Re: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12
I have to ask Thomas, being genuinely curious : have you much experience with unballasted sailboats? I bought an M 7 11 recently - thought it might make a good tender some day. Tender indeed! Being used to a little ballast below the water line, I almost flipped her at the dock the first time I took her out. But thinking back on the last time I was on an unballasted boat ( a Capri 14) I did the same thing , scraped up my knee and ended up half soaked. And before that, the 420s from a sailing class went over pretty easy as well. Maybe it's just not what we're used to? Once we got in the water, the wind was so light it was more or less imperceptible, but the little thing ghosted along well enough to get my hopes up that she'll sail all right. How did the 12 sail? I guess I should update my email signature! Dan Farrell M17 #301 M7.11 Bill Tosh <billt@eastex.net> wrote:
MY !
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Howe Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 5:08 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Cc: 'Arnold Feinberg'; Brian Denney Subject: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12
A couple of weeks ago I bought a M-12 from our yacht club, it had been neglected and I thought that it would make a great little knockabout.
Cleaned it all up, whipped all the lines, ran new running rigging where needed, rigged it in my driveway, tried to connect with the sailmaker that made the crisp new headsail, to no avail, and covered it back up. Yesterday, the wind was kind, 12-15 mph, and the sun was out. What a perfect day for a maiden sail, I thinks to myself. SO out to the lake, with the M-12 in tow. Rigged her in the parking lot, no sails bent on, and put her in the lake next to the courtesy dock. Parked, went back to the dock, and stepped aboard. Capsized immediately, and into the lake. Took my phone from my pocket, grabbed my Tilley hat before it could float away, righted the boat, and pulled myself from the water. Prudently, I took my phone back to the truck, and realized that the lake had taken another pair of sunglasses. Oh, well.
Back to the dock, cautiously and carefully climbed back aboard, careful to keep my weight centered. Bailed the copious quantity of water that had stayed aboard out, gingerly and carefully raised the sails, and worked my way to the painter. Setting myself free from the dock, I took the tiller and straightened it out, sheeted in, and capsized immediately. While contemplating the life jacket and throwable floating away, and making sure that I had a firm grip on my Tilley, I brought the sails in, swam around to the centerboard, and righted it again. Having had enough for one day, I put her back on the trailer, unrigged and hauled her back to town. Cute, but tender as a baby's behind.
Thomas Howe
[cid:image002.jpg@01D3F381.D0F14580]
Takes practice sailing a dinghy. A balancing act but we'll worth it. A M12 will plane and Jerry says a lot of fun. I sailed many a small dink dipped the gunnels a few times never rolled one over. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Thu, May 24, 2018, 4:40 PM Dan Farrell <msog@danf.us> wrote:
I have to ask Thomas, being genuinely curious : have you much experience with unballasted sailboats?
I bought an M 7 11 recently - thought it might make a good tender some day. Tender indeed! Being used to a little ballast below the water line, I almost flipped her at the dock the first time I took her out. But thinking back on the last time I was on an unballasted boat ( a Capri 14) I did the same thing , scraped up my knee and ended up half soaked. And before that, the 420s from a sailing class went over pretty easy as well. Maybe it's just not what we're used to?
Once we got in the water, the wind was so light it was more or less imperceptible, but the little thing ghosted along well enough to get my hopes up that she'll sail all right. How did the 12 sail?
I guess I should update my email signature!
Dan Farrell M17 #301 M7.11
Bill Tosh <billt@eastex.net> wrote:
MY !
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Howe Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 5:08 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Cc: 'Arnold Feinberg'; Brian Denney Subject: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12
A couple of weeks ago I bought a M-12 from our yacht club, it had been neglected and I thought that it would make a great little knockabout.
Cleaned it all up, whipped all the lines, ran new running rigging where needed, rigged it in my driveway, tried to connect with the sailmaker that made the crisp new headsail, to no avail, and covered it back up. Yesterday, the wind was kind, 12-15 mph, and the sun was out. What a perfect day for a maiden sail, I thinks to myself. SO out to the lake, with the M-12 in tow. Rigged her in the parking lot, no sails bent on, and put her in the lake next to the courtesy dock. Parked, went back to the dock, and stepped aboard. Capsized immediately, and into the lake. Took my phone from my pocket, grabbed my Tilley hat before it could float away, righted the boat, and pulled myself from the water. Prudently, I took my phone back to the truck, and realized that the lake had taken another pair of sunglasses. Oh, well.
Back to the dock, cautiously and carefully climbed back aboard, careful to keep my weight centered. Bailed the copious quantity of water that had stayed aboard out, gingerly and carefully raised the sails, and worked my way to the painter. Setting myself free from the dock, I took the tiller and straightened it out, sheeted in, and capsized immediately. While contemplating the life jacket and throwable floating away, and making sure that I had a firm grip on my Tilley, I brought the sails in, swam around to the centerboard, and righted it again. Having had enough for one day, I put her back on the trailer, unrigged and hauled her back to town. Cute, but tender as a baby's behind.
Thomas Howe
[cid:image002.jpg@01D3F381.D0F14580]
Ha, beat me to it, I was going to ask the same question... :-) If one's primary (or only) experience is a ballasted keelboat, everything without a heavy bottom is going to feel tender. I've been in an M7.11 briefly, a guy I know who has a Wharram Tiki 21 has one as a dinghy, we rowed a short distance to his boat. I didn't find the 7.11 particularly tender, as "tenders" go. But, I have the opposite situation. Mostly sailed dingies & small unballasted centerboard or daggerboard boats. Constantly moving my weight around to keep them relatively flat if there's more than a mild breeze. Hiking out to da max in strong winds. So I still get edgy every time my M17 heels more than a certain amount or a strong gust hits...I slack the mainsheet or head up a bit. I'm learning that I can just hold her steady and all will be well, but it's a pretty conditioned reflex to un-learn! cheers, John On 05/24/2018 04:16 PM, Dan Farrell wrote:
I have to ask Thomas, being genuinely curious : have you much experience with unballasted sailboats?
I bought an M 7 11 recently - thought it might make a good tender some day. Tender indeed! Being used to a little ballast below the water line, I almost flipped her at the dock the first time I took her out. But thinking back on the last time I was on an unballasted boat ( a Capri 14) I did the same thing , scraped up my knee and ended up half soaked. And before that, the 420s from a sailing class went over pretty easy as well. Maybe it's just not what we're used to?
Once we got in the water, the wind was so light it was more or less imperceptible, but the little thing ghosted along well enough to get my hopes up that she'll sail all right. How did the 12 sail?
I guess I should update my email signature!
Dan Farrell M17 #301 M7.11
Bill Tosh <billt@eastex.net> wrote:
MY !
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Howe Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 5:08 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Cc: 'Arnold Feinberg'; Brian Denney Subject: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12
A couple of weeks ago I bought a M-12 from our yacht club, it had been neglected and I thought that it would make a great little knockabout.
Cleaned it all up, whipped all the lines, ran new running rigging where needed, rigged it in my driveway, tried to connect with the sailmaker that made the crisp new headsail, to no avail, and covered it back up. Yesterday, the wind was kind, 12-15 mph, and the sun was out. What a perfect day for a maiden sail, I thinks to myself. SO out to the lake, with the M-12 in tow. Rigged her in the parking lot, no sails bent on, and put her in the lake next to the courtesy dock. Parked, went back to the dock, and stepped aboard. Capsized immediately, and into the lake. Took my phone from my pocket, grabbed my Tilley hat before it could float away, righted the boat, and pulled myself from the water. Prudently, I took my phone back to the truck, and realized that the lake had taken another pair of sunglasses. Oh, well.
Back to the dock, cautiously and carefully climbed back aboard, careful to keep my weight centered. Bailed the copious quantity of water that had stayed aboard out, gingerly and carefully raised the sails, and worked my way to the painter. Setting myself free from the dock, I took the tiller and straightened it out, sheeted in, and capsized immediately. While contemplating the life jacket and throwable floating away, and making sure that I had a firm grip on my Tilley, I brought the sails in, swam around to the centerboard, and righted it again. Having had enough for one day, I put her back on the trailer, unrigged and hauled her back to town. Cute, but tender as a baby's behind.
Thomas Howe
[cid:image002.jpg@01D3F381.D0F14580]
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I’m with you John. My early years of sailing started with dunks. Sailing bath tubs actually! They are tender and you have to constantly shift your weight if you want to stay dry. One time I was sailing in a lake and got caught up watching something other then the sail and ended up wet when the boom and I shared the port side. Live and learn. As I sailed my M15 I was constantly shifting my weight to keep her flat. She doesn’t like that much. In time you learn to trust the boat and relax. Oh, and stay dry. ~Skip <Sent from my iPhone>
On May 24, 2018, at 9:14 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Ha, beat me to it, I was going to ask the same question... :-) If one's primary (or only) experience is a ballasted keelboat, everything without a heavy bottom is going to feel tender.
I've been in an M7.11 briefly, a guy I know who has a Wharram Tiki 21 has one as a dinghy, we rowed a short distance to his boat. I didn't find the 7.11 particularly tender, as "tenders" go.
But, I have the opposite situation. Mostly sailed dingies & small unballasted centerboard or daggerboard boats. Constantly moving my weight around to keep them relatively flat if there's more than a mild breeze. Hiking out to da max in strong winds.
So I still get edgy every time my M17 heels more than a certain amount or a strong gust hits...I slack the mainsheet or head up a bit. I'm learning that I can just hold her steady and all will be well, but it's a pretty conditioned reflex to un-learn!
cheers, John
On 05/24/2018 04:16 PM, Dan Farrell wrote: I have to ask Thomas, being genuinely curious : have you much experience with unballasted sailboats? I bought an M 7 11 recently - thought it might make a good tender some day. Tender indeed! Being used to a little ballast below the water line, I almost flipped her at the dock the first time I took her out. But thinking back on the last time I was on an unballasted boat ( a Capri 14) I did the same thing , scraped up my knee and ended up half soaked. And before that, the 420s from a sailing class went over pretty easy as well. Maybe it's just not what we're used to? Once we got in the water, the wind was so light it was more or less imperceptible, but the little thing ghosted along well enough to get my hopes up that she'll sail all right. How did the 12 sail? I guess I should update my email signature! Dan Farrell M17 #301 M7.11 Bill Tosh <billt@eastex.net> wrote:
MY !
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Howe Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 5:08 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Cc: 'Arnold Feinberg'; Brian Denney Subject: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12
A couple of weeks ago I bought a M-12 from our yacht club, it had been neglected and I thought that it would make a great little knockabout.
Cleaned it all up, whipped all the lines, ran new running rigging where needed, rigged it in my driveway, tried to connect with the sailmaker that made the crisp new headsail, to no avail, and covered it back up. Yesterday, the wind was kind, 12-15 mph, and the sun was out. What a perfect day for a maiden sail, I thinks to myself. SO out to the lake, with the M-12 in tow. Rigged her in the parking lot, no sails bent on, and put her in the lake next to the courtesy dock. Parked, went back to the dock, and stepped aboard. Capsized immediately, and into the lake. Took my phone from my pocket, grabbed my Tilley hat before it could float away, righted the boat, and pulled myself from the water. Prudently, I took my phone back to the truck, and realized that the lake had taken another pair of sunglasses. Oh, well.
Back to the dock, cautiously and carefully climbed back aboard, careful to keep my weight centered. Bailed the copious quantity of water that had stayed aboard out, gingerly and carefully raised the sails, and worked my way to the painter. Setting myself free from the dock, I took the tiller and straightened it out, sheeted in, and capsized immediately. While contemplating the life jacket and throwable floating away, and making sure that I had a firm grip on my Tilley, I brought the sails in, swam around to the centerboard, and righted it again. Having had enough for one day, I put her back on the trailer, unrigged and hauled her back to town. Cute, but tender as a baby's behind.
Thomas Howe
[cid:image002.jpg@01D3F381.D0F14580]
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
The right question! It has been 50 some years since I was aboard and unballested boat. I'll need to learn new tricks, I guess. Real Estate questions? Here's Howe. On May 24, 2018 6:40 PM, Dan Farrell <msog@danf.us> wrote: I have to ask Thomas, being genuinely curious : have you much experience with unballasted sailboats? I bought an M 7 11 recently - thought it might make a good tender some day. Tender indeed! Being used to a little ballast below the water line, I almost flipped her at the dock the first time I took her out. But thinking back on the last time I was on an unballasted boat ( a Capri 14) I did the same thing , scraped up my knee and ended up half soaked. And before that, the 420s from a sailing class went over pretty easy as well. Maybe it's just not what we're used to? Once we got in the water, the wind was so light it was more or less imperceptible, but the little thing ghosted along well enough to get my hopes up that she'll sail all right. How did the 12 sail? I guess I should update my email signature! Dan Farrell M17 #301 M7.11 Bill Tosh <billt@eastex.net> wrote:
MY !
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Howe Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 5:08 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Cc: 'Arnold Feinberg'; Brian Denney Subject: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12
A couple of weeks ago I bought a M-12 from our yacht club, it had been neglected and I thought that it would make a great little knockabout.
Cleaned it all up, whipped all the lines, ran new running rigging where needed, rigged it in my driveway, tried to connect with the sailmaker that made the crisp new headsail, to no avail, and covered it back up. Yesterday, the wind was kind, 12-15 mph, and the sun was out. What a perfect day for a maiden sail, I thinks to myself. SO out to the lake, with the M-12 in tow. Rigged her in the parking lot, no sails bent on, and put her in the lake next to the courtesy dock. Parked, went back to the dock, and stepped aboard. Capsized immediately, and into the lake. Took my phone from my pocket, grabbed my Tilley hat before it could float away, righted the boat, and pulled myself from the water. Prudently, I took my phone back to the truck, and realized that the lake had taken another pair of sunglasses. Oh, well.
Back to the dock, cautiously and carefully climbed back aboard, careful to keep my weight centered. Bailed the copious quantity of water that had stayed aboard out, gingerly and carefully raised the sails, and worked my way to the painter. Setting myself free from the dock, I took the tiller and straightened it out, sheeted in, and capsized immediately. While contemplating the life jacket and throwable floating away, and making sure that I had a firm grip on my Tilley, I brought the sails in, swam around to the centerboard, and righted it again. Having had enough for one day, I put her back on the trailer, unrigged and hauled her back to town. Cute, but tender as a baby's behind.
Thomas Howe
[cid:image002.jpg@01D3F381.D0F14580]
More like re-learn old tricks? My first attempt at sailing was on a Sunfish and on my first attempt, I capsized that thing about 4 or 5 times in less than an hour before figuring out what to do to keep her upright. I was lucky the water was warm and I was dressed to go swimming. The only Monty dink I’ve been in was the small pram…… http://www.montgomeryboats.com/mont6.php <http://www.montgomeryboats.com/mont6.php> I’m about 6’ and 200 pounds and I had a terrible time just getting into it without going for a swim. About like stepping onto a bottle cap……awfully jumpy. But eventually learned you had to step directly in the middle of it to calm it down. After 3 or 4 tries, it got easier. Get in the middle, get down, stay low. The dink I tow behind Mr. Howe’s previous M17 is a 10’ Spindrift. About the same as an M10 or M12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n_n_z77Y-A <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n_n_z77Y-A> It is on it’s third and final iteration of a sail plan………a lug sail. Have had it out in wind about like you describe and had her up on plane. Fun stuff! Have yet to capsize her, but one certainly could if you got careless.
On May 25, 2018, at 6:45 AM, Thomas Howe <Thomas@thomashoweonline.com> wrote:
The right question! It has been 50 some years since I was aboard and unballested boat. I'll need to learn new tricks, I guess.
Real Estate questions? Here's Howe.
On May 24, 2018 6:40 PM, Dan Farrell <msog@danf.us> wrote: I have to ask Thomas, being genuinely curious : have you much experience with unballasted sailboats?
I bought an M 7 11 recently - thought it might make a good tender some day. Tender indeed! Being used to a little ballast below the water line, I almost flipped her at the dock the first time I took her out. But thinking back on the last time I was on an unballasted boat ( a Capri 14) I did the same thing , scraped up my knee and ended up half soaked. And before that, the 420s from a sailing class went over pretty easy as well. Maybe it's just not what we're used to?
Once we got in the water, the wind was so light it was more or less imperceptible, but the little thing ghosted along well enough to get my hopes up that she'll sail all right. How did the 12 sail?
I guess I should update my email signature!
Dan Farrell M17 #301 M7.11
Bill Tosh <billt@eastex.net> wrote:
MY !
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Howe Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 5:08 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Cc: 'Arnold Feinberg'; Brian Denney Subject: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12
A couple of weeks ago I bought a M-12 from our yacht club, it had been neglected and I thought that it would make a great little knockabout.
Cleaned it all up, whipped all the lines, ran new running rigging where needed, rigged it in my driveway, tried to connect with the sailmaker that made the crisp new headsail, to no avail, and covered it back up. Yesterday, the wind was kind, 12-15 mph, and the sun was out. What a perfect day for a maiden sail, I thinks to myself. SO out to the lake, with the M-12 in tow. Rigged her in the parking lot, no sails bent on, and put her in the lake next to the courtesy dock. Parked, went back to the dock, and stepped aboard. Capsized immediately, and into the lake. Took my phone from my pocket, grabbed my Tilley hat before it could float away, righted the boat, and pulled myself from the water. Prudently, I took my phone back to the truck, and realized that the lake had taken another pair of sunglasses. Oh, well.
Back to the dock, cautiously and carefully climbed back aboard, careful to keep my weight centered. Bailed the copious quantity of water that had stayed aboard out, gingerly and carefully raised the sails, and worked my way to the painter. Setting myself free from the dock, I took the tiller and straightened it out, sheeted in, and capsized immediately. While contemplating the life jacket and throwable floating away, and making sure that I had a firm grip on my Tilley, I brought the sails in, swam around to the centerboard, and righted it again. Having had enough for one day, I put her back on the trailer, unrigged and hauled her back to town. Cute, but tender as a baby's behind.
Thomas Howe
[cid:image002.jpg@01D3F381.D0F14580]
participants (6)
-
Dan Farrell -
Dave Scobie -
Howard Audsley -
John Schinnerer -
Thomas Howe -
William Campion