Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun. fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.
fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
Thanks for the feedback, Tom. I have flown jibs with a pendant before. Reefing the main sounds like a good idea always. A double reef sometimes maybe? How long are the supports (cannot think of that term) for the roach on the jib? I once had a row of reef points put in a 110 jib when I owned a Flicka. That worked quite well also, it let the boat sail on her lines better in a stiff wind. Be very interesting to see how high I could point with an 80 in front of a reefed main with a barber hauler closing the angle to about 10degrees on the jib. Fun in little boats! Fair winds, Tom B On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.
fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
Tom B: My for my M17, I had Ullman build me a 60% storm jib that I fly with a double reefed main. Just a skimpy little blade. With that setup, I've been in 25 to 30 knots and gusting higher and in control. May not seem like much sail, but in those conditions, it was plenty. (5.5 knots into the wind, 6 knots plus with it and 2 knots with the wind under bare poles). Howard On Mar 12, 2015, at 12:10 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Tom. I have flown jibs with a pendant before. Reefing the main sounds like a good idea always. A double reef sometimes maybe? How long are the supports (cannot think of that term) for the roach on the jib? I once had a row of reef points put in a 110 jib when I owned a Flicka. That worked quite well also, it let the boat sail on her lines better in a stiff wind. Be very interesting to see how high I could point with an 80 in front of a reefed main with a barber hauler closing the angle to about 10degrees on the jib. Fun in little boats!
Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.
fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
Hi Howard, Haven't heard of Ullman sails in quite a while. I will look them up about the 60%. I never EXPECT to be out in 25-30 knot winds, but....... Nice to know the 17 can still sail into them in such conditions. Tom B On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
Tom B:
My for my M17, I had Ullman build me a 60% storm jib that I fly with a double reefed main. Just a skimpy little blade. With that setup, I've been in 25 to 30 knots and gusting higher and in control. May not seem like much sail, but in those conditions, it was plenty. (5.5 knots into the wind, 6 knots plus with it and 2 knots with the wind under bare poles).
Howard
On Mar 12, 2015, at 12:10 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Tom. I have flown jibs with a pendant before. Reefing the main sounds like a good idea always. A double reef sometimes maybe? How long are the supports (cannot think of that term) for the roach on the jib? I once had a row of reef points put in a 110 jib when I owned a Flicka. That worked quite well also, it let the boat sail on her lines better in a stiff wind. Be very interesting to see how high I could point with an 80 in front of a reefed main with a barber hauler closing the angle to about 10degrees on the jib. Fun in little boats!
Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.
fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
Tom, The barber hauler is a good idea. Has anyone deployed one on an M17? If so, I'd be interested in the setup. Will it work with a roller furled genoa with an adjustable jib sheet car? Regarding reefing, I've sailed Lynne L in a 15-18 kt breeze gusting to around 25 in short, steep river chop with a single reefed main and the genoa rolled up to around 80 to 90, and she foots easily to windward at 4.5 kt. Did get kinda wet, though . . . Seems like sailing with the jib alone would be pretty unbalanced. Appreciate any suggestions. Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Thursday, March 12, 2015, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Tom. I have flown jibs with a pendant before. Reefing the main sounds like a good idea always. A double reef sometimes maybe? How long are the supports (cannot think of that term) for the roach on the jib? I once had a row of reef points put in a 110 jib when I owned a Flicka. That worked quite well also, it let the boat sail on her lines better in a stiff wind. Be very interesting to see how high I could point with an 80 in front of a reefed main with a barber hauler closing the angle to about 10degrees on the jib. Fun in little boats!
Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.
fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
Hello Rick, When I emailed Jerry he suggested sailing a small jib at 10-14 degrees off the centerline of the boat when tacking into heavy wind. To do that you would need a barber hauler to draw the working sheet into the centerline as the rail will not allow the usual jib sheet car to come amid ships enough. A self tending jib, of course, could be used to sheet in the jib that close if it the clew was attached to the track. I picked up a couple of used snap shackles from Texas Used Nautical Equipment company in Kemah, Texas, for quite a discount. They were stiff with salt but a little working and a spray of Boeshield loosened everything up nicely. I plan on using them for the barber hauler as a quick setup when I am out someday and the afternoon winds kick up to around 20. The "fixed" end of the hauler will attach to an extra deck organizer plate hole I have set up right below the mast tabernacle That is once I get the smaller jib. As far as working on the foredeck in all that wind, I reversed the hinges on the forward hatch so I can creep out onto the foredeck enough to reach pretty much everything with a belt and line lead back inside to the mast partner below decks so I can keep my center of gravity as low as possible. For travel, I have a velcro strip holding down the hatch just in case I forget to fasten the latch below decks before I set off down the road. Interesting stuff. Tom B On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
The barber hauler is a good idea. Has anyone deployed one on an M17? If so, I'd be interested in the setup. Will it work with a roller furled genoa with an adjustable jib sheet car?
Regarding reefing, I've sailed Lynne L in a 15-18 kt breeze gusting to around 25 in short, steep river chop with a single reefed main and the genoa rolled up to around 80 to 90, and she foots easily to windward at 4.5 kt. Did get kinda wet, though . . . Seems like sailing with the jib alone would be pretty unbalanced.
Appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Thursday, March 12, 2015, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Tom. I have flown jibs with a pendant before. Reefing the main sounds like a good idea always. A double reef sometimes maybe? How long are the supports (cannot think of that term) for the roach on the jib? I once had a row of reef points put in a 110 jib when I owned a Flicka. That worked quite well also, it let the boat sail on her lines better in a stiff wind. Be very interesting to see how high I could point with an 80 in front of a reefed main with a barber hauler closing the angle to about 10degrees on the jib. Fun in little boats!
Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.
fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
Hi Tom, Years ago I thought of reversing the forehatch and changing sails from the v berth, but went with a CDI furler instead and never looked back. Now I'm at an age where I try to never leave the cockpit if I'm more than 100 yds from the dock, which works fine for everything except emergencies. Was Jerry referring to sailing under jib alone or with a reefed main? Seems like even with a small jib you'd really be fighting a lee helm without some main to balance it, and it would be tough to tack. I like Gary's idea of using the lazy sheet as an inhaul. Never thought of that, but it's worth a try. As you say, interesting stuff. Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Saturday, March 14, 2015, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Rick, When I emailed Jerry he suggested sailing a small jib at 10-14 degrees off the centerline of the boat when tacking into heavy wind. To do that you would need a barber hauler to draw the working sheet into the centerline as the rail will not allow the usual jib sheet car to come amid ships enough. A self tending jib, of course, could be used to sheet in the jib that close if it the clew was attached to the track. I picked up a couple of used snap shackles from Texas Used Nautical Equipment company in Kemah, Texas, for quite a discount. They were stiff with salt but a little working and a spray of Boeshield loosened everything up nicely. I plan on using them for the barber hauler as a quick setup when I am out someday and the afternoon winds kick up to around 20. The "fixed" end of the hauler will attach to an extra deck organizer plate hole I have set up right below the mast tabernacle That is once I get the smaller jib. As far as working on the foredeck in all that wind, I reversed the hinges on the forward hatch so I can creep out onto the foredeck enough to reach pretty much everything with a belt and line lead back inside to the mast partner below decks so I can keep my center of gravity as low as possible. For travel, I have a velcro strip holding down the hatch just in case I forget to fasten the latch below decks before I set off down the road. Interesting stuff. Tom B
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
Tom,
The barber hauler is a good idea. Has anyone deployed one on an M17? If so, I'd be interested in the setup. Will it work with a roller furled genoa with an adjustable jib sheet car?
Regarding reefing, I've sailed Lynne L in a 15-18 kt breeze gusting to around 25 in short, steep river chop with a single reefed main and the genoa rolled up to around 80 to 90, and she foots easily to windward at 4.5 kt. Did get kinda wet, though . . . Seems like sailing with the jib alone would be pretty unbalanced.
Appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Thursday, March 12, 2015, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <javascript:;> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <javascript:;>');>> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Tom. I have flown jibs with a pendant before. Reefing the main sounds like a good idea always. A double reef sometimes maybe? How long are the supports (cannot think of that term) for the roach on the jib? I once had a row of reef points put in a 110 jib when I owned a Flicka. That worked quite well also, it let the boat sail on her lines better in a stiff wind. Be very interesting to see how high I could point with an 80 in front of a reefed main with a barber hauler closing the angle to about 10degrees on the jib. Fun in little boats!
Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi < thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.
fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
Hello Rick, Yeah, using the lazy sheet could be a nice simple way to improve the sheeting angle. I think on something like an 80 or 60% jib some sort of snatch block at the foot of the mast would pull back and well as down and could be just the ticket. Fun to experiment. Do more with less. I think Jerry was talking about just the jib and assumed that the main would still be up with a reef in it. Doesn't seem you'd be able to point worth a darn without some sail behind the mast. Tom B and his yacht, "AS IS" On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
Years ago I thought of reversing the forehatch and changing sails from the v berth, but went with a CDI furler instead and never looked back. Now I'm at an age where I try to never leave the cockpit if I'm more than 100 yds from the dock, which works fine for everything except emergencies.
Was Jerry referring to sailing under jib alone or with a reefed main? Seems like even with a small jib you'd really be fighting a lee helm without some main to balance it, and it would be tough to tack.
I like Gary's idea of using the lazy sheet as an inhaul. Never thought of that, but it's worth a try.
As you say, interesting stuff.
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Saturday, March 14, 2015, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Rick, When I emailed Jerry he suggested sailing a small jib at 10-14 degrees off the centerline of the boat when tacking into heavy wind. To do that you would need a barber hauler to draw the working sheet into the centerline as the rail will not allow the usual jib sheet car to come amid ships enough. A self tending jib, of course, could be used to sheet in the jib that close if it the clew was attached to the track. I picked up a couple of used snap shackles from Texas Used Nautical Equipment company in Kemah, Texas, for quite a discount. They were stiff with salt but a little working and a spray of Boeshield loosened everything up nicely. I plan on using them for the barber hauler as a quick setup when I am out someday and the afternoon winds kick up to around 20. The "fixed" end of the hauler will attach to an extra deck organizer plate hole I have set up right below the mast tabernacle That is once I get the smaller jib. As far as working on the foredeck in all that wind, I reversed the hinges on the forward hatch so I can creep out onto the foredeck enough to reach pretty much everything with a belt and line lead back inside to the mast partner below decks so I can keep my center of gravity as low as possible. For travel, I have a velcro strip holding down the hatch just in case I forget to fasten the latch below decks before I set off down the road. Interesting stuff. Tom B
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
Tom,
The barber hauler is a good idea. Has anyone deployed one on an M17? If so, I'd be interested in the setup. Will it work with a roller furled genoa with an adjustable jib sheet car?
Regarding reefing, I've sailed Lynne L in a 15-18 kt breeze gusting to around 25 in short, steep river chop with a single reefed main and the genoa rolled up to around 80 to 90, and she foots easily to windward at 4.5 kt. Did get kinda wet, though . . . Seems like sailing with the jib alone would be pretty unbalanced.
Appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks,
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Thursday, March 12, 2015, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <javascript:;> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <javascript:;>');>> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, Tom. I have flown jibs with a pendant before. Reefing the main sounds like a good idea always. A double reef sometimes maybe? How long are the supports (cannot think of that term) for the roach on the jib? I once had a row of reef points put in a 110 jib when I owned a Flicka. That worked quite well also, it let the boat sail on her lines better in a stiff wind. Be very interesting to see how high I could point with an 80 in front of a reefed main with a barber hauler closing the angle to about 10degrees on the jib. Fun in little boats!
Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi < thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.
fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"
participants (4)
-
Howard Audsley -
Rick Davies -
Thomas Buzzi -
Tom Smith