Bones and Rich, just out of curiosity How many Montgomerys do you think there are in Minnesota? How many in the Twin Cities area? Do they ever get together? -----Original Message----- From: "montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: 1/28/2014 9:22 AM To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 2. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 3. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Gilbert Landin) 4. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 5. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 6. Re: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 7. Re: Sails (Todd Bradley) 8. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 9. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 10. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 11. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (bownez@juno.com) 12. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 13. Re: Mast Raising System (Rich Makela) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:20:22 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50B96.6050806@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies. Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions. Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive.
Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:22:43 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50C23.8080909@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Great! Hope you have fun with that! We are completely shut down here as well as far as off season work. It is almost too cold for skiing! Almost... Robbin On 1/24/2014 8:46 AM, bownez@juno.com wrote:
Robbin,
Now you got me anxious to try that old 150 you kindly shipped to me!! No boating here for a while....
Bones
M23 #75 ____________________________________________________________ Do THIS before eating carbs (every time) 1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52e26ee1a2e7b6ee120dcst04vuc
------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:09:22 -0600 From: "Gilbert Landin" <gilbert.landin@gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <52e5a3b9.82ddb60a.142a.2aaf@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest? Gilbert 1974 M-17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks. I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked! -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 21:18:43 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <002401cf1b0e$7c6a3120$753e9360$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gilbert, On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest? Gilbert 1974 M-17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks. I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked! -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 06:56:09 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVj+zqygV0mLmqKb6Sk0qKnaDbZjgmW5Uafm+12TuEKeEA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rich, I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup? Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:22:00 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <DA66ADC710414745B21AC363B4E911B8@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Me too. The mast on my M-15 seems to be heavier and more difficult to raise in recent years than I remember from younger years. I have tried various home built props and rope leverage a schemes, but the best plan seems to be to engage my 17 year old grand- nephew in the process. If such a relative is not readily available, I suggest recruiting a young friend, an even offering a few $ compensation to get the job done. If all else fails, the local boat shop at the local marina will do it for about $ 25. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Davies" <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:56 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7035 - Release Date: 01/26/14
------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:35:56 -0800 From: "Todd Bradley" <todd@btbuilders.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <041f01cf1b8e$9f836c50$de8a44f0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years! Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall. I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old. Todd Bradley M-23 #86 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies. Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions. Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive.
Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:00:47 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E7013F.5010407@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Todd, I took the back half off and completed that. Then did the front half. You might consider starting at the front as the front most screws were the most difficult since they are not visible due to the chain locker. Yes my son was manning the inside. He had disposable gloves on and changed often as the marine epoxy is messy and you do want to seal the screws. Do not forget the washers as well! The encouraging thing about the repair is that there is not a drop of water since the repair! Robbin M-23 https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23# On 1/27/2014 1:35 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years!
Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall.
I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old.
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies.
Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions.
Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD
On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive. Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:32:25 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <006501cf1be1$f2796fb0$d76c4f10$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup. First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process. I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast. I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Rich, I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup? Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:50:11 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <2298AAF487A9420DAD094A2EF0B43326@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 14:20:19 GMT From: "bownez@juno.com" <bownez@juno.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <20140128.082019.22199.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Rich, I take it you have a very beefy whiskerpole. (a hemmm) Might you have the model number? Is it a Forespar item? Bones ____________________________________________________________ Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:34:05 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhAMPJfSWYMRAC6TFUB5DHbOB5eSnzKJ6pV2qXVed=vmA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:20:11 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast Raising System Message-ID: <001001cf1c3c$70b10aa0$52131fe0$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rick (and Bones), When I refer to the mainsheet I mean the whole assembly, including the blocks. With the bottom rounded the mast goes up easily, and I don't need to use a winch. As far as I know there is nothing special about the whisker pole. I'll take photos when we're done with winter. That may be a while - it's 15 below zero at the moment. Rich -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising
system.
It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 *************************************************
I am in superior M-17 and would do my best to make an event around here Dale Nummi nummij@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2014 8:34 am Subject: M_Boats: Minnesota Bones and Rich, just out of curiosity How many Montgomerys do you think there are in Minnesota? How many in the Twin Cities area? Do they ever get together? -----Original Message----- From: "montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: 1/28/2014 9:22 AM To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 2. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 3. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Gilbert Landin) 4. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 5. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 6. Re: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 7. Re: Sails (Todd Bradley) 8. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 9. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 10. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 11. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (bownez@juno.com) 12. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 13. Re: Mast Raising System (Rich Makela) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:20:22 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50B96.6050806@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies. Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions. Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive.
Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:22:43 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50C23.8080909@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Great! Hope you have fun with that! We are completely shut down here as well as far as off season work. It is almost too cold for skiing! Almost... Robbin On 1/24/2014 8:46 AM, bownez@juno.com wrote:
Robbin,
Now you got me anxious to try that old 150 you kindly shipped to me!! No boating here for a while....
Bones
M23 #75 ____________________________________________________________ Do THIS before eating carbs (every time) 1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52e26ee1a2e7b6ee120dcst04vuc
------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:09:22 -0600 From: "Gilbert Landin" <gilbert.landin@gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <52e5a3b9.82ddb60a.142a.2aaf@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest? Gilbert 1974 M-17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks. I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked! -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 21:18:43 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <002401cf1b0e$7c6a3120$753e9360$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gilbert, On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest? Gilbert 1974 M-17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks. I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked! -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 06:56:09 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVj+zqygV0mLmqKb6Sk0qKnaDbZjgmW5Uafm+12TuEKeEA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rich, I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup? Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:22:00 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <DA66ADC710414745B21AC363B4E911B8@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Me too. The mast on my M-15 seems to be heavier and more difficult to raise in recent years than I remember from younger years. I have tried various home built props and rope leverage a schemes, but the best plan seems to be to engage my 17 year old grand- nephew in the process. If such a relative is not readily available, I suggest recruiting a young friend, an even offering a few $ compensation to get the job done. If all else fails, the local boat shop at the local marina will do it for about $ 25. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Davies" <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:56 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7035 - Release Date: 01/26/14
------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:35:56 -0800 From: "Todd Bradley" <todd@btbuilders.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <041f01cf1b8e$9f836c50$de8a44f0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years! Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall. I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old. Todd Bradley M-23 #86 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies. Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions. Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive.
Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:00:47 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E7013F.5010407@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Todd, I took the back half off and completed that. Then did the front half. You might consider starting at the front as the front most screws were the most difficult since they are not visible due to the chain locker. Yes my son was manning the inside. He had disposable gloves on and changed often as the marine epoxy is messy and you do want to seal the screws. Do not forget the washers as well! The encouraging thing about the repair is that there is not a drop of water since the repair! Robbin M-23 https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23# On 1/27/2014 1:35 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years!
Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall.
I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old.
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies.
Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions.
Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD
On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive. Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:32:25 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <006501cf1be1$f2796fb0$d76c4f10$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup. First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process. I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast. I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Rich, I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup? Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:50:11 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <2298AAF487A9420DAD094A2EF0B43326@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 14:20:19 GMT From: "bownez@juno.com" <bownez@juno.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <20140128.082019.22199.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Rich, I take it you have a very beefy whiskerpole. (a hemmm) Might you have the model number? Is it a Forespar item? Bones ____________________________________________________________ Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:34:05 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhAMPJfSWYMRAC6TFUB5DHbOB5eSnzKJ6pV2qXVed=vmA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:20:11 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast Raising System Message-ID: <001001cf1c3c$70b10aa0$52131fe0$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rick (and Bones), When I refer to the mainsheet I mean the whole assembly, including the blocks. With the bottom rounded the mast goes up easily, and I don't need to use a winch. As far as I know there is nothing special about the whisker pole. I'll take photos when we're done with winter. That may be a while - it's 15 below zero at the moment. Rich -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising
system.
It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 *************************************************
Henry, Frist, welcome to the M-17 club. I haven't seen any other M-17s on Lake Calhoun recently. I vaguely recall an M-15 at the dock one day last summer, but it wasn't moored on the lake. There may be one or two on Lake Harriet. I see them for sale at Hooper's in Afton on occasion. If you need service on your M-17, I recommend Hooper's. I haven't personally met Bones, or any other M-17 owners, but I would be game for a get-together. I live in Bloomington. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+richmak=makelaperformance.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+richmak=makelaperformance.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 8:15 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Minnesota Bones and Rich, just out of curiosity How many Montgomerys do you think there are in Minnesota? How many in the Twin Cities area? Do they ever get together? -----Original Message----- From: "montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: 1/28/2014 9:22 AM To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 2. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 3. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Gilbert Landin) 4. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 5. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 6. Re: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 7. Re: Sails (Todd Bradley) 8. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 9. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 10. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 11. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (bownez@juno.com) 12. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 13. Re: Mast Raising System (Rich Makela) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:20:22 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50B96.6050806@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies. Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions. Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive.
Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:22:43 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50C23.8080909@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Great! Hope you have fun with that! We are completely shut down here as well as far as off season work. It is almost too cold for skiing! Almost... Robbin On 1/24/2014 8:46 AM, bownez@juno.com wrote:
Robbin,
Now you got me anxious to try that old 150 you kindly shipped to me!! No boating here for a while....
Bones
M23 #75 ____________________________________________________________ Do THIS before eating carbs (every time) 1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52e26ee1a2e7b6ee120dcst04vuc
------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:09:22 -0600 From: "Gilbert Landin" <gilbert.landin@gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <52e5a3b9.82ddb60a.142a.2aaf@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest? Gilbert 1974 M-17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks. I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked! -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 21:18:43 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <002401cf1b0e$7c6a3120$753e9360$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gilbert, On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest? Gilbert 1974 M-17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks. I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked! -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 06:56:09 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVj+zqygV0mLmqKb6Sk0qKnaDbZjgmW5Uafm+12TuEKeEA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rich, I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup? Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:22:00 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <DA66ADC710414745B21AC363B4E911B8@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Me too. The mast on my M-15 seems to be heavier and more difficult to raise in recent years than I remember from younger years. I have tried various home built props and rope leverage a schemes, but the best plan seems to be to engage my 17 year old grand- nephew in the process. If such a relative is not readily available, I suggest recruiting a young friend, an even offering a few $ compensation to get the job done. If all else fails, the local boat shop at the local marina will do it for about $ 25. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Davies" <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:56 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7035 - Release Date: 01/26/14
------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:35:56 -0800 From: "Todd Bradley" <todd@btbuilders.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <041f01cf1b8e$9f836c50$de8a44f0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years! Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall. I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old. Todd Bradley M-23 #86 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies. Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions. Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive.
Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:00:47 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E7013F.5010407@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Todd, I took the back half off and completed that. Then did the front half. You might consider starting at the front as the front most screws were the most difficult since they are not visible due to the chain locker. Yes my son was manning the inside. He had disposable gloves on and changed often as the marine epoxy is messy and you do want to seal the screws. Do not forget the washers as well! The encouraging thing about the repair is that there is not a drop of water since the repair! Robbin M-23 https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23# On 1/27/2014 1:35 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years!
Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall.
I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old.
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies.
Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions.
Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD
On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive. Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:32:25 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <006501cf1be1$f2796fb0$d76c4f10$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup. First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process. I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast. I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Rich, I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup? Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:50:11 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <2298AAF487A9420DAD094A2EF0B43326@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 14:20:19 GMT From: "bownez@juno.com" <bownez@juno.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <20140128.082019.22199.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Rich, I take it you have a very beefy whiskerpole. (a hemmm) Might you have the model number? Is it a Forespar item? Bones ____________________________________________________________ Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:34:05 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhAMPJfSWYMRAC6TFUB5DHbOB5eSnzKJ6pV2qXVed=vmA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:20:11 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast Raising System Message-ID: <001001cf1c3c$70b10aa0$52131fe0$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rick (and Bones), When I refer to the mainsheet I mean the whole assembly, including the blocks. With the bottom rounded the mast goes up easily, and I don't need to use a winch. As far as I know there is nothing special about the whisker pole. I'll take photos when we're done with winter. That may be a while - it's 15 below zero at the moment. Rich -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising
system.
It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 *************************************************
I live in Mpls and usually sail Nokomis as it's easy to park but I occasionally sail Calhoun as well. Harriet is too gusty, irrc. Of course, I'm an M15, not 17... On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com
wrote:
Henry,
Frist, welcome to the M-17 club. I haven't seen any other M-17s on Lake Calhoun recently. I vaguely recall an M-15 at the dock one day last summer, but it wasn't moored on the lake. There may be one or two on Lake Harriet. I see them for sale at Hooper's in Afton on occasion. If you need service on your M-17, I recommend Hooper's.
I haven't personally met Bones, or any other M-17 owners, but I would be game for a get-together. I live in Bloomington.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+richmak= makelaperformance.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces+richmak= makelaperformance.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 8:15 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Minnesota
Bones and Rich, just out of curiosity How many Montgomerys do you think there are in Minnesota? How many in the Twin Cities area? Do they ever get together?
-----Original Message----- From: "montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com" < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: 1/28/2014 9:22 AM To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 2. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 3. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Gilbert Landin) 4. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 5. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 6. Re: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 7. Re: Sails (Todd Bradley) 8. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 9. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 10. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 11. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (bownez@juno.com) 12. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 13. Re: Mast Raising System (Rich Makela)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:20:22 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50B96.6050806@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies.
Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions.
Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD
On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive.
Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:22:43 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50C23.8080909@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Great! Hope you have fun with that! We are completely shut down here as well as far as off season work. It is almost too cold for skiing! Almost...
Robbin
On 1/24/2014 8:46 AM, bownez@juno.com wrote:
Robbin,
Now you got me anxious to try that old 150 you kindly shipped to me!! No boating here for a while....
Bones
M23 #75 ____________________________________________________________ Do THIS before eating carbs (every time) 1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52e26ee1a2e7b6ee120dcst04vuc
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:09:22 -0600 From: "Gilbert Landin" <gilbert.landin@gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <52e5a3b9.82ddb60a.142a.2aaf@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 21:18:43 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <002401cf1b0e$7c6a3120$753e9360$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 06:56:09 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: < CA+0OvVj+zqygV0mLmqKb6Sk0qKnaDbZjgmW5Uafm+12TuEKeEA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:22:00 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <DA66ADC710414745B21AC363B4E911B8@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Me too. The mast on my M-15 seems to be heavier and more difficult to raise in recent years than I remember from younger years. I have tried various home built props and rope leverage a schemes, but the best plan seems to be to engage my 17 year old grand- nephew in the process. If such a relative is not readily available, I suggest recruiting a young friend, an even offering a few $ compensation to get the job done. If all else fails, the local boat shop at the local marina will do it for about $ 25. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Davies" <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:56 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7035 - Release Date: 01/26/14
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:35:56 -0800 From: "Todd Bradley" <todd@btbuilders.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <041f01cf1b8e$9f836c50$de8a44f0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years!
Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall.
I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old.
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies.
Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions.
Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD
On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive.
Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:00:47 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E7013F.5010407@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Todd, I took the back half off and completed that. Then did the front half. You might consider starting at the front as the front most screws were the most difficult since they are not visible due to the chain locker. Yes my son was manning the inside. He had disposable gloves on and changed often as the marine epoxy is messy and you do want to seal the screws. Do not forget the washers as well! The encouraging thing about the repair is that there is not a drop of water since the repair!
Robbin M-23 https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23#
On 1/27/2014 1:35 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years!
Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall.
I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old.
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies.
Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions.
Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD
On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go.
I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive. Thanks again!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails
Hi Todd, I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail.
Robbin
On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote:
Hi Everybody,
I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa.
What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start?
Thanks in advance for any of your input!
Todd Bradley
M-23 #86
------------------------------
Message: 9 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:32:25 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <006501cf1be1$f2796fb0$d76c4f10$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
------------------------------
Message: 10 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:50:11 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <2298AAF487A9420DAD094A2EF0B43326@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------
Message: 11 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 14:20:19 GMT From: "bownez@juno.com" <bownez@juno.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <20140128.082019.22199.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Rich,
I take it you have a very beefy whiskerpole. (a hemmm) Might you have the model number? Is it a Forespar item?
Bones
____________________________________________________________ Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2
------------------------------
Message: 12 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:34:05 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhAMPJfSWYMRAC6TFUB5DHbOB5eSnzKJ6pV2qXVed= vmA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year).
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change
the
subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela < richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------
Message: 13 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:20:11 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast Raising System Message-ID: <001001cf1c3c$70b10aa0$52131fe0$@makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Rick (and Bones),
When I refer to the mainsheet I mean the whole assembly, including the blocks. With the bottom rounded the mast goes up easily, and I don't need to use a winch.
As far as I know there is nothing special about the whisker pole. I'll take photos when we're done with winter. That may be a while - it's 15 below zero at the moment.
Rich -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year).
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my
setup.
First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the
water. I
fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process.
I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast.
I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Rich,
I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup?
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com> wrote:
Gilbert,
On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose.
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest?
Gilbert
1974 M-17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks.
I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all.
The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions.
Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom.
I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked!
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14
------------------------------
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 *************************************************
-- Chris
participants (4)
-
Chris Smith -
Dale Nummi -
Henry Rodriguez -
Rich Makela