Hi, Went to look at a 17 today with a eye to buying her. #24 , "Boojum" has been in the same family since she was bought new in 1974. The boat has been passed from father to daughter i(n her 70's now) and the boat is finally up for sale. They still have the original invoice. Cost new about $3900. It really interesting to look at this early boat. It doesn't seem to have cored decks. The stiffness of the deck is from glassed in tubes under the deck and around chain plates. There is no stern locker. The port cockpit locker is large and goes to the hull. The starboard cockpit locker is small, located at the stern of the cockpit and also goes to the hull. There is a marine head (totally shot) with seacock. Stern has cutout for motor. It has split backstay but no adjuster. It has 2 sets of pintles and the rudder looks much shorter that currently used (maybe owner mod. but pintles look original) The centerboard trunk looks very thin. Much thinner than my 81 15" or any other 17s I have seen, No built in water tank. VERY small "bilge" space..... full of water. The hull gelcoat is light blue. The downsides.. I have never seen a boat with more worn gel coat on the deck. There are places in the cockpit where the glass is translucent from wear. This boat was used! The owners have left her in the water with centerboard down for at least 11 years. The bottom has been painted a couple of time. A couple of years ago, we had a hurricane and she was washed up a drainage creek. and the board was pushed up in her. It hasn't been down since. All cushions gone. Still using ORIGINAL (40 years old) sails from Costa Mesa sailmaker... and amazingly they still look ok. There is a trailer but it need a total rebuild. They have a really nice Evinrude yachtwin 4hp. The boat is just too much work for me. I'll stay happy with my 15. Chesley Sugg M-15 # 153 "Mouse" New Bern, NC
Sounds like a very wise decision,Chesley. A sailboat that old is really why the term "used" was invented ;-} The price is about right, I think. You can either pay upfront and get a decent ready to go craft or you can lowball the deal and spend the next year plus lots of money plus lots of running around plus lots of labor (either yours or hired) to get to the same place. Interesting history on this one. Tom B Mont.17 #258, 1978 On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chesley Sugg <csugg@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi,
Went to look at a 17 today with a eye to buying her.
#24 , "Boojum" has been in the same family since she was bought new in 1974. The boat has been passed from father to daughter i(n her 70's now) and the boat is finally up for sale. They still have the original invoice. Cost new about $3900.
It really interesting to look at this early boat. It doesn't seem to have cored decks. The stiffness of the deck is from glassed in tubes under the deck and around chain plates. There is no stern locker. The port cockpit locker is large and goes to the hull. The starboard cockpit locker is small, located at the stern of the cockpit and also goes to the hull. There is a marine head (totally shot) with seacock. Stern has cutout for motor. It has split backstay but no adjuster. It has 2 sets of pintles and the rudder looks much shorter that currently used (maybe owner mod. but pintles look original) The centerboard trunk looks very thin. Much thinner than my 81 15" or any other 17s I have seen, No built in water tank. VERY small "bilge" space..... full of water. The hull gelcoat is light blue.
The downsides.. I have never seen a boat with more worn gel coat on the deck. There are places in the cockpit where the glass is translucent from wear. This boat was used! The owners have left her in the water with centerboard down for at least 11 years. The bottom has been painted a couple of time. A couple of years ago, we had a hurricane and she was washed up a drainage creek. and the board was pushed up in her. It hasn't been down since. All cushions gone. Still using ORIGINAL (40 years old) sails from Costa Mesa sailmaker... and amazingly they still look ok.
There is a trailer but it need a total rebuild. They have a really nice Evinrude yachtwin 4hp.
The boat is just too much work for me. I'll stay happy with my 15.
Chesley Sugg M-15 # 153 "Mouse" New Bern, NC
What is the asking price for this boat? t On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like a very wise decision,Chesley. A sailboat that old is really why the term "used" was invented ;-} The price is about right, I think. You can either pay upfront and get a decent ready to go craft or you can lowball the deal and spend the next year plus lots of money plus lots of running around plus lots of labor (either yours or hired) to get to the same place. Interesting history on this one.
Tom B Mont.17 #258, 1978
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chesley Sugg <csugg@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi,
Went to look at a 17 today with a eye to buying her.
#24 , "Boojum" has been in the same family since she was bought new in 1974. The boat has been passed from father to daughter i(n her 70's now) and the boat is finally up for sale. They still have the original invoice. Cost new about $3900.
It really interesting to look at this early boat. It doesn't seem to have cored decks. The stiffness of the deck is from glassed in tubes under the deck and around chain plates. There is no stern locker. The port cockpit locker is large and goes to the hull. The starboard cockpit locker is small, located at the stern of the cockpit and also goes to the hull. There is a marine head (totally shot) with seacock. Stern has cutout for motor. It has split backstay but no adjuster. It has 2 sets of pintles and the rudder looks much shorter that currently used (maybe owner mod. but pintles look original) The centerboard trunk looks very thin. Much thinner than my 81 15" or any other 17s I have seen, No built in water tank. VERY small "bilge" space..... full of water. The hull gelcoat is light blue.
The downsides.. I have never seen a boat with more worn gel coat on the deck. There are places in the cockpit where the glass is translucent from wear. This boat was used! The owners have left her in the water with centerboard down for at least 11 years. The bottom has been painted a couple of time. A couple of years ago, we had a hurricane and she was washed up a drainage creek. and the board was pushed up in her. It hasn't been down since. All cushions gone. Still using ORIGINAL (40 years old) sails from Costa Mesa sailmaker... and amazingly they still look ok.
There is a trailer but it need a total rebuild. They have a really nice Evinrude yachtwin 4hp.
The boat is just too much work for me. I'll stay happy with my 15.
Chesley Sugg M-15 # 153 "Mouse" New Bern, NC
hey tom smith , if you want a m17 in similar cond . give me a E/mail it'll be way less than that $1800 tax value . boat is in Fla. pan handle . doug - kicker_ fixer@yahoo'com. On Monday, December 2, 2013 9:23 PM, Chesley Sugg <csugg@mindspring.com> wrote: On Dec 2, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Tom Smith wrote:
What is the asking price for this boat?
Don't know yet. Tax value is around $1800. I'll let you know when I talk to them. Chesley
I have a '92 in excellent shape, Doug. Asking about price is more out of curiosity than anything. Those very, very early M17s were construction experiments I'm guessing--I can see why jerry shied the guy away from it... A friend of mine is interested in a starter. FL is a long ways from WA... Tom On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Doug Hall <kicker_fixer@yahoo.com> wrote:
hey tom smith , if you want a m17 in similar cond . give me a E/mail it'll be way less than that $1800 tax value . boat is in Fla. pan handle . doug - kicker_ fixer@yahoo'com.
On Monday, December 2, 2013 9:23 PM, Chesley Sugg <csugg@mindspring.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Tom Smith wrote:
What is the asking price for this boat?
Don't know yet. Tax value is around $1800. I'll let you know when I talk to them.
Chesley
Doug, Where in Washington State? My M-15 and I are on South Puget Sound? Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Smith" <openboatt@gmail.com> To: "Doug Hall" <kicker_fixer@yahoo.com>; "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 8:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Monty 17, #24
I have a '92 in excellent shape, Doug. Asking about price is more out of curiosity than anything. Those very, very early M17s were construction experiments I'm guessing--I can see why jerry shied the guy away from it...
A friend of mine is interested in a starter. FL is a long ways from WA... Tom
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Doug Hall <kicker_fixer@yahoo.com> wrote:
hey tom smith , if you want a m17 in similar cond . give me a E/mail it'll be way less than that $1800 tax value . boat is in Fla. pan handle . doug - kicker_ fixer@yahoo'com.
On Monday, December 2, 2013 9:23 PM, Chesley Sugg <csugg@mindspring.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Tom Smith wrote:
What is the asking price for this boat?
Don't know yet. Tax value is around $1800. I'll let you know when I talk to them.
Chesley
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3426 / Virus Database: 3629/6886 - Release Date: 12/02/13
i wouldn't say a boat of such age was a 'building experiment'. at the time Jerry was building that M17 MMP had been in business for about five years. in addition Jerry had years of experience running the Cal 40 production line. from the description shared the following are a concern - * deck needs painting. a LOT of work. over $1000 to have a yard do the work. * new sails. at least $1200 for a main and 150 genoa. * centerboard - stuck? or just not been lowered since the grounding? if it isn't stuck likely needs to be dropped, sand blasted and re-coated. yard to do work for maybe $1000. * also, is the centerboard stuck because the steel punching in the keel are rusting? rusted keel ballast ... wow. how deep is your wallet? * if the trailer is shot a new one will cost about between $1800 to $2600 (not including cost to get the trailer from the builder to the new owner's location). so ... if you like to renovate old boats that M17 may be just the ticket; or you could keep looking for one in better condition. two other things - the M17s built before about 1983 have different deck/cockpit layouts. the easy to identify differences the pre-83 cockpits only have one large locker (to port) and a smaller one to starboard. there is no aft locker. the pre-83 cabin tops are lower, have a larger slider hatch (which is removable) and a different forward hatch. the older M17s also have the transom cutout for the outboard. is the slot for the boat is narrow in comparison to an M15? yes, this is correct. the M17s through the late 80s was cast iron. they are narrow and weight about 180 pounds. in the late 80s the cast iron board casting was destroyed by Jerry's foundry sub-contractor. at this time he converted the M17's to using the same, fatter and 45#, M15 centerboard. this was also the time period Jerry was 'migrating' from steel punching in the keel to lead. same transition from steel punching ballast in the M15 centerboards to lead. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 12/2/13, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote: I have a '92 in excellent shape, Doug. Asking about price is more out of curiosity than anything. Those very, very early M17s were construction experiments I'm guessing--I can see why jerry shied the guy away from it... A friend of mine is interested in a starter. FL is a long ways from WA... Tom On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Doug Hall <kicker_fixer@yahoo.com> wrote:
hey tom smith , if you want a m17 in similar cond . give me a E/mail it'll be way less than that $1800 tax value . boat is in Fla. pan handle . doug - kicker_ fixer@yahoo'com.
On Monday, December 2, 2013 9:23 PM, Chesley Sugg <csugg@mindspring.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Tom Smith wrote:
What is the asking price for this boat?
Don't know yet. Tax value is around $1800. I'll let you know when I talk to them.
Chesley
Geez Dave, Where did you get all this info? This is a most interesting email. I copied it for my files. If I had not already owned a '74 and now own a '78, I would certainly shop for a post '93 and circumvent several problems inherent in the original design. I did thoroughly enjoy my '74 for the years I owned it. I have the 78 up on jacks in the driveway now and the board is freeeeee. I doubt the hull had been exposed to much salt water if any. A good buy except for the obvious cosmetic requirements. The yellow hull, by the way, makes most of my neighbors who see the boat smile. Good for neighborhood relations. Fair winds, Tom B Mont 17#258 On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:55 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
i wouldn't say a boat of such age was a 'building experiment'. at the time Jerry was building that M17 MMP had been in business for about five years. in addition Jerry had years of experience running the Cal 40 production line.
from the description shared the following are a concern -
* deck needs painting. a LOT of work. over $1000 to have a yard do the work. * new sails. at least $1200 for a main and 150 genoa. * centerboard - stuck? or just not been lowered since the grounding? if it isn't stuck likely needs to be dropped, sand blasted and re-coated. yard to do work for maybe $1000. * also, is the centerboard stuck because the steel punching in the keel are rusting? rusted keel ballast ... wow. how deep is your wallet? * if the trailer is shot a new one will cost about between $1800 to $2600 (not including cost to get the trailer from the builder to the new owner's location).
so ... if you like to renovate old boats that M17 may be just the ticket; or you could keep looking for one in better condition.
two other things -
the M17s built before about 1983 have different deck/cockpit layouts. the easy to identify differences the pre-83 cockpits only have one large locker (to port) and a smaller one to starboard. there is no aft locker. the pre-83 cabin tops are lower, have a larger slider hatch (which is removable) and a different forward hatch. the older M17s also have the transom cutout for the outboard.
is the slot for the boat is narrow in comparison to an M15? yes, this is correct. the M17s through the late 80s was cast iron. they are narrow and weight about 180 pounds. in the late 80s the cast iron board casting was destroyed by Jerry's foundry sub-contractor. at this time he converted the M17's to using the same, fatter and 45#, M15 centerboard. this was also the time period Jerry was 'migrating' from steel punching in the keel to lead. same transition from steel punching ballast in the M15 centerboards to lead.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 12/2/13, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
I have a '92 in excellent shape, Doug. Asking about price is more out of curiosity than anything. Those very, very early M17s were construction experiments I'm guessing--I can see why jerry shied the guy away from it...
A friend of mine is interested in a starter. FL is a long ways from WA... Tom
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Doug Hall <kicker_fixer@yahoo.com> wrote:
hey tom smith , if you want a m17 in similar cond . give me a E/mail it'll be way less than that $1800 tax value . boat is in Fla. pan handle . doug - kicker_ fixer@yahoo'com.
On Monday, December 2, 2013 9:23 PM, Chesley Sugg <csugg@mindspring.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Tom Smith wrote:
What is the asking price for this boat?
Don't know yet. Tax value is around $1800. I'll let you know when I talk to them.
Chesley
I owned an early model M17 (not pre-balsa core as #24 is described above, but mid-70s nonetheless). It was a good boat, but an even better learning experience. I had to deal with dropping and refinishing the centerboard, but that really wasn't a big deal once I figured out how to get the boat high enough to do the job. There were other niggling problems, but nothing I couldn't handle myself, and certainly nothing I'd go near a boatyard for. Fortunately I didn't have to deal with the dreaded steel punchings problem. I followed Sean Mulligan's trials and tribulations with his '23, and there ain't enough money in the world to make me go down that path. I now sail a '92 M17, and for the quality that resulted from a 20-year learning curve (no offense to you early model sailors...), I'd probably never own anything but a late model jerry-built boat (except, perhaps, Larry Yake's...). Bob Eeg's trials and tribulations are thoroughly documented, so for me, those (and cost) eliminate his M-boats from the mix (you guys paying 25k or better for a 17ft. sailboat have a good deal more disposable income than I, and I know for a fact you aren't married to somebody like my lovely wife/accountant/task master...). If something like #24 looks like an adventure to one of you courageous souls, more power to you--I'd rather be sailing. Tom On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:48 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Geez Dave, Where did you get all this info? This is a most interesting email. I copied it for my files. If I had not already owned a '74 and now own a '78, I would certainly shop for a post '93 and circumvent several problems inherent in the original design. I did thoroughly enjoy my '74 for the years I owned it. I have the 78 up on jacks in the driveway now and the board is freeeeee. I doubt the hull had been exposed to much salt water if any. A good buy except for the obvious cosmetic requirements. The yellow hull, by the way, makes most of my neighbors who see the boat smile. Good for neighborhood relations. Fair winds, Tom B Mont 17#258
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:55 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
i wouldn't say a boat of such age was a 'building experiment'. at the time Jerry was building that M17 MMP had been in business for about five years. in addition Jerry had years of experience running the Cal 40 production line.
from the description shared the following are a concern -
* deck needs painting. a LOT of work. over $1000 to have a yard do the work. * new sails. at least $1200 for a main and 150 genoa. * centerboard - stuck? or just not been lowered since the grounding? if it isn't stuck likely needs to be dropped, sand blasted and re-coated. yard to do work for maybe $1000. * also, is the centerboard stuck because the steel punching in the keel are rusting? rusted keel ballast ... wow. how deep is your wallet? * if the trailer is shot a new one will cost about between $1800 to $2600 (not including cost to get the trailer from the builder to the new owner's location).
so ... if you like to renovate old boats that M17 may be just the ticket; or you could keep looking for one in better condition.
two other things -
the M17s built before about 1983 have different deck/cockpit layouts. the easy to identify differences the pre-83 cockpits only have one large locker (to port) and a smaller one to starboard. there is no aft locker. the pre-83 cabin tops are lower, have a larger slider hatch (which is removable) and a different forward hatch. the older M17s also have the transom cutout for the outboard.
is the slot for the boat is narrow in comparison to an M15? yes, this is correct. the M17s through the late 80s was cast iron. they are narrow and weight about 180 pounds. in the late 80s the cast iron board casting was destroyed by Jerry's foundry sub-contractor. at this time he converted the M17's to using the same, fatter and 45#, M15 centerboard. this was also the time period Jerry was 'migrating' from steel punching in the keel to lead. same transition from steel punching ballast in the M15 centerboards to lead.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 12/2/13, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
I have a '92 in excellent shape, Doug. Asking about price is more out of curiosity than anything. Those very, very early M17s were construction experiments I'm guessing--I can see why jerry shied the guy away from it...
A friend of mine is interested in a starter. FL is a long ways from WA... Tom
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Doug Hall <kicker_fixer@yahoo.com> wrote:
hey tom smith , if you want a m17 in similar cond . give me a E/mail it'll be way less than that $1800 tax value . boat is in Fla. pan handle . doug - kicker_ fixer@yahoo'com.
On Monday, December 2, 2013 9:23 PM, Chesley Sugg <csugg@mindspring.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Tom Smith wrote:
What is the asking price for this boat?
Don't know yet. Tax value is around $1800. I'll let you know when I talk to them.
Chesley
On Dec 2, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Sounds like a very wise decision,Chesley. A sailboat that old is really why the term "used" was invented ;-} The price is about right, I think. You can either pay upfront and get a decent ready to go craft or you can lowball the deal and spend the next year plus lots of money plus lots of running around plus lots of labor (either yours or hired) to get to the same place. Interesting history on this one.
Tom B Mont.17 #258, 1978
Yeah Tom, that's what i thought, I don't have the energy or interest to rehab this one. I'll probably stick to my 15 for a little while longer, Ches
Probably a wise decision! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chesley Sugg" <csugg@mindspring.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 3:58 PM Subject: M_Boats: Monty 17, #24 Hi, Went to look at a 17 today with a eye to buying her. #24 , "Boojum" has been in the same family since she was bought new in 1974. The boat has been passed from father to daughter i(n her 70's now) and the boat is finally up for sale. They still have the original invoice. Cost new about $3900. It really interesting to look at this early boat. It doesn't seem to have cored decks. The stiffness of the deck is from glassed in tubes under the deck and around chain plates. There is no stern locker. The port cockpit locker is large and goes to the hull. The starboard cockpit locker is small, located at the stern of the cockpit and also goes to the hull. There is a marine head (totally shot) with seacock. Stern has cutout for motor. It has split backstay but no adjuster. It has 2 sets of pintles and the rudder looks much shorter that currently used (maybe owner mod. but pintles look original) The centerboard trunk looks very thin. Much thinner than my 81 15" or any other 17s I have seen, No built in water tank. VERY small "bilge" space..... full of water. The hull gelcoat is light blue. The downsides.. I have never seen a boat with more worn gel coat on the deck. There are places in the cockpit where the glass is translucent from wear. This boat was used! The owners have left her in the water with centerboard down for at least 11 years. The bottom has been painted a couple of time. A couple of years ago, we had a hurricane and she was washed up a drainage creek. and the board was pushed up in her. It hasn't been down since. All cushions gone. Still using ORIGINAL (40 years old) sails from Costa Mesa sailmaker... and amazingly they still look ok. There is a trailer but it need a total rebuild. They have a really nice Evinrude yachtwin 4hp. The boat is just too much work for me. I'll stay happy with my 15. Chesley Sugg M-15 # 153 "Mouse" New Bern, NC -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 9660 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
participants (7)
-
Chesley Sugg -
Doug Hall -
jerry montgomery -
stevetrapp -
Thomas Buzzi -
Tom Smith -
W David Scobie