I had a nice conversation with Harry at EPsails. I saw on a blog that the M-15 has 2 different mast heights possible. the MSOG specs call for 16.83' for the p. which I read fits ok on the 19'6" mast. We have the 19'2" mast which is supposed to be the other common length mast. I decided to shorten the p. length by 4" because I do not want the boom hitting me in the head. This should come close to the size of main we have now. Harry was excellent to work with and EPsails are made in the U.S.A. The sail is a Christmas present from my daughter so I will not know how this works out until then. Jim & Diane Une Petite Sialia M-15, #414 ________________________________ From: "montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 12:50 PM Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 129, Issue 1 ----- Forwarded Message ----- Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sail Area M15 (GILASAILR@aol.com) 2. Re: Sail Area M15 (W David Scobie) 3. Re: Sail Area M15 (Daniel Rich) 4. Re: standard reefing on an M15 (Jim Dahlquist) 5. Re: Sail Area M15 (casioqv@usermail.com) 6. Re: Sail Area M15 (George Iemmolo) 7. Re: Sail Area M15 (casioqv@usermail.com) 8. Re: Sail Area M15 (George Iemmolo) 9. Re: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve (Jim Dahlquist) 10. Re: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve (Hughston, Larry@DGS) 11. depth for launching (Tom Jenkins) 12. Re: depth for launching (Randy Graves) 13. Re: depth for launching (George R. Iemmolo) 14. Re: depth for launching (Tom Smith) 15. Re: depth for launching (Tom Jenkins) 16. Re: depth for launching (Tom Jenkins) 17. Re: depth for launching (Tom Jenkins) About $700. and 1/4 knot in boatspeed - {;>) Just kidding - I don't think there are many 'fathead M-15' mainsails on standard rigs to provide a realistic comparison - BUT you would have: a new sail (probably faster) 'Fashion forward' style points (actually more than that) your biggest gains would be on offwind/downwind legs - - go with the used main and see what develops from there. then go for the bitchin wahoo carbon load path model! (just kiddin' again) Sometimes these "modifications" backfire - folks seem to think a modified "part/rig/sail" MUST make you go faster or higher when all they really are is 'different'. Some are even a disadvantage - but the perception is 'hot rod' - develop skills then develop machinery is a good path. Time in the boat is worth more than almost anything (except new good sails ;>) Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO _www.wrinkleboat.webs.com_ (http://www.wrinkleboat.webs.com/) In a message dated 10/24/2013 1:28:57 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, griemmolo2@gmail.com writes: Wrinkle Boat Mates Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?) Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23. George: the M15 isn't underpowered. a larger main can have advantage in light wind, but you need to reef earlier. Dan's M15 is a 'one-off' so he can better speak to the sail area differences. you don't want to go 'to big' or you have a sail with a center of effort in the incorrect location. another consideration is a larger genoa for light wind. this would involve, at minimum, adding a block on the toe rail for the changed sheeting angle (a block on a sliding track would be better). i wonder if your headsail is the same size as a stock M15? your standing rig is different so it may be smaller (a guess, i have no idea). :: Dave Scobie -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 10/24/13, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote: Wrinkle Boat Mates Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?) Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23. Sadly, still haven't heard anything from Judy B. Nonetheless, I am bullish that she will get the sails to me soon. Once I have them, and everything is working correctly, I will arrange getting my old set to you. Daniel
On Oct 24, 2013, at 1:28 PM, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrinkle Boat Mates
Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?)
Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23.
Hi Dave, Thanks for the reply. I hope this is the right way to reply back using xmission. I confess that I never learned enough of the sailboat terminology that you are using. But here is an old photo of my mainsail where I looked up and added the terms for the six main parts of the sail. I think I really only knew two for sure. I also added numbers for the reefing eylets. Last winter I had slides added to the Luff, and now I see why I need them on the foot as well, for convenient reefing. I am attaching the mainsail and other photos of numbered or lettered items presently unused & unknown to me. Maybe some are for a spinnaker which I don't envision for myself. The items marked A,E & F are temporarily used by me for the topping lift that I added. The link is to a dropbox folder which I think is supposed to work https://www.dropbox.com/s/2phjkr3jsgo9594/MainSail-1.JPG https://www.dropbox.com/s/0v9o21vnmkoeluu/Unused-ABCDEF-Port.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/ia8caa0mtlmtr5b/Unused-GHIJ-Port.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/65djp3uix61ssk7/Unused-KL-Mast.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwht84ws2fom1p3/Unused-M-Starboard.jpg Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL jim@dhlqst.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 12:27 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jim:
concerning your boom and reefing.
not sure exactly what you are describing for the reef tack line at the mast. there should be a strap-eye on the port side of the mast. dead-end the reef's tack line on the strap-eye. run the line through the reef grommet. there should be a clam-cleat on the starboard side of the mast (about opposite of the strap-eye). run the line through the clam-cleat.
on the boom the eye at the end, noted as #1, is for the outhaul .. but i recommend adding some hardware to make it work more effectively (can cover this later).
the cheek block, #3, and the clam-cleat, #4, are for the reef's clew grommet. the reef's clew line is dead-ended on the strap eye that is located oppose the cheek block (port side of boom). run line through the reef's clew grommet, thru the cheek bock and then the clam-cleat.
to reef drop main so the tack grommet is at the location the gooseneck rides. pull the clew line tight. pull the tack line tight. raise the main to tighten the luff. now you can clean up the reef, though not required, using the cringle lines (if you have a loose-foot main tie sail to itself, _not_ to the boom). not including 'cleaning up' with the cringle lines reefing should take <30 seconds.
if needed let me know if you need photos.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred
-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10/23/13, Jim Dahlquist <jimdahlquist@gmail.com> wrote:
One more subject. Although this is my 5th sailboat (bought last fall), I have never reefed a mainsail, although get the general idea, and I have tried it once on my M15, and it went well, and I will be wanting to do it more. So a few questions: 1. The reefing rope nearest the mast could go in the little pivot, swivel, stretch area to avoid rubbing on the thick mainsail bunched in that area. I avoided doing this. Am I right? 2. The following is a photo of my boom. I am using the side pulley and cleat for my outhaul. Is that what they are for? https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0fx4yn52ixrhd1/BoatBoom2.jpg 3. Do I need more hardware on my boom for reefing quickly and safely? 4. Is there a good video or photo or other reference for reefing the M15?
Thanks,
Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL. jim@dhlqst.com
I am planning to soon order a set of sails for my newly purchased M15... and have been thinking I'd order a large nylon drifter as a light air solution. Elliott / Pattison quoted me a surprisingly affordable price, but I haven't shopped around at all. Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "MONTGOMERY LIST" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:27:36 PM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Area M15 Wrinkle Boat Mates Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?) Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23. Dave My standing rigging is per specs I believe you pointed me to on MSOG. My Main is 2' short that is why I am buying used sails to spec from Daniel. Tyler I would appreciate any info on a light air sail like a Drifter and the sail makers site. I was wondering if a Asymmetrical Sail for an M15 has been spec'd out. Daniel no problem as I am not looking to splash till May 20014 George Merry Helen M15 #602 On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:22 PM, <GILASAILR@aol.com> wrote:
About $700. and 1/4 knot in boatspeed - {;>)
Just kidding - I don't think there are many 'fathead M-15' mainsails on standard rigs to provide a realistic comparison - BUT you would have: a new sail (probably faster) 'Fashion forward' style points (actually more than that) your biggest gains would be on offwind/downwind legs - - go with the used main and see what develops from there. then go for the bitchin wahoo carbon load path model! (just kiddin' again)
Sometimes these "modifications" backfire - folks seem to think a modified "part/rig/sail" MUST make you go faster or higher when all they really are is 'different'. Some are even a disadvantage - but the perception is 'hot rod' - develop skills then develop machinery is a good path.
Time in the boat is worth more than almost anything (except new good sails ;>)
Have Fun, Go Sailing.
GO
_www.wrinkleboat.webs.com_ (http://www.wrinkleboat.webs.com/)
In a message dated 10/24/2013 1:28:57 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, griemmolo2@gmail.com writes:
Wrinkle Boat Mates
Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?)
Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23.
George, Elliott / Pattison also quoted a good price for an M15 asymmetrical spinnaker, so I assume they have specs for one. I'm planning to go with the drifter instead because it should sail a bit closer to the wind. Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:10:46 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Area M15 Dave My standing rigging is per specs I believe you pointed me to on MSOG. My Main is 2' short that is why I am buying used sails to spec from Daniel. Tyler I would appreciate any info on a light air sail like a Drifter and the sail makers site. I was wondering if a Asymmetrical Sail for an M15 has been spec'd out. Daniel no problem as I am not looking to splash till May 20014 George Merry Helen M15 #602 Tyler is it possible for you to pass on any information on the quotes you received? George On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:48 PM, <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
George,
Elliott / Pattison also quoted a good price for an M15 asymmetrical spinnaker, so I assume they have specs for one. I'm planning to go with the drifter instead because it should sail a bit closer to the wind.
Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:10:46 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Area M15
Dave
My standing rigging is per specs I believe you pointed me to on MSOG. My Main is 2' short that is why I am buying used sails to spec from Daniel.
Tyler
I would appreciate any info on a light air sail like a Drifter and the sail makers site. I was wondering if a Asymmetrical Sail for an M15 has been spec'd out.
Daniel
no problem as I am not looking to splash till May 20014
George Merry Helen M15 #602
Hi Larry, I can help you with the parts, but the process was a considerable stress for me for several months, risking possible damage to my boat, etc. I am an electronic engineer, and not very familiar with fiberglass and epoxy boat construction or techniques. In fact I epoxied about a square foot of my driveway in the process. The valve and the rope tube(not a CB lifter) are made from parts McMaster Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com/) and the epoxy and fiberglass come from West Marine. The valve is made from 3 sizes of concentric polyarbonate tubing, and a floating plastic ball. The rope tube is required because the CB rope comes through the same drain hole, and to prevent water from coming out around the rope the tube is used to set a higher level and smaller flow area for water to enter the cockpit. I also used a special wooden guide for the Dremel grinding tool to create room for the new drain tube. And I had to grind and shape a thin polycarb sheet to be able to pour epoxy from the cockpit without removing the CB. My cockpit now has a considerably smaller drain opening and therefore longer time to fully drain a full cockpit. Here is a video showing the check valve in a test: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eqh92lf6pyuigii/CheckValveTest.MOV Considering the effort in putting all of the details together, and not really knowing that my design or methods are of commercial quality and reliability, I a degree of concern as to what sort of responsibility I may incur for end results. Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL jim@dhlqst.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Hughston, Larry@DGS < Larry.Hughston@dgs.ca.gov> wrote:
Just looked at the images of you center M-15 drain. Good setup. I have my drain in the original "Jerry Montgomery" arrangement but I added stainless steel Chore Boy scrubbing pads as strainers / filters on either side of the drain under the teak cover. Seems to work well but I would like to know how to fit the stainless steel CB lifter. Good idea....Larry in old 189 M-15 Where can I get a check valve too?
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dahlquist Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:06 PM To: Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve
I finally got an end of season Lake Michigan checkout and verification of my new cockpit check valve. It worked great. My son visiting from Charlotte was with me so only two aboard for this test. There was a nice wind, and average waves, and still warm enough to forget any jackets or long sleeves. No water came in, and we could hear a slight clicking as the valve opened and closed with the waves. Not a drop in the cockpit, after last year with 3 in the boat,the cold water kept coming in and running back in the cockpit making cold feet. I cut that short. The two people with me were relatives with no sailing knowledge.
The valve has a 3/4 inch floating ball, and it is accessible by pulling out the poly carbonate valve seat cylinder which is is just a friction fit. And because I hadn't yet gotten around to making a small wireform spacer to prevent it; the wave action after a few hours sailing and motoring, the ball and seal worked their way out and let lots of water in. The parts were not lost however, because there is a stainless perf metal filter for keeping leaves and debris out of the drain. There is also an epoxied stainless tube over the centerboard rope. I am delighted at how well this worked and am looking forward to more testing opportunities. It is too late for sailing in Chicago this year.
I am wondering about the potential for towing the boat down to the keys in hopes of finding good sailing weather and places to explore, and safe harbor at night. I don't think any of my family members could make it and so I would need to find someone to help me crew, or someone with a boat to sail with.
Here are a couple photos of my check valve setup:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8igwhsdyit5cyg/ChkValveFail.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/2oflc7ff4kaoykn/ChkValveParts.jpg
The second link shows the essential valve parts(Valve tube, Rope tube, Perforated stainlessf filter, new wireform spacer setting below the two tubes, Teak cover board with forward lock pins and locking brass knob.
One more subject. Although this is my 5th sailboat (bought last fall), I have never reefed a mainsail, although get the general idea, and I have tried it once on my M15, and it went well, and I will be wanting to do it more. So a few questions: 1. The reefing rope nearest the mast could go in the little pivot, swivel, stretch area to avoid rubbing on the thick mainsail bunched in that area. I avoided doing this. Am I right? 2. The following is a photo of my boom. I am using the side pulley and cleat for my outhaul. Is that what they are for? https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0fx4yn52ixrhd1/BoatBoom2.jpg 3. Do I need more hardware on my boom for reefing quickly and safely? 4. Is there a good video or photo or other reference for reefing the M15?
Thanks,
Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL. jim@dhlqst.com
Good video....thanks. Let me know how the real life on the water and wind work out...Larry H. with old 189 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dahlquist Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve Hi Larry, I can help you with the parts, but the process was a considerable stress for me for several months, risking possible damage to my boat, etc. I am an electronic engineer, and not very familiar with fiberglass and epoxy boat construction or techniques. In fact I epoxied about a square foot of my driveway in the process. The valve and the rope tube(not a CB lifter) are made from parts McMaster Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com/) and the epoxy and fiberglass come from West Marine. The valve is made from 3 sizes of concentric polyarbonate tubing, and a floating plastic ball. The rope tube is required because the CB rope comes through the same drain hole, and to prevent water from coming out around the rope the tube is used to set a higher level and smaller flow area for water to enter the cockpit. I also used a special wooden guide for the Dremel grinding tool to create room for the new drain tube. And I had to grind and shape a thin polycarb sheet to be able to pour epoxy from the cockpit without removing the CB. My cockpit now has a considerably smaller drain opening and therefore longer time to fully drain a full cockpit. Here is a video showing the check valve in a test: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eqh92lf6pyuigii/CheckValveTest.MOV Considering the effort in putting all of the details together, and not really knowing that my design or methods are of commercial quality and reliability, I a degree of concern as to what sort of responsibility I may incur for end results. Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL jim@dhlqst.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Hughston, Larry@DGS < Larry.Hughston@dgs.ca.gov> wrote:
Just looked at the images of you center M-15 drain. Good setup. I have my drain in the original "Jerry Montgomery" arrangement but I added stainless steel Chore Boy scrubbing pads as strainers / filters on either side of the drain under the teak cover. Seems to work well but I would like to know how to fit the stainless steel CB lifter. Good idea....Larry in old 189 M-15 Where can I get a check valve too?
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dahlquist Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:06 PM To: Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve
I finally got an end of season Lake Michigan checkout and verification of my new cockpit check valve. It worked great. My son visiting from Charlotte was with me so only two aboard for this test. There was a nice wind, and average waves, and still warm enough to forget any jackets or long sleeves. No water came in, and we could hear a slight clicking as the valve opened and closed with the waves. Not a drop in the cockpit, after last year with 3 in the boat,the cold water kept coming in and running back in the cockpit making cold feet. I cut that short. The two people with me were relatives with no sailing knowledge.
The valve has a 3/4 inch floating ball, and it is accessible by pulling out the poly carbonate valve seat cylinder which is is just a friction fit. And because I hadn't yet gotten around to making a small wireform spacer to prevent it; the wave action after a few hours sailing and motoring, the ball and seal worked their way out and let lots of water in. The parts were not lost however, because there is a stainless perf metal filter for keeping leaves and debris out of the drain. There is also an epoxied stainless tube over the centerboard rope. I am delighted at how well this worked and am looking forward to more testing opportunities. It is too late for sailing in Chicago this year.
I am wondering about the potential for towing the boat down to the keys in hopes of finding good sailing weather and places to explore, and safe harbor at night. I don't think any of my family members could make it and so I would need to find someone to help me crew, or someone with a boat to sail with.
Here are a couple photos of my check valve setup:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8igwhsdyit5cyg/ChkValveFail.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/2oflc7ff4kaoykn/ChkValveParts.jpg
The second link shows the essential valve parts(Valve tube, Rope tube, Perforated stainlessf filter, new wireform spacer setting below the two tubes, Teak cover board with forward lock pins and locking brass knob.
One more subject. Although this is my 5th sailboat (bought last fall), I have never reefed a mainsail, although get the general idea, and I have tried it once on my M15, and it went well, and I will be wanting to do it more. So a few questions: 1. The reefing rope nearest the mast could go in the little pivot, swivel, stretch area to avoid rubbing on the thick mainsail bunched in that area. I avoided doing this. Am I right? 2. The following is a photo of my boom. I am using the side pulley and cleat for my outhaul. Is that what they are for? https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0fx4yn52ixrhd1/BoatBoom2.jpg 3. Do I need more hardware on my boom for reefing quickly and safely? 4. Is there a good video or photo or other reference for reefing the M15?
Thanks,
Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL. jim@dhlqst.com
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626 Hi Tom, We brought our M17 (1988) home last weekend, as the lake level is dropping for the winter, and I noted that the top of the trailer fenders were under the water when I had enough float to get the boat on/off the trailer. The top of our fenders is roughly 34 inches (1988 Trailrite trailer with drop-down axle & 15 inch wheels). The top of our fenders is roughly 6 inches below the bottom of the waterline stripe. Taking all this into account I recall that the stern of our 17 is floating and we can push her off the trailer our use the wench to crank her up onto it. I know your setup is different but maybe this will help. Randy Graves On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
Tom Do you have an extendable tongue (approx 6')? If not you can drop the trailer tongue and push the trailer in until the boat floats of. Don't forget to attach a line to the trailer before doing that, don't ask how I know about that:-). George M15 #602 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:14 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: depth for launching Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626 I love using the wench to crank her up... On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Randy Graves <rkgraves@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
We brought our M17 (1988) home last weekend, as the lake level is dropping for the winter, and I noted that the top of the trailer fenders were under the water when I had enough float to get the boat on/off the trailer. The top of our fenders is roughly 34 inches (1988 Trailrite trailer with drop-down axle & 15 inch wheels). The top of our fenders is roughly 6 inches below the bottom of the waterline stripe. Taking all this into account I recall that the stern of our 17 is floating and we can push her off the trailer our use the wench to crank her up onto it. I know your setup is different but maybe this will help.
Randy Graves
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
Regrettably, my wench won't do no crankin'. On Nov 1, 2013, at 10:02 AM, Tom Smith wrote:
I love using the wench to crank her up...
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Randy Graves <rkgraves@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
We brought our M17 (1988) home last weekend, as the lake level is dropping for the winter, and I noted that the top of the trailer fenders were under the water when I had enough float to get the boat on/off the trailer. The top of our fenders is roughly 34 inches (1988 Trailrite trailer with drop-down axle & 15 inch wheels). The top of our fenders is roughly 6 inches below the bottom of the waterline stripe. Taking all this into account I recall that the stern of our 17 is floating and we can push her off the trailer our use the wench to crank her up onto it. I know your setup is different but maybe this will help.
Randy Graves
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
Randy, Thanks for the input. I don't know if there are differences in how low the boat rides on different trailers, but my fenders are 30" off the road, and I too have to submerge them to float the boat. Unfortunately, I never measured how far. I have sturdy PVC uprights to keep the boat centered while retrieving in a crosswind, and a smart person would have put Sharpie marks on said uprights so the trailer could be pre-positioned to just the right depth. Anyway, I'm now guessing at least 36" water depth at the axles, and my heavy tub (four bronze portlights, battery, junk) might want more. Four feet sounds like overkill, but I'm still not 100% sure with my trailer. Tom Jenkins On Nov 1, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Randy Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
We brought our M17 (1988) home last weekend, as the lake level is dropping for the winter, and I noted that the top of the trailer fenders were under the water when I had enough float to get the boat on/off the trailer. The top of our fenders is roughly 34 inches (1988 Trailrite trailer with drop-down axle & 15 inch wheels). The top of our fenders is roughly 6 inches below the bottom of the waterline stripe. Taking all this into account I recall that the stern of our 17 is floating and we can push her off the trailer our use the wench to crank her up onto it. I know your setup is different but maybe this will help.
Randy Graves
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
George, First off, I won't ask you how you know about the line. Secondly, the problem with our ramps at really low water is that they can end before the water is deep enough to float a sailboat. Often wave action erodes the sediments where the concrete ends, making a nasty cliff that can snag the trailer. As an example, Goggle Earth the ramp at Temple Bar on Lake Mead. The ramp is hundreds of yards long, but last time I was there the trailer wheels on powerboats still hit the gravel bottom. I do have a trailer extension, and fortunately I have not found a ramp with a low enough angle that I need to unhitch the beast, but you never know. Tom Jenkins On Nov 1, 2013, at 9:30 AM, George R. Iemmolo wrote:
Tom
Do you have an extendable tongue (approx 6')? If not you can drop the trailer tongue and push the trailer in until the boat floats of. Don't forget to attach a line to the trailer before doing that, don't ask how I know about that:-).
George M15 #602
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:14 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: depth for launching
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
_______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
That's great to know, I consider a boom that hits your head while seated a major safety hazard. Have you heard if there's any specific pattern to the mast lengths (different lengths in different years, etc.)? Tyler M15 ----- Original Message ----- From: jeo28@frontier.com To: "montgomery boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 11:53:26 AM Subject: M_Boats: m-15 sail I had a nice conversation with Harry at EPsails. I saw on a blog that the M-15 has 2 different mast heights possible. the MSOG specs call for 16.83' for the p. which I read fits ok on the 19'6" mast. We have the 19'2" mast which is supposed to be the other common length mast. I decided to shorten the p. length by 4" because I do not want the boom hitting me in the head. This should come close to the size of main we have now. Harry was excellent to work with and EPsails are made in the U.S.A. The sail is a Christmas present from my daughter so I will not know how this works out until then. Jim & Diane Une Petite Sialia M-15, #414
When it hits you in the head, you discover why they call it the "boom". Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of casioqv@usermail.com Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 3:55 PM To: jeo28@frontier.com; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 sail That's great to know, I consider a boom that hits your head while seated a major safety hazard. Have you heard if there's any specific pattern to the mast lengths (different lengths in different years, etc.)? Tyler M15 ----- Original Message ----- From: jeo28@frontier.com To: "montgomery boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 11:53:26 AM Subject: M_Boats: m-15 sail I had a nice conversation with Harry at EPsails. I saw on a blog that the M-15 has 2 different mast heights possible. the MSOG specs call for 16.83' for the p. which I read fits ok on the 19'6" mast. We have the 19'2" mast which is supposed to be the other common length mast. I decided to shorten the p. length by 4" because I do not want the boom hitting me in the head. This should come close to the size of main we have now. Harry was excellent to work with and EPsails are made in the U.S.A. The sail is a Christmas present from my daughter so I will not know how this works out until then. Jim & Diane Une Petite Sialia M-15, #414
Tyler, Is this what you are looking for? Skip -----Original Message----- From: casioqv <casioqv@usermail.com> To: jeo28 <jeo28@frontier.com>; For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 4:56 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 sail That's great to know, I consider a boom that hits your head while seated a major safety hazard. Have you heard if there's any specific pattern to the mast lengths (different lengths in different years, etc.)? Tyler M15 ----- Original Message ----- From: jeo28@frontier.com To: "montgomery boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 11:53:26 AM Subject: M_Boats: m-15 sail I had a nice conversation with Harry at EPsails. I saw on a blog that the M-15 has 2 different mast heights possible. the MSOG specs call for 16.83' for the p. which I read fits ok on the 19'6" mast. We have the 19'2" mast which is supposed to be the other common length mast. I decided to shorten the p. length by 4" because I do not want the boom hitting me in the head. This should come close to the size of main we have now. Harry was excellent to work with and EPsails are made in the U.S.A. The sail is a Christmas present from my daughter so I will not know how this works out until then. Jim & Diane Une Petite Sialia M-15, #414
I think I like the name of your M-15, Une Petite Sialia. I think it translates to One Small ? ?, but I couln't find Sialia in my Spanish Dictionary. What does it mean? Steve M-15 # 335 Shrunken Treasure ----- Original Message ----- From: jeo28@frontier.com To: "montgomery boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 11:53:26 AM Subject: M_Boats: m-15 sail I had a nice conversation with Harry at EPsails. I saw on a blog that the M-15 has 2 different mast heights possible. the MSOG specs call for 16.83' for the p. which I read fits ok on the 19'6" mast. We have the 19'2" mast which is supposed to be the other common length mast. I decided to shorten the p. length by 4" because I do not want the boom hitting me in the head. This should come close to the size of main we have now. Harry was excellent to work with and EPsails are made in the U.S.A. The sail is a Christmas present from my daughter so I will not know how this works out until then. Jim & Diane Une Petite Sialia M-15, #414 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3426 / Virus Database: 3222/6799 - Release Date: 11/01/13
Quick look on the web says Sialia is the genus name of the blue north American songbird. On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:57 AM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
I think I like the name of your M-15, Une Petite Sialia. I think it translates to One Small ? ?, but I couln't find Sialia in my Spanish Dictionary. What does it mean? Steve M-15 # 335 Shrunken Treasure
----- Original Message ----- From: jeo28@frontier.com To: "montgomery boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 11:53:26 AM Subject: M_Boats: m-15 sail
I had a nice conversation with Harry at EPsails. I saw on a blog that the M-15 has 2 different mast heights possible. the MSOG specs call for 16.83' for the p. which I read fits ok on the 19'6" mast. We have the 19'2" mast which is supposed to be the other common length mast. I decided to shorten the p. length by 4" because I do not want the boom hitting me in the head. This should come close to the size of main we have now. Harry was excellent to work with and EPsails are made in the U.S.A. The sail is a Christmas present from my daughter so I will not know how this works out until then.
Jim & Diane Une Petite Sialia M-15, #414
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3426 / Virus Database: 3222/6799 - Release Date: 11/01/13
I am a book guy, so I looked in my Sibleys bird book and found, siala is a bluebird. Steve M-15 # 335 Shrunken Treasure ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Smith" <openboatt@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: <jeo28@frontier.com> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:13 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 Sialia ? sail
Quick look on the web says Sialia is the genus name of the blue north American songbird.
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:57 AM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
I think I like the name of your M-15, Une Petite Sialia. I think it translates to One Small ? ?, but I couln't find Sialia in my Spanish Dictionary. What does it mean? Steve M-15 # 335 Shrunken Treasure
----- Original Message ----- From: jeo28@frontier.com To: "montgomery boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 11:53:26 AM Subject: M_Boats: m-15 sail
I had a nice conversation with Harry at EPsails. I saw on a blog that the M-15 has 2 different mast heights possible. the MSOG specs call for 16.83' for the p. which I read fits ok on the 19'6" mast. We have the 19'2" mast which is supposed to be the other common length mast. I decided to shorten the p. length by 4" because I do not want the boom hitting me in the head. This should come close to the size of main we have now. Harry was excellent to work with and EPsails are made in the U.S.A. The sail is a Christmas present from my daughter so I will not know how this works out until then.
Jim & Diane Une Petite Sialia M-15, #414
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3426 / Virus Database: 3222/6799 - Release Date: 11/01/13
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3426 / Virus Database: 3222/6802 - Release Date: 11/01/13
Sialia is the genus for the bluebird. Sialia Sialis is the name for the eastern bluebird which we have here in northern Illinois. Our M-15 has the blue sheerstripe. I shortened the name to Sialia. Jim ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "jeo28@frontier.com" <jeo28@frontier.com> To: "" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 1:53 PM Subject: m-15 sail I had a nice conversation with Harry at EPsails. I saw on a blog that the M-15 has 2 different mast heights possible. the MSOG specs call for 16.83' for the p. which I read fits ok on the 19'6" mast. We have the 19'2" mast which is supposed to be the other common length mast. I decided to shorten the p. length by 4" because I do not want the boom hitting me in the head. This should come close to the size of main we have now. Harry was excellent to work with and EPsails are made in the U.S.A. The sail is a Christmas present from my daughter so I will not know how this works out until then. Jim & Diane Une Petite Sialia M-15, #414 ________________________________ From: "montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 12:50 PM Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 129, Issue 1 ----- Forwarded Message ----- Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sail Area M15 (GILASAILR@aol.com) 2. Re: Sail Area M15 (W David Scobie) 3. Re: Sail Area M15 (Daniel Rich) 4. Re: standard reefing on an M15 (Jim Dahlquist) 5. Re: Sail Area M15 (casioqv@usermail.com) 6. Re: Sail Area M15 (George Iemmolo) 7. Re: Sail Area M15 (casioqv@usermail.com) 8. Re: Sail Area M15 (George Iemmolo) 9. Re: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve (Jim Dahlquist) 10. Re: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve (Hughston, Larry@DGS) 11. depth for launching (Tom Jenkins) 12. Re: depth for launching (Randy Graves) 13. Re: depth for launching (George R. Iemmolo) 14. Re: depth for launching (Tom Smith) 15. Re: depth for launching (Tom Jenkins) 16. Re: depth for launching (Tom Jenkins) 17. Re: depth for launching (Tom Jenkins) About $700. and 1/4 knot in boatspeed - {;>) Just kidding - I don't think there are many 'fathead M-15' mainsails on standard rigs to provide a realistic comparison - BUT you would have: a new sail (probably faster) 'Fashion forward' style points (actually more than that) your biggest gains would be on offwind/downwind legs - - go with the used main and see what develops from there. then go for the bitchin wahoo carbon load path model! (just kiddin' again) Sometimes these "modifications" backfire - folks seem to think a modified "part/rig/sail" MUST make you go faster or higher when all they really are is 'different'. Some are even a disadvantage - but the perception is 'hot rod' - develop skills then develop machinery is a good path. Time in the boat is worth more than almost anything (except new good sails ;>) Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO _www.wrinkleboat.webs.com_ (http://www.wrinkleboat.webs.com/) In a message dated 10/24/2013 1:28:57 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, griemmolo2@gmail.com writes: Wrinkle Boat Mates Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?) Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23. George: the M15 isn't underpowered. a larger main can have advantage in light wind, but you need to reef earlier. Dan's M15 is a 'one-off' so he can better speak to the sail area differences. you don't want to go 'to big' or you have a sail with a center of effort in the incorrect location. another consideration is a larger genoa for light wind. this would involve, at minimum, adding a block on the toe rail for the changed sheeting angle (a block on a sliding track would be better). i wonder if your headsail is the same size as a stock M15? your standing rig is different so it may be smaller (a guess, i have no idea). :: Dave Scobie -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 10/24/13, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote: Wrinkle Boat Mates Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?) Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23. Sadly, still haven't heard anything from Judy B. Nonetheless, I am bullish that she will get the sails to me soon. Once I have them, and everything is working correctly, I will arrange getting my old set to you. Daniel
On Oct 24, 2013, at 1:28 PM, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrinkle Boat Mates
Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?)
Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23.
Hi Dave, Thanks for the reply. I hope this is the right way to reply back using xmission. I confess that I never learned enough of the sailboat terminology that you are using. But here is an old photo of my mainsail where I looked up and added the terms for the six main parts of the sail. I think I really only knew two for sure. I also added numbers for the reefing eylets. Last winter I had slides added to the Luff, and now I see why I need them on the foot as well, for convenient reefing. I am attaching the mainsail and other photos of numbered or lettered items presently unused & unknown to me. Maybe some are for a spinnaker which I don't envision for myself. The items marked A,E & F are temporarily used by me for the topping lift that I added. The link is to a dropbox folder which I think is supposed to work https://www.dropbox.com/s/2phjkr3jsgo9594/MainSail-1.JPG https://www.dropbox.com/s/0v9o21vnmkoeluu/Unused-ABCDEF-Port.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/ia8caa0mtlmtr5b/Unused-GHIJ-Port.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/65djp3uix61ssk7/Unused-KL-Mast.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwht84ws2fom1p3/Unused-M-Starboard.jpg Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL jim@dhlqst.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 12:27 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jim:
concerning your boom and reefing.
not sure exactly what you are describing for the reef tack line at the mast. there should be a strap-eye on the port side of the mast. dead-end the reef's tack line on the strap-eye. run the line through the reef grommet. there should be a clam-cleat on the starboard side of the mast (about opposite of the strap-eye). run the line through the clam-cleat.
on the boom the eye at the end, noted as #1, is for the outhaul .. but i recommend adding some hardware to make it work more effectively (can cover this later).
the cheek block, #3, and the clam-cleat, #4, are for the reef's clew grommet. the reef's clew line is dead-ended on the strap eye that is located oppose the cheek block (port side of boom). run line through the reef's clew grommet, thru the cheek bock and then the clam-cleat.
to reef drop main so the tack grommet is at the location the gooseneck rides. pull the clew line tight. pull the tack line tight. raise the main to tighten the luff. now you can clean up the reef, though not required, using the cringle lines (if you have a loose-foot main tie sail to itself, _not_ to the boom). not including 'cleaning up' with the cringle lines reefing should take <30 seconds.
if needed let me know if you need photos.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred
-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10/23/13, Jim Dahlquist <jimdahlquist@gmail.com> wrote:
One more subject. Although this is my 5th sailboat (bought last fall), I have never reefed a mainsail, although get the general idea, and I have tried it once on my M15, and it went well, and I will be wanting to do it more. So a few questions: 1. The reefing rope nearest the mast could go in the little pivot, swivel, stretch area to avoid rubbing on the thick mainsail bunched in that area. I avoided doing this. Am I right? 2. The following is a photo of my boom. I am using the side pulley and cleat for my outhaul. Is that what they are for? https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0fx4yn52ixrhd1/BoatBoom2.jpg 3. Do I need more hardware on my boom for reefing quickly and safely? 4. Is there a good video or photo or other reference for reefing the M15?
Thanks,
Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL. jim@dhlqst.com
I am planning to soon order a set of sails for my newly purchased M15... and have been thinking I'd order a large nylon drifter as a light air solution. Elliott / Pattison quoted me a surprisingly affordable price, but I haven't shopped around at all. Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "MONTGOMERY LIST" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:27:36 PM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Area M15 Wrinkle Boat Mates Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?) Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23. Dave My standing rigging is per specs I believe you pointed me to on MSOG. My Main is 2' short that is why I am buying used sails to spec from Daniel. Tyler I would appreciate any info on a light air sail like a Drifter and the sail makers site. I was wondering if a Asymmetrical Sail for an M15 has been spec'd out. Daniel no problem as I am not looking to splash till May 20014 George Merry Helen M15 #602 On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:22 PM, <GILASAILR@aol.com> wrote:
About $700. and 1/4 knot in boatspeed - {;>)
Just kidding - I don't think there are many 'fathead M-15' mainsails on standard rigs to provide a realistic comparison - BUT you would have: a new sail (probably faster) 'Fashion forward' style points (actually more than that) your biggest gains would be on offwind/downwind legs - - go with the used main and see what develops from there. then go for the bitchin wahoo carbon load path model! (just kiddin' again)
Sometimes these "modifications" backfire - folks seem to think a modified
"part/rig/sail" MUST make you go faster or higher when all they really are
is 'different'. Some are even a disadvantage - but the perception is 'hot rod' - develop skills then develop machinery is a good path.
Time in the boat is worth more than almost anything (except new good sails ;>)
Have Fun, Go Sailing.
GO
_www.wrinkleboat.webs.com_ (http://www.wrinkleboat.webs.com/)
In a message dated 10/24/2013 1:28:57 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, griemmolo2@gmail.com writes:
Wrinkle Boat Mates
Am in the process of buying used standard sail from Daniel (Have you heard anything from Judy B/Hyde yet about your new sails?)
Was wondering What the difference in the Main SA is between a standard Main and a Fatheaded Main. As I sail on a inland lake in NWI I have found that I am in light air most of the season. Much different than Lake Michigan my previous sailing venue with my Pearson 23.
George, Elliott / Pattison also quoted a good price for an M15 asymmetrical spinnaker, so I assume they have specs for one. I'm planning to go with the drifter instead because it should sail a bit closer to the wind. Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:10:46 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Area M15 Dave My standing rigging is per specs I believe you pointed me to on MSOG. My Main is 2' short that is why I am buying used sails to spec from Daniel. Tyler I would appreciate any info on a light air sail like a Drifter and the sail makers site. I was wondering if a Asymmetrical Sail for an M15 has been spec'd out. Daniel no problem as I am not looking to splash till May 20014 George Merry Helen M15 #602 Tyler is it possible for you to pass on any information on the quotes you received? George On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:48 PM, <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
George,
Elliott / Pattison also quoted a good price for an M15 asymmetrical spinnaker, so I assume they have specs for one. I'm planning to go with the drifter instead because it should sail a bit closer to the wind.
Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:10:46 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Area M15
Dave
My standing rigging is per specs I believe you pointed me to on MSOG. My Main is 2' short that is why I am buying used sails to spec from
Daniel.
Tyler
I would appreciate any info on a light air sail like a Drifter and the sail makers site. I was wondering if a Asymmetrical Sail for an M15 has been spec'd out.
Daniel
no problem as I am not looking to splash till May 20014
George Merry Helen M15 #602
Hi Larry, I can help you with the parts, but the process was a considerable stress for me for several months, risking possible damage to my boat, etc. I am an electronic engineer, and not very familiar with fiberglass and epoxy boat construction or techniques. In fact I epoxied about a square foot of my driveway in the process. The valve and the rope tube(not a CB lifter) are made from parts McMaster Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com/) and the epoxy and fiberglass come from West Marine. The valve is made from 3 sizes of concentric polyarbonate tubing, and a floating plastic ball. The rope tube is required because the CB rope comes through the same drain hole, and to prevent water from coming out around the rope the tube is used to set a higher level and smaller flow area for water to enter the cockpit. I also used a special wooden guide for the Dremel grinding tool to create room for the new drain tube. And I had to grind and shape a thin polycarb sheet to be able to pour epoxy from the cockpit without removing the CB. My cockpit now has a considerably smaller drain opening and therefore longer time to fully drain a full cockpit. Here is a video showing the check valve in a test: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eqh92lf6pyuigii/CheckValveTest.MOV Considering the effort in putting all of the details together, and not really knowing that my design or methods are of commercial quality and reliability, I a degree of concern as to what sort of responsibility I may incur for end results. Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL jim@dhlqst.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Hughston, Larry@DGS < Larry.Hughston@dgs.ca.gov> wrote:
Just looked at the images of you center M-15 drain. Good setup. I have my drain in the original "Jerry Montgomery" arrangement but I added stainless steel Chore Boy scrubbing pads as strainers / filters on either side of the drain under the teak cover. Seems to work well but I would like to know how to fit the stainless steel CB lifter. Good idea....Larry in old 189 M-15 Where can I get a check valve too?
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dahlquist Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:06 PM To: Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve
I finally got an end of season Lake Michigan checkout and verification of my new cockpit check valve. It worked great. My son visiting from Charlotte was with me so only two aboard for this test. There was a nice wind, and average waves, and still warm enough to forget any jackets or long sleeves. No water came in, and we could hear a slight clicking as the valve opened and closed with the waves. Not a drop in the cockpit, after last year with 3 in the boat,the cold water kept coming in and running back in the cockpit making cold feet. I cut that short. The two people with me were relatives with no sailing knowledge.
The valve has a 3/4 inch floating ball, and it is accessible by pulling out the poly carbonate valve seat cylinder which is is just a friction fit. And because I hadn't yet gotten around to making a small wireform spacer to prevent it; the wave action after a few hours sailing and motoring, the ball and seal worked their way out and let lots of water in. The parts were not lost however, because there is a stainless perf metal filter for keeping leaves and debris out of the drain. There is also an epoxied stainless tube over the centerboard rope. I am delighted at how well this worked and am looking forward to more testing opportunities. It is too late for sailing in Chicago this year.
I am wondering about the potential for towing the boat down to the keys in hopes of finding good sailing weather and places to explore, and safe harbor at night. I don't think any of my family members could make it and so I would need to find someone to help me crew, or someone with a boat to sail with.
Here are a couple photos of my check valve setup:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8igwhsdyit5cyg/ChkValveFail.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/2oflc7ff4kaoykn/ChkValveParts.jpg
The second link shows the essential valve parts(Valve tube, Rope tube, Perforated stainlessf filter, new wireform spacer setting below the two tubes, Teak cover board with forward lock pins and locking brass knob.
One more subject. Although this is my 5th sailboat (bought last fall), I have never reefed a mainsail, although get the general idea, and I have tried it once on my M15, and it went well, and I will be wanting to do it more. So a few questions: 1. The reefing rope nearest the mast could go in the little pivot, swivel, stretch area to avoid rubbing on the thick mainsail bunched in that area. I avoided doing this. Am I right? 2. The following is a photo of my boom. I am using the side pulley and cleat for my outhaul. Is that what they are for? https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0fx4yn52ixrhd1/BoatBoom2.jpg 3. Do I need more hardware on my boom for reefing quickly and safely? 4. Is there a good video or photo or other reference for reefing the M15?
Thanks,
Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL. jim@dhlqst.com
Good video....thanks. Let me know how the real life on the water and wind work out...Larry H. with old 189 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dahlquist Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve Hi Larry, I can help you with the parts, but the process was a considerable stress for me for several months, risking possible damage to my boat, etc. I am an electronic engineer, and not very familiar with fiberglass and epoxy boat construction or techniques. In fact I epoxied about a square foot of my driveway in the process. The valve and the rope tube(not a CB lifter) are made from parts McMaster Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com/) and the epoxy and fiberglass come from West Marine. The valve is made from 3 sizes of concentric polyarbonate tubing, and a floating plastic ball. The rope tube is required because the CB rope comes through the same drain hole, and to prevent water from coming out around the rope the tube is used to set a higher level and smaller flow area for water to enter the cockpit. I also used a special wooden guide for the Dremel grinding tool to create room for the new drain tube. And I had to grind and shape a thin polycarb sheet to be able to pour epoxy from the cockpit without removing the CB. My cockpit now has a considerably smaller drain opening and therefore longer time to fully drain a full cockpit. Here is a video showing the check valve in a test: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eqh92lf6pyuigii/CheckValveTest.MOV Considering the effort in putting all of the details together, and not really knowing that my design or methods are of commercial quality and reliability, I a degree of concern as to what sort of responsibility I may incur for end results. Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL jim@dhlqst.com On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Hughston, Larry@DGS < Larry.Hughston@dgs.ca.gov> wrote:
Just looked at the images of you center M-15 drain. Good setup. I have my drain in the original "Jerry Montgomery" arrangement but I added stainless steel Chore Boy scrubbing pads as strainers / filters on either side of the drain under the teak cover. Seems to work well but I would like to know how to fit the stainless steel CB lifter. Good idea....Larry in old 189 M-15 Where can I get a check valve too?
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dahlquist Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:06 PM To: Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: M15 Checkout with new cockpit check valve
I finally got an end of season Lake Michigan checkout and verification of my new cockpit check valve. It worked great. My son visiting from Charlotte was with me so only two aboard for this test. There was a nice wind, and average waves, and still warm enough to forget any jackets or long sleeves. No water came in, and we could hear a slight clicking as the valve opened and closed with the waves. Not a drop in the cockpit, after last year with 3 in the boat,the cold water kept coming in and running back in the cockpit making cold feet. I cut that short. The two people with me were relatives with no sailing knowledge.
The valve has a 3/4 inch floating ball, and it is accessible by pulling out the poly carbonate valve seat cylinder which is is just a friction fit. And because I hadn't yet gotten around to making a small wireform spacer to prevent it; the wave action after a few hours sailing and motoring, the ball and seal worked their way out and let lots of water in. The parts were not lost however, because there is a stainless perf metal filter for keeping leaves and debris out of the drain. There is also an epoxied stainless tube over the centerboard rope. I am delighted at how well this worked and am looking forward to more testing opportunities. It is too late for sailing in Chicago this year.
I am wondering about the potential for towing the boat down to the keys in hopes of finding good sailing weather and places to explore, and safe harbor at night. I don't think any of my family members could make it and so I would need to find someone to help me crew, or someone with a boat to sail with.
Here are a couple photos of my check valve setup:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8igwhsdyit5cyg/ChkValveFail.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/2oflc7ff4kaoykn/ChkValveParts.jpg
The second link shows the essential valve parts(Valve tube, Rope tube, Perforated stainlessf filter, new wireform spacer setting below the two tubes, Teak cover board with forward lock pins and locking brass knob.
One more subject. Although this is my 5th sailboat (bought last fall), I have never reefed a mainsail, although get the general idea, and I have tried it once on my M15, and it went well, and I will be wanting to do it more. So a few questions: 1. The reefing rope nearest the mast could go in the little pivot, swivel, stretch area to avoid rubbing on the thick mainsail bunched in that area. I avoided doing this. Am I right? 2. The following is a photo of my boom. I am using the side pulley and cleat for my outhaul. Is that what they are for? https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0fx4yn52ixrhd1/BoatBoom2.jpg 3. Do I need more hardware on my boom for reefing quickly and safely? 4. Is there a good video or photo or other reference for reefing the M15?
Thanks,
Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL. jim@dhlqst.com
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626 Hi Tom, We brought our M17 (1988) home last weekend, as the lake level is dropping for the winter, and I noted that the top of the trailer fenders were under the water when I had enough float to get the boat on/off the trailer. The top of our fenders is roughly 34 inches (1988 Trailrite trailer with drop-down axle & 15 inch wheels). The top of our fenders is roughly 6 inches below the bottom of the waterline stripe. Taking all this into account I recall that the stern of our 17 is floating and we can push her off the trailer our use the wench to crank her up onto it. I know your setup is different but maybe this will help. Randy Graves On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
Tom Do you have an extendable tongue (approx 6')? If not you can drop the trailer tongue and push the trailer in until the boat floats of. Don't forget to attach a line to the trailer before doing that, don't ask how I know about that:-). George M15 #602 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:14 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: depth for launching Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626 I love using the wench to crank her up... On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Randy Graves <rkgraves@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
We brought our M17 (1988) home last weekend, as the lake level is dropping for the winter, and I noted that the top of the trailer fenders were under the water when I had enough float to get the boat on/off the trailer. The top of our fenders is roughly 34 inches (1988 Trailrite trailer with drop-down axle & 15 inch wheels). The top of our fenders is roughly 6 inches below the bottom of the waterline stripe. Taking all this into account I recall that the stern of our 17 is floating and we can push her off the trailer our use the wench to crank her up onto it. I know your setup is different but maybe this will help.
Randy Graves
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
Regrettably, my wench won't do no crankin'. On Nov 1, 2013, at 10:02 AM, Tom Smith wrote:
I love using the wench to crank her up...
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Randy Graves <rkgraves@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
We brought our M17 (1988) home last weekend, as the lake level is dropping for the winter, and I noted that the top of the trailer fenders were under the water when I had enough float to get the boat on/off the trailer. The top of our fenders is roughly 34 inches (1988 Trailrite trailer with drop-down axle & 15 inch wheels). The top of our fenders is roughly 6 inches below the bottom of the waterline stripe. Taking all this into account I recall that the stern of our 17 is floating and we can push her off the trailer our use the wench to crank her up onto it. I know your setup is different but maybe this will help.
Randy Graves
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
Randy, Thanks for the input. I don't know if there are differences in how low the boat rides on different trailers, but my fenders are 30" off the road, and I too have to submerge them to float the boat. Unfortunately, I never measured how far. I have sturdy PVC uprights to keep the boat centered while retrieving in a crosswind, and a smart person would have put Sharpie marks on said uprights so the trailer could be pre-positioned to just the right depth. Anyway, I'm now guessing at least 36" water depth at the axles, and my heavy tub (four bronze portlights, battery, junk) might want more. Four feet sounds like overkill, but I'm still not 100% sure with my trailer. Tom Jenkins On Nov 1, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Randy Graves wrote:
Hi Tom,
We brought our M17 (1988) home last weekend, as the lake level is dropping for the winter, and I noted that the top of the trailer fenders were under the water when I had enough float to get the boat on/off the trailer. The top of our fenders is roughly 34 inches (1988 Trailrite trailer with drop-down axle & 15 inch wheels). The top of our fenders is roughly 6 inches below the bottom of the waterline stripe. Taking all this into account I recall that the stern of our 17 is floating and we can push her off the trailer our use the wench to crank her up onto it. I know your setup is different but maybe this will help.
Randy Graves
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
George, First off, I won't ask you how you know about the line. Secondly, the problem with our ramps at really low water is that they can end before the water is deep enough to float a sailboat. Often wave action erodes the sediments where the concrete ends, making a nasty cliff that can snag the trailer. As an example, Goggle Earth the ramp at Temple Bar on Lake Mead. The ramp is hundreds of yards long, but last time I was there the trailer wheels on powerboats still hit the gravel bottom. I do have a trailer extension, and fortunately I have not found a ramp with a low enough angle that I need to unhitch the beast, but you never know. Tom Jenkins On Nov 1, 2013, at 9:30 AM, George R. Iemmolo wrote:
Tom
Do you have an extendable tongue (approx 6')? If not you can drop the trailer tongue and push the trailer in until the boat floats of. Don't forget to attach a line to the trailer before doing that, don't ask how I know about that:-).
George M15 #602
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:14 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: depth for launching
Out here in the west we are having some water level issues at launching ramps. Just wondering if anyone has measured the depth over the axle necessary to float a 21st century Montgomery 17 with a stock Pacific trailer. I hate to drive several hundred miles to find she won't float. Someone told me that 4' is a rough figure, but I have always been too busy
at the ramp to confirm this number. Thanks much.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla, Hull 626
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participants (6)
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casioqv＠usermail.com -
jeo28＠frontier.com -
Rich Makela -
stevetrapp -
Tom Smith -
wcampion＠aol.com