I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
Doug. How big are the lines? That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines. To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook). I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill. So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid). Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious... cheers, John On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Doug.
How big are the lines?
That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines.
To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook).
I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill.
So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid).
Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious...
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Doug.
How big are the lines?
That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Doug Just change them out... Use one hole and fresh drill the second. Fill the empty hole with Caulk. I like the cleats I use on the Montgomery 16 KatBote. Plenty big. See them in this short video https://youtu.be/Z6mWJqkiTE4 Later Bob Montgomery boats 949-489-8227 Sent from my iPad On Jul 11, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com<mailto:scoobscobie@gmail.com>> wrote: Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com<http://m17-375.com> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net<mailto:john@eco-living.net>> wrote: FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines. To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook). I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill. So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid). Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious... cheers, John On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: Doug. How big are the lines? That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com<http://m17-375.com> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com<mailto:doug9326@gmail.com>> wrote: I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net<mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <IMG_20180711_133013489_HDR-800x600.jpg> <IMG_20180711_133021696-600x800.jpg>
Those are like mine and I don't like them. Looking for good substitute but not those shiny chrome things. Sent from BlueMail On Jul 11, 2018, 2:40 PM, at 2:40 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines.
To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook).
I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill.
So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid).
Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious...
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Doug.
How big are the lines?
That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Good replacement, though the holes don't line up, are 'Schaefer 6" Standard Open-Base Cleat for 5/8" Line' in black anodizing. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 4:50 PM Doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Those are like mine and I don't like them. Looking for good substitute but not those shiny chrome things.
Sent from BlueMail
On Jul 11, 2018, 2:40 PM, at 2:40 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines.
To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook).
I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill.
So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid).
Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious...
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Doug.
How big are the lines?
That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
FWIW the Sea-Dog nylon regular and heavy duty style cleats in that size range (6.5" and 6.25" respectively) are both within 1/16" of your existing hole centers (regular is 1/16" wider, heavy duty is 1/16" narrower). You would be able to cheat one hole sideways a tiny bit and not have to drill any all-new holes. Regular, w/dimension drawing: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/sd-043030-parent.htm Heavy duty, w/dimension drawing: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/sd-043340-parent.htm cheers, John On 07/11/2018 04:56 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Good replacement, though the holes don't line up, are 'Schaefer 6" Standard Open-Base Cleat for 5/8" Line' in black anodizing.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 4:50 PM Doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Those are like mine and I don't like them. Looking for good substitute but not those shiny chrome things.
Sent from BlueMail
On Jul 11, 2018, 2:40 PM, at 2:40 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines.
To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook).
I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill.
So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid).
Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious...
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Doug.
How big are the lines?
That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John: I'd be nervous using anything plastic for such an important boat part. My M17 has three cleats at the bow. A prior owner added them and they are reinforced plastic and I don't use them for anchoring or docking. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 5:40 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the Sea-Dog nylon regular and heavy duty style cleats in that size range (6.5" and 6.25" respectively) are both within 1/16" of your existing hole centers (regular is 1/16" wider, heavy duty is 1/16" narrower). You would be able to cheat one hole sideways a tiny bit and not have to drill any all-new holes.
Regular, w/dimension drawing: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/sd-043030-parent.htm
Heavy duty, w/dimension drawing: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/sd-043340-parent.htm
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 04:56 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Good replacement, though the holes don't line up, are 'Schaefer 6" Standard Open-Base Cleat for 5/8" Line' in black anodizing.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 4:50 PM Doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Those are like mine and I don't like them. Looking for good substitute but not those shiny chrome things.
Sent from BlueMail
On Jul 11, 2018, 2:40 PM, at 2:40 PM, Dave Scobie < scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines.
To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook).
I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill.
So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid).
Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious...
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Doug.
How big are the lines?
That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats > (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock > line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock > line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or > whatever one calls it. > I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it > with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new > holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the > center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 > 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat > that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much. > > >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I hear ya, and I agree I wouldn't anchor on one or use it for my primary bow/anchor/mooring cleat. My M17 has a stainless Herreshoff style bow cleat. I have thought about adding one each side and I would use the same type there. But for dock line cleats at the stern they are solid enough. I've seen them on enough similar size production boats anyhow. "Plastic" has a bad rap from olden days, but modern nylon cleats and other nylon fittings are really very rugged, proven for decades now. I had an Ensenada 20 with similar displacement and way more windage than my M17...the stern cleats were these 5" nylon ones and the only worry I ever had was that they were also too small for typical dock lines, they shoulda been 6"! Mainly I mention these because they will fit his existing holes, no need to fill & drill. If price & fit is not priority then go for aluminum for sure. cheers, John On 07/11/2018 05:46 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
John:
I'd be nervous using anything plastic for such an important boat part.
My M17 has three cleats at the bow. A prior owner added them and they are reinforced plastic and I don't use them for anchoring or docking.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 5:40 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the Sea-Dog nylon regular and heavy duty style cleats in that size range (6.5" and 6.25" respectively) are both within 1/16" of your existing hole centers (regular is 1/16" wider, heavy duty is 1/16" narrower). You would be able to cheat one hole sideways a tiny bit and not have to drill any all-new holes.
Regular, w/dimension drawing: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/sd-043030-parent.htm
Heavy duty, w/dimension drawing: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/sd-043340-parent.htm
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 04:56 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Good replacement, though the holes don't line up, are 'Schaefer 6" Standard Open-Base Cleat for 5/8" Line' in black anodizing.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 4:50 PM Doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
Those are like mine and I don't like them. Looking for good substitute but not those shiny chrome things.
Sent from BlueMail
On Jul 11, 2018, 2:40 PM, at 2:40 PM, Dave Scobie < scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines.
To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook).
I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill.
So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid).
Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious...
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: > Doug. > > How big are the lines? > > That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats >> (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock >> line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock >> line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or >> whatever one calls it. >> I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it >> with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new >> holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the >> center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 >> 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat >> that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much. >> >> >>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
The ones in your pix for halyards are same as on my '74 M17. Those are what I know as European style asymmetrical or jam cleats. Seen 'em on several international folkboats for same application. The stern cleats you have are different than mine, which are like this: http://www.apsltd.com/schaefer-four-hole-deck-cleats.html ...except they're only 5" not 6". 99% sure they're OEM because there are no old/filled holes or other evidence of past replacement, and the mounting screws are slotted (not philips) like all the other OEM screws on my boat. cheers, John S. On 07/11/2018 01:38 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines.
To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook).
I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill.
So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid).
Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious...
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Doug.
How big are the lines?
That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
They being 5" makes sense as the first cleats on Sage 17 #1 were 5" and I upsized to 6" on the prototype and production boats. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 5:35 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The ones in your pix for halyards are same as on my '74 M17. Those are what I know as European style asymmetrical or jam cleats. Seen 'em on several international folkboats for same application.
The stern cleats you have are different than mine, which are like this: http://www.apsltd.com/schaefer-four-hole-deck-cleats.html
...except they're only 5" not 6".
99% sure they're OEM because there are no old/filled holes or other evidence of past replacement, and the mounting screws are slotted (not philips) like all the other OEM screws on my boat.
cheers, John S.
On 07/11/2018 01:38 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Attached are photos of the cleats in my '83 M17. One phort shows cleat used on bow and stern and the second are on theadt for the harlyards (the mast cleats are jam type). These Jerry's design.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:22 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
FWIW the presumably OEM cleats on my '74 M17 are just about too small for the 3/8" diameter of pre-made dock lines.
To get the loop through the center is a bit of effort to start with, and then after looping over the cleat there's scarce room left for a second line to fit well (like a spring line, etc., or even a bungee cord hook).
I thought about changing cleats, but they're otherwise very nice aluminum cleats and I also want to minimize holes to fill.
So for now I'm "fixing" the problem by making myself some dock lines from 5/16" three-strand (because I can easily splice the loops myself compared to double-braid).
Maybe Jerry can explain the how-to for those custom cleats? Makes me curious...
cheers, John
On 07/11/2018 01:04 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Doug.
How big are the lines?
That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Dave- it's not one of mine- on my stern (and bow) cleats both ears were the same. Sounds like aftermarket stuff- don't blame me. Goddamit. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 1:04 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: cleats Doug. How big are the lines? That cleat is custom, meaning Jerry designed it. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:53 PM doug <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
I just bought a 1980 M-15 in excellent condition. But the stern cleats (2) are worthless. The design of them makes it impossible to loop a dock line around one. One side of the two ears is much too short and the dock line just slips off and is unable to grab hold of that ear or wing or whatever one calls it. I am hoping that someone other than me has had this problem and fixed it with new stern deck cleats. The problem is that I do not want to drill new holes and have had no luck finding any cleats with holes spaced at the center lines at 1 5/8” apart. That is the space between the two holes is 1 5/8” from center to center. Please let me know if you have found a cleat that fits those dimensions and works as a cleat should. Thanks very much.
participants (6)
-
Bob Eeg -
Dave Scobie -
doug -
Doug
-
jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org -
John Schinnerer