In a message dated 7/3/2005 7:08:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, LUDLOWD2@aol.com writes: I have the same problem on my M-15 (IE Heaving to while reefing). Hi Don, I've been getting in lots of sailing and practice in the past couple of weeks. Yesterday was a good example of doing it right. My neice was in the boat and when it came time to reef, we tacked, made all of the adjustments to tiller, main, etc and Tipperary just settled in and let me do as I wished (no rounding up). The day before yeasterday I had brought along a second anchor and rode, some more personal items and more boat gear to add maybe 150 pounds. I put everything heavy on the starboard side to help ballance the motor, other anchor, battery, etc. What I find is; Tipperary is happiest with a couple of people or with at least a few hundred pounds in her to react properly. Heaving to without weight wasn't very consistent, especially in winds above 10 - 15 knots. However, after I weighted her down a bit, she's happy and I am too. It seems weight is the key for Tipperary. Bill M-17
With the Montgomery boats there should not be a problem heaving to regardless of where the weight is. Heaving to is somewhat of a balancing act/art form but the basics should work all of the time. 1)cleat off the jib tight to the fairlead, 2)Tack leaving the jib cleated 3) hold the heading head to wind for a few seconds during the tack to take the speed off of the boat. 4) ease the mainsheet so that the boom is a foot or two off of the stern quarter and comlete the tack. 5) push the tiller as far to leward as possible on the new tack and tie it off. It is critical that the rudder be all the way to leward so that it acts as a brake and lets the boat burn any off any new energy trying to tack back when it has no momentum. The boat will creep forward makeing small attempts to come up to windward but not succeeding due the tiller braking action and the backwinded jib. My jiffy reefing is set up inboard of the end of the boom just so I can reach the reefing lines while hove to. Thanks Doug Kelch --- BILLAMICASR@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/3/2005 7:08:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, LUDLOWD2@aol.com writes: I have the same problem on my M-15 (IE Heaving to while reefing). Hi Don, I've been getting in lots of sailing and practice in the past couple of weeks. Yesterday was a good example of doing it right. My neice was in the boat and when it came time to reef, we tacked, made all of the adjustments to tiller, main, etc and Tipperary just settled in and let me do as I wished (no rounding up). The day before yeasterday I had brought along a second anchor and rode, some more personal items and more boat gear to add maybe 150 pounds. I put everything heavy on the starboard side to help ballance the motor, other anchor, battery, etc. What I find is; Tipperary is happiest with a couple of people or with at least a few hundred pounds in her to react properly. Heaving to without weight wasn't very consistent, especially in winds above 10 - 15 knots. However, after I weighted her down a bit, she's happy and I am too. It seems weight is the key for Tipperary. Bill M-17 _______________________________________________
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I have the same problem with my M-17 Heaving to. Mine is especially hard when I have the storm Jib out. Not enough sail to backwind properly, got that fixed since I installed a CDI Furler and am using the 110 jib. Love that thing for single handing. It is esp helpful in 2-3 foot chop and a head wind that buries the rail. BTW It is really scary to bury the rail, I usally sail with the CB up and when the wind starts to howl 20+ knots the wind puffs will bury the rails. I go into a pucker factor 5 mode and round up or dump the main. So far I have not had water come over the combing into the cockpit, but I can see that happening. How common is a knockdown on these boats? gilbert -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+gilbert=mindgame.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+gilbert=mindgame.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Doug Kelch Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 4:38 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Heaving To... With the Montgomery boats there should not be a problem heaving to regardless of where the weight is. Heaving to is somewhat of a balancing act/art form but the basics should work all of the time. 1)cleat off the jib tight to the fairlead, 2)Tack leaving the jib cleated 3) hold the heading head to wind for a few seconds during the tack to take the speed off of the boat. 4) ease the mainsheet so that the boom is a foot or two off of the stern quarter and comlete the tack. 5) push the tiller as far to leward as possible on the new tack and tie it off. It is critical that the rudder be all the way to leward so that it acts as a brake and lets the boat burn any off any new energy trying to tack back when it has no momentum. The boat will creep forward makeing small attempts to come up to windward but not succeeding due the tiller braking action and the backwinded jib. My jiffy reefing is set up inboard of the end of the boom just so I can reach the reefing lines while hove to. Thanks Doug Kelch --- BILLAMICASR@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/3/2005 7:08:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, LUDLOWD2@aol.com writes: I have the same problem on my M-15 (IE Heaving to while reefing). Hi Don, I've been getting in lots of sailing and practice in the past couple of weeks. Yesterday was a good example of doing it right. My neice was in the boat and when it came time to reef, we tacked, made all of the adjustments to tiller, main, etc and Tipperary just settled in and let me do as I wished (no rounding up). The day before yeasterday I had brought along a second anchor and rode, some more personal items and more boat gear to add maybe 150 pounds. I put everything heavy on the starboard side to help ballance the motor, other anchor, battery, etc. What I find is; Tipperary is happiest with a couple of people or with at least a few hundred pounds in her to react properly. Heaving to without weight wasn't very consistent, especially in winds above 10 - 15 knots. However, after I weighted her down a bit, she's happy and I am too. It seems weight is the key for Tipperary. Bill M-17 _______________________________________________
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How many reef points do you have in your main? I have two. On the old main without the battens, you could be in some pretty wild stuff and still be sailing relatively flat (head of sail would twist off), and fast with the 2nd reef and a storm jib (mine is about 60% as I recall). And she will still heave to in those conditions, but will want to fore reach if you don't have it right. I can't recall having ever buried the rail for any length of time. It gets wet at round 25 to 30 degrees of heel, at which point I have or will do something to get her back upright. She will sail faster and with less effort if she is in the 15 degree heel area. When I was testing my windvane, I took her out in 20 to 25 knots of wind, with gusts higher. She had the double reefed main, traveler to lee, and storm jib. Hard on the wind, she was heeling about 15 degrees and doing 5+ knots. On a broad reach, she would be sailing flat at 6 knots. I was shooting video and she was sailing herself. The knockdown is only likely if you are stopped or have rounded up and slowed down too much. And there are other ways to de-power the main. If you have a traveler, you can move it to the leeward side, and/or let out some mainsheet so that the sail twists off at the top. You can do the same thing with your jib, moving the sheeting point aft to tighten the foot, and let the head twist off to spill some wind. Essentially, the bottom half of the sail is the only thing pulling. It's less area and the center of effort is lower. If you have rolled up your 110 and still wallowing, roll it up all the way, tuck in your reefs and you should be able to survive some pretty fierce stuff. And if you have your board up, and trying to go to weather, you will be at it awhile. You will be sliding (making leeway) way off your mark...essentially, just sailing back and forth in the same area. Going to weather, put the board down. It also lowers the center of effort to keep you from heeling as much. And get everything in the cabin low and as forward as possible. Howard On 7/14/05 10:42 PM, "Gilbert Landin" <gilbert@mindgame.com> wrote:
I have the same problem with my M-17 Heaving to. Mine is especially hard when I have the storm Jib out. Not enough sail to backwind properly, got that fixed since I installed a CDI Furler and am using the 110 jib. Love that thing for single handing. It is esp helpful in 2-3 foot chop and a head wind that buries the rail. BTW It is really scary to bury the rail, I usally sail with the CB up and when the wind starts to howl 20+ knots the wind puffs will bury the rails. I go into a pucker factor 5 mode and round up or dump the main. So far I have not had water come over the combing into the cockpit, but I can see that happening. How common is a knockdown on these boats?
gilbert
Thanks howard, my m-17 has a small traveler but hard to adjust underway. I only have one reef point, its intresting to note that when the wind gets Above 20 knots I will be overpowered in the gusts, but if I reef its just a calm day at the beach and boring. However I kinda like boring at this point. gil -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+gilbert=mindgame.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+gilbert=mindgame.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Howard Audsley Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 7:23 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Heaving To... How many reef points do you have in your main? I have two. On the old main without the battens, you could be in some pretty wild stuff and still be sailing relatively flat (head of sail would twist off), and fast with the 2nd reef and a storm jib (mine is about 60% as I recall). And she will still heave to in those conditions, but will want to fore reach if you don't have it right. I can't recall having ever buried the rail for any length of time. It gets wet at round 25 to 30 degrees of heel, at which point I have or will do something to get her back upright. She will sail faster and with less effort if she is in the 15 degree heel area. When I was testing my windvane, I took her out in 20 to 25 knots of wind, with gusts higher. She had the double reefed main, traveler to lee, and storm jib. Hard on the wind, she was heeling about 15 degrees and doing 5+ knots. On a broad reach, she would be sailing flat at 6 knots. I was shooting video and she was sailing herself. The knockdown is only likely if you are stopped or have rounded up and slowed down too much. And there are other ways to de-power the main. If you have a traveler, you can move it to the leeward side, and/or let out some mainsheet so that the sail twists off at the top. You can do the same thing with your jib, moving the sheeting point aft to tighten the foot, and let the head twist off to spill some wind. Essentially, the bottom half of the sail is the only thing pulling. It's less area and the center of effort is lower. If you have rolled up your 110 and still wallowing, roll it up all the way, tuck in your reefs and you should be able to survive some pretty fierce stuff. And if you have your board up, and trying to go to weather, you will be at it awhile. You will be sliding (making leeway) way off your mark...essentially, just sailing back and forth in the same area. Going to weather, put the board down. It also lowers the center of effort to keep you from heeling as much. And get everything in the cabin low and as forward as possible. Howard On 7/14/05 10:42 PM, "Gilbert Landin" <gilbert@mindgame.com> wrote:
I have the same problem with my M-17 Heaving to. Mine is especially hard when I have the storm Jib out. Not enough sail to backwind properly, got that fixed since I installed a CDI Furler and am using the 110 jib. Love that thing for single handing. It is esp helpful in 2-3 foot chop and a head wind that buries the rail. BTW It is really scary to bury the rail, I usally sail with the CB up and when the wind starts to howl 20+ knots the wind puffs will bury the rails. I go into a pucker factor 5 mode and round up or dump the main. So far I have not had water come over the combing into the cockpit, but I can see that happening. How common is a knockdown on these boats?
gilbert
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Perhaps your one reef pt. is too deep? I really appreciate the roller reefing feature of my CDI Flexible Furler, which provides a quick, convenient way to "power down" ... ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilbert Landin To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: RE: M_Boats: Heaving To... Thanks howard, my m-17 has a small traveler but hard to adjust underway. I only have one reef point, its intresting to note that when the wind gets Above 20 knots I will be overpowered in the gusts, but if I reef its just a calm day at the beach and boring. However I kinda like boring at this point. gil -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+gilbert=mindgame.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+gilbert=mindgame.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Howard Audsley Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 7:23 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Heaving To... How many reef points do you have in your main? I have two. On the old main without the battens, you could be in some pretty wild stuff and still be sailing relatively flat (head of sail would twist off), and fast with the 2nd reef and a storm jib (mine is about 60% as I recall). And she will still heave to in those conditions, but will want to fore reach if you don't have it right. I can't recall having ever buried the rail for any length of time. It gets wet at round 25 to 30 degrees of heel, at which point I have or will do something to get her back upright. She will sail faster and with less effort if she is in the 15 degree heel area. When I was testing my windvane, I took her out in 20 to 25 knots of wind, with gusts higher. She had the double reefed main, traveler to lee, and storm jib. Hard on the wind, she was heeling about 15 degrees and doing 5+ knots. On a broad reach, she would be sailing flat at 6 knots. I was shooting video and she was sailing herself. The knockdown is only likely if you are stopped or have rounded up and slowed down too much. And there are other ways to de-power the main. If you have a traveler, you can move it to the leeward side, and/or let out some mainsheet so that the sail twists off at the top. You can do the same thing with your jib, moving the sheeting point aft to tighten the foot, and let the head twist off to spill some wind. Essentially, the bottom half of the sail is the only thing pulling. It's less area and the center of effort is lower. If you have rolled up your 110 and still wallowing, roll it up all the way, tuck in your reefs and you should be able to survive some pretty fierce stuff. And if you have your board up, and trying to go to weather, you will be at it awhile. You will be sliding (making leeway) way off your mark...essentially, just sailing back and forth in the same area. Going to weather, put the board down. It also lowers the center of effort to keep you from heeling as much. And get everything in the cabin low and as forward as possible. Howard On 7/14/05 10:42 PM, "Gilbert Landin" <gilbert@mindgame.com> wrote:
I have the same problem with my M-17 Heaving to. Mine is especially hard when I have the storm Jib out. Not enough sail to backwind properly, got that fixed since I installed a CDI Furler and am using the 110 jib. Love that thing for single handing. It is esp helpful in 2-3 foot chop and a head wind that buries the rail. BTW It is really scary to bury the rail, I usally sail with the CB up and when the wind starts to howl 20+ knots the wind puffs will bury the rails. I go into a pucker factor 5 mode and round up or dump the main. So far I have not had water come over the combing into the cockpit, but I can see that happening. How common is a knockdown on these boats?
gilbert
participants (5)
-
BILLAMICASRļ¼ aol.com -
Craig F. Honshell -
Doug Kelch -
Gilbert Landin -
Howard Audsley