Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Yes, we knew racing wouldn't be a big thing for us and the traveler in the cockpit was a pain. The split backstay hardware has 2 holes in each side, I attached a short bridle to each side and connected them with the mainsheet sheet block. I use a bungee to keep it off the tiller down wind. Eldor Motu iti
Jerry: mid boom sheeting is much preferred. Please don't spoil a good sloop with end of boom sheeting. Let those infidels who want end of boom sheeting go buy a Precision. :-) Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
As a novice, I ask dumb questions from time to time and hopefully learn something. So here goes. What make end sheeting a bad thing??? Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Jerry: mid boom sheeting is much preferred.
Please don't spoil a good sloop with end of boom sheeting.
Let those infidels who want end of boom sheeting go buy a Precision. :-)
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
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Joe, In some cases it is a necessity where mid boom sheeting would interfere with a bimini, but for sheer performance on an essentially dinghy-like boat, there is nothing like having mid-boom sheeting. It allows greater control over the sail/boom position (nothing like taking all the parts in your hand and pulling the boom across during a gybe) and it makes for better tacking position, allowing the helmsman to face forward during a tack, watching where he's going. Additionally, the mainsheet is always at hand. Say you are on Stbd. The tiller is in you left hand and the mainsheet in your right. Jib sheets are right there too, so if you want to adjust one or the other, everything is at hand and you needn't take your hand off the tiller. With end of boom sheeting, you would need to sit with your right hand on the tiller and your left hand at the main sheet. To adjust the jib sheets, you need to swap hands around, losing time and efficiency. It makes for sloppy, unseamanlike sailing and in a small boat can actually increase the probability of a capsize (due to untimely crew response). Over the years, most designers of dinghy-like boats have recognized this and have at least run the mainsheet from the boom end fwd to terminate fwd of the helmsman. It's just common sense. Better to design a bimini around a good mainsheet system than vice versa. Imagine if steering wheel placement in an automobile were a lower priority than seating for socializing in a parking lot. One might end up with it in the trunk, out of the way. But we all recognize that such an arrangement would be detrimental to good operation of the car during its primary operation. Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
As a novice, I ask dumb questions from time to time and hopefully learn something. So here goes. What make end sheeting a bad thing??? Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Jerry: mid boom sheeting is much preferred.
Please don't spoil a good sloop with end of boom sheeting.
Let those infidels who want end of boom sheeting go buy a Precision. :-)
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Tod, Thanks so much for the education. It all makes sense. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:19 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Joe,
In some cases it is a necessity where mid boom sheeting would interfere with a bimini, but for sheer performance on an essentially dinghy-like boat, there is nothing like having mid-boom sheeting. It allows greater control over the sail/boom position (nothing like taking all the parts in your hand and pulling the boom across during a gybe) and it makes for better tacking position, allowing the helmsman to face forward during a tack, watching where he's going. Additionally, the mainsheet is always at hand. Say you are on Stbd. The tiller is in you left hand and the mainsheet in your right. Jib sheets are right there too, so if you want to adjust one or the other, everything is at hand and you needn't take your hand off the tiller. With end of boom sheeting, you would need to sit with your right hand on the tiller and your left hand at the main sheet. To adjust the jib sheets, you need to swap hands around, losing time and efficiency. It makes for sloppy, unseamanlike sailing and in a small boat can actually increase the probability of a capsize (due to untimely crew response). Over the years, most designers of dinghy-like boats have recognized this and have at least run the mainsheet from the boom end fwd to terminate fwd of the helmsman. It's just common sense. Better to design a bimini around a good mainsheet system than vice versa. Imagine if steering wheel placement in an automobile were a lower priority than seating for socializing in a parking lot. One might end up with it in the trunk, out of the way. But we all recognize that such an arrangement would be detrimental to good operation of the car during its primary operation.
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
As a novice, I ask dumb questions from time to time and hopefully learn something. So here goes. What make end sheeting a bad thing??? Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Jerry: mid boom sheeting is much preferred.
Please don't spoil a good sloop with end of boom sheeting.
Let those infidels who want end of boom sheeting go buy a Precision. :-)
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Whatever the advantages of midboom sheeting, I have to say that in my m-15 with a passenger who doesn't want to handle the main and jib, legs get in the way of free access to uncleating the main and I have to be careful to keep the main sheet accessible in case a puff comes along. I am considering putting a block and cam on the stern traveler line, leading the sheet through a block, up and then forward to end where the cam is now on companionway so that there are no people between me and the sheet and I don't risk losing the sheet in higher winds. In other words replace the block on the traveler with a block and cam. Any thoughts on such a plan? mike ________________________________ From: Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:41:30 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports Tod, Thanks so much for the education. It all makes sense. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:19 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Joe,
In some cases it is a necessity where mid boom sheeting would interfere with a bimini, but for sheer performance on an essentially dinghy-like boat, there is nothing like having mid-boom sheeting. It allows greater control over the sail/boom position (nothing like taking all the parts in your hand and pulling the boom across during a gybe) and it makes for better tacking position, allowing the helmsman to face forward during a tack, watching where he's going. Additionally, the mainsheet is always at hand. Say you are on Stbd. The tiller is in you left hand and the mainsheet in your right. Jib sheets are right there too, so if you want to adjust one or the other, everything is at hand and you needn't take your hand off the tiller. With end of boom sheeting, you would need to sit with your right hand on the tiller and your left hand at the main sheet. To adjust the jib sheets, you need to swap hands around, losing time and efficiency. It makes for sloppy, unseamanlike sailing and in a small boat can actually increase the probability of a capsize (due to untimely crew response). Over the years, most designers of dinghy-like boats have recognized this and have at least run the mainsheet from the boom end fwd to terminate fwd of the helmsman. It's just common sense. Better to design a bimini around a good mainsheet system than vice versa. Imagine if steering wheel placement in an automobile were a lower priority than seating for socializing in a parking lot. One might end up with it in the trunk, out of the way. But we all recognize that such an arrangement would be detrimental to good operation of the car during its primary operation.
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
As a novice, I ask dumb questions from time to time and hopefully learn something. So here goes. What make end sheeting a bad thing??? Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Jerry: mid boom sheeting is much preferred.
Please don't spoil a good sloop with end of boom sheeting.
Let those infidels who want end of boom sheeting go buy a Precision. :-)
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.49/2294 - Release Date: 08/13/09 06:11:00
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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That may well prove to be the lesser of two evils if you routinely sail with clueless non sailors who aren't willing to move their legs even after you've explained the need to them. The 15 does make for some intimacy if there is more than one in the cockpit. The 17, with its longer cockpit, does work better with such passengers.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of mrh219@yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:32 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Whatever the advantages of midboom sheeting, I have to say that in my m-15 with a passenger who doesn't want to handle the main and jib, legs get in the way of free access to uncleating the main and I have to be careful to keep the main sheet accessible in case a puff comes along. I am considering putting a block and cam on the stern traveler line, leading the sheet through a block, up and then forward to end where the cam is now on companionway so that there are no people between me and the sheet and I don't risk losing the sheet in higher winds. In other words replace the block on the traveler with a block and cam. Any thoughts on such a plan? mike
________________________________ From: Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:41:30 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Tod, Thanks so much for the education. It all makes sense. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:19 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Joe,
In some cases it is a necessity where mid boom sheeting would interfere with a bimini, but for sheer performance on an essentially dinghy-like boat, there is nothing like having mid-boom sheeting. It allows greater control over the sail/boom position (nothing like taking all the parts in your hand and pulling the boom across during a gybe) and it makes for better tacking position, allowing the helmsman to face forward during a tack, watching where he's going. Additionally, the mainsheet is always at hand. Say you are on Stbd. The tiller is in you left hand and the mainsheet in your right. Jib sheets are right there too, so if you want to adjust one or the other, everything is at hand and you needn't take your hand off the tiller. With end of boom sheeting, you would need to sit with your right hand on the tiller and your left hand at the main sheet. To adjust the jib sheets, you need to swap hands around, losing time and efficiency. It makes for sloppy, unseamanlike sailing and in a small boat can actually increase the probability of a capsize (due to untimely crew response). Over the years, most designers of dinghy-like boats have recognized this and have at least run the mainsheet from the boom end fwd to terminate fwd of the helmsman. It's just common sense. Better to design a bimini around a good mainsheet system than vice versa. Imagine if steering wheel placement in an automobile were a lower priority than seating for socializing in a parking lot. One might end up with it in the trunk, out of the way. But we all recognize that such an arrangement would be detrimental to good operation of the car during its primary operation.
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
As a novice, I ask dumb questions from time to time and hopefully learn something. So here goes. What make end sheeting a bad thing??? Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Jerry: mid boom sheeting is much preferred.
Please don't spoil a good sloop with end of boom sheeting.
Let those infidels who want end of boom sheeting go buy a Precision. :-)
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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If I'm into a bout of short tacking and they are in the way, I like to seat them on the beer cooler inside the cabin. That goes over better if you tell them their job is to hand out beer, starting with themselves. If I've got a cockpit full of experienced sailors who are running the boat, I do the same thing. I go below to get out of the way.........and get a head start on the beer. howard On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:02 PM, <htmills@zoominternet.net> wrote:
That may well prove to be the lesser of two evils if you routinely sail with clueless non sailors who aren't willing to move their legs even after you've explained the need to them.
The 15 does make for some intimacy if there is more than one in the cockpit.
The 17, with its longer cockpit, does work better with such passengers.
LOL....always the diplomat, Howard!
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Howard Audsley Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:25 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
If I'm into a bout of short tacking and they are in the way, I like to seat them on the beer cooler inside the cabin. That goes over better if you tell them their job is to hand out beer, starting with themselves.
If I've got a cockpit full of experienced sailors who are running the boat, I do the same thing. I go below to get out of the way.........and get a head start on the beer.
howard
On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:02 PM, <htmills@zoominternet.net> wrote:
That may well prove to be the lesser of two evils if you routinely sail with clueless non sailors who aren't willing to move their legs even after you've explained the need to them.
The 15 does make for some intimacy if there is more than one in the cockpit.
The 17, with its longer cockpit, does work better with such passengers.
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I wouldn't change the M15 main sheet arrangement. It's certainly ideal for single handed sailing, which in my humble opinion, is the M15's strongest point. t
Very well written, Tod, and absolutely right! All of you, you don't know what a luxury it is to design a boat and to know ahead what you want. Obviously we can't please everybody, but we try, and i especially like it when plenty of you see things as I do! I'll try to find the time soon, maybe this weekend, to tell you a bit more of what this boat's about. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:19 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Joe,
In some cases it is a necessity where mid boom sheeting would interfere with a bimini, but for sheer performance on an essentially dinghy-like boat, there is nothing like having mid-boom sheeting. It allows greater control over the sail/boom position (nothing like taking all the parts in your hand and pulling the boom across during a gybe) and it makes for better tacking position, allowing the helmsman to face forward during a tack, watching where he's going. Additionally, the mainsheet is always at hand. Say you are on Stbd. The tiller is in you left hand and the mainsheet in your right. Jib sheets are right there too, so if you want to adjust one or the other, everything is at hand and you needn't take your hand off the tiller. With end of boom sheeting, you would need to sit with your right hand on the tiller and your left hand at the main sheet. To adjust the jib sheets, you need to swap hands around, losing time and efficiency. It makes for sloppy, unseamanlike sailing and in a small boat can actually increase the probability of a capsize (due to untimely crew response). Over the years, most designers of dinghy-like boats have recognized this and have at least run the mainsheet from the boom end fwd to terminate fwd of the helmsman. It's just common sense. Better to design a bimini around a good mainsheet system than vice versa. Imagine if steering wheel placement in an automobile were a lower priority than seating for socializing in a parking lot. One might end up with it in the trunk, out of the way. But we all recognize that such an arrangement would be detrimental to good operation of the car during its primary operation.
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
As a novice, I ask dumb questions from time to time and hopefully learn something. So here goes. What make end sheeting a bad thing??? Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research and leaky ports
Jerry: mid boom sheeting is much preferred.
Please don't spoil a good sloop with end of boom sheeting.
Let those infidels who want end of boom sheeting go buy a Precision. :-)
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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participants (7)
-
eisenee＠aol.com -
Howard Audsley -
htmills＠zoominternet.net -
jerry -
Joe Murphy -
mrh219＠yahoo.com -
Tom Smith