Re the mainsheet for not-so-strong people, I found that I needed a 5 to 1 setup to be able to sheet the main in on the windiest days. But I am an older woman who often single-handed my M-17. Judy On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. traveler and main sheet (Gerry Lempicki) 2. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: traveler and main sheet (Gerry Lempicki) 6. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) 7. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) 8. Re: traveler and main sheet (Gerry Lempicki) 9. Re: traveler and main sheet (Henry Rodriguez)

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Message: 1 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:29 +0000 (UTC) From: Gerry Lempicki <ka1stz@yahoo.com> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: traveler and main sheet Message-ID: <1101264595.3123610.1563842309984@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

OK, as I learn more I see the benefit of improving the traveler to a ball bearing unit that is easily adjustable.? Mine must be original as it has detents to pin it in place, and doesn't adjust or slide easily.? I've read Jerry's post about the ball bearing traveler, and I want to make sure I understand before I buy parts or drill holes.? It sounds like one end of the control line anchors to a strap eye mounted on a side of the cockpit, goes around a sheave on the car, back through a Harken H 83 block (what is this?? I can't find anything with this H 83 designation.? Some sort of vertical mounted block?), to the v-cleat mounted above, then leave some slack control line, and head to the other side by a v-cleat, through Harken block, around sheave on car and back to a strap eye.? Is that correct?? Any corrections to this or details on the block would be appreciated.? I checked the photosite, but didn't see anything showing this. Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet.? She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads.? And I admit it's got some good force on it.? In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching.? Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration?? A split system?? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too.? I want to set this up so Robin can operate helm or headsail/jib comfortably.Thanks!? (again) LOLGerry

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Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:12:46 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: traveler and main sheet Message-ID: <c0b9a87d-008f-1022-349a-7a279a473264@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Re this part:

On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: ...

...

Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet.? She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads.? And I admit it's got some good force on it.? In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching.? Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration?? A split system?? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too....

My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you posted.

It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long).

I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both traveler and boom.

Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only needed to buy a new boom block.

The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine.

Description...I may have some pics, will take a look...

OLD Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat.

NEW Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat.

This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1.

Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original location. Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount.

cheers, John

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:57:44 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: traveler and main sheet Message-ID: <b2e876f2-99d1-7776-8824-3f285738bc89@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Here's a pic of my current setup, 4-part a.k.a 4:1, main sheet. If you view full size you ought to be able to see the detail of the traveler block with becket, and 2-sheave boom block.

In my prior setup, the becket was on the boom block and boom block had only one sheave. Presumably how yours is now.

It's nearly side-on so you can see the approximate boom bail placement as well. Sheet has a very slight rearward angle. Bail is a bit aft (maybe 6", I'd have to go measure) of where it was when I got the boat (but there were holes back in that vicinity so I guessed it had been moved forward for some reason).

cheers, John

On 7/22/19 6:12 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:

...

Re this part:

On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: ...

...

Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet.? She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads.? And I admit it's got some good force on it.? In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching.? Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration?? A split system?? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too....

My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you posted.

It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long).

I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both traveler and boom.

Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only needed to buy a new boom block.

The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine.

Description...I may have some pics, will take a look...

OLD Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat.

NEW Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat.

This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1.

Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original location. Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount.

cheers, John

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com