > > ________________________________ > From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> > Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in? > > A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to > chime in. > > Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on > their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out > a sail, etc.? > > Part of the reason I'm asking... > I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days > sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly > it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple > reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-! > > cheers, > John > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- Jennifer Wood (she/her)
Itinerant musician? Try the Guide to the Universe! https://www.buskersguidetotheuniverse.org/ https://buskersguide.org <http://buskersguide.org>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
These aren't exactly sailing stories, but more those other problems associated with wind and waves. This summer I went to Sucia Island from Bellingham on my M15 and it was fine, but I had to anchor at Lummi Island in a little kayak cove during a small craft advisory and I forgot my headlampand the cove had some cliffs which were very close to me all night...breaking and I kept imagining the anchor was dragging...and it wouldn't have to drag very far and I'd be hitting the rocks. I had a 13lb anchor and wouldn't have wanted it 1 oz lighter. Another problem I had was trying to get into a slip when the wind was blowing pretty good here at the local lake. I had dropped all the sails, but the wimpy electric trolling motor was NOT strong enoughmove me bare poles up wind at 30mph. So I had to anchor until about 2am when the wind finally got down in the 20's and I could move toward the slip. But then I didn't have enough powerto adequately maneuver. No waves or any danger of capsize or anything, but trying to find the slip in the dark with a wimpy trolling motor and big gusts and trying desperately to avoid plowing into anyone at 2am was pretty nerve wracking. It was basically a semi controlled crash into the dock. As is trying to get the boat centered on the trailer when the wind and waves are fighting against you. I bent the bow stop on the trailer one time. I have a bunch of foam zip tied on it now.
Great question re storm jibs and roller furlers. We do what we have to do in a pinch but it is generally not the best to roll a 150% Genoa down to storm jib size. I have two dedicated storm jibs. One is a heavy weather staysail from my VN23 which I converted to roller furling for my M17. It is about 35 sq ft and fits the M17 perfectly. It can be rolled up to reduce its area even further. It is not difficult to change headsails with the Shaefer Snapfurl at the dock but it becomes a handful if out sailing. The trouble is that when you lower the big Genoa, it can get away from you because the luff is free to blow away; it’s not constrained by hanks to the forestay. (And it’s blowing like stink, of course.) I have a hank-on storm jib that I use when I need to make a drastic sail reduction under way. I have my boat rigged with a removable Dyneema Solent stay for this hank on jib. The bottom end clips to the mast base when not in use. To deploy, I bring the end to the bow and attach it to a reinforced pad eye about a foot aft of the stem head. I use a forestay quick-release lever with ball lock pins for attachment. It only takes a few seconds to deploy the Solent stay. The 26 sq ft storm jib (stock size sold for Catalina 22) has one-handed Wichard type snaps instead of traditional hanks, making it easy to bend on. Quick and slick! (These snaps came standard with Rolly Tasker sails bought from National Sail Supply.) Here is a link to using a Solent stay on an M17. This is not my boat or my project. They went first class. I went a much cheaper (but still strong!) route. I used a pair of mast tangs for the top attachment and a reinforced U-bolt type pad eye at the bow. https://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/storytechnicaldetail.php?id... For good measure I recently added inboard jib tracks to get better sheeting angles for the smaller sails. Henry M17 Monita On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 7:18 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, lots of wind in the Pacific Northwest right now.
This brings up the subject of storm jibs in my mind. I have one that came with my boat, although I have never pulled it out of the bag (maybe I did once when I first got the boat.), I think I will this weekend though.
My sail on the furling rig is a full sized genoa that can’t be removed other than by dropping the mast or climbing the mast. Does anyone rig up a storm jib separate from the furling system and how do they do that?
Of course I can just reduce the area of the genoa sail with the furler but perhaps using a storm jib can be better in very strong winds. I believe Dave Scobie may have mentioned something about this in the past.
Thanks in advance for any responses
Jason Leckie Kuma M17 Point Roberts,WA/ Vancouver, BC
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
Why not roll it down? On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 08:57:40 PM PDT, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote: Great question re storm jibs and roller furlers. We do what we have to do in a pinch but it is generally not the best to roll a 150% Genoa down to storm jib size.
On 8/18/23 21:33, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
Why not roll it down?
On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 08:57:40 PM PDT, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Great question re storm jibs and roller furlers. We do what we have to do in a pinch but it is generally not the best to roll a 150% Genoa down to storm jib size.
Good question. And brings up some other thoughts about the dual solent stay and furled jib, versus just a reefed furling jib... Even a well made furling jib with well designed luff padding will lose some performance as it reefs down. Partly due to change in shape as it rolls up. Though if the sail is well shaped this will be the lesser problem. My two reefable jibs keep quite good shape even when significantly reefed relative to their full size. That's a best case though. Partly because the leading edge (luff) of the sail will generate increased turbulence, due to having some amount of rolled up jib as the 'fat' leading edge when reefed. So the sail will not perform as well, for both those reasons, to different degrees. Plus, sail performance aside, there will be just plain added windage at the bow from the thickness of the furled portion of the jib. That makes me curious where the break-even point is between the performance hit from having the furled jib in place while using a storm jib on separate stay, compared with just using the partly reefed jib on furler. If it's a Genoa, probably in favor of the separate stay for storm jib. But if it's a working jib, maybe not...? I think it also depends on how often one sails in winds where a storm jib really is required. And whether that is most of the time, or just once in a while, or just in gusts, etc. And if one is out for the day and can just head home if it gets too crazy, or is on a cruise/passage where that is not really an option. The furled jib - especially the bigger it is when fully deployed - adds a non-trivial amount of windage at the bow. Which, even if the turbulence doesn't much affect the storm jib, could make a big difference when it's blowing hard enough to want a storm jib in the first place. My only direct experience with the effects of an 'extra' furled headsail on windward performance was one time in Hawai'i - heading from La Perouse bay (SW corner of Maui) back towards north end of Hawai'i island. Which is upwind, in the typically intense 'Alenuihaha channel, close reach all the way if one wants to take the "high road" option and try and clear the north end of Hawai'i island in one reach (we did, we were heading back to Hilo). The boat was a Corsair F-31 (Farrier designed tri) with a furling "screacher" foresail on a stay to front of bowsprit, and then the regular working jib on a stay to the bow. Due to combination of high wind and close reach needed, we couldn't use the screacher, so we furled it. However the windage from that furled screacher - even though it was relatively slim furled, since it had no luff padding, was only designed for use fully deployed - was so much that it majorly affected our ability to stay close on the wind. After heading out into the channel and assessing the situation, the skipper turned us back into the bay and we doused the screacher completely, removing it and stowing it below. Made a huge difference. Obviously that's not any direct boat-to-boat comparison, but sure showed me how much impact the windage alone of a furled foresail can have in those kinds of conditions. cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi Henry, A Solent stay. That is great and relatively simple setup that would allow us to stay comfortable and in control in a wider range of conditions. Thank very much for sharing, another project for the off season. On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 8:57 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Great question re storm jibs and roller furlers. We do what we have to do in a pinch but it is generally not the best to roll a 150% Genoa down to storm jib size.
I have two dedicated storm jibs. One is a heavy weather staysail from my VN23 which I converted to roller furling for my M17. It is about 35 sq ft and fits the M17 perfectly. It can be rolled up to reduce its area even further. It is not difficult to change headsails with the Shaefer Snapfurl at the dock but it becomes a handful if out sailing. The trouble is that when you lower the big Genoa, it can get away from you because the luff is free to blow away; it’s not constrained by hanks to the forestay. (And it’s blowing like stink, of course.)
I have a hank-on storm jib that I use when I need to make a drastic sail reduction under way. I have my boat rigged with a removable Dyneema Solent stay for this hank on jib. The bottom end clips to the mast base when not in use. To deploy, I bring the end to the bow and attach it to a reinforced pad eye about a foot aft of the stem head. I use a forestay quick-release lever with ball lock pins for attachment. It only takes a few seconds to deploy the Solent stay. The 26 sq ft storm jib (stock size sold for Catalina 22) has one-handed Wichard type snaps instead of traditional hanks, making it easy to bend on. Quick and slick! (These snaps came standard with Rolly Tasker sails bought from National Sail Supply.)
Here is a link to using a Solent stay on an M17. This is not my boat or my project. They went first class. I went a much cheaper (but still strong!) route. I used a pair of mast tangs for the top attachment and a reinforced U-bolt type pad eye at the bow.
https://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/storytechnicaldetail.php?id...
For good measure I recently added inboard jib tracks to get better sheeting angles for the smaller sails.
Henry M17 Monita
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 7:18 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, lots of wind in the Pacific Northwest right now.
This brings up the subject of storm jibs in my mind. I have one that came with my boat, although I have never pulled it out of the bag (maybe I did once when I first got the boat.), I think I will this weekend though.
My sail on the furling rig is a full sized genoa that can’t be removed other than by dropping the mast or climbing the mast. Does anyone rig up a storm jib separate from the furling system and how do they do that?
Of course I can just reduce the area of the genoa sail with the furler but perhaps using a storm jib can be better in very strong winds. I believe Dave Scobie may have mentioned something about this in the past.
Thanks in advance for any responses
Jason Leckie Kuma M17 Point Roberts,WA/ Vancouver, BC
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
I've always wondered about setting my heavy weather jib freestanding- at least on an M15 with its loose rig, the halyard is taking almost all the tension anyway. Has anyone done this, and are there any major drawbacks? Alex On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 8:57 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Great question re storm jibs and roller furlers. We do what we have to do in a pinch but it is generally not the best to roll a 150% Genoa down to storm jib size.
I have two dedicated storm jibs. One is a heavy weather staysail from my VN23 which I converted to roller furling for my M17. It is about 35 sq ft and fits the M17 perfectly. It can be rolled up to reduce its area even further. It is not difficult to change headsails with the Shaefer Snapfurl at the dock but it becomes a handful if out sailing. The trouble is that when you lower the big Genoa, it can get away from you because the luff is free to blow away; it’s not constrained by hanks to the forestay. (And it’s blowing like stink, of course.)
I have a hank-on storm jib that I use when I need to make a drastic sail reduction under way. I have my boat rigged with a removable Dyneema Solent stay for this hank on jib. The bottom end clips to the mast base when not in use. To deploy, I bring the end to the bow and attach it to a reinforced pad eye about a foot aft of the stem head. I use a forestay quick-release lever with ball lock pins for attachment. It only takes a few seconds to deploy the Solent stay. The 26 sq ft storm jib (stock size sold for Catalina 22) has one-handed Wichard type snaps instead of traditional hanks, making it easy to bend on. Quick and slick! (These snaps came standard with Rolly Tasker sails bought from National Sail Supply.)
Here is a link to using a Solent stay on an M17. This is not my boat or my project. They went first class. I went a much cheaper (but still strong!) route. I used a pair of mast tangs for the top attachment and a reinforced U-bolt type pad eye at the bow.
https://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/storytechnicaldetail.php?id...
For good measure I recently added inboard jib tracks to get better sheeting angles for the smaller sails.
Henry M17 Monita
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 7:18 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, lots of wind in the Pacific Northwest right now.
This brings up the subject of storm jibs in my mind. I have one that came with my boat, although I have never pulled it out of the bag (maybe I did once when I first got the boat.), I think I will this weekend though.
My sail on the furling rig is a full sized genoa that can’t be removed other than by dropping the mast or climbing the mast. Does anyone rig up a storm jib separate from the furling system and how do they do that?
Of course I can just reduce the area of the genoa sail with the furler but perhaps using a storm jib can be better in very strong winds. I believe Dave Scobie may have mentioned something about this in the past.
Thanks in advance for any responses
Jason Leckie Kuma M17 Point Roberts,WA/ Vancouver, BC
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
You can also do what is called a kemp sleeve that wraps around your furled sail allowing you to clip your storm jib to it. It is essentially a rectangle of fabric with grommets that line up with your storm sail clips. On Sat, Aug 19, 2023 at 11:17 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
I've always wondered about setting my heavy weather jib freestanding- at least on an M15 with its loose rig, the halyard is taking almost all the tension anyway. Has anyone done this, and are there any major drawbacks?
Alex
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 8:57 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Great question re storm jibs and roller furlers. We do what we have to do in a pinch but it is generally not the best to roll a 150% Genoa down to storm jib size.
I have two dedicated storm jibs. One is a heavy weather staysail from my VN23 which I converted to roller furling for my M17. It is about 35 sq ft and fits the M17 perfectly. It can be rolled up to reduce its area even further. It is not difficult to change headsails with the Shaefer Snapfurl at the dock but it becomes a handful if out sailing. The trouble is that when you lower the big Genoa, it can get away from you because the luff is free to blow away; it’s not constrained by hanks to the forestay. (And it’s blowing like stink, of course.)
I have a hank-on storm jib that I use when I need to make a drastic sail reduction under way. I have my boat rigged with a removable Dyneema Solent stay for this hank on jib. The bottom end clips to the mast base when not in use. To deploy, I bring the end to the bow and attach it to a reinforced pad eye about a foot aft of the stem head. I use a forestay quick-release lever with ball lock pins for attachment. It only takes a few seconds to deploy the Solent stay. The 26 sq ft storm jib (stock size sold for Catalina 22) has one-handed Wichard type snaps instead of traditional hanks, making it easy to bend on. Quick and slick! (These snaps came standard with Rolly Tasker sails bought from National Sail Supply.)
Here is a link to using a Solent stay on an M17. This is not my boat or my project. They went first class. I went a much cheaper (but still strong!) route. I used a pair of mast tangs for the top attachment and a reinforced U-bolt type pad eye at the bow.
https://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/storytechnicaldetail.php?id...
For good measure I recently added inboard jib tracks to get better
sheeting
angles for the smaller sails.
Henry M17 Monita
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 7:18 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, lots of wind in the Pacific Northwest right now.
This brings up the subject of storm jibs in my mind. I have one that came with my boat, although I have never pulled it out of the bag (maybe I did once when I first got the boat.), I think I will this weekend though.
My sail on the furling rig is a full sized genoa that can’t be removed other than by dropping the mast or climbing the mast. Does anyone rig up a storm jib separate from the furling system and how do they do that?
Of course I can just reduce the area of the genoa sail with the furler but perhaps using a storm jib can be better in very strong winds. I believe Dave Scobie may have mentioned something about this in the past.
Thanks in advance for any responses
Jason Leckie Kuma M17 Point Roberts,WA/ Vancouver, BC
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
Cool...and Kemp is actually a specific brand... Here's an article from 2016 from a UK online magazine surveying the various options at the time: https://www.pbo.co.uk/gear/7-storm-jibs-on-test-26029 They come up with inner forestay and hank-on as their first preference. However they are not talking about 'small' boats here - their test boat is a 26-footer, and I looked up some of the wraparound and sleeved options they review and they're mostly for that and much larger boats. The "Gale Sail" (self-sleeved option) smallest version is identified as "Less than 27 ft boat" - probably not suitable as a storm jib on an M17! Maybe an M23... The Kemp sleeve comes in about 2nd to last due to challenges of getting everything aligned and connected (sleeve with two edges plus luff of jib itself and where the hanks are). Their last choice is freestanding, for multiple reasons including luff sag and the challenges/risks of raising/lowering sail with no stay flogging in heavy winds. The other consideration in all these options is having a halyard available. If you have a CDI furler the regular jib halyard is not used so that's easy-peasy (as the Brits might say). If you have a separate spinnaker halyard then that's an option if the furler uses the regular jib halyard. Otherwise you've got to add a halyard, as well as the solent stay and associated hardware. cheers, John On 8/21/23 14:00, Jason Leckie wrote:
You can also do what is called a kemp sleeve that wraps around your furled sail allowing you to clip your storm jib to it. It is essentially a rectangle of fabric with grommets that line up with your storm sail clips.
On Sat, Aug 19, 2023 at 11:17 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
I've always wondered about setting my heavy weather jib freestanding- at least on an M15 with its loose rig, the halyard is taking almost all the tension anyway. Has anyone done this, and are there any major drawbacks?
Alex
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 8:57 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Great question re storm jibs and roller furlers. We do what we have to do in a pinch but it is generally not the best to roll a 150% Genoa down to storm jib size.
I have two dedicated storm jibs. One is a heavy weather staysail from my VN23 which I converted to roller furling for my M17. It is about 35 sq ft and fits the M17 perfectly. It can be rolled up to reduce its area even further. It is not difficult to change headsails with the Shaefer Snapfurl at the dock but it becomes a handful if out sailing. The trouble is that when you lower the big Genoa, it can get away from you because the luff is free to blow away; it’s not constrained by hanks to the forestay. (And it’s blowing like stink, of course.)
I have a hank-on storm jib that I use when I need to make a drastic sail reduction under way. I have my boat rigged with a removable Dyneema Solent stay for this hank on jib. The bottom end clips to the mast base when not in use. To deploy, I bring the end to the bow and attach it to a reinforced pad eye about a foot aft of the stem head. I use a forestay quick-release lever with ball lock pins for attachment. It only takes a few seconds to deploy the Solent stay. The 26 sq ft storm jib (stock size sold for Catalina 22) has one-handed Wichard type snaps instead of traditional hanks, making it easy to bend on. Quick and slick! (These snaps came standard with Rolly Tasker sails bought from National Sail Supply.)
Here is a link to using a Solent stay on an M17. This is not my boat or my project. They went first class. I went a much cheaper (but still strong!) route. I used a pair of mast tangs for the top attachment and a reinforced U-bolt type pad eye at the bow.
https://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/storytechnicaldetail.php?id...
For good measure I recently added inboard jib tracks to get better
sheeting
angles for the smaller sails.
Henry M17 Monita
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 7:18 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, lots of wind in the Pacific Northwest right now.
This brings up the subject of storm jibs in my mind. I have one that came with my boat, although I have never pulled it out of the bag (maybe I did once when I first got the boat.), I think I will this weekend though.
My sail on the furling rig is a full sized genoa that can’t be removed other than by dropping the mast or climbing the mast. Does anyone rig up a storm jib separate from the furling system and how do they do that?
Of course I can just reduce the area of the genoa sail with the furler but perhaps using a storm jib can be better in very strong winds. I believe Dave Scobie may have mentioned something about this in the past.
Thanks in advance for any responses
Jason Leckie Kuma M17 Point Roberts,WA/ Vancouver, BC
>
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks all for the replies to date! More welcome, it's nice to hear what a solid heavy weather boat we have. Jerry, was that Catalina trip in an M17? If so...yowza! Like Henry, I'm not dealing with ocean waves either, just lake chop. There is a pretty big fetch if I'm towards the downwind areas, but I've never felt any concern about the boat handling that. I'll be curious to get my former high wind racer friend out and see what he thinks of an M17. He's used to much bigger boats, like big enough they have four reefs in the main...! Also he was quite a bit younger then I think. cheers, John On 8/18/23 16:47, Larry Yake wrote:
Timely subject. I was just out today in steady winds of 20+ with prolonged gusts of 30+ on Priest Lake in northern Idaho. One deep reef. Boat was solid, no problems.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:53 PM Jennifer Wood < jennifer@buskersguidetotheuniverse.org> wrote:
Last year I was out in about 18mph w/ gusts > 25, and it was ... surprisingly stable with a storm jib and a single reef. This is a reassuring little boat!
I have a new main on the way, and your stories have convinced me to ask them to put in a second reef. I'm hoping to get out on Superior next summer -- even if it's "just" the Apostle Islands. Things can change fast out there from what I hear, so it'll be good to have options.
Somewhat relatedly, anyone spent time out on Rainy Lake? It's a "little" great lake of sorts.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 11:43 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I absolutely love going out in 25-30 knot winds. 40 knot gusts is the highest I've been in. Storm jib and double reefed main. I don't get ocean size waves on my inland lake.
The picture was taken just before I put the second reef in.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 10:58 AM Jim Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
That beats me!
In San Francisco Bay summer winds regularly get over 20 knots in "the slot" around the Golden Gate Bridge. In wind vs. tide conditions the seas can get over 5' with steep breaking chop. With a fully reefed main and a slab reefing jib "Spirit" handled these conditions with winds gusting well into the 30's without trouble. It's a great place to build confidence because if everything goes to hell help is *usually* nearby.
- Jim P.
M17 "Spirit"
On 8/18/2023 7:54 AM, jerry montgomery wrote:
A friend and I sailed to Catalina Island, probably in '84, when it was blowing 42 with gusts of 50. These were Coast Guard figures. Wind was right on the nose. We got to the well-sheltered Avalon Bay well after dark and gratefully tied up to a mooring.
Waves were WAY higher than the mast!
________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: What's the biggest wind you've been out in?
A question for the list...especially M17s, but 15s and 23s feel free to chime in.
Just curious what kind of high wind conditions anyone has dealt with on their M17. 30 knots? 40? more? Anything that broke the rigging, blew out a sail, etc.?
Part of the reason I'm asking... I've got a friend originally from South Africa who in his younger days sailed bigger boats, racing, in the Cape region, where he says regularly it blows 30+ and they would commonly go out in 40+. Triple and quadruple reefs and storm jibs for a nice day on the water... :-!
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- Jennifer Wood (she/her)
Itinerant musician? Try the Guide to the Universe! https://www.buskersguidetotheuniverse.org/ https://buskersguide.org <http://buskersguide.org>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (11)
-
Alex Conley -
casioqv -
Henry Rodriguez -
Jason Leckie -
Jennifer Wood -
jerry montgomery -
Jim Poulakis -
John Schinnerer -
Larry Yake -
Lawrence Winiarski -
Mike Epp