Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15
Thanks for the great replies from everyone. Really appreciate it and helps me understand the boat better. In a worse case scenario, glad it won't sink. Keeping the hatch-boards in during strong winds, and wearing a PFD, makes a lot of sense too. Question for Bert - When the boat turtled, how did you get it upright? Were you able to do it yourself or did you have crew to help? Sounds like with a knockdown, the boat will be easy to right or right itself, but the turtle may have taken some effort? Also, is it possible to bale it out at that point, or is a rescue / tow needed? Thanks guys, and if there are any other stories or advise out there, keep em coming. Blair M15 #126 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:56:24 -0500 From: "Bert Hall" <bert.hall@bell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Message-ID: <333631FD78A4430F80640A9932F56E38@Allinone> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Hello All, In 2015 four conditions of wind, water, current and point of sail came together and my M- 15 turtled under full sail before I could even release the main sheet. I can tell you unequivocally that the Monty will not sink when righted even though she is filled with water providing that the factory flotation is still in place. Instead of experimenting with a controlled capsize my advice is to wear your PFD, keep the drop boards in place and the main sheet in hand no matter how benign the sailing conditions may seem. Enjoy your Monty safely. RTH.
On 1/27/2017 3:29 PM, Blair Ashworth wrote: Hi Blair, An important thing to consider is, you have to always keep the water outside of the boat..... Do you have water tight seals on the sail locker lids? They should be closed and sealed. Do you have a means of closing them so that they can't fly open in a knock-down? I had hasps that fitted tightly; eg, they wouldn't just fall open,I installed them so that you had to apply some force to open them. When I sailed, the hasps were always closed so that water stayed on the outside.... Yes, you will get a little inside via the clearance of the hatch boards; but you are not letting in multi-gallons at a time. Keep all water on the outside, all the time, and you'll be OK. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Thanks for the great replies from everyone. Really appreciate it and helps me understand the boat better.
In a worse case scenario, glad it won't sink. Keeping the hatch-boards in during strong winds, and wearing a PFD, makes a lot of sense too.
Question for Bert - When the boat turtled, how did you get it upright? Were you able to do it yourself or did you have crew to help? Sounds like with a knockdown, the boat will be easy to right or right itself, but the turtle may have taken some effort? Also, is it possible to bale it out at that point, or is a rescue / tow needed?
Thanks guys, and if there are any other stories or advise out there, keep em coming. Blair M15 #126
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:56:24 -0500 From: "Bert Hall" <bert.hall@bell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Message-ID: <333631FD78A4430F80640A9932F56E38@Allinone> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
Hello All, In 2015 four conditions of wind, water, current and point of sail came together and my M- 15 turtled under full sail before I could even release the main sheet. I can tell you unequivocally that the Monty will not sink when righted even though she is filled with water providing that the factory flotation is still in place. Instead of experimenting with a controlled capsize my advice is to wear your PFD, keep the drop boards in place and the main sheet in hand no matter how benign the sailing conditions may seem. Enjoy your Monty safely. RTH.
Hi, When the boat turtled I got clear and climbed onto the bottom and held onto the keel. A motorboat came by and I sent him downriver about a mile to summon help at my club. Once a couple more bodies arrived they towed the boat to deeper water to avoid river bottom damage to the mast. One of the party jumped into the water and we pulled the centre board back out and two of us stood on it .With two tries the boat was upright, floating full of water . Between the two of us we got the sails down.Trying to empty the boat with a bucket was a lost cause and we slowly towed the Monty back to the club and docked her. Helpful hands soon emptied the boat and pumped the water out. Within 24 hours all was dry and shipshape once more ,even the motor which of course was not running when the incident occurred. Obviously I was fortunate in having assistance near at hand . Far from shore, bailing would have been problematic.Even though it was summer, the cold was beginning to sap the strength of my 85 year old body. That is why I never get into the boat without wearing a PFD.OH Y I hope the above helps. -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 7:13 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 On 1/27/2017 3:29 PM, Blair Ashworth wrote: Hi Blair, An important thing to consider is, you have to always keep the water outside of the boat..... Do you have water tight seals on the sail locker lids? They should closed and sealed. Do you have a means of closing them so that they can't fly open in a knock-down? I had hasps that fitted tightly; eg, they wouldn't just fall open,I installed them so that you had to apply some force to open them. When I sailed, the hasps were always closed so that water stayed on the outside.... Yes, you will get a little inside via the clearance of the hatch boards; but you are not letting in multi-gallons at a time. Keep all water on the outside, all the time, and you'll be OK. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Thanks for the great replies from everyone. Really appreciate it and helps me understand the boat better.
In a worse case scenario, glad it won't sink. Keeping the hatch-boards in during strong winds, and wearing a PFD, makes a lot of sense too.
Question for Bert - When the boat turtled, how did you get it upright? Were you able to do it yourself or did you have crew to help? Sounds like with a knockdown, the boat will be easy to right or right itself, but the turtle may have taken some effort? Also, is it possible to bale it out at that point, or is a rescue / tow needed?
Thanks guys, and if there are any other stories or advise out there, keep em coming. Blair M15 #126
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:56:24 -0500 From: "Bert Hall" <bert.hall@bell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Message-ID: <333631FD78A4430F80640A9932F56E38@Allinone> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
Hello All, In 2015 four conditions of wind, water, current and point of sail came together and my M- 15 turtled under full sail before I could even release the main sheet. I can tell you unequivocally that the Monty will not sink when righted even though she is filled with water providing that the factory flotation is still in place. Instead of experimenting with a controlled capsize my advice is to wear your PFD, keep the drop boards in place and the main sheet in hand no matter how benign the sailing conditions may seem. Enjoy your Monty safely. RTH.
Wow Connie. I remember hearing about your capsize but not all the details. Since an M17 doesn’t have flotation it probably would have ended up on the bottom in a similar situation. - Jim M17 “Spirit"
On Jan 27, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Bert Hall <bert.hall@bell.net> wrote:
Hi, When the boat turtled I got clear and climbed onto the bottom and held onto the keel. A motorboat came by and I sent him downriver about a mile to summon help at my club. Once a couple more bodies arrived they towed the boat to deeper water to avoid river bottom damage to the mast. One of the party jumped into the water and we pulled the centre board back out and two of us stood on it .With two tries the boat was upright, floating full of water . Between the two of us we got the sails down.Trying to empty the boat with a bucket was a lost cause and we slowly towed the Monty back to the club and docked her. Helpful hands soon emptied the boat and pumped the water out. Within 24 hours all was dry and shipshape once more ,even the motor which of course was not running when the incident occurred. Obviously I was fortunate in having assistance near at hand . Far from shore, bailing would have been problematic.Even though it was summer, the cold was beginning to sap the strength of my 85 year old body. That is why I never get into the boat without wearing a PFD.OH Y I hope the above helps. -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 7:13 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15
On 1/27/2017 3:29 PM, Blair Ashworth wrote:
Hi Blair,
An important thing to consider is, you have to always keep the water outside of the boat.....
Do you have water tight seals on the sail locker lids? They should closed and sealed. Do you have a means of closing them so that they can't fly open in a knock-down? I had hasps that fitted tightly; eg, they wouldn't just fall open,I installed them so that you had to apply some force to open them. When I sailed, the hasps were always closed so that water stayed on the outside.... Yes, you will get a little inside via the clearance of the hatch boards; but you are not letting in multi-gallons at a time. Keep all water on the outside, all the time, and you'll be OK.
Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Thanks for the great replies from everyone. Really appreciate it and helps me understand the boat better.
In a worse case scenario, glad it won't sink. Keeping the hatch-boards in during strong winds, and wearing a PFD, makes a lot of sense too.
Question for Bert - When the boat turtled, how did you get it upright? Were you able to do it yourself or did you have crew to help? Sounds like with a knockdown, the boat will be easy to right or right itself, but the turtle may have taken some effort? Also, is it possible to bale it out at that point, or is a rescue / tow needed?
Thanks guys, and if there are any other stories or advise out there, keep em coming. Blair M15 #126
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:56:24 -0500 From: "Bert Hall" <bert.hall@bell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Message-ID: <333631FD78A4430F80640A9932F56E38@Allinone> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
Hello All, In 2015 four conditions of wind, water, current and point of sail came together and my M- 15 turtled under full sail before I could even release the main sheet. I can tell you unequivocally that the Monty will not sink when righted even though she is filled with water providing that the factory flotation is still in place. Instead of experimenting with a controlled capsize my advice is to wear your PFD, keep the drop boards in place and the main sheet in hand no matter how benign the sailing conditions may seem. Enjoy your Monty safely. RTH.
On 1/27/2017 9:23 PM, James Poulakis wrote: Hi Jim, Bert Hall was the person who turtled his M15. My comment was just to make certain that sail locker lids have a seal and hasps so that they can't accidentally open and let in large quantities of water. Water belongs outside; not inside the boat. Connie
Wow Connie. I remember hearing about your capsize but not all the details. Since an M17 doesn’t have flotation it probably would have ended up on the bottom in a similar situation.
- Jim M17 “Spirit"
On Jan 27, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Bert Hall <bert.hall@bell.net> wrote:
Hi, When the boat turtled I got clear and climbed onto the bottom and held onto the keel. A motorboat came by and I sent him downriver about a mile to summon help at my club. Once a couple more bodies arrived they towed the boat to deeper water to avoid river bottom damage to the mast. One of the party jumped into the water and we pulled the centre board back out and two of us stood on it .With two tries the boat was upright, floating full of water . Between the two of us we got the sails down.Trying to empty the boat with a bucket was a lost cause and we slowly towed the Monty back to the club and docked her. Helpful hands soon emptied the boat and pumped the water out. Within 24 hours all was dry and shipshape once more ,even the motor which of course was not running when the incident occurred. Obviously I was fortunate in having assistance near at hand . Far from shore, bailing would have been problematic.Even though it was summer, the cold was beginning to sap the strength of my 85 year old body. That is why I never get into the boat without wearing a PFD.OH Y I hope the above helps. -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 7:13 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15
On 1/27/2017 3:29 PM, Blair Ashworth wrote:
Hi Blair,
An important thing to consider is, you have to always keep the water outside of the boat.....
Do you have water tight seals on the sail locker lids? They should closed and sealed. Do you have a means of closing them so that they can't fly open in a knock-down? I had hasps that fitted tightly; eg, they wouldn't just fall open,I installed them so that you had to apply some force to open them. When I sailed, the hasps were always closed so that water stayed on the outside.... Yes, you will get a little inside via the clearance of the hatch boards; but you are not letting in multi-gallons at a time. Keep all water on the outside, all the time, and you'll be OK.
Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Thanks for the great replies from everyone. Really appreciate it and helps me understand the boat better.
In a worse case scenario, glad it won't sink. Keeping the hatch-boards in during strong winds, and wearing a PFD, makes a lot of sense too.
Question for Bert - When the boat turtled, how did you get it upright? Were you able to do it yourself or did you have crew to help? Sounds like with a knockdown, the boat will be easy to right or right itself, but the turtle may have taken some effort? Also, is it possible to bale it out at that point, or is a rescue / tow needed?
Thanks guys, and if there are any other stories or advise out there, keep em coming. Blair M15 #126
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:56:24 -0500 From: "Bert Hall" <bert.hall@bell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Message-ID: <333631FD78A4430F80640A9932F56E38@Allinone> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
Hello All, In 2015 four conditions of wind, water, current and point of sail came together and my M- 15 turtled under full sail before I could even release the main sheet. I can tell you unequivocally that the Monty will not sink when righted even though she is filled with water providing that the factory flotation is still in place. Instead of experimenting with a controlled capsize my advice is to wear your PFD, keep the drop boards in place and the main sheet in hand no matter how benign the sailing conditions may seem. Enjoy your Monty safely. RTH.
Along that line, I've been thinking about these plastic latches from southco as a locker lid latch. They are pretty unobtrusive and cheap enough. http://www.southco.com/en-gb/07/07-10-201-11 Larry From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:36 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 On 1/27/2017 9:23 PM, James Poulakis wrote: Hi Jim, Bert Hall was the person who turtled his M15. My comment was just to make certain that sail locker lids have a seal and hasps so that they can't accidentally open and let in large quantities of water. Water belongs outside; not inside the boat. Connie
Wow Connie. I remember hearing about your capsize but not all the details. Since an M17 doesn’t have flotation it probably would have ended up on the bottom in a similar situation.
- Jim M17 “Spirit"
On Jan 27, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Bert Hall <bert.hall@bell.net> wrote:
Hi, When the boat turtled I got clear and climbed onto the bottom and held onto the keel. A motorboat came by and I sent him downriver about a mile to summon help at my club. Once a couple more bodies arrived they towed the boat to deeper water to avoid river bottom damage to the mast. One of the party jumped into the water and we pulled the centre board back out and two of us stood on it .With two tries the boat was upright, floating full of water . Between the two of us we got the sails down.Trying to empty the boat with a bucket was a lost cause and we slowly towed the Monty back to the club and docked her. Helpful hands soon emptied the boat and pumped the water out. Within 24 hours all was dry and shipshape once more ,even the motor which of course was not running when the incident occurred. Obviously I was fortunate in having assistance near at hand . Far from shore, bailing would have been problematic.Even though it was summer, the cold was beginning to sap the strength of my 85 year old body. That is why I never get into the boat without wearing a PFD.OH Y I hope the above helps. -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 7:13 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15
On 1/27/2017 3:29 PM, Blair Ashworth wrote:
Hi Blair,
An important thing to consider is, you have to always keep the water outside of the boat.....
Do you have water tight seals on the sail locker lids? They should closed and sealed. Do you have a means of closing them so that they can't fly open in a knock-down? I had hasps that fitted tightly; eg, they wouldn't just fall open,I installed them so that you had to apply some force to open them. When I sailed, the hasps were always closed so that water stayed on the outside.... Yes, you will get a little inside via the clearance of the hatch boards; but you are not letting in multi-gallons at a time. Keep all water on the outside, all the time, and you'll be OK.
Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Thanks for the great replies from everyone. Really appreciate it and helps me understand the boat better.
In a worse case scenario, glad it won't sink. Keeping the hatch-boards in during strong winds, and wearing a PFD, makes a lot of sense too.
Question for Bert - When the boat turtled, how did you get it upright? Were you able to do it yourself or did you have crew to help? Sounds like with a knockdown, the boat will be easy to right or right itself, but the turtle may have taken some effort? Also, is it possible to bale it out at that point, or is a rescue / tow needed?
Thanks guys, and if there are any other stories or advise out there, keep em coming. Blair M15 #126
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:56:24 -0500 From: "Bert Hall" <bert.hall@bell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Message-ID: <333631FD78A4430F80640A9932F56E38@Allinone> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
Hello All, In 2015 four conditions of wind, water, current and point of sail came together and my M- 15 turtled under full sail before I could even release the main sheet. I can tell you unequivocally that the Monty will not sink when righted even though she is filled with water providing that the factory flotation is still in place. Instead of experimenting with a controlled capsize my advice is to wear your PFD, keep the drop boards in place and the main sheet in hand no matter how benign the sailing conditions may seem. Enjoy your Monty safely. RTH.
Oops. That’s what I get for trying to read again… My apologies to Bert and Connie. - Jim M17 "Spirit"
On Jan 28, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/27/2017 9:23 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
Hi Jim,
Bert Hall was the person who turtled his M15.
My comment was just to make certain that sail locker lids have a seal and hasps so that they can't accidentally open and let in large quantities of water. Water belongs outside; not inside the boat. Connie
Wow Connie. I remember hearing about your capsize but not all the details. Since an M17 doesn’t have flotation it probably would have ended up on the bottom in a similar situation.
- Jim M17 “Spirit"
On Jan 27, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Bert Hall <bert.hall@bell.net> wrote:
Hi, When the boat turtled I got clear and climbed onto the bottom and held onto the keel. A motorboat came by and I sent him downriver about a mile to summon help at my club. Once a couple more bodies arrived they towed the boat to deeper water to avoid river bottom damage to the mast. One of the party jumped into the water and we pulled the centre board back out and two of us stood on it .With two tries the boat was upright, floating full of water . Between the two of us we got the sails down.Trying to empty the boat with a bucket was a lost cause and we slowly towed the Monty back to the club and docked her. Helpful hands soon emptied the boat and pumped the water out. Within 24 hours all was dry and shipshape once more ,even the motor which of course was not running when the incident occurred. Obviously I was fortunate in having assistance near at hand . Far from shore, bailing would have been problematic.Even though it was summer, the cold was beginning to sap the strength of my 85 year old body. That is why I never get into the boat without wearing a PFD.OH Y I hope the above helps. -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 7:13 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15
On 1/27/2017 3:29 PM, Blair Ashworth wrote:
Hi Blair,
An important thing to consider is, you have to always keep the water outside of the boat.....
Do you have water tight seals on the sail locker lids? They should closed and sealed. Do you have a means of closing them so that they can't fly open in a knock-down? I had hasps that fitted tightly; eg, they wouldn't just fall open,I installed them so that you had to apply some force to open them. When I sailed, the hasps were always closed so that water stayed on the outside.... Yes, you will get a little inside via the clearance of the hatch boards; but you are not letting in multi-gallons at a time. Keep all water on the outside, all the time, and you'll be OK.
Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Thanks for the great replies from everyone. Really appreciate it and helps me understand the boat better.
In a worse case scenario, glad it won't sink. Keeping the hatch-boards in during strong winds, and wearing a PFD, makes a lot of sense too.
Question for Bert - When the boat turtled, how did you get it upright? Were you able to do it yourself or did you have crew to help? Sounds like with a knockdown, the boat will be easy to right or right itself, but the turtle may have taken some effort? Also, is it possible to bale it out at that point, or is a rescue / tow needed?
Thanks guys, and if there are any other stories or advise out there, keep em coming. Blair M15 #126
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:56:24 -0500 From: "Bert Hall" <bert.hall@bell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Message-ID: <333631FD78A4430F80640A9932F56E38@Allinone> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
Hello All, In 2015 four conditions of wind, water, current and point of sail came together and my M- 15 turtled under full sail before I could even release the main sheet. I can tell you unequivocally that the Monty will not sink when righted even though she is filled with water providing that the factory flotation is still in place. Instead of experimenting with a controlled capsize my advice is to wear your PFD, keep the drop boards in place and the main sheet in hand no matter how benign the sailing conditions may seem. Enjoy your Monty safely. RTH.
participants (5)
-
Bert Hall -
Blair Ashworth -
Conbert Benneck -
James Poulakis -
Lawrence Winiarski