Rachel, I'm having trouble picturing how a board across the non-galley M17 settees could create a bed . . . You couldn't lay fore/aft, or port/starboard, could you? Thanks, Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel" <penokee@cheqnet.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:36 PM Subject: galley mods On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 08:57 AM, Smith, Tom wrote:

Speaking of the M17 galley, has anyone considered modifying this structure?

Hi Tom, I just thought I'd pipe in with a perhaps-contrarian view on the M-17 galley. The M-17 I used to have was the model with no galley at all - just a matching settee/quarter berth on each side. The funny thing is that I *really* wanted a galley model (or so I thought) when I was looking for a Montgomery. I definitely knew I could never sleep in one of the quarter berths anyway, so having another one wasn't on my wish list. As it turned out, after having one, I thought the non-galley model was superb. The boat seemed so much bigger and more gracious when I could sit below with a friend sipping a hot beverage - we could each lounge on our own settee and could face each other in conversation. The other thing was that - with a board in place across the settees - you could now have two separate, comfortable beds should you so desire. Or perhaps one really comfortable athwartships bed if the V-berth was full of stuff. I also found (even when sailing on bigger boats with somewhat better galleys) that it was great to have a portable "galley-in-a-box" type set-up, 'cause then you were free to cook in the cockpit or on the beach (or down below, I suppose, although I should think in bad weather it'd still be nice to have the stove condensation out in the cockpit, perhaps under a boom tent). And since I'd have a galley-in-a-box anyway, for beach or cockpit, why have two of many things on such a small boat (duplicating things in the boat's galley). As a result, I think if I were to end up with an M-17 with galley (and I can't imagine not having another M in the future), I'd take it out entirely. Then you'd have the best of both worlds: the two comfortable, facing settees down below and the extra cockpit-locker stowage of the galley model (which I believe was replicated on late '80s M-17s with the "short berth" option on the port side. Granted there is the possibility of a lot of storage in a remodeled galley, so I guess they each have their advantages, but I just thought I'd share how I felt, having initially seen the galley as very desirable, but having changed my mind after purchasing a galley-less M-17. FWIW --- Rachel Former M-17 #334 Former M-15 #517 Currently cruising on Westsail 32 #412 (not too portable, but has a lovely galley :-)

On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 05:44 PM, Honshells wrote:

Rachel, I'm having trouble picturing how a board across the non-galley M17 settees could create a bed . . . You couldn't lay fore/aft, or port/starboard, could you? Thanks, Craig

Hi Craig, I'm 5'6" and I could lie quite comfortably athwartships (ie: feet to port, head to starboard and plenty of room for the pillow without jamming it up against the side of the hull) on the settee area of the M-17. I don't remember how "close" it was in terms of taller people being able to do it. I'm not fond of quarterberths because I like to be able to put my knees up and just generally thrash around a bit, being a bit of an insomniac. At any rate, the non-galley 17 (early-eighties model) had a port side that was a mirror image of the starboard side, if that helps you to visualize it. As I understand it, later models had a "short-berth" option which retained the settee - and enough of a quarterberth section for a child to lie fore-and-aft - but then had the better cockpit-accessible storage of the galley model. Not that you couldn't do a little creative cutting and do something like that with the non-galley earlier model... BTW, Craig - did you realize that when you reply to list posts, your mail program doesn't retain/insert an "Re"? Thus it always looks like you're starting a new thread even when you're continuing an existing one. FWIW, --- Rachel Former owner, M-17 #334 Former owner, M-15 #517 Currently cruising on Westsail 32 #412 (actually, right this minute, trying to dig through the snow and jam my car into an already-packed storage locker in northern Wisconsin - ugh)

On Wednesday, November 5, 2003, at 03:34 AM, Maria Jorge wrote:

Hi Rachel: I am 5'3", recently spent two nights on my M17 4 berth model (one jammed in the quarterberth and one in the cockpit), and I am intrigued with your idea of joining the settee berths into a double. On this particular weekend, the V berth was filled with the usual junk. How did you place the board?

Hi Maria, I never got to the "permanent" implementation stage because I got heavily into the repair and restoration part after discovering wet deck core. By the time I'd fixed all that my life had taken a different turn and I sold the boat. Basically, I had just stuffed some square boat cushions (those supposedly life-saver cushions that I've only ever seen used as seat cushions) into the gap to test my idea. I like the idea of dual purpose cockpit filler/cabin filler boards. That's one of the things I love about boats; how everything works two (or more) ways :-) --- Rachel Former owner, M-17 #334 Former owner, M-15 #517 Currently cruising on Westsail 32 #412

On Wednesday, November 5, 2003, at 03:34 AM, Maria Jorge wrote:

Hi Rachel: I am 5'3", recently spent two nights on my M17 4 berth model (one jammed in the quarterberth and one in the cockpit), and I am intrigued with your idea of joining the settee berths into a double. On this particular weekend, the V berth was filled with the usual junk. How did you place the board?

Hi Maria, I never got to the "permanent" implementation stage because I got heavily into the repair and restoration part after discovering wet deck core. By the time I'd fixed all that my life had taken a different turn and I sold the boat. Basically, I had just stuffed some square boat cushions (those supposedly life-saver cushions that I've only ever seen used as seat cushions) into the gap to test my idea. On other (non-M) boats I've seen either plywood panels that fit under seat cushions or behind back cushions during the day (but then restrict access to lockers), or ~1 x 4 slats between the usual seat-front fiddles now-turned-into-cleats. The slats are easier to stow and, personally, I'm always happy to avoid the use of plywood when not necessary. I like the idea of dual purpose cockpit filler/cabin filler boards. That's one of the things I love about boats; how everything works two (or more) ways :-) One of the cleverest (not applicable here though) ideas I've seen was on a Baba 30 I crewed on. The wood under the port-side settee seat was a series of tongue-and-groove boards running athwartships, so when you pulled out on the seat-front fiddle, every other plank slid out and the tongues and grooves supported the whole thing. It only came out about a foot, so was plenty strong - even without legs - and a water tank was underneath, so no problems with inaccessible stowage. The funny thing was that the skipper had owned the boat almost two years, and had been musing over how to make a double berth in the main saloon. We'd also both been wondering why most of the settee bases were plywood, but this one was boards. One day in Port Townsend, Washington, a woman who also owned a Baba 30 stopped by and I ended up visiting her on her boat. She showed me *her* port-side settee pulling out. Was the skipper of the Baba I was on ever surprised when later on I pulled out his port-side settee with a flourish to reveal a double berth :-) Months later, in Florida, another Baba 30 owning couple saw us pull in and invited us over to see their boat and have a cup of coffee. They also didn't know about the pull-out double and said they'd been meaning to take out those silly boards and replace them with plywood so they could better access the few inches of stowage on top of the water tanks. They were equally amazed to see a double berth magically slide out. --- Rachel Former owner, M-17 #334 Former owner, M-15 #517 Currently cruising on Westsail 32 #412

Also, Tom Busca's outboard is on the port side. The galley is on the port side. The battery is on the port side. Do you see the pattern? I try to store only light items in the galley. Heavier canned goods go nearer the ctrline in a storage tub under the cockpit. Water is stored in 1 gal plastic jugs under the v-berth. Initially they are loaded to stbd but they tend to migrate to port... Tod