I am about ready to pull the trigger on either of these two cars that is capable of towing +2000 lbs. Mazda CX 5 w 2.5 liter engine good to 2200 lbs Subaru Outback w 2.5 liter engine good for 2700 lbs if trailer has brakes on it (no need for brakes below 2000 lbs) Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine. Thanks Smiley M15 # 616 Karen & Smiley Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
Always a useful topic... :-) You're talking about a brand new car of one of these? In any case... The Subaru is all-wheel drive (AWD) whatever Outback model (engine, trans) you get. The Mazda has 2WD or AWD options, 2WD at the lower price point. AWD is really nice to have on slippery boat ramps, so if you go for the Mazda, I say get the AWD (it's also nice to have for a lot of other adventures and for winter driving if you live in snow country). Either one should not be at all stressed to tow an M-15. If it were an M-17 I would say go with the extra margin the Subaru claims (2700 vs. 2200 for the Mazda). And remember a lot of it is about brakes! See if you can find info on which has the better rated (actual testing, by e.g. Car & Driver or similar) brakes. I have an older Outback (2001), which is only rated 2000 lbs. towing. I have rear overload springs and slightly better-than-stock front brakes. I would be confident towing an M-17 or equivalent; beyond confident for an M-15. Daniel may want to chime in, he tows his M-15 with a newer Impreza (same carcass and engine, different body than Outback) rated same as you are looking at (2700). I recall he said it is more than adequate. cheers, John S. On 07/19/2015 03:12 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on either of these two cars that is capable of towing +2000 lbs.
Mazda CX 5 w 2.5 liter engine good to 2200 lbs
Subaru Outback w 2.5 liter engine good for 2700 lbs if trailer has brakes on it (no need for brakes below 2000 lbs)
Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine. Thanks Smiley M15 # 616
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Actually, I tow with a 2012 Outback 2.5i with my M15. No problem at all. Great car for it. Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
On Jul 19, 2015, at 3:28 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Always a useful topic... :-)
You're talking about a brand new car of one of these? In any case... The Subaru is all-wheel drive (AWD) whatever Outback model (engine, trans) you get. The Mazda has 2WD or AWD options, 2WD at the lower price point.
AWD is really nice to have on slippery boat ramps, so if you go for the Mazda, I say get the AWD (it's also nice to have for a lot of other adventures and for winter driving if you live in snow country).
Either one should not be at all stressed to tow an M-15. If it were an M-17 I would say go with the extra margin the Subaru claims (2700 vs. 2200 for the Mazda). And remember a lot of it is about brakes! See if you can find info on which has the better rated (actual testing, by e.g. Car & Driver or similar) brakes.
I have an older Outback (2001), which is only rated 2000 lbs. towing. I have rear overload springs and slightly better-than-stock front brakes. I would be confident towing an M-17 or equivalent; beyond confident for an M-15.
Daniel may want to chime in, he tows his M-15 with a newer Impreza (same carcass and engine, different body than Outback) rated same as you are looking at (2700). I recall he said it is more than adequate.
cheers, John S.
On 07/19/2015 03:12 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on either of these two cars that is capable of towing +2000 lbs.
Mazda CX 5 w 2.5 liter engine good to 2200 lbs
Subaru Outback w 2.5 liter engine good for 2700 lbs if trailer has brakes on it (no need for brakes below 2000 lbs)
Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine. Thanks Smiley M15 # 616
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I know by the date that this topic has come and gone, but I have been away from responding to M-Boats for awhile. I attempted to tow my M-15 with my Subaru Forrester and found it simply not up to the task, so I resumed towing my M-15 with my old but reliable Ford Ranger V-6, which does the job fine. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Always a useful topic... :-)
You're talking about a brand new car of one of these? In any case... The Subaru is all-wheel drive (AWD) whatever Outback model (engine, trans) you get. The Mazda has 2WD or AWD options, 2WD at the lower price point.
AWD is really nice to have on slippery boat ramps, so if you go for the Mazda, I say get the AWD (it's also nice to have for a lot of other adventures and for winter driving if you live in snow country).
Either one should not be at all stressed to tow an M-15. If it were an M-17 I would say go with the extra margin the Subaru claims (2700 vs. 2200 for the Mazda). And remember a lot of it is about brakes! See if you can find info on which has the better rated (actual testing, by e.g. Car & Driver or similar) brakes.
I have an older Outback (2001), which is only rated 2000 lbs. towing. I have rear overload springs and slightly better-than-stock front brakes. I would be confident towing an M-17 or equivalent; beyond confident for an M-15.
Daniel may want to chime in, he tows his M-15 with a newer Impreza (same carcass and engine, different body than Outback) rated same as you are looking at (2700). I recall he said it is more than adequate.
cheers, John S.
On 07/19/2015 03:12 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on either of these two cars that is capable of towing +2000 lbs.
Mazda CX 5 w 2.5 liter engine good to 2200 lbs
Subaru Outback w 2.5 liter engine good for 2700 lbs if trailer has brakes on it (no need for brakes below 2000 lbs)
Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine. Thanks Smiley M15 # 616
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Steve, What was the problem with the Forester? Too little power to keep up with traffic or something else? Tyler
On Aug 24, 2015, at 7:38 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
I know by the date that this topic has come and gone, but I have been away from responding to M-Boats for awhile. I attempted to tow my M-15 with my Subaru Forrester and found it simply not up to the task, so I resumed towing my M-15 with my old but reliable Ford Ranger V-6, which does the job fine. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Always a useful topic... :-)
You're talking about a brand new car of one of these? In any case... The Subaru is all-wheel drive (AWD) whatever Outback model (engine, trans) you get. The Mazda has 2WD or AWD options, 2WD at the lower price point.
AWD is really nice to have on slippery boat ramps, so if you go for the Mazda, I say get the AWD (it's also nice to have for a lot of other adventures and for winter driving if you live in snow country).
Either one should not be at all stressed to tow an M-15. If it were an M-17 I would say go with the extra margin the Subaru claims (2700 vs. 2200 for the Mazda). And remember a lot of it is about brakes! See if you can find info on which has the better rated (actual testing, by e.g. Car & Driver or similar) brakes.
I have an older Outback (2001), which is only rated 2000 lbs. towing. I have rear overload springs and slightly better-than-stock front brakes. I would be confident towing an M-17 or equivalent; beyond confident for an M-15.
Daniel may want to chime in, he tows his M-15 with a newer Impreza (same carcass and engine, different body than Outback) rated same as you are looking at (2700). I recall he said it is more than adequate.
cheers, John S.
On 07/19/2015 03:12 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on either of these two cars that is capable of towing +2000 lbs.
Mazda CX 5 w 2.5 liter engine good to 2200 lbs
Subaru Outback w 2.5 liter engine good for 2700 lbs if trailer has brakes on it (no need for brakes below 2000 lbs)
Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine. Thanks Smiley M15 # 616
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
--
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Backman" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 10:56 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing Steve, What was the problem with the Forester? Too little power to keep up with traffic or something else? Tyler
On Aug 24, 2015, at 7:38 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
I know by the date that this topic has come and gone, but I have been away from responding to M-Boats for awhile. I attempted to tow my M-15 with my Subaru Forrester and found it simply not up to the task, so I resumed towing my M-15 with my old but reliable Ford Ranger V-6, which does the job fine. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Always a useful topic... :-)
You're talking about a brand new car of one of these? In any case... The Subaru is all-wheel drive (AWD) whatever Outback model (engine, trans) you get. The Mazda has 2WD or AWD options, 2WD at the lower price point.
AWD is really nice to have on slippery boat ramps, so if you go for the Mazda, I say get the AWD (it's also nice to have for a lot of other adventures and for winter driving if you live in snow country).
Either one should not be at all stressed to tow an M-15. If it were an M-17 I would say go with the extra margin the Subaru claims (2700 vs. 2200 for the Mazda). And remember a lot of it is about brakes! See if you can find info on which has the better rated (actual testing, by e.g. Car & Driver or similar) brakes.
I have an older Outback (2001), which is only rated 2000 lbs. towing. I have rear overload springs and slightly better-than-stock front brakes. I would be confident towing an M-17 or equivalent; beyond confident for an M-15.
Daniel may want to chime in, he tows his M-15 with a newer Impreza (same carcass and engine, different body than Outback) rated same as you are looking at (2700). I recall he said it is more than adequate.
cheers, John S.
On 07/19/2015 03:12 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on either of these two cars that is capable of towing +2000 lbs.
Mazda CX 5 w 2.5 liter engine good to 2200 lbs
Subaru Outback w 2.5 liter engine good for 2700 lbs if trailer has brakes on it (no need for brakes below 2000 lbs)
Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine. Thanks Smiley M15 # 616
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
--
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Does it have a manual transmission? When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill. Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
Yes what Tyler wrote. Automatics are much better at pulling up a hill from a dead stop under a load. Sticks are much more challenging when doing this. When pulling a boat out using my Ford Ranger, which is a stick, I always throw it into 4-low and it is not a problem. I do prefer a stick for driving though, I like to control shifting especially on a downhill. Automatics are not as good at compression breaking down a hill. The full size trucks are getting better at this, but still leaves much to be desired versus a stick. With my ford ranger I can go down Vail Pass heading east or west and not touch the brakes the entire way. :: Dave Scobie On Aug 25, 2015 6:42 PM, <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Does it have a manual transmission?
When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill.
Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
Standard transmissions in both cars, the Subaru and Ranger. Seemed to feel as well as smell the Subaru clutch slipping when I was outhauling my M-15 on relatively steep ramps. Have not had that problem with my Ford Ranger. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Does it have a manual transmission?
When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill.
Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Never had a problem with my ’97 Rav4 manual, on ramps or off. That clutch saw a lot of work, towing and backing, but was still okay when I sold the vehicle with 132k miles. It wasn’t fast towing up hills but there was always a gear where I could make progress without stressing the engine. There was an amazing difference, of course, when I upgraded to a Rav4 V6 with 269hp. Too bad Toyota stopped selling the manual transmission in the US. Bill Riker M-15 - #184 Storm Petrel
On Aug 25, 2015, at 7:23 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Standard transmissions in both cars, the Subaru and Ranger. Seemed to feel as well as smell the Subaru clutch slipping when I was outhauling my M-15 on relatively steep ramps. Have not had that problem with my Ford Ranger. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Does it have a manual transmission?
When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill.
Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
I wanted a RAV 4 when I bought my Subaru Forester, but the Subaru dealer was willing to make a better deal than was the Honda dealer. Now I know why. FYI, last time I towed with my Ford Ranger V 6, within the past couple of weeks, it had a 156 K on the odometer and is still going strong. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Riker" <wriker@mindspring.com> To: "M-Boats List" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 8:06 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing Never had a problem with my ’97 Rav4 manual, on ramps or off. That clutch saw a lot of work, towing and backing, but was still okay when I sold the vehicle with 132k miles. It wasn’t fast towing up hills but there was always a gear where I could make progress without stressing the engine. There was an amazing difference, of course, when I upgraded to a Rav4 V6 with 269hp. Too bad Toyota stopped selling the manual transmission in the US. Bill Riker M-15 - #184 Storm Petrel
On Aug 25, 2015, at 7:23 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Standard transmissions in both cars, the Subaru and Ranger. Seemed to feel as well as smell the Subaru clutch slipping when I was outhauling my M-15 on relatively steep ramps. Have not had that problem with my Ford Ranger. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Does it have a manual transmission?
When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill.
Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
I used having my M17 to convince my wife I needed a Toyota Tundra V8, 5.7L. Can't really tell I'm towing anything except mileage drops from 17 to 15mpg. Go big. Best Regards, Tyler Heerwagen Mobile 408-667-2138 Sent from my iPhone, please excuse brevity and any typos
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:27 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
I wanted a RAV 4 when I bought my Subaru Forester, but the Subaru dealer was willing to make a better deal than was the Honda dealer. Now I know why. FYI, last time I towed with my Ford Ranger V 6, within the past couple of weeks, it had a 156 K on the odometer and is still going strong. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Riker" <wriker@mindspring.com> To: "M-Boats List" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 8:06 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Never had a problem with my ’97 Rav4 manual, on ramps or off. That clutch saw a lot of work, towing and backing, but was still okay when I sold the vehicle with 132k miles. It wasn’t fast towing up hills but there was always a gear where I could make progress without stressing the engine. There was an amazing difference, of course, when I upgraded to a Rav4 V6 with 269hp. Too bad Toyota stopped selling the manual transmission in the US.
Bill Riker M-15 - #184 Storm Petrel
On Aug 25, 2015, at 7:23 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Standard transmissions in both cars, the Subaru and Ranger. Seemed to feel as well as smell the Subaru clutch slipping when I was outhauling my M-15 on relatively steep ramps. Have not had that problem with my Ford Ranger. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Does it have a manual transmission?
When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill.
Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
I like it, good on you. Sometimes wives need convincing to agree to what we guys know we need to do. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Heerwagen via montgomery_boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 8:34 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing I used having my M17 to convince my wife I needed a Toyota Tundra V8, 5.7L. Can't really tell I'm towing anything except mileage drops from 17 to 15mpg. Go big. Best Regards, Tyler Heerwagen Mobile 408-667-2138 Sent from my iPhone, please excuse brevity and any typos
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:27 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
I wanted a RAV 4 when I bought my Subaru Forester, but the Subaru dealer was willing to make a better deal than was the Honda dealer. Now I know why. FYI, last time I towed with my Ford Ranger V 6, within the past couple of weeks, it had a 156 K on the odometer and is still going strong. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Riker" <wriker@mindspring.com> To: "M-Boats List" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 8:06 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Never had a problem with my ’97 Rav4 manual, on ramps or off. That clutch saw a lot of work, towing and backing, but was still okay when I sold the vehicle with 132k miles. It wasn’t fast towing up hills but there was always a gear where I could make progress without stressing the engine. There was an amazing difference, of course, when I upgraded to a Rav4 V6 with 269hp. Too bad Toyota stopped selling the manual transmission in the US.
Bill Riker M-15 - #184 Storm Petrel
On Aug 25, 2015, at 7:23 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Standard transmissions in both cars, the Subaru and Ranger. Seemed to feel as well as smell the Subaru clutch slipping when I was outhauling my M-15 on relatively steep ramps. Have not had that problem with my Ford Ranger. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Does it have a manual transmission?
When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill.
Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
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Hmmm, maybe you needed a new clutch on the Subaru...? Even with an overbuilt trailer and full of gear, an M15 should be well shy of even the early 2.5L Forester 2000 lb towing limit. And the AWD often makes for better ramp experiences than 2WD, especially on steeper ramps. I will have some real world reports later this month on 2001 Outback 2.5L 5-speed abilities. Will be pulling an E20 out (slightly heavier boat than M17, not sure how trailer compares), and possibly towing an M17. Not a super steep ramp though. And have new good quality clutch, overload rear springs, slightly better than stock brakes. cheers, John S. On 08/25/2015 06:23 PM, stevetrapp wrote:
Standard transmissions in both cars, the Subaru and Ranger. Seemed to feel as well as smell the Subaru clutch slipping when I was outhauling my M-15 on relatively steep ramps. Have not had that problem with my Ford Ranger. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Does it have a manual transmission?
When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill.
Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Had a replacement clutch in my Subaru Forester, had already replaced the original. The launch ramps on South Pugets Sound are steep and long at low tides, which can be as much as 16 feet lower water level than high tide. Have learned to check the tide table and coordinate my outhauls with the time of high tide, which varies every day. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Hmmm, maybe you needed a new clutch on the Subaru...? Even with an overbuilt trailer and full of gear, an M15 should be well shy of even the early 2.5L Forester 2000 lb towing limit. And the AWD often makes for better ramp experiences than 2WD, especially on steeper ramps.
I will have some real world reports later this month on 2001 Outback 2.5L 5-speed abilities. Will be pulling an E20 out (slightly heavier boat than M17, not sure how trailer compares), and possibly towing an M17. Not a super steep ramp though. And have new good quality clutch, overload rear springs, slightly better than stock brakes.
cheers, John S.
On 08/25/2015 06:23 PM, stevetrapp wrote:
Standard transmissions in both cars, the Subaru and Ranger. Seemed to feel as well as smell the Subaru clutch slipping when I was outhauling my M-15 on relatively steep ramps. Have not had that problem with my Ford Ranger. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Does it have a manual transmission?
When I had my Catalina 22 I towed with with two very similar 80s Volvo 7 series cars, one an automatic, and the other a manual. I couldn't get it up the steepest ramps at all with the manual car, but with the automatic it was effortless... it climbed up nearly at idle. I think the automatic torque converter really helped- I would guess it generated at least 10 times the force from a standstill as the manual did. In my opinion a manual transmission is great for towing a boat, but only on cars with a low range 4WD, otherwise they can hardly generate any force from a standstill.
Sincerely, Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:30:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Happy to see more towing info, part of pocket/micro cruisers is real world experiences with what vehicles will and won't work. No point having a boat that's supposed to be towable by smaller vehicles if it's actually not, this is how we find out reality vs. manufacturer claims... ;-) And, ummm....how did you get the boat up the ramp then, if your Forester wouldn't do it? What year Forester, what engine? Manual or automatic? thanks, John S. On 08/25/2015 05:30 PM, stevetrapp wrote:
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Backman" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 10:56 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Steve,
What was the problem with the Forester? Too little power to keep up with traffic or something else?
Tyler
On Aug 24, 2015, at 7:38 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
I know by the date that this topic has come and gone, but I have been away from responding to M-Boats for awhile. I attempted to tow my M-15 with my Subaru Forrester and found it simply not up to the task, so I resumed towing my M-15 with my old but reliable Ford Ranger V-6, which does the job fine. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Always a useful topic... :-)
You're talking about a brand new car of one of these? In any case... The Subaru is all-wheel drive (AWD) whatever Outback model (engine, trans) you get. The Mazda has 2WD or AWD options, 2WD at the lower price point.
AWD is really nice to have on slippery boat ramps, so if you go for the Mazda, I say get the AWD (it's also nice to have for a lot of other adventures and for winter driving if you live in snow country).
Either one should not be at all stressed to tow an M-15. If it were an M-17 I would say go with the extra margin the Subaru claims (2700 vs. 2200 for the Mazda). And remember a lot of it is about brakes! See if you can find info on which has the better rated (actual testing, by e.g. Car & Driver or similar) brakes.
I have an older Outback (2001), which is only rated 2000 lbs. towing. I have rear overload springs and slightly better-than-stock front brakes. I would be confident towing an M-17 or equivalent; beyond confident for an M-15.
Daniel may want to chime in, he tows his M-15 with a newer Impreza (same carcass and engine, different body than Outback) rated same as you are looking at (2700). I recall he said it is more than adequate.
cheers, John S.
On 07/19/2015 03:12 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on either of these two cars that is capable of towing +2000 lbs.
Mazda CX 5 w 2.5 liter engine good to 2200 lbs
Subaru Outback w 2.5 liter engine good for 2700 lbs if trailer has brakes on it (no need for brakes below 2000 lbs)
Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine. Thanks Smiley M15 # 616
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
--
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I think the auto marketing industry tends to advertise more than the cars will actually deliver in many models on many issues. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:47 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Happy to see more towing info, part of pocket/micro cruisers is real world experiences with what vehicles will and won't work.
No point having a boat that's supposed to be towable by smaller vehicles if it's actually not, this is how we find out reality vs. manufacturer claims... ;-)
And, ummm....how did you get the boat up the ramp then, if your Forester wouldn't do it? What year Forester, what engine? Manual or automatic?
thanks, John S.
On 08/25/2015 05:30 PM, stevetrapp wrote:
My Subaru Forester did not seem to have enough muscle to get my M-15 up the launch ramp when I did outhaul. This happened at ramps on Lake Couer D' Alene in Idaho, and again at a ramp on South Puget Sound. Now I use my aging, but reliable Ford Ranger V-6. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Backman" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 10:56 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Steve,
What was the problem with the Forester? Too little power to keep up with traffic or something else?
Tyler
On Aug 24, 2015, at 7:38 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
I know by the date that this topic has come and gone, but I have been away from responding to M-Boats for awhile. I attempted to tow my M-15 with my Subaru Forrester and found it simply not up to the task, so I resumed towing my M-15 with my old but reliable Ford Ranger V-6, which does the job fine. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: sorry to bring it up again Towing
Always a useful topic... :-)
You're talking about a brand new car of one of these? In any case... The Subaru is all-wheel drive (AWD) whatever Outback model (engine, trans) you get. The Mazda has 2WD or AWD options, 2WD at the lower price point.
AWD is really nice to have on slippery boat ramps, so if you go for the Mazda, I say get the AWD (it's also nice to have for a lot of other adventures and for winter driving if you live in snow country).
Either one should not be at all stressed to tow an M-15. If it were an M-17 I would say go with the extra margin the Subaru claims (2700 vs. 2200 for the Mazda). And remember a lot of it is about brakes! See if you can find info on which has the better rated (actual testing, by e.g. Car & Driver or similar) brakes.
I have an older Outback (2001), which is only rated 2000 lbs. towing. I have rear overload springs and slightly better-than-stock front brakes. I would be confident towing an M-17 or equivalent; beyond confident for an M-15.
Daniel may want to chime in, he tows his M-15 with a newer Impreza (same carcass and engine, different body than Outback) rated same as you are looking at (2700). I recall he said it is more than adequate.
cheers, John S.
On 07/19/2015 03:12 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on either of these two cars that is capable of towing +2000 lbs.
Mazda CX 5 w 2.5 liter engine good to 2200 lbs
Subaru Outback w 2.5 liter engine good for 2700 lbs if trailer has brakes on it (no need for brakes below 2000 lbs)
Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine. Thanks Smiley M15 # 616
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
--
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4365/9875 - Release Date: 05/26/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
I tow my M15 with an '86 Isuzu Trooper diesel that has only about 70 horsepower, and it tows fine. It's interesting driving a vehicle so underpowered- it's about as fast uphill as a fully loaded semi truck. The M15 is so light, I don't think there are any cars sold in the USA nowadays that couldn't tow it easily, except maybe a smart car. Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 "Defiant"
On Jul 19, 2015, at 3:12 PM, Karen & Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Any actual confirmed feedback on experiences with these cars or hp of your tow vehicles engine
participants (9)
-
Bill Riker -
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Daniel Rich -
Dave Scobie -
John Schinnerer -
Karen & Smiley -
stevetrapp -
Tyler Backman
-
Tyler Heerwagen