Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things. I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California
Hi Ken, I think I can help with question #4. Best I know all M15 have the same size centerboard. The earlier M15's used lead shot as centerboard ballast whereas the newer 15 used a sheet of lead between two sheets of fiberglass. Incidentally, the 15 centerboard is also the same cb as used on the newer 17's. Our 17 had centerboard damage from the boat riding too low on the trailer as you described. In our case the cb stuck out and inch or so below the cb trunk and took all the brunt of the pot holes. The cb was damaged beyond repair but no damage to the trunk or keel. Randy Graves Former M15 #410 Current M17 #407 On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Ken Wheeler <wesi@comcast.net> wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hi Randy, Thanks for the help I knew I could count on the user group; ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.K.Graves" <rkgraves@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 6:14:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: M_Boats: Help with M15 keel damage Hi Ken, I think I can help with question #4. Best I know all M15 have the same size centerboard. The earlier M15's used lead shot as centerboard ballast whereas the newer 15 used a sheet of lead between two sheets of fiberglass. Incidentally, the 15 centerboard is also the same cb as used on the newer 17's. Our 17 had centerboard damage from the boat riding too low on the trailer as you described. In our case the cb stuck out and inch or so below the cb trunk and took all the brunt of the pot holes. The cb was damaged beyond repair but no damage to the trunk or keel. Randy Graves Former M15 #410 Current M17 #407 On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Ken Wheeler <wesi@comcast.net> wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
x-authenticated : Sender SMTP authenticated by smtp.gotrain.org X-XM-SPF: eid=;;;mid=;;;hst=mx03.mta.xmission.com;;;ip=69.54.158.25;;;frm=bill@gotrain.org;;;spf=none X-XM-DomainKey: sender_domain=gotrain.org;;;sender=bill@gotrain.org;;;status=no signature X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 69.54.158.25 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bill@gotrain.org X-Spam-DCC: XMission; sa03 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on sa03.xmission.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_00,DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE, MISSING_HB_SEP,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG,XM_Body_Dirty_Words autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Combo: ;For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> X-Spam-Relay-Country: XX US X-Spam-Report: * 2.5 MISSING_HB_SEP Missing blank line between message header and body * 0.0 T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG BODY: T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG * -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * -0.0 DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE Not listed in DCC * [sa03 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1] * 0.5 XM_Body_Dirty_Words Contains a dirty word Subject: Re: M_Boats: Help with M15 keel damage X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:26:12 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mx03.mta.xmission.com) Hi Ken, Congratulations on selling the 17, and hope you find a nice 15. To answer your questions, as well as I can. 1. Never seen damage like this before. Sounds like it may have sustained some extensive structural problems. I would have a boat surveyor look at the damage, if you are seriously considering this boat. It might be more trouble than it's worth. 2. You should be able to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins it by looking in the cockpit storage areas. On my boat, they're both cut out and you can see the inner hull on both sides. Some 15's have shallow storage compartments, and the only way to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins is to Lie on the cabin sole and use a flashlight and a mirror, probably on a stick. The cracks on the outer hull might show up on the inside if the damage was really severe. That might be a reason to avoid this boat, unless you're prepared for a big repair job. The price might help make your decision here. 3. Yes. That depression should be there. That's the 15's version of a bilge. It's also a good wine cellar, in a tight. 4. The centerboards on all 15's were basically the same, I believe, other than minor construction details. The weight, shape, and method of operation were the same. 5. I'm not sure about the mast crutch, but I think it was optional. Mine came with my boat from the factory, but I think I paid extra for it. I've also seen a lot of home made ones. Mine from the factory, is a straight stainless tube with a "Y" on the top to hold the mast. It slips into the same gudgeons that support the rudder. The front of the mast is supported by a rubber "Y" above the winch on top of an upright structure on the trailer. One way or another, you need a front and rear support for trailering the boat. It sounds to me like this boat was abused, and used in a careless manner. Unless it's really cheap, and you're willing to take on a project boat, I think I'd pass on this one. Of course, you can always make a better decision based on actually looking at the boat, than I can just hearing about it. Either way, good luck, Bill Day M-15, 363, "Gee Whiz!", Ken Wheeler wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hi Bill, Good to hear from you and I appreciate your thoughts and help. This boat doesn't have the cut-outs in the cockpit lockers and I was wondering if I could in through there. From what you say it looks like they area of possible damage would be accessible if I cut out the locker bottoms. I can't figure out how he has been stepping the mast without the rear mast crutch. Like I said he hasn't sailed the boat for a long time and it may just be that it has been misplaced. I think the boat would need some extensive repairs before it could be sailed but I am glad to get the opinions of more experienced M15 sailors. Thanks, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill "C" Day" <bill@gotrain.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:33 PM Subject: M_Boats: (no subject)
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Hi Ken,
Congratulations on selling the 17, and hope you find a nice 15.
To answer your questions, as well as I can.
1. Never seen damage like this before. Sounds like it may have sustained some extensive structural problems. I would have a boat surveyor look at the damage, if you are seriously considering this boat. It might be more trouble than it's worth.
2. You should be able to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins it by looking in the cockpit storage areas. On my boat, they're both cut out and you can see the inner hull on both sides. Some 15's have shallow storage compartments, and the only way to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins is to Lie on the cabin sole and use a flashlight and a mirror, probably on a stick. The cracks on the outer hull might show up on the inside if the damage was really severe. That might be a reason to avoid this boat, unless you're prepared for a big repair job. The price might help make your decision here.
3. Yes. That depression should be there. That's the 15's version of a bilge. It's also a good wine cellar, in a tight.
4. The centerboards on all 15's were basically the same, I believe, other than minor construction details. The weight, shape, and method of operation were the same.
5. I'm not sure about the mast crutch, but I think it was optional. Mine came with my boat from the factory, but I think I paid extra for it. I've also seen a lot of home made ones. Mine from the factory, is a straight stainless tube with a "Y" on the top to hold the mast. It slips into the same gudgeons that support the rudder. The front of the mast is supported by a rubber "Y" above the winch on top of an upright structure on the trailer. One way or another, you need a front and rear support for trailering the boat.
It sounds to me like this boat was abused, and used in a careless manner. Unless it's really cheap, and you're willing to take on a project boat, I think I'd pass on this one. Of course, you can always make a better decision based on actually looking at the boat, than I can just hearing about it.
Either way, good luck,
Bill Day M-15, 363, "Gee Whiz!", Ken Wheeler wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Ken, are you in CA? By any chance is this boat around Sacatomatoes? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Wheeler" <wesi@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Hi Bill, Good to hear from you and I appreciate your thoughts and help. This boat doesn't have the cut-outs in the cockpit lockers and I was wondering if I could in through there. From what you say it looks like they area of possible damage would be accessible if I cut out the locker bottoms. I can't figure out how he has been stepping the mast without the rear mast crutch. Like I said he hasn't sailed the boat for a long time and it may just be that it has been misplaced. I think the boat would need some extensive repairs before it could be sailed but I am glad to get the opinions of more experienced M15 sailors. Thanks, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill "C" Day" <bill@gotrain.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:33 PM Subject: M_Boats: (no subject)
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Hi Ken,
Congratulations on selling the 17, and hope you find a nice 15.
To answer your questions, as well as I can.
1. Never seen damage like this before. Sounds like it may have sustained some extensive structural problems. I would have a boat surveyor look at the damage, if you are seriously considering this boat. It might be more trouble than it's worth.
2. You should be able to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins it by looking in the cockpit storage areas. On my boat, they're both cut out and you can see the inner hull on both sides. Some 15's have shallow storage compartments, and the only way to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins is to Lie on the cabin sole and use a flashlight and a mirror, probably on a stick. The cracks on the outer hull might show up on the inside if the damage was really severe. That might be a reason to avoid this boat, unless you're prepared for a big repair job. The price might help make your decision here.
3. Yes. That depression should be there. That's the 15's version of a bilge. It's also a good wine cellar, in a tight.
4. The centerboards on all 15's were basically the same, I believe, other than minor construction details. The weight, shape, and method of operation were the same.
5. I'm not sure about the mast crutch, but I think it was optional. Mine came with my boat from the factory, but I think I paid extra for it. I've also seen a lot of home made ones. Mine from the factory, is a straight stainless tube with a "Y" on the top to hold the mast. It slips into the same gudgeons that support the rudder. The front of the mast is supported by a rubber "Y" above the winch on top of an upright structure on the trailer. One way or another, you need a front and rear support for trailering the boat.
It sounds to me like this boat was abused, and used in a careless manner. Unless it's really cheap, and you're willing to take on a project boat, I think I'd pass on this one. Of course, you can always make a better decision based on actually looking at the boat, than I can just hearing about it.
Either way, good luck,
Bill Day M-15, 363, "Gee Whiz!", Ken Wheeler wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Wow, what a guy! You won't find a better M-boat surveyor than the designer and builder! Gordon On Jun 3, 2009, at 8:07 AM, jerry wrote:
Ken, are you in CA? By any chance is this boat around Sacatomatoes? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Wheeler" <wesi@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Hi Bill, Good to hear from you and I appreciate your thoughts and help. This boat doesn't have the cut-outs in the cockpit lockers and I was wondering if I could in through there. From what you say it looks like they area of possible damage would be accessible if I cut out the locker bottoms. I can't figure out how he has been stepping the mast without the rear mast crutch. Like I said he hasn't sailed the boat for a long time and it may just be that it has been misplaced. I think the boat would need some extensive repairs before it could be sailed but I am glad to get the opinions of more experienced M15 sailors. Thanks, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill "C" Day" <bill@gotrain.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:33 PM Subject: M_Boats: (no subject)
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Hi Ken,
Congratulations on selling the 17, and hope you find a nice 15.
To answer your questions, as well as I can.
1. Never seen damage like this before. Sounds like it may have sustained some extensive structural problems. I would have a boat surveyor look at the damage, if you are seriously considering this boat. It might be more trouble than it's worth.
2. You should be able to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins it by looking in the cockpit storage areas. On my boat, they're both cut out and you can see the inner hull on both sides. Some 15's have shallow storage compartments, and the only way to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins is to Lie on the cabin sole and use a flashlight and a mirror, probably on a stick. The cracks on the outer hull might show up on the inside if the damage was really severe. That might be a reason to avoid this boat, unless you're prepared for a big repair job. The price might help make your decision here.
3. Yes. That depression should be there. That's the 15's version of a bilge. It's also a good wine cellar, in a tight.
4. The centerboards on all 15's were basically the same, I believe, other than minor construction details. The weight, shape, and method of operation were the same.
5. I'm not sure about the mast crutch, but I think it was optional. Mine came with my boat from the factory, but I think I paid extra for it. I've also seen a lot of home made ones. Mine from the factory, is a straight stainless tube with a "Y" on the top to hold the mast. It slips into the same gudgeons that support the rudder. The front of the mast is supported by a rubber "Y" above the winch on top of an upright structure on the trailer. One way or another, you need a front and rear support for trailering the boat.
It sounds to me like this boat was abused, and used in a careless manner. Unless it's really cheap, and you're willing to take on a project boat, I think I'd pass on this one. Of course, you can always make a better decision based on actually looking at the boat, than I can just hearing about it.
Either way, good luck,
Bill Day M-15, 363, "Gee Whiz!", Ken Wheeler wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Jerry, I'm in Windsor the boat is on the Peninsula south of San Francisco. The cracking looks minor and fresh, about the size of a silver dollar on both sides of the keel right where it joins the hull and directly above the rear keel roller. Unfortunately I couldn't see that area from inside the boat. The cockpit lockers are both intact and haven't had the bottoms removed. The owner is a great guy but older and hasn't sailed the boat for quite a while and his memory isn't what it once was.. He doesn't think he trailed it without a rear strap but I think he probably did trail it with the old Evinrude outboard on the bracket. The boat is sitting kind of off the rollers and looks like it is pretty much supported on the high part of the rear roller. I can't say how great it is to have 30 year old boats where the original builder (and designer) takes an active interest in the boats and their owners. I know that would be a long trip for you but if you have the time and inclination to see the boat I could arrange it and of course compensate you for your time and expenses. You can, if you would like, contact me off this forum at wesi@comcast.net or call at 707-837-7564. Thanks for all your interest and these great boats, Ken Wheeler ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 6:07 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Ken, are you in CA? By any chance is this boat around Sacatomatoes? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Wheeler" <wesi@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Hi Bill, Good to hear from you and I appreciate your thoughts and help. This boat doesn't have the cut-outs in the cockpit lockers and I was wondering if I could in through there. From what you say it looks like they area of possible damage would be accessible if I cut out the locker bottoms. I can't figure out how he has been stepping the mast without the rear mast crutch. Like I said he hasn't sailed the boat for a long time and it may just be that it has been misplaced. I think the boat would need some extensive repairs before it could be sailed but I am glad to get the opinions of more experienced M15 sailors. Thanks, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill "C" Day" <bill@gotrain.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:33 PM Subject: M_Boats: (no subject)
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Hi Ken,
Congratulations on selling the 17, and hope you find a nice 15.
To answer your questions, as well as I can.
1. Never seen damage like this before. Sounds like it may have sustained some extensive structural problems. I would have a boat surveyor look at the damage, if you are seriously considering this boat. It might be more trouble than it's worth.
2. You should be able to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins it by looking in the cockpit storage areas. On my boat, they're both cut out and you can see the inner hull on both sides. Some 15's have shallow storage compartments, and the only way to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins is to Lie on the cabin sole and use a flashlight and a mirror, probably on a stick. The cracks on the outer hull might show up on the inside if the damage was really severe. That might be a reason to avoid this boat, unless you're prepared for a big repair job. The price might help make your decision here.
3. Yes. That depression should be there. That's the 15's version of a bilge. It's also a good wine cellar, in a tight.
4. The centerboards on all 15's were basically the same, I believe, other than minor construction details. The weight, shape, and method of operation were the same.
5. I'm not sure about the mast crutch, but I think it was optional. Mine came with my boat from the factory, but I think I paid extra for it. I've also seen a lot of home made ones. Mine from the factory, is a straight stainless tube with a "Y" on the top to hold the mast. It slips into the same gudgeons that support the rudder. The front of the mast is supported by a rubber "Y" above the winch on top of an upright structure on the trailer. One way or another, you need a front and rear support for trailering the boat.
It sounds to me like this boat was abused, and used in a careless manner. Unless it's really cheap, and you're willing to take on a project boat, I think I'd pass on this one. Of course, you can always make a better decision based on actually looking at the boat, than I can just hearing about it.
Either way, good luck,
Bill Day M-15, 363, "Gee Whiz!", Ken Wheeler wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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I have sprint races (outrigger canoes), mostly in the Bay area, going on all summer. I don't have a schedual handy, but I know that the first two races are here at Lake Natoma, then they move to the Bay area. So roughly a month sounds reasonable if it fits your timing. I'll contact you offline when I know more. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Wheeler" <wesi@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:19 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Jerry, I'm in Windsor the boat is on the Peninsula south of San Francisco. The cracking looks minor and fresh, about the size of a silver dollar on both sides of the keel right where it joins the hull and directly above the rear keel roller. Unfortunately I couldn't see that area from inside the boat. The cockpit lockers are both intact and haven't had the bottoms removed. The owner is a great guy but older and hasn't sailed the boat for quite a while and his memory isn't what it once was.. He doesn't think he trailed it without a rear strap but I think he probably did trail it with the old Evinrude outboard on the bracket. The boat is sitting kind of off the rollers and looks like it is pretty much supported on the high part of the rear roller. I can't say how great it is to have 30 year old boats where the original builder (and designer) takes an active interest in the boats and their owners. I know that would be a long trip for you but if you have the time and inclination to see the boat I could arrange it and of course compensate you for your time and expenses. You can, if you would like, contact me off this forum at wesi@comcast.net or call at 707-837-7564. Thanks for all your interest and these great boats, Ken Wheeler
----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 6:07 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Ken, are you in CA? By any chance is this boat around Sacatomatoes? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Wheeler" <wesi@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Hi Bill, Good to hear from you and I appreciate your thoughts and help. This boat doesn't have the cut-outs in the cockpit lockers and I was wondering if I could in through there. From what you say it looks like they area of possible damage would be accessible if I cut out the locker bottoms. I can't figure out how he has been stepping the mast without the rear mast crutch. Like I said he hasn't sailed the boat for a long time and it may just be that it has been misplaced. I think the boat would need some extensive repairs before it could be sailed but I am glad to get the opinions of more experienced M15 sailors. Thanks, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill "C" Day" <bill@gotrain.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:33 PM Subject: M_Boats: (no subject)
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Hi Ken,
Congratulations on selling the 17, and hope you find a nice 15.
To answer your questions, as well as I can.
1. Never seen damage like this before. Sounds like it may have sustained some extensive structural problems. I would have a boat surveyor look at the damage, if you are seriously considering this boat. It might be more trouble than it's worth.
2. You should be able to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins it by looking in the cockpit storage areas. On my boat, they're both cut out and you can see the inner hull on both sides. Some 15's have shallow storage compartments, and the only way to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins is to Lie on the cabin sole and use a flashlight and a mirror, probably on a stick. The cracks on the outer hull might show up on the inside if the damage was really severe. That might be a reason to avoid this boat, unless you're prepared for a big repair job. The price might help make your decision here.
3. Yes. That depression should be there. That's the 15's version of a bilge. It's also a good wine cellar, in a tight.
4. The centerboards on all 15's were basically the same, I believe, other than minor construction details. The weight, shape, and method of operation were the same.
5. I'm not sure about the mast crutch, but I think it was optional. Mine came with my boat from the factory, but I think I paid extra for it. I've also seen a lot of home made ones. Mine from the factory, is a straight stainless tube with a "Y" on the top to hold the mast. It slips into the same gudgeons that support the rudder. The front of the mast is supported by a rubber "Y" above the winch on top of an upright structure on the trailer. One way or another, you need a front and rear support for trailering the boat.
It sounds to me like this boat was abused, and used in a careless manner. Unless it's really cheap, and you're willing to take on a project boat, I think I'd pass on this one. Of course, you can always make a better decision based on actually looking at the boat, than I can just hearing about it.
Either way, good luck,
Bill Day M-15, 363, "Gee Whiz!", Ken Wheeler wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Jerry, That sounds good. Let me know when you can make it and if I haven't bought another boat we'll do it. Even if I have moved on by then I will call the owner as I'm sure he would want your expert opinion. Thanks again for all your efforts on our behalf, ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:53 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
I have sprint races (outrigger canoes), mostly in the Bay area, going on all summer. I don't have a schedual handy, but I know that the first two races are here at Lake Natoma, then they move to the Bay area. So roughly a month sounds reasonable if it fits your timing. I'll contact you offline when I know more.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Wheeler" <wesi@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:19 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Jerry, I'm in Windsor the boat is on the Peninsula south of San Francisco. The cracking looks minor and fresh, about the size of a silver dollar on both sides of the keel right where it joins the hull and directly above the rear keel roller. Unfortunately I couldn't see that area from inside the boat. The cockpit lockers are both intact and haven't had the bottoms removed. The owner is a great guy but older and hasn't sailed the boat for quite a while and his memory isn't what it once was.. He doesn't think he trailed it without a rear strap but I think he probably did trail it with the old Evinrude outboard on the bracket. The boat is sitting kind of off the rollers and looks like it is pretty much supported on the high part of the rear roller. I can't say how great it is to have 30 year old boats where the original builder (and designer) takes an active interest in the boats and their owners. I know that would be a long trip for you but if you have the time and inclination to see the boat I could arrange it and of course compensate you for your time and expenses. You can, if you would like, contact me off this forum at wesi@comcast.net or call at 707-837-7564. Thanks for all your interest and these great boats, Ken Wheeler
----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 6:07 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Ken, are you in CA? By any chance is this boat around Sacatomatoes? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Wheeler" <wesi@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
Hi Bill, Good to hear from you and I appreciate your thoughts and help. This boat doesn't have the cut-outs in the cockpit lockers and I was wondering if I could in through there. From what you say it looks like they area of possible damage would be accessible if I cut out the locker bottoms. I can't figure out how he has been stepping the mast without the rear mast crutch. Like I said he hasn't sailed the boat for a long time and it may just be that it has been misplaced. I think the boat would need some extensive repairs before it could be sailed but I am glad to get the opinions of more experienced M15 sailors. Thanks, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill "C" Day" <bill@gotrain.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:33 PM Subject: M_Boats: (no subject)
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Hi Ken,
Congratulations on selling the 17, and hope you find a nice 15.
To answer your questions, as well as I can.
1. Never seen damage like this before. Sounds like it may have sustained some extensive structural problems. I would have a boat surveyor look at the damage, if you are seriously considering this boat. It might be more trouble than it's worth.
2. You should be able to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins it by looking in the cockpit storage areas. On my boat, they're both cut out and you can see the inner hull on both sides. Some 15's have shallow storage compartments, and the only way to see the inside of the hull where the keel joins is to Lie on the cabin sole and use a flashlight and a mirror, probably on a stick. The cracks on the outer hull might show up on the inside if the damage was really severe. That might be a reason to avoid this boat, unless you're prepared for a big repair job. The price might help make your decision here.
3. Yes. That depression should be there. That's the 15's version of a bilge. It's also a good wine cellar, in a tight.
4. The centerboards on all 15's were basically the same, I believe, other than minor construction details. The weight, shape, and method of operation were the same.
5. I'm not sure about the mast crutch, but I think it was optional. Mine came with my boat from the factory, but I think I paid extra for it. I've also seen a lot of home made ones. Mine from the factory, is a straight stainless tube with a "Y" on the top to hold the mast. It slips into the same gudgeons that support the rudder. The front of the mast is supported by a rubber "Y" above the winch on top of an upright structure on the trailer. One way or another, you need a front and rear support for trailering the boat.
It sounds to me like this boat was abused, and used in a careless manner. Unless it's really cheap, and you're willing to take on a project boat, I think I'd pass on this one. Of course, you can always make a better decision based on actually looking at the boat, than I can just hearing about it.
Either way, good luck,
Bill Day M-15, 363, "Gee Whiz!", Ken Wheeler wrote:
Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things.
I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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participants (6)
-
Bill "C" Day -
Gordon Gilbert -
jerry -
Ken Wheeler -
R.K.Graves -
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