Steve, So would I be right in assuming you would recommend not buying the optional blower lid? That's about a $400 savings, and makes the price of the stove slightly less outrageous. Larry On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 07:47:45 -0700 "Steve & Diana Parsons" <sparsons@canby.com> writes:
Howard,
Our Wallas heats very fast, not like a propane or gas stove, but it is fast. We have two burners that are both on at the same time. One is cooler than the other. Coffee water in the AM is just takes a few minutes. The heat is effectively adjustable to the point of being able to fry things like fish without burning it. The lid on our stove contains a fan that circulates air when the stove is on and the lid is down. To save amps, we use the eco fan and leave the lid up.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters
If I understand this product right, it has an enclosed combustion chamber beneath the cast iron heating plate, so combustion gases are vented to the outside. You can cook on it, or it also acts like a radiant heater, so you can blow air over it to provide heat?
The downside I see is how long it would take to warm the plate up to cook on, and how hot it gets. The big criteria for boat stoves seems to be how long to boil water. This one might come in last. I've also heard of folks using small, solid fuel wood/coal/wood pellet stoves in the same way. Same problem as I see it......how long is it going to take to get it going?
In all but the coldest weather, cooking inside on an exposed flame has never been a problem for me. The companionway is usually open and you can open the hatch for even more ventilation. Cold, wet, windy weather is when the problem starts.
In working with the steam heat system of a very old building, I've come to appreciate the comfort offered by radiant steam heat. In trying to figure out how to downsize one to a boat, what I've come up with is an idea for a small boiler (perhaps no more than a quart of water) piped to a section of copper fin tube. (A boiler repair guy I talked to told me there are very small experimental lab sized boilers available). Steam is generated, which heats the copper and heat is released by convection and as radiant heat. (Same basic heat system as your car uses....except it's steam vs. pumped hot water). Steam condenses in the pipe and gravity flows back to the boil pot. In a small, enclosed, pressurized system, a small burner about the size of butane torch is all that would be needed and then only on the lowest setting. The combustion fumes would be piped to the outside, requiring no more than a 1 inch stainless pipe. The same Ecco fan mounted near the fin tube would be used to circulate air. No pumps, no juice, no moving parts.
And no plans to build it. Just an idea.
Howard
On Oct 2, 2007, at 12:43 PM, Larry E Yake wrote:
http://www.scanmarineusa.com/Wallas_stove_800.pdf
I've done some follow-up on the Wallas stove / heater combination. The model 800 mini-stove with the 220 blower lid looks to be an ideal set-up for a galley model M17 or a M23. Unfortunately, they are VERY expensive. Adds up to a little over $1500 with all the installation components.
Larry
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Larry, I think I would buy it for times when you want the heat to get dispersed quickly. The Eco Fans are good, but not fast. Not sure how many CFMs they push around. On the other hand, my thinking if for the cabin of a CDory, not my Montgomery, so it's a toss of the coin. On the CDory, when I want to get the windows defogged in a hurry is when I typically use the lid fan. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry E Yake" <leyake@juno.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters
Steve,
So would I be right in assuming you would recommend not buying the optional blower lid? That's about a $400 savings, and makes the price of the stove slightly less outrageous.
Larry
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 07:47:45 -0700 "Steve & Diana Parsons" <sparsons@canby.com> writes:
Howard,
Our Wallas heats very fast, not like a propane or gas stove, but it is fast. We have two burners that are both on at the same time. One is cooler than the other. Coffee water in the AM is just takes a few minutes. The heat is effectively adjustable to the point of being able to fry things like fish without burning it. The lid on our stove contains a fan that circulates air when the stove is on and the lid is down. To save amps, we use the eco fan and leave the lid up.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters
If I understand this product right, it has an enclosed combustion chamber beneath the cast iron heating plate, so combustion gases are vented to the outside. You can cook on it, or it also acts like a radiant heater, so you can blow air over it to provide heat?
The downside I see is how long it would take to warm the plate up to cook on, and how hot it gets. The big criteria for boat stoves seems to be how long to boil water. This one might come in last. I've also heard of folks using small, solid fuel wood/coal/wood pellet stoves in the same way. Same problem as I see it......how long is it going to take to get it going?
In all but the coldest weather, cooking inside on an exposed flame has never been a problem for me. The companionway is usually open and you can open the hatch for even more ventilation. Cold, wet, windy weather is when the problem starts.
In working with the steam heat system of a very old building, I've come to appreciate the comfort offered by radiant steam heat. In trying to figure out how to downsize one to a boat, what I've come up with is an idea for a small boiler (perhaps no more than a quart of water) piped to a section of copper fin tube. (A boiler repair guy I talked to told me there are very small experimental lab sized boilers available). Steam is generated, which heats the copper and heat is released by convection and as radiant heat. (Same basic heat system as your car uses....except it's steam vs. pumped hot water). Steam condenses in the pipe and gravity flows back to the boil pot. In a small, enclosed, pressurized system, a small burner about the size of butane torch is all that would be needed and then only on the lowest setting. The combustion fumes would be piped to the outside, requiring no more than a 1 inch stainless pipe. The same Ecco fan mounted near the fin tube would be used to circulate air. No pumps, no juice, no moving parts.
And no plans to build it. Just an idea.
Howard
On Oct 2, 2007, at 12:43 PM, Larry E Yake wrote:
http://www.scanmarineusa.com/Wallas_stove_800.pdf
I've done some follow-up on the Wallas stove / heater combination. The model 800 mini-stove with the 220 blower lid looks to be an ideal set-up for a galley model M17 or a M23. Unfortunately, they are VERY expensive. Adds up to a little over $1500 with all the installation components.
Larry
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Steve, What size of C-dory do you have? I was looking at a 22 when I got sidetracked with the M17, but a CD 16 or 22 would be a nice complement to a Montgomery in a miniature fleet. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+tjenk=gte.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+tjenk=gte.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Steve & Diana Parsons Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 1:58 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters Larry, I think I would buy it for times when you want the heat to get dispersed quickly. The Eco Fans are good, but not fast. Not sure how many CFMs they push around. On the other hand, my thinking if for the cabin of a CDory, not my Montgomery, so it's a toss of the coin. On the CDory, when I want to get the windows defogged in a hurry is when I typically use the lid fan. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry E Yake" <leyake@juno.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters
Steve,
So would I be right in assuming you would recommend not buying the optional blower lid? That's about a $400 savings, and makes the price of the stove slightly less outrageous.
Larry
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 07:47:45 -0700 "Steve & Diana Parsons" <sparsons@canby.com> writes:
Howard,
Our Wallas heats very fast, not like a propane or gas stove, but it is fast. We have two burners that are both on at the same time. One is cooler than the other. Coffee water in the AM is just takes a few minutes. The heat is effectively adjustable to the point of being able to fry things like fish without burning it. The lid on our stove contains a fan that circulates air when the stove is on and the lid is down. To save amps, we use the eco fan and leave the lid up.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters
If I understand this product right, it has an enclosed combustion chamber beneath the cast iron heating plate, so combustion gases are vented to the outside. You can cook on it, or it also acts like a radiant heater, so you can blow air over it to provide heat?
The downside I see is how long it would take to warm the plate up to cook on, and how hot it gets. The big criteria for boat stoves seems to be how long to boil water. This one might come in last. I've also heard of folks using small, solid fuel wood/coal/wood pellet stoves in the same way. Same problem as I see it......how long is it going to take to get it going?
In all but the coldest weather, cooking inside on an exposed flame has never been a problem for me. The companionway is usually open and you can open the hatch for even more ventilation. Cold, wet, windy weather is when the problem starts.
In working with the steam heat system of a very old building, I've come to appreciate the comfort offered by radiant steam heat. In trying to figure out how to downsize one to a boat, what I've come up with is an idea for a small boiler (perhaps no more than a quart of water) piped to a section of copper fin tube. (A boiler repair guy I talked to told me there are very small experimental lab sized boilers available). Steam is generated, which heats the copper and heat is released by convection and as radiant heat. (Same basic heat system as your car uses....except it's steam vs. pumped hot water). Steam condenses in the pipe and gravity flows back to the boil pot. In a small, enclosed, pressurized system, a small burner about the size of butane torch is all that would be needed and then only on the lowest setting. The combustion fumes would be piped to the outside, requiring no more than a 1 inch stainless pipe. The same Ecco fan mounted near the fin tube would be used to circulate air. No pumps, no juice, no moving parts.
And no plans to build it. Just an idea.
Howard
On Oct 2, 2007, at 12:43 PM, Larry E Yake wrote:
http://www.scanmarineusa.com/Wallas_stove_800.pdf
I've done some follow-up on the Wallas stove / heater combination. The model 800 mini-stove with the 220 blower lid looks to be an ideal set-up for a galley model M17 or a M23. Unfortunately, they are VERY expensive. Adds up to a little over $1500 with all the installation components.
Larry
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Tom, I have a 2005 CD 22 cruiser. Love the boat. If you are interested in the boats, there is a real active owners group at www.c- brats.com. It's almost the same kind of a cult as the Montgomery clan... Steve On Oct 20, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Steve, What size of C-dory do you have? I was looking at a 22 when I got sidetracked with the M17, but a CD 16 or 22 would be a nice complement to a Montgomery in a miniature fleet.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+tjenk=gte.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces +tjenk=gte.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Steve & Diana Parsons Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 1:58 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters
Larry,
I think I would buy it for times when you want the heat to get dispersed quickly. The Eco Fans are good, but not fast. Not sure how many CFMs they push around. On the other hand, my thinking if for the cabin of a CDory, not my Montgomery, so it's a toss of the coin. On the CDory, when I
want to get the windows defogged in a hurry is when I typically use the lid fan. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry E Yake" <leyake@juno.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters
Steve,
So would I be right in assuming you would recommend not buying the optional blower lid? That's about a $400 savings, and makes the price of the stove slightly less outrageous.
Larry
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 07:47:45 -0700 "Steve & Diana Parsons" <sparsons@canby.com> writes:
Howard,
Our Wallas heats very fast, not like a propane or gas stove, but it is fast. We have two burners that are both on at the same time. One is cooler than the other. Coffee water in the AM is just takes a few minutes. The heat is effectively adjustable to the point of being able to fry things like fish without burning it. The lid on our stove contains a fan that circulates air when the stove is on and the lid is down. To save amps, we use the eco fan and leave the lid up.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cabin stove / heaters
If I understand this product right, it has an enclosed combustion chamber beneath the cast iron heating plate, so combustion gases are vented to the outside. You can cook on it, or it also acts like a radiant heater, so you can blow air over it to provide heat?
The downside I see is how long it would take to warm the plate up to cook on, and how hot it gets. The big criteria for boat stoves seems to be how long to boil water. This one might come in last. I've also heard of folks using small, solid fuel wood/coal/wood pellet stoves in the same way. Same problem as I see it......how long is it going to take to get it going?
In all but the coldest weather, cooking inside on an exposed flame has never been a problem for me. The companionway is usually open and you can open the hatch for even more ventilation. Cold, wet, windy weather is when the problem starts.
In working with the steam heat system of a very old building, I've come to appreciate the comfort offered by radiant steam heat. In trying to figure out how to downsize one to a boat, what I've come up with is an idea for a small boiler (perhaps no more than a quart of water) piped to a section of copper fin tube. (A boiler repair guy I talked to told me there are very small experimental lab sized boilers available). Steam is generated, which heats the copper and heat is released by convection and as radiant heat. (Same basic heat system as your car uses....except it's steam vs. pumped hot water). Steam condenses in the pipe and gravity flows back to the boil pot. In a small, enclosed, pressurized system, a small burner about the size of butane torch is all that would be needed and then only on the lowest setting. The combustion fumes would be piped to the outside, requiring no more than a 1 inch stainless pipe. The same Ecco fan mounted near the fin tube would be used to circulate air. No pumps, no juice, no moving parts.
And no plans to build it. Just an idea.
Howard
On Oct 2, 2007, at 12:43 PM, Larry E Yake wrote:
http://www.scanmarineusa.com/Wallas_stove_800.pdf
I've done some follow-up on the Wallas stove / heater combination. The model 800 mini-stove with the 220 blower lid looks to be an ideal set-up for a galley model M17 or a M23. Unfortunately, they are VERY expensive. Adds up to a little over $1500 with all the installation components.
Larry
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
participants (4)
-
Larry E Yake -
Steve & Diana Parsons -
Steve and Diana Parsons
-
Tom Jenkins