Butyl tape as bedding compound
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet. Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff? Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
Gordon, Good question. I have a lot deck hardware off right now as well. It seems as though the Butyl tape never quite "sets" so it is always soft. That moves any stress is through the tape to the deck, it shifts the stress to the bolt holes and causing stress fractures around the hole. So based on this I will stay with 3M 4200. I am certainly no expert so I am curious to hear any other response. It does seem to be a very good use for things like windows or mast steps and is easier to work with than 3M 4200. Thanks Doug Kelch --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Gordon Gilbert <gordon@financialwriting.net> wrote: From: Gordon Gilbert <gordon@financialwriting.net> Subject: M_Boats: Butyl tape as bedding compound To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 1:22 PM I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet. Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff? Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked. I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured. If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece. Howard On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :) Gordon On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Hi Gordon, I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring. --Chad On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I
Not to hijack this thread, but Chad, can you elaborate on your Apostle Islands trip? I assume you're talking about Lake Superior. I am planning a trip there this summer to practice some coastal navigation and open sea sailing in my M15 and would appreciate any information on currents/weather/etc in the area. I'm thinking that I'd like to go from either Duluth or Two Harbors across the lake to the Apostles and back, if I have time. Thanks! Chris M15 Persephone
found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
-- Chris
Hi Chris, I joined Gordon's trip to the Apostle Islands that he organized, there were 4 of us that spent a few days sailing around the islands and it was a lot of fun, plenty of open water sailing for me and my experience level. I don't think there is much to say about currents, but weather on Lake Superior has a nasty way of sneaking up on you REALLY fast with little warning and if you do end up going in the water the water temp (52 degrees) is cold enough where you don't have a lot of time. Lake Superior can be very unforgiving. In my opinion Lake Superior offers the best sailing you will find in the midwest with destinations such as the Apostle Islands and Isle Royale. One of the biggest advantages we have with our trailer sailers is we don't have to spend alot of time sailing to these destinations and nor do we have to pay the really high slip fees in order to enjoy these locations with our boats. I would suggest trailer to the Apostles and sail there as there really isn't anything between Duluth, and the Apostles. If you really are looking for an open water adventure then trailer your boat up to Grand Portage and do the crossing to Isle Royale. Between Isle Royale, the Flat Head and Slate Islands there is no shortage of beautiful places to take your boat. Regards, Chad On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Chris Smith wrote:
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I
Not to hijack this thread, but Chad, can you elaborate on your Apostle Islands trip? I assume you're talking about Lake Superior. I am planning a trip there this summer to practice some coastal navigation and open sea sailing in my M15 and would appreciate any information on currents/weather/etc in the area. I'm thinking that I'd like to go from either Duluth or Two Harbors across the lake to the Apostles and back, if I have time.
Thanks!
Chris M15 Persephone
found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
-- Chris _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Chad, Perhaps starting small with a little bit of the Apostle Islands would be good. I've been up there before in my dad's MacGregor26 and we got caught in just such a weather event: beautiful sunny day, low winds, then POOF! high winds that almost knocked us over (the only time I've seen that boat's sails hit the water) and then crazy storm. I'm afraid my M15 would go straight over and I'd be up to my eyeballs in hypothermia... I was thinking that I'd like to use the opportunity to brush up on my crossing skills for going to the bahamas or, eventually, hawaii (some guy did it in a M15!)... mebbe I'll start small in water that cold. Thanks for the advice! Chris M15 Persephone On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Chris,
I joined Gordon's trip to the Apostle Islands that he organized, there were 4 of us that spent a few days sailing around the islands and it was a lot of fun, plenty of open water sailing for me and my experience level. I don't think there is much to say about currents, but weather on Lake Superior has a nasty way of sneaking up on you REALLY fast with little warning and if you do end up going in the water the water temp (52 degrees) is cold enough where you don't have a lot of time. Lake Superior can be very unforgiving. In my opinion Lake Superior offers the best sailing you will find in the midwest with destinations such as the Apostle Islands and Isle Royale. One of the biggest advantages we have with our trailer sailers is we don't have to spend alot of time sailing to these destinations and nor do we have to pay the really high slip fees in order to enjoy these locations with our boats. I would suggest trailer to the Apostles and sail there as there really isn't anything between Duluth, and the Apostles. If you really are looking for an open water adventure then trailer your boat up to Grand Portage and do the crossing to Isle Royale. Between Isle Royale, the Flat Head and Slate Islands there is no shortage of beautiful places to take your boat.
Regards,
Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Chris Smith wrote:
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I
Not to hijack this thread, but Chad, can you elaborate on your Apostle Islands trip? I assume you're talking about Lake Superior. I am planning a trip there this summer to practice some coastal navigation and open sea sailing in my M15 and would appreciate any information on currents/weather/etc in the area. I'm thinking that I'd like to go from either Duluth or Two Harbors across the lake to the Apostles and back, if I have time.
Thanks!
Chris M15 Persephone
found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
-- Chris _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
-- Chris
Chris, FWIW, I would be more comfortable in my M15 than a McGregor in the conditions you describe. That said, I've never sailed in a McGregor, but have been sailing for 50+ years, and have had my M15's mast parallel to the water (according to the skipper of a nearby boat.) I participated in the Apostle Islands cruise last summer and enjoyed it very much. The weather cooperated and the camaraderie was great. We had lots of wind on a couple of days. You need to watch the slots between islands as the wind speed can change dramatically even without a storm. Enjoy! Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chris Smith Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:53 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Apostle Islands Sailing Chad, Perhaps starting small with a little bit of the Apostle Islands would be good. I've been up there before in my dad's MacGregor26 and we got caught in just such a weather event: beautiful sunny day, low winds, then POOF! high winds that almost knocked us over (the only time I've seen that boat's sails hit the water) and then crazy storm. I'm afraid my M15 would go straight over and I'd be up to my eyeballs in hypothermia... I was thinking that I'd like to use the opportunity to brush up on my crossing skills for going to the bahamas or, eventually, hawaii (some guy did it in a M15!)... mebbe I'll start small in water that cold. Thanks for the advice! Chris M15 Persephone On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Chris,
I joined Gordon's trip to the Apostle Islands that he organized, there were 4 of us that spent a few days sailing around the islands and it was a lot of fun, plenty of open water sailing for me and my experience level. I don't think there is much to say about currents, but weather on Lake Superior has a nasty way of sneaking up on you REALLY fast with little warning and if you do end up going in the water the water temp (52 degrees) is cold enough where you don't have a lot of time. Lake Superior can be very unforgiving. In my opinion Lake Superior offers the best sailing you will find in the midwest with destinations such as the Apostle Islands and Isle Royale. One of the biggest advantages we have with our trailer sailers is we don't have to spend alot of time sailing to these destinations and nor do we have to pay the really high slip fees in order to enjoy these locations with our boats. I would suggest trailer to the Apostles and sail there as there really isn't anything between Duluth, and the Apostles. If you really are looking for an open water adventure then trailer your boat up to Grand Portage and do the crossing to Isle Royale. Between Isle Royale, the Flat Head and Slate Islands there is no shortage of beautiful places to take your boat.
Regards,
Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Chris Smith wrote:
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I
Not to hijack this thread, but Chad, can you elaborate on your Apostle Islands trip? I assume you're talking about Lake Superior. I am planning a trip there this summer to practice some coastal navigation and open sea sailing in my M15 and would appreciate any information on currents/weather/etc in the area. I'm thinking that I'd like to go from either Duluth or Two Harbors across the lake to the Apostles and back, if I have time.
Thanks!
Chris M15 Persephone
found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
-- Chris _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
-- Chris _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hey, Chris: I'm hoping we can have another Montys Apostles Cruise this coming September. Watch for details later. We'd love to have you join us! Gordon On Jan 9, 2009, at 6:05 PM, William B. Riker wrote:
Chris,
FWIW, I would be more comfortable in my M15 than a McGregor in the conditions you describe. That said, I've never sailed in a McGregor, but have been sailing for 50+ years, and have had my M15's mast parallel to the water (according to the skipper of a nearby boat.)
I participated in the Apostle Islands cruise last summer and enjoyed it very much. The weather cooperated and the camaraderie was great. We had lots of wind on a couple of days. You need to watch the slots between islands as the wind speed can change dramatically even without a storm.
Enjoy!
Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chris Smith Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:53 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Apostle Islands Sailing
Chad, Perhaps starting small with a little bit of the Apostle Islands would be good. I've been up there before in my dad's MacGregor26 and we got caught in just such a weather event: beautiful sunny day, low winds, then POOF! high winds that almost knocked us over (the only time I've seen that boat's sails hit the water) and then crazy storm. I'm afraid my M15 would go straight over and I'd be up to my eyeballs in hypothermia...
I was thinking that I'd like to use the opportunity to brush up on my crossing skills for going to the bahamas or, eventually, hawaii (some guy did it in a M15!)... mebbe I'll start small in water that cold.
Thanks for the advice!
Chris M15 Persephone
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Chris,
I joined Gordon's trip to the Apostle Islands that he organized, there were 4 of us that spent a few days sailing around the islands and it was a lot of fun, plenty of open water sailing for me and my experience level. I don't think there is much to say about currents, but weather on Lake Superior has a nasty way of sneaking up on you REALLY fast with little warning and if you do end up going in the water the water temp (52 degrees) is cold enough where you don't have a lot of time. Lake Superior can be very unforgiving. In my opinion Lake Superior offers the best sailing you will find in the midwest with destinations such as the Apostle Islands and Isle Royale. One of the biggest advantages we have with our trailer sailers is we don't have to spend alot of time sailing to these destinations and nor do we have to pay the really high slip fees in order to enjoy these locations with our boats. I would suggest trailer to the Apostles and sail there as there really isn't anything between Duluth, and the Apostles. If you really are looking for an open water adventure then trailer your boat up to Grand Portage and do the crossing to Isle Royale. Between Isle Royale, the Flat Head and Slate Islands there is no shortage of beautiful places to take your boat.
Regards,
Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Chris Smith wrote:
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I
Not to hijack this thread, but Chad, can you elaborate on your Apostle Islands trip? I assume you're talking about Lake Superior. I am planning a trip there this summer to practice some coastal navigation and open sea sailing in my M15 and would appreciate any information on currents/weather/etc in the area. I'm thinking that I'd like to go from either Duluth or Two Harbors across the lake to the Apostles and back, if I have time.
Thanks!
Chris M15 Persephone
found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
> I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining > the > attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The > fiberglass > guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape > as a > bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's > easier > to > work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet. > > Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to > try > butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting > seal. > Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff? > > Gordon > M-17 #377 "Sapphire" > Milwaukee > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Gordon Gilbert <gordon@financialwriting.net
wrote:
Hey, Chris: I'm hoping we can have another Montys Apostles Cruise this coming September. Watch for details later. We'd love to have you join us!
Sounds great! Chris M15 Persephone
Gordon
On Jan 9, 2009, at 6:05 PM, William B. Riker wrote:
Chris,
FWIW, I would be more comfortable in my M15 than a McGregor in the conditions you describe. That said, I've never sailed in a McGregor, but have been sailing for 50+ years, and have had my M15's mast parallel to the water (according to the skipper of a nearby boat.)
I participated in the Apostle Islands cruise last summer and enjoyed it very much. The weather cooperated and the camaraderie was great. We had lots of wind on a couple of days. You need to watch the slots between islands as the wind speed can change dramatically even without a storm.
Enjoy!
Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chris Smith Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:53 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Apostle Islands Sailing
Chad, Perhaps starting small with a little bit of the Apostle Islands would be good. I've been up there before in my dad's MacGregor26 and we got caught in just such a weather event: beautiful sunny day, low winds, then POOF! high winds that almost knocked us over (the only time I've seen that boat's sails hit the water) and then crazy storm. I'm afraid my M15 would go straight over and I'd be up to my eyeballs in hypothermia...
I was thinking that I'd like to use the opportunity to brush up on my crossing skills for going to the bahamas or, eventually, hawaii (some guy did it in a M15!)... mebbe I'll start small in water that cold.
Thanks for the advice!
Chris M15 Persephone
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Chris,
I joined Gordon's trip to the Apostle Islands that he organized, there were 4 of us that spent a few days sailing around the islands and it was a lot of fun, plenty of open water sailing for me and my experience level. I don't think there is much to say about currents, but weather on Lake Superior has a nasty way of sneaking up on you REALLY fast with little warning and if you do end up going in the water the water temp (52 degrees) is cold enough where you don't have a lot of time. Lake Superior can be very unforgiving. In my opinion Lake Superior offers the best sailing you will find in the midwest with destinations such as the Apostle Islands and Isle Royale. One of the biggest advantages we have with our trailer sailers is we don't have to spend alot of time sailing to these destinations and nor do we have to pay the really high slip fees in order to enjoy these locations with our boats. I would suggest trailer to the Apostles and sail there as there really isn't anything between Duluth, and the Apostles. If you really are looking for an open water adventure then trailer your boat up to Grand Portage and do the crossing to Isle Royale. Between Isle Royale, the Flat Head and Slate Islands there is no shortage of beautiful places to take your boat.
Regards,
Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Chris Smith wrote:
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I
Not to hijack this thread, but Chad, can you elaborate on your Apostle Islands trip? I assume you're talking about Lake Superior. I am planning a trip there this summer to practice some coastal navigation and open sea sailing in my M15 and would appreciate any information on currents/weather/etc in the area. I'm thinking that I'd like to go from either Duluth or Two Harbors across the lake to the Apostles and back, if I have time.
Thanks!
Chris M15 Persephone
found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
> If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between > two > sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to > get > between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the > pieces > of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has > started > to > leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and > cracked. > > I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever > consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not > leaked. I > would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was > Bob > Eeg) > said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I > tried a > test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. > Polysulfide > won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and > you > would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal > fittings or > the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic > and > is > probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, > the > messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. > You > also > don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has > cured. > > If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding > and > glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive > factor. > Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together > by a > few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding > the > windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece. > > Howard > > > On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote: > >> I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining >> the >> attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The >> fiberglass >> guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape >> as a >> bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's >> easier >> to >> work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet. >> >> Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to >> try >> butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting >> seal. >> Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff? >> >> Gordon >> M-17 #377 "Sapphire" >> Milwaukee >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> > > > _______________________________________________ >
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
> > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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-- Chris
"Chris, FWIW, I would be more comfortable in my M15 than a McGregor in the conditions you describe. That said, I've never sailed in a McGregor, but have been sailing for 50+ years, and have had my M15's mast parallel to the water (according to the skipper of a nearby boat.) "
I am with Bill on this. I have a buddy with a McGregor Classic 26 and sailed with him a few times. (Perhaps the Mac Chris speaks of is one of those nutty X boats.) Either way, the one I have sailed on is water ballasted only (plus the board) and very tender . According to Buddy, he has flattened that boat a coupla times. For the time I have spent on one... I was not impressed. I would also be far more confident in my 17 (or a 15) than the Mac. Tim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chris Smith Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:53 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Apostle Islands Sailing Chad, Perhaps starting small with a little bit of the Apostle Islands would be good. I've been up there before in my dad's MacGregor26 and we got caught in just such a weather event: beautiful sunny day, low winds, then POOF! high winds that almost knocked us over (the only time I've seen that boat's sails hit the water) and then crazy storm. I'm afraid my M15 would go straight over and I'd be up to my eyeballs in hypothermia... I was thinking that I'd like to use the opportunity to brush up on my crossing skills for going to the bahamas or, eventually, hawaii (some guy did it in a M15!)... mebbe I'll start small in water that cold. Thanks for the advice! Chris M15 Persephone On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Chris,
I joined Gordon's trip to the Apostle Islands that he organized, there were 4 of us that spent a few days sailing around the islands and it was a lot of fun, plenty of open water sailing for me and my experience level. I don't think there is much to say about currents, but weather on Lake Superior has a nasty way of sneaking up on you REALLY fast with little warning and if you do end up going in the water the water temp (52 degrees) is cold enough where you don't have a lot of time. Lake Superior can be very unforgiving. In my opinion Lake Superior offers the best sailing you will find in the midwest with destinations such as the Apostle Islands and Isle Royale. One of the biggest advantages we have with our trailer sailers is we don't have to spend alot of time sailing to these destinations and nor do we have to pay the really high slip fees in order to enjoy these locations with our boats. I would suggest trailer to the Apostles and sail there as there really isn't anything between Duluth, and the Apostles. If you really are looking for an open water adventure then trailer your boat up to Grand Portage and do the crossing to Isle Royale. Between Isle Royale, the Flat Head and Slate Islands there is no shortage of beautiful places to take your boat.
Regards,
Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Chris Smith wrote:
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish <cparrish@fafnirnet.net> wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I
Not to hijack this thread, but Chad, can you elaborate on your Apostle Islands trip? I assume you're talking about Lake Superior. I am planning a trip there this summer to practice some coastal navigation and open sea sailing in my M15 and would appreciate any information on currents/weather/etc in the area. I'm thinking that I'd like to go from either Duluth or Two Harbors across the lake to the Apostles and back, if I have time.
Thanks!
Chris M15 Persephone
found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Excellent ideas, Chad. I will use both of them. Thanks! I was thinking of using polysulfide as opposed to polyurethane in case I ever wanted to re-bed the bow pulpit again (in many years, I would hope). The thing was a bear to get off, as it was originally installed with polyurethane caulk. Gordon On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Hi Gordon, 3M 4200 is removable and I can attest to that. 3M 5200 is the non- removable Polyurethane that you may be more familiar with. I use 4200 for just about everything as it is quite strong and I know its properties well. Here is a link that describes 4200 as having half the strength of 5200. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2004 --Chad On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Excellent ideas, Chad. I will use both of them. Thanks!
I was thinking of using polysulfide as opposed to polyurethane in case I ever wanted to re-bed the bow pulpit again (in many years, I would hope). The thing was a bear to get off, as it was originally installed with polyurethane caulk.
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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This looks great -- I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the tip, Chad! Gordon On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:43 PM, Chad Parrish wrote:
Hi Gordon,
3M 4200 is removable and I can attest to that. 3M 5200 is the non- removable Polyurethane that you may be more familiar with. I use 4200 for just about everything as it is quite strong and I know its properties well. Here is a link that describes 4200 as having half the strength of 5200. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2004
--Chad On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Excellent ideas, Chad. I will use both of them. Thanks!
I was thinking of using polysulfide as opposed to polyurethane in case I ever wanted to re-bed the bow pulpit again (in many years, I would hope). The thing was a bear to get off, as it was originally installed with polyurethane caulk.
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:10 PM, Chad Parrish wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I ran into this problem (bow pulpit stanchions not fitting flush with curved deck) last summer just before our Apostle Islands trip. I found I was able to clamp an adjustable wrench onto the base of the stanchion and bend it so it fit better. I masked each spot off really well before removing the stanchion and then used way more 3M 4200 then needed knowing there would be a bit of a gap. the excess flowed out onto the masking tape and then after it had cured tighten the bolts for the stanchion and then trim away the excess with a knife. I will probably do my hand rails before this spring.
--Chad
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Howard and Doug. You make a good case for "sticking" with the tried and true marine sealants. I've done a fair bit of hardware bedding with polysulfide and am getting cleaner, successful results (lots of masking beforehand for one thing). The main job I was considering butyl for is my bow pulpit, which has a lot of legs, none of which seem to fit completely flush with the curved deck surface. My wife will be holding the pulpit in place while I snug the nuts, and I thought a less messy sealant would also reduce any friction between the workers. :)
Gordon
On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
If butyl tape is the stuff that comes in a black layer between two sheets of brown waxed paper (sorta like the flat taffy we used to get between sheets of waxed paper) yes. I used it to bed one of the pieces of 1/4 inch Lexan I used to replace the side lights. It has started to leak after about 4 years exposure. The exposed edges look dry and cracked.
I bedded the other in black silicone (the only place I would ever consider using silicone is to bed plastic) and it has not leaked. I would have used polysulfide, but all literature (exception was Bob Eeg) said anything but silicone would eventually eat up the Lexan. I tried a test piece and after several weeks, no damage I could see. Polysulfide won't hurt the boat and at worst, it would damage the glass and you would get to replace it. Polysulfide won't hurt any metal fittings or the glass boat and would be my #1 choice to bed anything plastic and is probably what I'd use today if I had to choose. With practice, the messy factor can be curtailed. Downside is it is slow to cure. You also don't want to fully tighten the fittings until after it has cured.
If the stuff you are thinking of is the automotive glass bedding and glazing compound, I'd consider it, but there is an adhesive factor. Just had two windshields replaced. Missed seeing it go together by a few minutes, but the installer tells me the only thing holding the windshield on is that stuff. Try a test piece.
Howard
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
I'm removing most of the deck hardware on my M-17, epoxy-lining the attachment holes and rebedding everything this winter. The fiberglass guy at the place I store my boat suggested that I use butyl tape as a bedding compound instead of polysulfide caulk. He said it's easier to work with and that he hasn't experienced a leak with it yet.
Considering how messy polysulfide caulk can be, I'm tempted to try butyl tape -- but most importantly I want a good, long-lasting seal. Does anyone out there have experience with the stuff?
Gordon M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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participants (7)
-
Chad Parrish -
Chris Smith -
Doug Kelch -
Gordon Gilbert -
Howard Audsley -
Tim Diebert -
William B. Riker