I'm turning into the man of 1000 questions. So I went to Defender Marine last Thursday for their sale. I ordered a couple of replacement buckles with toggle nuts to replace the backstay and headstay ones, as they don't turn well any more, and one had a bend. I received them yesterday, and I got T bolts instead of toggle nuts. Ok, so I called Johnson today to verify that they're as strong as what I had with toggle nuts. No problem there, but in conversation it came up that my standing rigging is 1/8 wire with thimbles and 2 swaged ovals on each end of each cable. Was this standard? Johnson suggested getting rid of it and in fact suggested switching it all over to machine swaged ends because mine are not suitable for standing rigging. What is the consensus here? -Gerry
It sounds like you have nicopress rigging. That's perfectly suitable for standing rigging, and is just as strong and long lasting as machine swaged ends. Some people don't think it looks as neat/clean, and it is more likely to snag on things. For these reasons, you won't find this type of rigging anymore from the factory on modern sailboats- but it's perfectly safe and serviceable. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 10:32:32 AM Subject: M_Boats: Standing rigging? I'm turning into the man of 1000 questions. So I went to Defender Marine last Thursday for their sale. I ordered a couple of replacement buckles with toggle nuts to replace the backstay and headstay ones, as they don't turn well any more, and one had a bend. I received them yesterday, and I got T bolts instead of toggle nuts. Ok, so I called Johnson today to verify that they're as strong as what I had with toggle nuts. No problem there, but in conversation it came up that my standing rigging is 1/8 wire with thimbles and 2 swaged ovals on each end of each cable. Was this standard? Johnson suggested getting rid of it and in fact suggested switching it all over to machine swaged ends because mine are not suitable for standing rigging. What is the consensus here? -Gerry
Gerry. Your rig was cobbled together by a prior owner. All wires for the standing rig should have mechanically swagged fittings. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Tue, Apr 2, 2019, 10:41 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
It sounds like you have nicopress rigging. That's perfectly suitable for standing rigging, and is just as strong and long lasting as machine swaged ends. Some people don't think it looks as neat/clean, and it is more likely to snag on things. For these reasons, you won't find this type of rigging anymore from the factory on modern sailboats- but it's perfectly safe and serviceable.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 10:32:32 AM Subject: M_Boats: Standing rigging?
I'm turning into the man of 1000 questions. So I went to Defender Marine last Thursday for their sale. I ordered a couple of replacement buckles with toggle nuts to replace the backstay and headstay ones, as they don't turn well any more, and one had a bend. I received them yesterday, and I got T bolts instead of toggle nuts. Ok, so I called Johnson today to verify that they're as strong as what I had with toggle nuts. No problem there, but in conversation it came up that my standing rigging is 1/8 wire with thimbles and 2 swaged ovals on each end of each cable. Was this standard? Johnson suggested getting rid of it and in fact suggested switching it all over to machine swaged ends because mine are not suitable for standing rigging. What is the consensus here?
-Gerry
Yes Tyler, that is what I appear to have. When I was at Defender I asked about the Suncor hand swager they had for less that $70, and was told it will work for oval sleeves on 1/8 wire. However, I now thing not for Nicopress. The Suncor tool is about 1/10 the cost of the Nicopress. I assume it and their sleeves are for less critical applications. Maybe I'll just get it all made new and update the style. I have a few broken strands and was going to make my own shrouds and stays with this tool, but if I have to buy the Nicopress hand swager it's not really worth that cost for what may be a one time use. Maybe I'll try to call Suncor for Tech support. On Tuesday, April 2, 2019, 1:41:35 PM EDT, casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote: It sounds like you have nicopress rigging. That's perfectly suitable for standing rigging, and is just as strong and long lasting as machine swaged ends. Some people don't think it looks as neat/clean, and it is more likely to snag on things. For these reasons, you won't find this type of rigging anymore from the factory on modern sailboats- but it's perfectly safe and serviceable. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 10:32:32 AM Subject: M_Boats: Standing rigging? I'm turning into the man of 1000 questions. So I went to Defender Marine last Thursday for their sale. I ordered a couple of replacement buckles with toggle nuts to replace the backstay and headstay ones, as they don't turn well any more, and one had a bend. I received them yesterday, and I got T bolts instead of toggle nuts. Ok, so I called Johnson today to verify that they're as strong as what I had with toggle nuts. No problem there, but in conversation it came up that my standing rigging is 1/8 wire with thimbles and 2 swaged ovals on each end of each cable. Was this standard? Johnson suggested getting rid of it and in fact suggested switching it all over to machine swaged ends because mine are not suitable for standing rigging. What is the consensus here? -Gerry
My '74 M17 came with nicopress stays & shrouds. They work & are strong enough but are bulky, tend to snag lines more, tend to hang up/get stuck crooked at worst possible time(s) in mast raising. Probably not the originals, but I don't know if the originals back then were swaged or nicopress (Jerry?). I've replaced forestay & backstay recently (to accommodate jib furler) with swaged end stays. Shrouds are still Nicopress but probably sometime next few years I will replace them also. Partly preventative maintenance, since I don't know the full history of the existing shrouds (age, fabricator). Partly for a cleaner lower-snag/less-hangup standing rigging. cheers, John On 04/02/2019 10:41 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
It sounds like you have nicopress rigging. That's perfectly suitable for standing rigging, and is just as strong and long lasting as machine swaged ends. Some people don't think it looks as neat/clean, and it is more likely to snag on things. For these reasons, you won't find this type of rigging anymore from the factory on modern sailboats- but it's perfectly safe and serviceable.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 10:32:32 AM Subject: M_Boats: Standing rigging?
I'm turning into the man of 1000 questions. So I went to Defender Marine last Thursday for their sale. I ordered a couple of replacement buckles with toggle nuts to replace the backstay and headstay ones, as they don't turn well any more, and one had a bend. I received them yesterday, and I got T bolts instead of toggle nuts. Ok, so I called Johnson today to verify that they're as strong as what I had with toggle nuts. No problem there, but in conversation it came up that my standing rigging is 1/8 wire with thimbles and 2 swaged ovals on each end of each cable. Was this standard? Johnson suggested getting rid of it and in fact suggested switching it all over to machine swaged ends because mine are not suitable for standing rigging. What is the consensus here?
-Gerry
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
My '74 M17 came with nicopress stays & shrouds. ... Probably not the originals, but I don't know if the originals back then were swaged or nicopress (Jerry?)
Jerry has always said to me that the standing rig of the M17 :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Tue, Apr 2, 2019, 2:43 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
My '74 M17 came with nicopress stays & shrouds. They work & are strong enough but are bulky, tend to snag lines more, tend to hang up/get stuck crooked at worst possible time(s) in mast raising.
Probably not the originals, but I don't know if the originals back then were swaged or nicopress (Jerry?).
I've replaced forestay & backstay recently (to accommodate jib furler) with swaged end stays. Shrouds are still Nicopress but probably sometime next few years I will replace them also.
Partly preventative maintenance, since I don't know the full history of the existing shrouds (age, fabricator). Partly for a cleaner lower-snag/less-hangup standing rigging.
cheers, John
On 04/02/2019 10:41 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
It sounds like you have nicopress rigging. That's perfectly suitable for standing rigging, and is just as strong and long lasting as machine swaged ends. Some people don't think it looks as neat/clean, and it is more likely to snag on things. For these reasons, you won't find this type of rigging anymore from the factory on modern sailboats- but it's perfectly safe and serviceable.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 10:32:32 AM Subject: M_Boats: Standing rigging?
I'm turning into the man of 1000 questions. So I went to Defender Marine last Thursday for their sale. I ordered a couple of replacement buckles with toggle nuts to replace the backstay and headstay ones, as they don't turn well any more, and one had a bend. I received them yesterday, and I got T bolts instead of toggle nuts. Ok, so I called Johnson today to verify that they're as strong as what I had with toggle nuts. No problem there, but in conversation it came up that my standing rigging is 1/8 wire with thimbles and 2 swaged ovals on each end of each cable. Was this standard? Johnson suggested getting rid of it and in fact suggested switching it all over to machine swaged ends because mine are not suitable for standing rigging. What is the consensus here?
-Gerry
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Gerry lowes has a large hand swager for nico press better price, i also use it for making cables with locks, cheers On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 3:02 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
My '74 M17 came with nicopress stays & shrouds. ... Probably not the originals, but I don't know if the originals back then were swaged or nicopress (Jerry?)
Jerry has always said to me that the standing rig of the M17
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Tue, Apr 2, 2019, 2:43 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
My '74 M17 came with nicopress stays & shrouds. They work & are strong enough but are bulky, tend to snag lines more, tend to hang up/get stuck crooked at worst possible time(s) in mast raising.
Probably not the originals, but I don't know if the originals back then were swaged or nicopress (Jerry?).
I've replaced forestay & backstay recently (to accommodate jib furler) with swaged end stays. Shrouds are still Nicopress but probably sometime next few years I will replace them also.
Partly preventative maintenance, since I don't know the full history of the existing shrouds (age, fabricator). Partly for a cleaner lower-snag/less-hangup standing rigging.
cheers, John
On 04/02/2019 10:41 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
It sounds like you have nicopress rigging. That's perfectly suitable for standing rigging, and is just as strong and long lasting as machine swaged ends. Some people don't think it looks as neat/clean, and it is more likely to snag on things. For these reasons, you won't find this type of rigging anymore from the factory on modern sailboats- but it's perfectly safe and serviceable.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 10:32:32 AM Subject: M_Boats: Standing rigging?
I'm turning into the man of 1000 questions. So I went to Defender Marine last Thursday for their sale. I ordered a couple of replacement buckles with toggle nuts to replace the backstay and headstay ones, as they don't turn well any more, and one had a bend. I received them yesterday, and I got T bolts instead of toggle nuts. Ok, so I called Johnson today to verify that they're as strong as what I had with toggle nuts. No problem there, but in conversation it came up that my standing rigging is 1/8 wire with thimbles and 2 swaged ovals on each end of each cable. Was this standard? Johnson suggested getting rid of it and in fact suggested switching it all over to machine swaged ends because mine are not suitable for standing rigging. What is the consensus here?
-Gerry
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Gerry, Turnbuckle threads have to be kept lubricated. The best material for this is tallow. You can make a small amount of tallow (a little lasts you a long time) by getting some beef fat; put it in a _*dry pot - *_and heat it very slowly. Make very sure that your pot is absolutely dry - not a drop of water there, before you put the beef fat in the pot. If you have the tiniest trace of water, the liquid tallow will be on top; the water underneath. As the tallow gets hotter; the water drop turns to steam, the pressure builds up and you will suddenly have a small explosion as the steam pressure increases to the point where it can get through the liquid tallow, and escapes. You don't want to get spattered with hot tallow! When the beef fat is totally melted, remove any solids, by straining it through some cheesecloth. Cool your product and put it in a small container. It's a great lubricant for turnbuckles, for oar leathers, and rowlocks. It makes rowing easier, preserves the leather; and there are no more squeaks as you row. Ciao, Connie On 4/2/2019 12:32 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
I'm turning into the man of 1000 questions. So I went to Defender Marine last Thursday for their sale. I ordered a couple of replacement buckles with toggle nuts to replace the backstay and headstay ones, as they don't turn well any more, and one had a bend. I received them yesterday, and I got T bolts instead of toggle nuts. Ok, so I called Johnson today to verify that they're as strong as what I had with toggle nuts. No problem there, but in conversation it came up that my standing rigging is 1/8 wire with thimbles and 2 swaged ovals on each end of each cable. Was this standard? Johnson suggested getting rid of it and in fact suggested switching it all over to machine swaged ends because mine are not suitable for standing rigging. What is the consensus here?
-Gerry
participants (6)
-
carlos navarro -
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Conbert Benneck -
Dave Scobie -
Gerry Lempicki -
John Schinnerer