Re: M_Boats: Motor shaft length M17 /Alternator/Alternative
John, I have 180 degree opinion and experience from your position as stated - I would actually rather burn the alternator money as amusement and spend 100+/- on a quality solar panel and another 35$ on a good regulator - my battery is always at 13.4 - 13.8 V and 100% of charge until I load them with running lights at night - they VERY quickly recover to above stated values - battery is 5+ years old and panel over 15 (replacement is in garage). When I was in the boat business, (literally sold over 1000 OB motors) I had the manufacturer's reps tell me that an alternator was a waste of $ - I still sold many to folks that desired them and NOT ONE had anything positive to report regarding the alternator's ability to charge the battery at all. (a couple were wired with '0' g tinned 'Ancor' wire for low resistance - wire runs to Industry Standards) - No Bueno - No Charge! As Dave points out - few run the motor at high throttle for any period of time. They DO provide additional weight at the powerhead, additional wiring, and may even trick a person into believing they could use electric start on their motor.... At 10hp or larger it becomes somewhat viable IF you run motor at speed for long periods and diligently maintain the circuit/batteries in top condition. I would heartily recommend (free ADVICE FOLKS ! !) a quality solar panel proper regulator and well maintained and constructed circuitry as a sound simple charging system for boats of this size and beyond. Different strokes, Have Fun Go Sailing, GO In a message dated 9/18/2015 11:30:35 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, john@eco-living.net writes: The Tohatsu web site shows the alternator as an option on the 5hp and 4hp. As far as I can tell it's the same exact motor, with reduced hp for the 5 and 4. Same castings and housing etc., but the alternator is not standard except on the sail pro 6hp model. If you can add it on for a reasonable cost it could be worth it. It will actually put some juice in your battery if you are motoring for a few hours here and there. In the same timeframe you will get nothing much from solar panels you can fit on a boat our size, unless you cover your topsides with amorphous thin-film photovoltaic material (theoretically possible these days, but doesn't work well as non-skid decking... :-). cheers, John S. On 09/18/2015 10:16 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John, I have the standard 20" long shaft. I believe the "Sailpro" comes as a 6 hp only. Also the alternator is available only on the 6. I believe I will investigate solar for trickle charging. Tom B. Monty 17 #258.1977
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 11:42 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The standard model (20" shaft) or the "sail pro" (25")?
I have the 6 hp sail pro, which from the specs is the same engine as the 5hp and 4hp, just with less hp (same weight, same displacement engine, same gear ratio, etc.).
cheers, John S.
On 09/18/2015 09:16 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Just bought a long shaft Tohatsu. The book that came with it states the cavitation plate should be one inch below the bottom of the boat. Hope that works out with Jerry's designed ob cutout.
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Jerry is having email problems so i'm sending this for him -
I tooled the original M17's transom cutout for a 4HP (a 2-cycle
Johnson)
long shaft outboard.
-- Jerry Montgomery
On 09/14/2015 10:24 AM, GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats wrote:
The mount was a frequent response to the lack of room in the cutout for
the shifter/throttle/tiller arm and some motors did not have enof
room
to
rotate for 'reverse' operation - I installed a tiny fixed mount at the
same height as the cut-out and use a 20" 4hp Evinrude Yachtwin (no reverse)
-
luckily solved all problems and adds minimum weight.
GO
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks for the inside scoop on small outboard alternators. I will be experimenting with what I got, to start with, so will see if the alternator is as junk as it sounds. Meanwhile, to be clear, I'm all for solar. I'd rather get by with no outboard at all, or the smallest necessary, which is why I asked about what people have found adequate for an M17. I've done years of small off-grid PV installations, upgrades, maintenance, including some boats, and grew up with a dad who taught electrical engineering and industrial electronics. So I make some claim to having a clue in that area. It's easy enough to do the math for a small boat - calculate the loads, maximize efficiency, see what it would take to keep the system charged on average. In the driveway or at the dock for days with no use, it's easy enough to keep the battery full. I'm concerned with cruising, keeping the system up and running when there's daily/nightly use and solar input may vary a lot. For example if one is in the southwest, versus the pacific northwest. And sailing in spring or fall (or winter!) vs. summer. cheers, John S. On 09/20/2015 03:27 PM, GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats wrote:
John,
I have 180 degree opinion and experience from your position as stated - I would actually rather burn the alternator money as amusement and spend 100+/- on a quality solar panel and another 35$ on a good regulator - my battery is always at 13.4 - 13.8 V and 100% of charge until I load them with running lights at night - they VERY quickly recover to above stated values - battery is 5+ years old and panel over 15 (replacement is in garage).
When I was in the boat business, (literally sold over 1000 OB motors) I had the manufacturer's reps tell me that an alternator was a waste of $ - I still sold many to folks that desired them and NOT ONE had anything positive to report regarding the alternator's ability to charge the battery at all. (a couple were wired with '0' g tinned 'Ancor' wire for low resistance - wire runs to Industry Standards) - No Bueno - No Charge! As Dave points out - few run the motor at high throttle for any period of time. They DO provide additional weight at the powerhead, additional wiring, and may even trick a person into believing they could use electric start on their motor.... At 10hp or larger it becomes somewhat viable IF you run motor at speed for long periods and diligently maintain the circuit/batteries in top condition.
I would heartily recommend (free ADVICE FOLKS ! !) a quality solar panel proper regulator and well maintained and constructed circuitry as a sound simple charging system for boats of this size and beyond.
Different strokes,
Have Fun Go Sailing,
GO
In a message dated 9/18/2015 11:30:35 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, john@eco-living.net writes:
The Tohatsu web site shows the alternator as an option on the 5hp and 4hp. As far as I can tell it's the same exact motor, with reduced hp for the 5 and 4. Same castings and housing etc., but the alternator is not standard except on the sail pro 6hp model.
If you can add it on for a reasonable cost it could be worth it. It will actually put some juice in your battery if you are motoring for a few hours here and there.
In the same timeframe you will get nothing much from solar panels you can fit on a boat our size, unless you cover your topsides with amorphous thin-film photovoltaic material (theoretically possible these days, but doesn't work well as non-skid decking... :-).
cheers, John S.
On 09/18/2015 10:16 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John, I have the standard 20" long shaft. I believe the "Sailpro" comes as a 6 hp only. Also the alternator is available only on the 6. I believe I will investigate solar for trickle charging. Tom B. Monty 17 #258.1977
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 11:42 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The standard model (20" shaft) or the "sail pro" (25")?
I have the 6 hp sail pro, which from the specs is the same engine as the 5hp and 4hp, just with less hp (same weight, same displacement engine, same gear ratio, etc.).
cheers, John S.
On 09/18/2015 09:16 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Just bought a long shaft Tohatsu. The book that came with it states the cavitation plate should be one inch below the bottom of the boat. Hope that works out with Jerry's designed ob cutout.
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Jerry is having email problems so i'm sending this for him -
I tooled the original M17's transom cutout for a 4HP (a 2-cycle
Johnson)
long shaft outboard.
-- Jerry Montgomery
On 09/14/2015 10:24 AM, GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats wrote:
>
The mount was a frequent response to the lack of room in the cutout for
> the shifter/throttle/tiller arm and some motors did not have enof
room
> to
rotate for 'reverse' operation - I installed a tiny fixed mount at the > same > height as the cut-out and use a 20" 4hp Evinrude Yachtwin (no reverse) > -
luckily solved all problems and adds minimum weight. > > GO >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
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