Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
What model and what year Montgomery. Bob Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Doug Most likely the steel shot in the keel or board has expanded. You can most likely remove the old board and belt sand it a bit to make it thinner. Bob Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Thanks Bob. I am hoping its from debris being washed down the same hole as the keel control rope goes through. I have had some pretty serious tree junk go down that hole. I will go with that first before trying to remove the board. There is no lift within 4 hours of me.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:50 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> wrote:
Doug Most likely the steel shot in the keel or board has expanded. You can most likely remove the old board and belt sand it a bit to make it thinner.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Am I understanding that the board is made of wood. Guess so if it can be sanded. I thought it was some sort of metal for the purposes of ballast down low.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:50 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> wrote:
Doug Most likely the steel shot in the keel or board has expanded. You can most likely remove the old board and belt sand it a bit to make it thinner.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
No, it's fiberglass with a steel core. -----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:28 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck Am I understanding that the board is made of wood. Guess so if it can be sanded. I thought it was some sort of metal for the purposes of ballast down low.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:50 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> wrote:
Doug Most likely the steel shot in the keel or board has expanded. You can most likely remove the old board and belt sand it a bit to make it thinner.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
That helps. I had never actually seen it since its hidden up in the shoal keel cavity, or should I say stuck there.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:29 PM, <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
No, it's fiberglass with a steel core.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:28 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
Am I understanding that the board is made of wood. Guess so if it can be sanded. I thought it was some sort of metal for the purposes of ballast down low.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:50 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> wrote:
Doug Most likely the steel shot in the keel or board has expanded. You can most likely remove the old board and belt sand it a bit to make it thinner.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
I have removed the swing keel from a Mariner 19 by making a sling with a wide nylon strap, and lifting it using a huge maple and it's limb with a come along. Then a beam under the bow area, then slid the trailer out, then dropped the keel. With yours stuck with tree crud, I think the pressure washer idea previously stated might work great, also blasting from below if you can't get it from the hole above. Burt Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2018, at 3:42 PM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
That helps. I had never actually seen it since its hidden up in the shoal keel cavity, or should I say stuck there.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:29 PM, <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
No, it's fiberglass with a steel core.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:28 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
Am I understanding that the board is made of wood. Guess so if it can be sanded. I thought it was some sort of metal for the purposes of ballast down low.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:50 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> wrote:
Doug Most likely the steel shot in the keel or board has expanded. You can most likely remove the old board and belt sand it a bit to make it thinner.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? > > And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? > > Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised. In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure. I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time. The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck. Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years. Thanks Doug Kelch On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Relative to the swelling of the non stainless steel in the Keel. A little sanding does work. I lost my board 1/2 across Nantucket sound. I found a replacement and it was a little too tight, probably due to keel swelling. A little belt sanding did cure the issue. I used the local marina's sling hoist to raise the boat long enough to install the new board. The CB pin is steel but if it is stainless it may be hard to locate. On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Doug. What DougK wrote is very good. Rusting ballast shows itself in these ways (excluding a stuck centerboard): " Rust streaks running out of centerboard truck and /or keel * The keel has bulges resulting in the shoal keel no longer being uniform port to starboard. Does your M15 show any of the above? :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 12:10 PM Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
Relative to the swelling of the non stainless steel in the Keel. A little sanding does work. I lost my board 1/2 across Nantucket sound. I found a replacement and it was a little too tight, probably due to keel swelling. A little belt sanding did cure the issue. I used the local marina's sling hoist to raise the boat long enough to install the new board.
The CB pin is steel but if it is stainless it may be hard to locate.
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
No. My keel looks straight with no bulges nor rust streaks. I will check it again tomorrow. I think I will try my pressure washer first. If that doesn’t do it then I will resort to lifting the boat some to allow the keel to drop a bit if it does break loose. I even thought of donning my wet suit and mask and heading under it but that is closer to last resort and I don’t know what I would be looking for. I think I have to try to get the crud out first.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 7:20 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Doug.
What DougK wrote is very good.
Rusting ballast shows itself in these ways (excluding a stuck centerboard):
" Rust streaks running out of centerboard truck and /or keel * The keel has bulges resulting in the shoal keel no longer being uniform port to starboard.
Does your M15 show any of the above?
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 12:10 PM Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
Relative to the swelling of the non stainless steel in the Keel. A little sanding does work. I lost my board 1/2 across Nantucket sound. I found a replacement and it was a little too tight, probably due to keel swelling. A little belt sanding did cure the issue. I used the local marina's sling hoist to raise the boat long enough to install the new board.
The CB pin is steel but if it is stainless it may be hard to locate.
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
> On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? > > And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? > > Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
I think I will make a screen to fit around the rope that holds the keel up so that debris does not go down the drain and clog it up so the keel won’t drop. An easy preventative fix.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 7:20 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Doug.
What DougK wrote is very good.
Rusting ballast shows itself in these ways (excluding a stuck centerboard):
" Rust streaks running out of centerboard truck and /or keel * The keel has bulges resulting in the shoal keel no longer being uniform port to starboard.
Does your M15 show any of the above?
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 12:10 PM Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
Relative to the swelling of the non stainless steel in the Keel. A little sanding does work. I lost my board 1/2 across Nantucket sound. I found a replacement and it was a little too tight, probably due to keel swelling. A little belt sanding did cure the issue. I used the local marina's sling hoist to raise the boat long enough to install the new board.
The CB pin is steel but if it is stainless it may be hard to locate.
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
> On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? > > And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? > > Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Doug, The quick and easy solution would be to buy a couple of those ‘Chore Boys’ scrubbing pads. They are similar to Brillo pads but are made of a stainless metal material (won’t rust, no soap) and water passes right through and blocks everything else. They are easy to install and quick to remove. Just stuff one on either side of the CB pendent. I’ve been using them for years. Good luck Skip Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:00 PM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I think I will make a screen to fit around the rope that holds the keel up so that debris does not go down the drain and clog it up so the keel won’t drop. An easy preventative fix.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 7:20 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Doug.
What DougK wrote is very good.
Rusting ballast shows itself in these ways (excluding a stuck centerboard):
" Rust streaks running out of centerboard truck and /or keel * The keel has bulges resulting in the shoal keel no longer being uniform port to starboard.
Does your M15 show any of the above?
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 12:10 PM Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
Relative to the swelling of the non stainless steel in the Keel. A little sanding does work. I lost my board 1/2 across Nantucket sound. I found a replacement and it was a little too tight, probably due to keel swelling. A little belt sanding did cure the issue. I used the local marina's sling hoist to raise the boat long enough to install the new board.
The CB pin is steel but if it is stainless it may be hard to locate.
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
>> On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? >> >> And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? >> >> Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks >
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not. -----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Think I need the beer first. Wondered how many dudes it took to life a M-15. When out on the lake and trying to get the board down, I had the brilliant idea of using some motor oil which I had on board. I thought I could pour it down the hole and maybe it would loosen the junk up or make it more slippery, enough to head on down and out. Then I realized that if my Oregon tree hugger buddies knew I did that they would file charges for pollution of the environment. But looking around I saw about fifty fishing boats with the outboards spewing gas and oil discharge. I took my chances with my buddies and went for it to no avail.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:28 PM, <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Got the drop keel to drop! I used my pressure washer to wash out the debris that had accumulated in the hole that the line goes through for lowering and raising the drop keel. That small hole was clogged with tree debris from my very old Juniper tree. I had failed to put a tarp over the boat to prevent tree junk from getting into the cockpit. From the cockpit to the little drain hole went the debris and it actually stopped the drop keel from dropping….the line would not move. So after pressure washing from above and below, I took the boat out yesterday and voila! the drop keel dropped. Great relief! And thanks for all the ideas on how to remedy a stuck drop keel.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:28 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Great news Doug! Good old steel ballast not to be written off!! :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 11:06 AM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Got the drop keel to drop! I used my pressure washer to wash out the debris that had accumulated in the hole that the line goes through for lowering and raising the drop keel. That small hole was clogged with tree debris from my very old Juniper tree. I had failed to put a tarp over the boat to prevent tree junk from getting into the cockpit. From the cockpit to the little drain hole went the debris and it actually stopped the drop keel from dropping….the line would not move. So after pressure washing from above and below, I took the boat out yesterday and voila! the drop keel dropped. Great relief! And thanks for all the ideas on how to remedy a stuck drop keel.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:28 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto: montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? > > And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? > > Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
Sailed better? -----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 11:05 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck Got the drop keel to drop! I used my pressure washer to wash out the debris that had accumulated in the hole that the line goes through for lowering and raising the drop keel. That small hole was clogged with tree debris from my very old Juniper tree. I had failed to put a tarp over the boat to prevent tree junk from getting into the cockpit. From the cockpit to the little drain hole went the debris and it actually stopped the drop keel from dropping….the line would not move. So after pressure washing from above and below, I took the boat out yesterday and voila! the drop keel dropped. Great relief! And thanks for all the ideas on how to remedy a stuck drop keel.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:28 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
I'm sure that really felt good. And a good lesson learned about taking measures to prevent debris from going into the M15 cockpit drain! On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 11:06 doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Got the drop keel to drop! I used my pressure washer to wash out the debris that had accumulated in the hole that the line goes through for lowering and raising the drop keel. That small hole was clogged with tree debris from my very old Juniper tree. I had failed to put a tarp over the boat to prevent tree junk from getting into the cockpit. From the cockpit to the little drain hole went the debris and it actually stopped the drop keel from dropping….the line would not move. So after pressure washing from above and below, I took the boat out yesterday and voila! the drop keel dropped. Great relief! And thanks for all the ideas on how to remedy a stuck drop keel.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:28 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto: montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? > > And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? > > Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
So would this also work OK with an M-17 Jerry? Using some other lifting device like a jack on the keel line probably, but regardless of eight buddies or a jack or a hoist... And probably something thicker than 2x lumber. I assume the beams would be placed so the boat would sit on the flats fore and aft of the keel itself, yes? I thought of an alternative idea, which is to stack some pieces of 2x6 on top of the bunk boards, aligned with them, at fore & aft ends. Basically putting temporary spacers on top of the bunk boards to hold the boat up higher. Lift fore, place boards, lift aft, place boards, then repeat if more lift needed. I'd use 1 1/2 to 2 ft lengths so load is not concentrated on one spot on the hull anywhere. Reasonable? Crazy? Anyone try this before? I need a DIY way to raise the boat enough on the trailer to get the CB down so I can inspect the shackle & pennant, and R&R if/as necessary. The CB does not go all the way up into the keel. I can see that the pennant knot jams up against the underside of the hole in the trunk, with the CB still sticking down a bit. I imagine a longer than necessary shackle, and/or a fatter than necessary knot (my pennant is quite thick line). Plus I have no idea what the condition of the shackle is, so want to d a "safety inspection." I have seen some various other approaches, like digging a hole under the keel, sliding the boat aft on the trailer, some of both...none are an option in my particular storage situation. thanks, John S. On 08/01/2018 12:28 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Sure, but obviously you'd need more muscle. -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 12:41 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Raising M17 on trailer (was Re: Drop keel stuck) So would this also work OK with an M-17 Jerry? Using some other lifting device like a jack on the keel line probably, but regardless of eight buddies or a jack or a hoist... And probably something thicker than 2x lumber. I assume the beams would be placed so the boat would sit on the flats fore and aft of the keel itself, yes? I thought of an alternative idea, which is to stack some pieces of 2x6 on top of the bunk boards, aligned with them, at fore & aft ends. Basically putting temporary spacers on top of the bunk boards to hold the boat up higher. Lift fore, place boards, lift aft, place boards, then repeat if more lift needed. I'd use 1 1/2 to 2 ft lengths so load is not concentrated on one spot on the hull anywhere. Reasonable? Crazy? Anyone try this before? I need a DIY way to raise the boat enough on the trailer to get the CB down so I can inspect the shackle & pennant, and R&R if/as necessary. The CB does not go all the way up into the keel. I can see that the pennant knot jams up against the underside of the hole in the trunk, with the CB still sticking down a bit. I imagine a longer than necessary shackle, and/or a fatter than necessary knot (my pennant is quite thick line). Plus I have no idea what the condition of the shackle is, so want to d a "safety inspection." I have seen some various other approaches, like digging a hole under the keel, sliding the boat aft on the trailer, some of both...none are an option in my particular storage situation. thanks, John S. On 08/01/2018 12:28 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Here is what I did on my M17: 1) pulled the trailer up onto some ramps 2) disconnected trailer from tow vehicle 3) lowered tongue of trailer as close to the ground as possible 4) now with the stern as high as possible, I built up supports for it with lumber 5) next I jacked the tongue of the trailer until bow and stern we're about level. At this point the stern is no longer touching the bunk boards 6) I then built a support forward of the keel far enough to able to move the trailer forward at the end of the lifting process 7) now with fore and aft supported, I lowered the tongue so the boat rested entirely on the supports I had built 8) next I placed Jack's under the trailer and raised it enough to pull the ramps out and then lowered the trailer to the ground 9) now I could roll the trailer forward enough to lower the centerboard sufficiently to replace the pennant. (After driving out the stop pin of course) 10) reverse the process to get the boat back on the trailer. Kind of an involved process but I didn't have any kind of a hoist or heavy equipment to lift the boat. I just went slowly and carefully, thinking through each step and checking that everything was safe and secure before proceeding to the next. Mark Dvorscak former M17 owner On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 12:42 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
So would this also work OK with an M-17 Jerry?
Using some other lifting device like a jack on the keel line probably, but regardless of eight buddies or a jack or a hoist...
And probably something thicker than 2x lumber.
I assume the beams would be placed so the boat would sit on the flats fore and aft of the keel itself, yes?
I thought of an alternative idea, which is to stack some pieces of 2x6 on top of the bunk boards, aligned with them, at fore & aft ends. Basically putting temporary spacers on top of the bunk boards to hold the boat up higher. Lift fore, place boards, lift aft, place boards, then repeat if more lift needed. I'd use 1 1/2 to 2 ft lengths so load is not concentrated on one spot on the hull anywhere.
Reasonable? Crazy? Anyone try this before?
I need a DIY way to raise the boat enough on the trailer to get the CB down so I can inspect the shackle & pennant, and R&R if/as necessary. The CB does not go all the way up into the keel. I can see that the pennant knot jams up against the underside of the hole in the trunk, with the CB still sticking down a bit. I imagine a longer than necessary shackle, and/or a fatter than necessary knot (my pennant is quite thick line). Plus I have no idea what the condition of the shackle is, so want to d a "safety inspection."
I have seen some various other approaches, like digging a hole under the keel, sliding the boat aft on the trailer, some of both...none are an option in my particular storage situation.
thanks, John S.
On 08/01/2018 12:28 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com > <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? > > And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more > room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? > > Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Years ago I delivered a 17 to Texas, on top of the truck because the buyer was a welder and made his own trailer. We lifted the boat off the truck with the aid of a big oak tree and a couple of come-a-longs! I stopped trimming my toenails after that to make it easier to climb trees. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Dvorscak Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 3:56 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising M17 on trailer (was Re: Drop keel stuck) Here is what I did on my M17: 1) pulled the trailer up onto some ramps 2) disconnected trailer from tow vehicle 3) lowered tongue of trailer as close to the ground as possible 4) now with the stern as high as possible, I built up supports for it with lumber 5) next I jacked the tongue of the trailer until bow and stern we're about level. At this point the stern is no longer touching the bunk boards 6) I then built a support forward of the keel far enough to able to move the trailer forward at the end of the lifting process 7) now with fore and aft supported, I lowered the tongue so the boat rested entirely on the supports I had built 8) next I placed Jack's under the trailer and raised it enough to pull the ramps out and then lowered the trailer to the ground 9) now I could roll the trailer forward enough to lower the centerboard sufficiently to replace the pennant. (After driving out the stop pin of course) 10) reverse the process to get the boat back on the trailer. Kind of an involved process but I didn't have any kind of a hoist or heavy equipment to lift the boat. I just went slowly and carefully, thinking through each step and checking that everything was safe and secure before proceeding to the next. Mark Dvorscak former M17 owner On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 12:42 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
So would this also work OK with an M-17 Jerry?
Using some other lifting device like a jack on the keel line probably, but regardless of eight buddies or a jack or a hoist...
And probably something thicker than 2x lumber.
I assume the beams would be placed so the boat would sit on the flats fore and aft of the keel itself, yes?
I thought of an alternative idea, which is to stack some pieces of 2x6 on top of the bunk boards, aligned with them, at fore & aft ends. Basically putting temporary spacers on top of the bunk boards to hold the boat up higher. Lift fore, place boards, lift aft, place boards, then repeat if more lift needed. I'd use 1 1/2 to 2 ft lengths so load is not concentrated on one spot on the hull anywhere.
Reasonable? Crazy? Anyone try this before?
I need a DIY way to raise the boat enough on the trailer to get the CB down so I can inspect the shackle & pennant, and R&R if/as necessary. The CB does not go all the way up into the keel. I can see that the pennant knot jams up against the underside of the hole in the trunk, with the CB still sticking down a bit. I imagine a longer than necessary shackle, and/or a fatter than necessary knot (my pennant is quite thick line). Plus I have no idea what the condition of the shackle is, so want to d a "safety inspection."
I have seen some various other approaches, like digging a hole under the keel, sliding the boat aft on the trailer, some of both...none are an option in my particular storage situation.
thanks, John S.
On 08/01/2018 12:28 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Doug- get about four buddies and some beer, lift up the front of the boat enough to stick a 2X6 across the front of the bunks. lash it in p[lace, and do it to the back. Be sure and lash the 2X6's in place to avoid surprises. You might need a 1/2" rod down thru the drain holes to get the board started. Some dishwater soap might help. Or not.
-----Original Message----- From: doug Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:24 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck
This is probably the answer. A lot of tree junk has fallen into the cockpit and I washed it down that drain hole. Didn’t realize it could jam the keel. Now to unjam it. You are right, the 90 degree angle to get into that hole the junk washed down, and the keel rope goes through is a tough one. How about a pressure washer hose going into the 1/2” hole. Maybe that could force the junk loose. Trouble is I won’t know if its loose or not unless/until the boat is in the water again. Guess I have to build my own lake.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Douglas Kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised.
In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure.
I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time.
The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck.
Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com > <mailto:doug9326@gmail.com> <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions? > > And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more > room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that? > > Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Just a warning, if it doesn't come down with relatively light force, there is a more powerful method that involves making a screw extractor pulling down from the bottom, which is the method I used for my '81 M15. I tried pushing down hard from the top with a steel rod and a sledge hammer, and caused a lot of extra damage to the keel trunk, which was very hard to fix- I wish I had just built the screw extractor from the beginning. There are more photos and details on this that have been posted before if you search the archives. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "doug1kelch" <doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 12:01:00 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drop keel stuck The cockpit drains through the same hole the CB Line goes through an it is about 1/2, maybe a little smaller wide. Debris from the cockpit can wash down the hole and can jamb the board. Small floating things like acorns, twigs, loose screws, and clevis rings will be trapped between the CB and the wall. Trailering it will fix it in place. If the debris continues down when the board is lowered and it floats it can jamb the board when raised. In order to free up the board without raising the boat there is a progression of steps you can try from the cockpit. There is a small wooden splash guard over the cockpit drain hole. if you remove the screws (4 of them, 2 covered by teak bungs) holding this in place you may be able to push the board down with a 3/8" pvc rod. If I recall there is not much leverage as the space under the bridge deck board is limited. You can make a sectioned pvc pipe with bungee chord like a tent pole sections and get the push rod more vertical. You need enough space between the bridge deck board and the pvc to slide in a board that you can step on to get some pressure. I did not make the tool I described above and ended up drilling a 3/4 in hole in the bridge deck board behind the CB line. Not the best solution but I could hold a 2"x4" on top of the rod while I sat on it and bounced lightly. This worked almost every time. The one time it did not work the problem was caused by excessive heeling in a debris filled lake (flash flooding in the creeks filled the lake with #@$#$%). A piece of debris got into the the CB well when excessively heeled and would not let me raise the board. IT WAS STUCK DOWN. The only way I could get the boat out of the water without hiring a long fork lift was to just Jamb the board up as it went on the trailer. Cost $$ to that one unstuck. Love the M15, Cruised mine extensively for 18 years. Thanks Doug Kelch On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Up until now, the drop keel has worked fine. Not sure why it would change. Didn’t run aground! Didn’t have it drop onto the trailer either. But it has to be fixed soon since it great sailing weather. I still sailed Sunday without the drop keel and the boat did great in 10kts.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:01 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh yea. Its a 1980 M-15.
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com <mailto:montgomeryboats@hotmail.com>> wrote:
What model and what year Montgomery.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2018, at 10:47 AM, doug <doug9326@gmail.com <mailto: doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote:
Went sailing on a perfect day Sunday. Until I tried to drop the keel/daggerboard/centerboard/??? and it did not go down. Just stayed in the retracted position. So other than just crawling under the boat on the trailer and fiddling with that thing, are there other thoughts/ideas/solutions?
And if I want to raise the boat some from the trailer to get more room to work and for the board to drop down some, is there a right and wrong way to do that. I was going to use a jack under the forward end of the shoal draft keel and jack up the boat maybe 8 inches that way. Can that shoal draft keel support some weight like that?
Sure is nice to have a forum like this for newbies like me. Thanks
participants (10)
-
Bob Eeg -
Burton Lowry -
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Dave Scobie -
doug -
Douglas Kelch -
jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org -
John Schinnerer -
Mark Dvorscak -
Skip Campion