A few comments on the M15 (also true for Sage 15, SageCat and 17) rudder cheeks: The aluminum is hard anodized. I'd look into having the cheeks serviced, meaning any damage repaired, and re-anodized as a first preferred option. The aluminum is grade 6061. Not all the holes for the fasteners are not just drilled and done. Some are beveled in the inner-side. There is a port and starboard cheek. Those locations where there a bevel are so the rudder can clear the fasteners. These fasteners that are in the path of the rudder are flathead machine screws. Some rudder wiggling is normal. This happens in light or less wind conditions, especially if the seas are choppy. If the compression posts are to tight the kickup function becomes difficult to impossible. If hints on setting the cheek/fastener tension are needed let me know. I discuss how to disassemble a M/S rudder here - https://m17-375.com/2019/03/06/spring-commissioning-rudder-and-tiller/ If you have a home shop, or a friend with a home shop, making a new set is possible and then find an place for anodizing. To pay a shop will likely mean it is less expensive to buy a new RudderCraft rudder assembly. DON'T get a HDPE rudder as IT WILL WARP. I have never seen a HDPE rudder that was it remained straight. Purchase the fiberglass 'blue water' rudder. IMO stainless cheeks would weight to much and have a greater danger of quick failure because of crevice corrosion. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site! On Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 9:19 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:

Skipper David

I would just make some new rudder cheeks. Saw the shape on a band saw and transfer punch and drill new holes. Or go Bristol with stainless steel

Capt Jim

SV Pelican

-----Original Message----- From: David Grah Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2021 1:12 PM Subject: M_Boats: New Montgomery 15 Rudder Blade and Questions

I just received the new rudder blade I purchased for my Montomgery 15 from Bobby Chilek at Bobby's Boat Works and it is really great. Our old blade I think was original with the boat built in 1986. It had split top and bottom and had a run-in with a propeller at some point along with a number of other bruises. Recently I had filled all the various divots in it but have never been satisfied with the result. The new blade is nicely shaped and finished, is a little wider than the old blade, and its pivot hole is in a slightly different spot. All in all, if you're thinking about a new rudder blade, I'd recommend Bobby's.

Fitting the new blade in the rest of rudder assembly got me to thinking about the condition of the aluminum rudder cheeks (I guess that is what they are called) and what I can do to rehabilitate them. The issue with them is primarily wear in some of the holes in the aluminum, most significantly the pivot hole for the rudder blade. The pivot hole in the aluminum cheeks had significant wear and, a few years ago, I bushed them with some sort of metallic bushing, probably a brass or bronze (the wood of the rudder blade had some play too that I improved with epoxy and re-drilling the hole). Those bushings have worked well reducing the play in the rudder assembly but, over the years, the dissimilar metals of the cheeks and the bushings have developed signs of corrosion. In addition to issues with the pivot hole, upon close inspection, I see the front mounting holes of the bottom pintle are also showing signs of wear. At this point I am wondering if a good treatment for these worn holes in the aluminum cheeks is to weld them over and re-drill them and wondered if any in this community has insights about this idea. I'm thinking some 1/8 inch doublers welded over the welded-over existing pivot holes, welding over the other worn holes, and then redrilling all these holes might be a good way to put more life into those old cheeks. So, my questions:

I don't know much about welding, but does this approach make sense? Is there anything I should know about the particular aluminum used for the existing cheeks, the particular aluminum to use for doublers, or the welding materials or process to make this approach most likely to succeed? I realize the doublers could only be welded on around the edges leaving water a place to get between the cheeks and doublers if it got in through some sort of welding flaw. Should I be concerned about this possibility? If so, would it work to develop the additional thickness by welding new material onto the cheeks with no doublers?

I assume a local welding shop could handle the welding part. Does that make sense? As always, thanks for any and all feedback, information, and ideas.

David GrahBishop Calfornia

A few comments on the M15 (also true for Sage 15, SageCat and 17) rudder cheeks: The aluminum is hard anodized. I'd look into having the cheeks serviced, meaning any damage repaired, and re-anodized as a first preferred option. The aluminum is grade 6061. Not all the holes for the fasteners are not just drilled and done. Some are beveled in the inner-side. There is a port and starboard cheek. Those locations where there a bevel are so the rudder can clear the fasteners. These fasteners that are in the path of the rudder are flathead machine screws. Some rudder wiggling is normal. This happens in light or less wind conditions, especially if the seas are choppy. If the compression posts are to tight the kickup function becomes difficult to impossible. If hints on setting the cheek/fastener tension are needed let me know. I discuss how to disassemble a M/S rudder here - https://m17-375.com/2019/03/06/spring-commissioning-rudder-and-tiller/ If you have a home shop, or a friend with a home shop, making a new set is possible and then find an place for anodizing. To pay a shop will likely mean it is less expensive to buy a new RudderCraft rudder assembly. DON'T get a HDPE rudder as IT WILL WARP. I have never seen a HDPE rudder that was it remained straight. Purchase the fiberglass 'blue water' rudder. IMO stainless cheeks would weight to much and have a greater danger of quick failure because of crevice corrosion. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site! On Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 9:19 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:

Skipper David

I would just make some new rudder cheeks. Saw the shape on a band saw and transfer punch and drill new holes. Or go Bristol with stainless steel

Capt Jim

SV Pelican

-----Original Message----- From: David Grah via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2021 1:12 PM To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: David Grah <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> Subject: M_Boats: New Montgomery 15 Rudder Blade and Questions

I just received the new rudder blade I purchased for my Montomgery 15 from Bobby Chilek at Bobby's Boat Works and it is really great. Our old blade I think was original with the boat built in 1986. It had split top and bottom and had a run-in with a propeller at some point along with a number of other bruises. Recently I had filled all the various divots in it but have never been satisfied with the result. The new blade is nicely shaped and finished, is a little wider than the old blade, and its pivot hole is in a slightly different spot. All in all, if you're thinking about a new rudder blade, I'd recommend Bobby's.

Fitting the new blade in the rest of rudder assembly got me to thinking about the condition of the aluminum rudder cheeks (I guess that is what they are called) and what I can do to rehabilitate them. The issue with them is primarily wear in some of the holes in the aluminum, most significantly the pivot hole for the rudder blade. The pivot hole in the aluminum cheeks had significant wear and, a few years ago, I bushed them with some sort of metallic bushing, probably a brass or bronze (the wood of the rudder blade had some play too that I improved with epoxy and re-drilling the hole). Those bushings have worked well reducing the play in the rudder assembly but, over the years, the dissimilar metals of the cheeks and the bushings have developed signs of corrosion. In addition to issues with the pivot hole, upon close inspection, I see the front mounting holes of the bottom pintle are also showing signs of wear. At this point I am wondering if a good treatment for these worn holes in the aluminum cheeks is to weld them over and re-drill them and wondered if any in this community has insights about this idea. I'm thinking some 1/8 inch doublers welded over the welded-over existing pivot holes, welding over the other worn holes, and then redrilling all these holes might be a good way to put more life into those old cheeks. So, my questions:

I don't know much about welding, but does this approach make sense? Is there anything I should know about the particular aluminum used for the existing cheeks, the particular aluminum to use for doublers, or the welding materials or process to make this approach most likely to succeed? I realize the doublers could only be welded on around the edges leaving water a place to get between the cheeks and doublers if it got in through some sort of welding flaw. Should I be concerned about this possibility? If so, would it work to develop the additional thickness by welding new material onto the cheeks with no doublers?

I assume a local welding shop could handle the welding part. Does that make sense? As always, thanks for any and all feedback, information, and ideas.

David GrahBishop Calfornia

Agree with Tyler On our rudders I had them laser cut out of 6061 then powder coated black. The pivot hole is 1/4 inch and if over the years it elongated I would just drill it 5/16 and call it a day. It might elongate again in 38 years.. Bob Eeg Sent from my iPad

On Nov 18, 2021, at 9:35 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:

Hi David,

I'd probably drill the rudder cheek holes a little larger, and install nylon bushings. This would avoid the dissimilar metal contact between the stainless bolt and aluminum cheek also. I ended up doing this a bunch of places on my M15, including the mast and boom.

Sincerely, Tyler

----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "David Grah" <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2021 1:11:37 PM Subject: M_Boats: New Montgomery 15 Rudder Blade and Questions

I just received the new rudder blade I purchased for my Montomgery 15 from Bobby Chilek at Bobby's Boat Works and it is really great. Our old blade I think was original with the boat built in 1986. It had split top and bottom and had a run-in with a propeller at some point along with a number of other bruises. Recently I had filled all the various divots in it but have never been satisfied with the result. The new blade is nicely shaped and finished, is a little wider than the old blade, and its pivot hole is in a slightly different spot. All in all, if you're thinking about a new rudder blade, I'd recommend Bobby's.

Fitting the new blade in the rest of rudder assembly got me to thinking about the condition of the aluminum rudder cheeks (I guess that is what they are called) and what I can do to rehabilitate them. The issue with them is primarily wear in some of the holes in the aluminum, most significantly the pivot hole for the rudder blade. The pivot hole in the aluminum cheeks had significant wear and, a few years ago, I bushed them with some sort of metallic bushing, probably a brass or bronze (the wood of the rudder blade had some play too that I improved with epoxy and re-drilling the hole). Those bushings have worked well reducing the play in the rudder assembly but, over the years, the dissimilar metals of the cheeks and the bushings have developed signs of corrosion. In addition to issues with the pivot hole, upon close inspection, I see the front mounting holes of the bottom pintle are also showing signs of wear. At this point I am wondering if a good treatment for these worn holes in the aluminum cheeks is to weld them over and re-drill them and wondered if any in this community has insights about this idea. I'm thinking some 1/8 inch doublers welded over the welded-over existing pivot holes, welding over the other worn holes, and then redrilling all these holes might be a good way to put more life into those old cheeks. So, my questions:

I don't know much about welding, but does this approach make sense? Is there anything I should know about the particular aluminum used for the existing cheeks, the particular aluminum to use for doublers, or the welding materials or process to make this approach most likely to succeed? I realize the doublers could only be welded on around the edges leaving water a place to get between the cheeks and doublers if it got in through some sort of welding flaw. Should I be concerned about this possibility? If so, would it work to develop the additional thickness by welding new material onto the cheeks with no doublers?

I assume a local welding shop could handle the welding part. Does that make sense? As always, thanks for any and all feedback, information, and ideas.

David GrahBishop Calfornia