I sail an M17 without flotation. I close the boat up and dog down hatches in heavy weather. My boat will come back up and I think an M15 would too. Keep the water out! I thought about making the entire v berth bilge area a flotation chamber by sealing it off from the cabin and installing water tight hatch covers. At least it would float bow up in case of a swamping. On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: floatation foam (msminchome@aol.com) 2. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 3. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Mark Dvorscak) 5. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Michael Mann) 6. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 7. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:32:31 -0400 From: msminchome@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam Message-ID: <165cf4550ac-1ebc-e2a@webjas-vae245.srv.aolmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have filled the locker under the v berth of my M15 with empty 2 liter coke bottles. I have also installed latches on the cockpit lockers and they are always latched and secured with a snap lock. I have the factory installed foam under the cockpit. When the weather gets rough, I put my hatchboards in place and secure them with the latch. My thinking is the air in the cabin will keep the boat afloat long enough for me to get on the keel and right the boat. I also sail my M15 as if I were sailing a dinghy, one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. I am normally in areas where there are no other boats and miles from land. I always wear a PFD have a PLB on a tether in my pocket and recently added a PFD with harness and a short tether to keep me onboard. If the boat floats, great. If not, I am still going to probably survive until the Coast Guard arrives.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Steve Trapp < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I disagree, having been a past volunteer on Harbor Patrol and having had to haul dead bodies out of boats that did not float, I would not take my M-15 out of the boat slip with adequate floatation from foam blocks or other flotation. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: M
onday, September 10, 2018 2:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Tyler (and others following along):
foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only
A boat such as a M15 is under no legal requirement to have positive flotation.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 1:52 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I assume the foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only, but are not intended to *actually* be left in place or else they would be permanently fastened to the hull. Wouldn't free chunks of foam just float out the companionway if the boat were swamped, instead of actually floating it?
To make an M15 actually buoyant with less weight, I'd think inflatable buoyancy bags as used on dinghies would work better. If you get a big one and inflate it after putting it in a compartment it can't come out, plus it will weigh a lot less than foam. You could also strap down the bags (or foam) w/ nylon straps, to keep them attached to the boat.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Bonnie Kostka" <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:26:43 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Bonnie.
You need to call around to local plastic supply places to see whom will sell you a large block of polystyrene. You then cut this up to small pieces and put them under vberth. larger blocks under cockpit.
Take out your stinky foam to figure volume needed for new.
Online may also work but shipping is an issue - I bet shipping more than the foam!
Another option is to fill area with pool noodles. With shipping for a polystyrene block this method may be cheaper
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 9:19 AM Bonnie Kostka <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does anyone know where you would buy replacement foam & what size or amout of foam to buy? Moonbeam (M15)Bonnie Kostka
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <2013420602.4429780.1536787910957@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.???
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.???
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:43:20 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <03ccb71f-6a2e-6a1b-dc74-3fd53a74011f@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Yeah, the drawdown info is on the Portland district Corps info page, this news item:
http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/news/article/Article/1621438/fern-ridge-reserv...
They are slowly increasing outflows. Will still be around 370 ft. elev. end of my visit which means 5+ feet in the marina and 5 ft deep at toe (bottom end) of Richardson ramp...plenty for M-17 needs!
Hope to see you there, cheers, John S.
On 09/12/2018 02:31 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 20:19:07 -0700 From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: < CAA3iV0+yJ1M6B1iODLJyAge6NwWH-1X3_+pXNbTkWyDezB+sXQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:26:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <484891698.4601038.1536812785948@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 187, Issue 10 *************************************************
On 10/29/2018 11:09 PM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
I thought about making the entire v berth bilge area a flotation chamber by sealing it off from the cabin and installing water tight hatch covers. At least it would float bow up in case of a swamping.
Interesting...did you play with the math? We'd need about 190 gallons of flotation to avoid going down...1600 lbs/8.3lbs/gal (weight of water). Or in more visual terms, a 55 gal drum x 8.3 lbs/gal = ~450 lbs flotation per drum. Monty 17 empty, 1500-1600 lbs so we'd need about 3 1/2 55-gal drums of air to float it. Would be a bit complex but one could calculate volume under the v-berth and compare. And yeah, if very little water can get in, hopefully the boat comes up un-swamped. But if a hole gets busted through below water line...that's a different case. Would need to have some kind of compact deployable flotation (e.g. canister life raft or similar) with > Monty 17 + gear displacement. cheers, John S.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: floatation foam (msminchome@aol.com) 2. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 3. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Mark Dvorscak) 5. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Michael Mann) 6. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 7. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:32:31 -0400 From: msminchome@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam Message-ID: <165cf4550ac-1ebc-e2a@webjas-vae245.srv.aolmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have filled the locker under the v berth of my M15 with empty 2 liter coke bottles. I have also installed latches on the cockpit lockers and they are always latched and secured with a snap lock. I have the factory installed foam under the cockpit. When the weather gets rough, I put my hatchboards in place and secure them with the latch. My thinking is the air in the cabin will keep the boat afloat long enough for me to get on the keel and right the boat. I also sail my M15 as if I were sailing a dinghy, one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. I am normally in areas where there are no other boats and miles from land. I always wear a PFD have a PLB on a tether in my pocket and recently added a PFD with harness and a short tether to keep me onboard. If the boat floats, great. If not, I am still going to probably survive until the Coast Guard arrives.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Steve Trapp < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I disagree, having been a past volunteer on Harbor Patrol and having had to haul dead bodies out of boats that did not float, I would not take my M-15 out of the boat slip with adequate floatation from foam blocks or other flotation. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: M
onday, September 10, 2018 2:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Tyler (and others following along):
foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only
A boat such as a M15 is under no legal requirement to have positive flotation.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 1:52 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I assume the foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only, but are not intended to *actually* be left in place or else they would be permanently fastened to the hull. Wouldn't free chunks of foam just float out the companionway if the boat were swamped, instead of actually floating it?
To make an M15 actually buoyant with less weight, I'd think inflatable buoyancy bags as used on dinghies would work better. If you get a big one and inflate it after putting it in a compartment it can't come out, plus it will weigh a lot less than foam. You could also strap down the bags (or foam) w/ nylon straps, to keep them attached to the boat.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Bonnie Kostka" <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:26:43 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Bonnie.
You need to call around to local plastic supply places to see whom will sell you a large block of polystyrene. You then cut this up to small pieces and put them under vberth. larger blocks under cockpit.
Take out your stinky foam to figure volume needed for new.
Online may also work but shipping is an issue - I bet shipping more than the foam!
Another option is to fill area with pool noodles. With shipping for a polystyrene block this method may be cheaper
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 9:19 AM Bonnie Kostka <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does anyone know where you would buy replacement foam & what size or amout of foam to buy? Moonbeam (M15)Bonnie Kostka
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <2013420602.4429780.1536787910957@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.???
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.???
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:43:20 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <03ccb71f-6a2e-6a1b-dc74-3fd53a74011f@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Yeah, the drawdown info is on the Portland district Corps info page, this news item:
http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/news/article/Article/1621438/fern-ridge-reserv...
They are slowly increasing outflows. Will still be around 370 ft. elev. end of my visit which means 5+ feet in the marina and 5 ft deep at toe (bottom end) of Richardson ramp...plenty for M-17 needs!
Hope to see you there, cheers, John S.
On 09/12/2018 02:31 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 20:19:07 -0700 From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: < CAA3iV0+yJ1M6B1iODLJyAge6NwWH-1X3_+pXNbTkWyDezB+sXQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:26:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <484891698.4601038.1536812785948@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 187, Issue 10 *************************************************
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I believe you calculate required flotation based on the specific gravity of the boat vs that of water. Required flotation would be much less than the weight.of the boat. I am sure some one has done.this calculation for the M17 and M15 Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Thursday, September 13, 2018 John Schinnerer <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: On 10/29/2018 11:09 PM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
I thought about making the entire v berth bilge area a flotation chamber by sealing it off from the cabin and installing water tight hatch covers. At least it would float bow up in case of a swamping.
Interesting...did you play with the math? We'd need about 190 gallons of flotation to avoid going down...1600 lbs/8.3lbs/gal (weight of water). Or in more visual terms, a 55 gal drum x 8.3 lbs/gal = ~450 lbs flotation per drum. Monty 17 empty, 1500-1600 lbs so we'd need about 3 1/2 55-gal drums of air to float it. Would be a bit complex but one could calculate volume under the v-berth and compare. And yeah, if very little water can get in, hopefully the boat comes up un-swamped. But if a hole gets busted through below water line...that's a different case. Would need to have some kind of compact deployable flotation (e.g. canister life raft or similar) with > Monty 17 + gear displacement. cheers, John S.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: floatation foam (msminchome@aol.com) 2. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 3. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Mark Dvorscak) 5. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Michael Mann) 6. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 7. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:32:31 -0400 From: msminchome@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam Message-ID: <165cf4550ac-1ebc-e2a@webjas-vae245.srv.aolmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have filled the locker under the v berth of my M15 with empty 2 liter coke bottles. I have also installed latches on the cockpit lockers and they are always latched and secured with a snap lock. I have the factory installed foam under the cockpit. When the weather gets rough, I put my hatchboards in place and secure them with the latch. My thinking is the air in the cabin will keep the boat afloat long enough for me to get on the keel and right the boat. I also sail my M15 as if I were sailing a dinghy, one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. I am normally in areas where there are no other boats and miles from land. I always wear a PFD have a PLB on a tether in my pocket and recently added a PFD with harness and a short tether to keep me onboard. If the boat floats, great. If not, I am still going to probably survive until the Coast Guard arrives.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Steve Trapp < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I disagree, having been a past volunteer on Harbor Patrol and having had to haul dead bodies out of boats that did not float, I would not take my M-15 out of the boat slip with adequate floatation from foam blocks or other flotation. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: M
onday, September 10, 2018 2:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Tyler (and others following along):
foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only
A boat such as a M15 is under no legal requirement to have positive flotation.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 1:52 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I assume the foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only, but are not intended to *actually* be left in place or else they would be permanently fastened to the hull. Wouldn't free chunks of foam just float out the companionway if the boat were swamped, instead of actually floating it?
To make an M15 actually buoyant with less weight, I'd think inflatable buoyancy bags as used on dinghies would work better. If you get a big one and inflate it after putting it in a compartment it can't come out, plus it will weigh a lot less than foam. You could also strap down the bags (or foam) w/ nylon straps, to keep them attached to the boat.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Bonnie Kostka" <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:26:43 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Bonnie.
You need to call around to local plastic supply places to see whom will sell you a large block of polystyrene. You then cut this up to small pieces and put them under vberth. larger blocks under cockpit.
Take out your stinky foam to figure volume needed for new.
Online may also work but shipping is an issue - I bet shipping more than the foam!
Another option is to fill area with pool noodles. With shipping for a polystyrene block this method may be cheaper
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 9:19 AM Bonnie Kostka <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does anyone know where you would buy replacement foam & what size or amout of foam to buy? Moonbeam (M15)Bonnie Kostka
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <2013420602.4429780.1536787910957@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.???
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.???
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:43:20 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <03ccb71f-6a2e-6a1b-dc74-3fd53a74011f@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Yeah, the drawdown info is on the Portland district Corps info page, this news item:
http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/news/article/Article/1621438/fern-ridge-reserv...
They are slowly increasing outflows. Will still be around 370 ft. elev. end of my visit which means 5+ feet in the marina and 5 ft deep at toe (bottom end) of Richardson ramp...plenty for M-17 needs!
Hope to see you there, cheers, John S.
On 09/12/2018 02:31 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 20:19:07 -0700 From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: < CAA3iV0+yJ1M6B1iODLJyAge6NwWH-1X3_+pXNbTkWyDezB+sXQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:26:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <484891698.4601038.1536812785948@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
------------------------------
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 187, Issue 10 *************************************************
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yes, to get a more exact figure, for sure. But there's not a lot of anything with specific gravity less than 1.0 (water) in an M17, not mine anyhow (1974). The foam stiffeners under cockpit seats & floor. Some of the half-tube hull or v-berth stiffeners (the ones sealed at the ends). Whatever PFDs I have stowed where they won't just float away. That's about it - water will fill everywhere else and the rest of the boat material (metal, fiberglass, a bit of teak) is heavier than water and doesn't displace much volume of water. So I'm just ballparking it on approximate weight of boat, as a thought experiment...I think someone posted long ago (Jerry, or Dave?) that positive flotation in an M17 is not really viable, I imagine because the boat is no longer a viable pocket cruiser with that much storage & cabin space full of foam... cheers, John S. On 09/13/2018 11:44 AM, msminchome--- via montgomery_boats wrote:
I believe you calculate required flotation based on the specific gravity of the boat vs that of water. Required flotation would be much less than the weight.of the boat. I am sure some one has done.this calculation for the M17 and M15
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, September 13, 2018 John Schinnerer <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: On 10/29/2018 11:09 PM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
I thought about making the entire v berth bilge area a flotation chamber by sealing it off from the cabin and installing water tight hatch covers. At least it would float bow up in case of a swamping.
Interesting...did you play with the math?
We'd need about 190 gallons of flotation to avoid going down...1600 lbs/8.3lbs/gal (weight of water).
Or in more visual terms, a 55 gal drum x 8.3 lbs/gal = ~450 lbs flotation per drum.
Monty 17 empty, 1500-1600 lbs so we'd need about 3 1/2 55-gal drums of air to float it.
Would be a bit complex but one could calculate volume under the v-berth and compare.
And yeah, if very little water can get in, hopefully the boat comes up un-swamped.
But if a hole gets busted through below water line...that's a different case. Would need to have some kind of compact deployable flotation (e.g. canister life raft or similar) with > Monty 17 + gear displacement.
cheers, John S.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: floatation foam (msminchome@aol.com) 2. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 3. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Mark Dvorscak) 5. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Michael Mann) 6. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 7. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:32:31 -0400 From: msminchome@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam Message-ID: <165cf4550ac-1ebc-e2a@webjas-vae245.srv.aolmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have filled the locker under the v berth of my M15 with empty 2 liter coke bottles. I have also installed latches on the cockpit lockers and they are always latched and secured with a snap lock. I have the factory installed foam under the cockpit. When the weather gets rough, I put my hatchboards in place and secure them with the latch. My thinking is the air in the cabin will keep the boat afloat long enough for me to get on the keel and right the boat. I also sail my M15 as if I were sailing a dinghy, one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. I am normally in areas where there are no other boats and miles from land. I always wear a PFD have a PLB on a tether in my pocket and recently added a PFD with harness and a short tether to keep me onboard. If the boat floats, great. If not, I am still going to probably survive until the Coast Guard arrives.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Steve Trapp < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I disagree, having been a past volunteer on Harbor Patrol and having had to haul dead bodies out of boats that did not float, I would not take my M-15 out of the boat slip with adequate floatation from foam blocks or other flotation. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: M
onday, September 10, 2018 2:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Tyler (and others following along):
foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only
A boat such as a M15 is under no legal requirement to have positive flotation.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 1:52 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I assume the foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only, but are not intended to *actually* be left in place or else they would be permanently fastened to the hull. Wouldn't free chunks of foam just float out the companionway if the boat were swamped, instead of actually floating it?
To make an M15 actually buoyant with less weight, I'd think inflatable buoyancy bags as used on dinghies would work better. If you get a big one and inflate it after putting it in a compartment it can't come out, plus it will weigh a lot less than foam. You could also strap down the bags (or foam) w/ nylon straps, to keep them attached to the boat.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Bonnie Kostka" <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:26:43 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Bonnie.
You need to call around to local plastic supply places to see whom will sell you a large block of polystyrene. You then cut this up to small pieces and put them under vberth. larger blocks under cockpit.
Take out your stinky foam to figure volume needed for new.
Online may also work but shipping is an issue - I bet shipping more than the foam!
Another option is to fill area with pool noodles. With shipping for a polystyrene block this method may be cheaper
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 9:19 AM Bonnie Kostka <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does anyone know where you would buy replacement foam & what size or amout of foam to buy? Moonbeam (M15)Bonnie Kostka
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <2013420602.4429780.1536787910957@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.???
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.???
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:43:20 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <03ccb71f-6a2e-6a1b-dc74-3fd53a74011f@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Yeah, the drawdown info is on the Portland district Corps info page, this news item:
http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/news/article/Article/1621438/fern-ridge-reserv...
They are slowly increasing outflows. Will still be around 370 ft. elev. end of my visit which means 5+ feet in the marina and 5 ft deep at toe (bottom end) of Richardson ramp...plenty for M-17 needs!
Hope to see you there, cheers, John S.
On 09/12/2018 02:31 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 20:19:07 -0700 From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: < CAA3iV0+yJ1M6B1iODLJyAge6NwWH-1X3_+pXNbTkWyDezB+sXQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:26:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <484891698.4601038.1536812785948@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
------------------------------
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 187, Issue 10 *************************************************
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Including the balsa core, so the deck and interior liner would float on their own. -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 12:07 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Flotation Yes, to get a more exact figure, for sure. But there's not a lot of anything with specific gravity less than 1.0 (water) in an M17, not mine anyhow (1974). The foam stiffeners under cockpit seats & floor. Some of the half-tube hull or v-berth stiffeners (the ones sealed at the ends). Whatever PFDs I have stowed where they won't just float away. That's about it - water will fill everywhere else and the rest of the boat material (metal, fiberglass, a bit of teak) is heavier than water and doesn't displace much volume of water. So I'm just ballparking it on approximate weight of boat, as a thought experiment...I think someone posted long ago (Jerry, or Dave?) that positive flotation in an M17 is not really viable, I imagine because the boat is no longer a viable pocket cruiser with that much storage & cabin space full of foam... cheers, John S. On 09/13/2018 11:44 AM, msminchome--- via montgomery_boats wrote:
I believe you calculate required flotation based on the specific gravity of the boat vs that of water. Required flotation would be much less than the weight.of the boat. I am sure some one has done.this calculation for the M17 and M15
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, September 13, 2018 John Schinnerer <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: On 10/29/2018 11:09 PM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
I thought about making the entire v berth bilge area a flotation chamber by sealing it off from the cabin and installing water tight hatch covers. At least it would float bow up in case of a swamping.
Interesting...did you play with the math?
We'd need about 190 gallons of flotation to avoid going down...1600 lbs/8.3lbs/gal (weight of water).
Or in more visual terms, a 55 gal drum x 8.3 lbs/gal = ~450 lbs flotation per drum.
Monty 17 empty, 1500-1600 lbs so we'd need about 3 1/2 55-gal drums of air to float it.
Would be a bit complex but one could calculate volume under the v-berth and compare.
And yeah, if very little water can get in, hopefully the boat comes up un-swamped.
But if a hole gets busted through below water line...that's a different case. Would need to have some kind of compact deployable flotation (e.g. canister life raft or similar) with > Monty 17 + gear displacement.
cheers, John S.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: floatation foam (msminchome@aol.com) 2. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 3. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Mark Dvorscak) 5. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Michael Mann) 6. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 7. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:32:31 -0400 From: msminchome@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam Message-ID: <165cf4550ac-1ebc-e2a@webjas-vae245.srv.aolmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have filled the locker under the v berth of my M15 with empty 2 liter coke bottles. I have also installed latches on the cockpit lockers and they are always latched and secured with a snap lock. I have the factory installed foam under the cockpit. When the weather gets rough, I put my hatchboards in place and secure them with the latch. My thinking is the air in the cabin will keep the boat afloat long enough for me to get on the keel and right the boat. I also sail my M15 as if I were sailing a dinghy, one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. I am normally in areas where there are no other boats and miles from land. I always wear a PFD have a PLB on a tether in my pocket and recently added a PFD with harness and a short tether to keep me onboard. If the boat floats, great. If not, I am still going to probably survive until the Coast Guard arrives.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Steve Trapp < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I disagree, having been a past volunteer on Harbor Patrol and having had to haul dead bodies out of boats that did not float, I would not take my M-15 out of the boat slip with adequate floatation from foam blocks or other flotation. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: M
onday, September 10, 2018 2:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Tyler (and others following along):
foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only
A boat such as a M15 is under no legal requirement to have positive flotation.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 1:52 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I assume the foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only, but are not intended to *actually* be left in place or else they would be permanently fastened to the hull. Wouldn't free chunks of foam just float out the companionway if the boat were swamped, instead of actually floating it?
To make an M15 actually buoyant with less weight, I'd think inflatable buoyancy bags as used on dinghies would work better. If you get a big one and inflate it after putting it in a compartment it can't come out, plus it will weigh a lot less than foam. You could also strap down the bags (or foam) w/ nylon straps, to keep them attached to the boat.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Bonnie Kostka" <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:26:43 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Bonnie.
You need to call around to local plastic supply places to see whom will sell you a large block of polystyrene. You then cut this up to small pieces and put them under vberth. larger blocks under cockpit.
Take out your stinky foam to figure volume needed for new.
Online may also work but shipping is an issue - I bet shipping more than the foam!
Another option is to fill area with pool noodles. With shipping for a polystyrene block this method may be cheaper
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 9:19 AM Bonnie Kostka <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does anyone know where you would buy replacement foam & what size or amout of foam to buy? Moonbeam (M15)Bonnie Kostka
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <2013420602.4429780.1536787910957@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.???
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.???
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:43:20 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <03ccb71f-6a2e-6a1b-dc74-3fd53a74011f@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Yeah, the drawdown info is on the Portland district Corps info page, this news item:
http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/news/article/Article/1621438/fern-ridge-reserv...
They are slowly increasing outflows. Will still be around 370 ft. elev. end of my visit which means 5+ feet in the marina and 5 ft deep at toe (bottom end) of Richardson ramp...plenty for M-17 needs!
Hope to see you there, cheers, John S.
On 09/12/2018 02:31 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 20:19:07 -0700 From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: < CAA3iV0+yJ1M6B1iODLJyAge6NwWH-1X3_+pXNbTkWyDezB+sXQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:26:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <484891698.4601038.1536812785948@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 187, Issue 10 *************************************************
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
That must be second-generation M17s...? Mine (#38, 1974) has no balsa core in the deck; the cockpit floor & seat stiffeners are foam. Cabin top and foredeck stiffeners are glassed half-tubes, likewise the v-berth stiffeners. In the cabin roof, one fore and one aft of shroud chainplates. cheers, John S. On 09/13/2018 12:16 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
Including the balsa core, so the deck and interior liner would float on their own.
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 12:07 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Flotation
Yes, to get a more exact figure, for sure. But there's not a lot of anything with specific gravity less than 1.0 (water) in an M17, not mine anyhow (1974). The foam stiffeners under cockpit seats & floor. Some of the half-tube hull or v-berth stiffeners (the ones sealed at the ends). Whatever PFDs I have stowed where they won't just float away. That's about it - water will fill everywhere else and the rest of the boat material (metal, fiberglass, a bit of teak) is heavier than water and doesn't displace much volume of water. So I'm just ballparking it on approximate weight of boat, as a thought experiment...I think someone posted long ago (Jerry, or Dave?) that positive flotation in an M17 is not really viable, I imagine because the boat is no longer a viable pocket cruiser with that much storage & cabin space full of foam...
cheers, John S.
On 09/13/2018 11:44 AM, msminchome--- via montgomery_boats wrote:
I believe you calculate required flotation based on the specific gravity of the boat vs that of water. Required flotation would be much less than the weight.of the boat. I am sure some one has done.this calculation for the M17 and M15
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Thursday, September 13, 2018 John Schinnerer <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: On 10/29/2018 11:09 PM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
I thought about making the entire v berth bilge area a flotation chamber by sealing it off from the cabin and installing water tight hatch covers. At least it would float bow up in case of a swamping.
Interesting...did you play with the math?
We'd need about 190 gallons of flotation to avoid going down...1600 lbs/8.3lbs/gal (weight of water).
Or in more visual terms, a 55 gal drum x 8.3 lbs/gal = ~450 lbs flotation per drum.
Monty 17 empty, 1500-1600 lbs so we'd need about 3 1/2 55-gal drums of air to float it.
Would be a bit complex but one could calculate volume under the v-berth and compare.
And yeah, if very little water can get in, hopefully the boat comes up un-swamped.
But if a hole gets busted through below water line...that's a different case. Would need to have some kind of compact deployable flotation (e.g. canister life raft or similar) with > Monty 17 + gear displacement.
cheers, John S.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: floatation foam (msminchome@aol.com) 2. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 3. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Mark Dvorscak) 5. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Michael Mann) 6. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 7. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:32:31 -0400 From: msminchome@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam Message-ID: <165cf4550ac-1ebc-e2a@webjas-vae245.srv.aolmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have filled the locker under the v berth of my M15 with empty 2 liter coke bottles. I have also installed latches on the cockpit lockers and they are always latched and secured with a snap lock. I have the factory installed foam under the cockpit. When the weather gets rough, I put my hatchboards in place and secure them with the latch. My thinking is the air in the cabin will keep the boat afloat long enough for me to get on the keel and right the boat. I also sail my M15 as if I were sailing a dinghy, one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. I am normally in areas where there are no other boats and miles from land. I always wear a PFD have a PLB on a tether in my pocket and recently added a PFD with harness and a short tether to keep me onboard. If the boat floats, great. If not, I am still going to probably survive until the Coast Guard arrives.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Steve Trapp < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I disagree, having been a past volunteer on Harbor Patrol and having had to haul dead bodies out of boats that did not float, I would not take my M-15 out of the boat slip with adequate floatation from foam blocks or other flotation. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: M
onday, September 10, 2018 2:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Tyler (and others following along):
foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only
A boat such as a M15 is under no legal requirement to have positive flotation.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 1:52 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I assume the foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only, but are not intended to *actually* be left in place or else they would be permanently fastened to the hull. Wouldn't free chunks of foam just float out the companionway if the boat were swamped, instead of actually floating it?
To make an M15 actually buoyant with less weight, I'd think inflatable buoyancy bags as used on dinghies would work better. If you get a big one and inflate it after putting it in a compartment it can't come out, plus it will weigh a lot less than foam. You could also strap down the bags (or foam) w/ nylon straps, to keep them attached to the boat.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Bonnie Kostka" <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:26:43 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Bonnie.
You need to call around to local plastic supply places to see whom will sell you a large block of polystyrene. You then cut this up to small pieces and put them under vberth. larger blocks under cockpit.
Take out your stinky foam to figure volume needed for new.
Online may also work but shipping is an issue - I bet shipping more than the foam!
Another option is to fill area with pool noodles. With shipping for a polystyrene block this method may be cheaper
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 9:19 AM Bonnie Kostka <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does anyone know where you would buy replacement foam & what size or amout of foam to buy? Moonbeam (M15)Bonnie Kostka
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <2013420602.4429780.1536787910957@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.???
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.???
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:43:20 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <03ccb71f-6a2e-6a1b-dc74-3fd53a74011f@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Yeah, the drawdown info is on the Portland district Corps info page, this news item:
http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/news/article/Article/1621438/fern-ridge-reserv...
They are slowly increasing outflows. Will still be around 370 ft. elev. end of my visit which means 5+ feet in the marina and 5 ft deep at toe (bottom end) of Richardson ramp...plenty for M-17 needs!
Hope to see you there, cheers, John S.
On 09/12/2018 02:31 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 20:19:07 -0700 From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: < CAA3iV0+yJ1M6B1iODLJyAge6NwWH-1X3_+pXNbTkWyDezB+sXQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:26:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <484891698.4601038.1536812785948@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 187, Issue 10 *************************************************
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I always used half the weight of the boat. Water weighs 62.4 lbs per cu ft; steel is about 450. lead 750. and I don't remember for sure but I think frabergrass is about 10 or 12. naturally the wood, including the rudder, and much of the provisions, floats. We took one of the first M-15's out in fresh water, tipped it over, and it floated with room to spare. Never tried to put floatation in an M 17, but Sage has put it in the Sage 17, and it took up a lot of room. Too much for my tastes. Honestly, the only reason we put it in the 15 is that I got tired of people asking (the earlier 17) if it had floatation, and some seemed alarmed when I would say "no, if you filled it with water it'd sink like a rock". Easier to say "yes Ma'am- it has flotation. Your children are perfectly safe". -----Original Message----- From: msminchome--- via montgomery_boats Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 11:44 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Flotation I believe you calculate required flotation based on the specific gravity of the boat vs that of water. Required flotation would be much less than the weight.of the boat. I am sure some one has done.this calculation for the M17 and M15 Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Thursday, September 13, 2018 John Schinnerer <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: On 10/29/2018 11:09 PM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
I thought about making the entire v berth bilge area a flotation chamber by sealing it off from the cabin and installing water tight hatch covers. At least it would float bow up in case of a swamping.
Interesting...did you play with the math? We'd need about 190 gallons of flotation to avoid going down...1600 lbs/8.3lbs/gal (weight of water). Or in more visual terms, a 55 gal drum x 8.3 lbs/gal = ~450 lbs flotation per drum. Monty 17 empty, 1500-1600 lbs so we'd need about 3 1/2 55-gal drums of air to float it. Would be a bit complex but one could calculate volume under the v-berth and compare. And yeah, if very little water can get in, hopefully the boat comes up un-swamped. But if a hole gets busted through below water line...that's a different case. Would need to have some kind of compact deployable flotation (e.g. canister life raft or similar) with > Monty 17 + gear displacement. cheers, John S.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: floatation foam (msminchome@aol.com) 2. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 3. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Mark Dvorscak) 5. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Michael Mann) 6. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski) 7. Re: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th (Lawrence Winiarski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:32:31 -0400 From: msminchome@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam Message-ID: <165cf4550ac-1ebc-e2a@webjas-vae245.srv.aolmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have filled the locker under the v berth of my M15 with empty 2 liter coke bottles. I have also installed latches on the cockpit lockers and they are always latched and secured with a snap lock. I have the factory installed foam under the cockpit. When the weather gets rough, I put my hatchboards in place and secure them with the latch. My thinking is the air in the cabin will keep the boat afloat long enough for me to get on the keel and right the boat. I also sail my M15 as if I were sailing a dinghy, one hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. I am normally in areas where there are no other boats and miles from land. I always wear a PFD have a PLB on a tether in my pocket and recently added a PFD with harness and a short tether to keep me onboard. If the boat floats, great. If not, I am still going to probably survive until the Coast Guard arrives.
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Steve Trapp < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I disagree, having been a past volunteer on Harbor Patrol and having had to haul dead bodies out of boats that did not float, I would not take my M-15 out of the boat slip with adequate floatation from foam blocks or other flotation. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: M
onday, September 10, 2018 2:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Tyler (and others following along):
foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only
A boat such as a M15 is under no legal requirement to have positive flotation.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 1:52 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I assume the foam chunks on small sailboats exist for legal purposes only, but are not intended to *actually* be left in place or else they would be permanently fastened to the hull. Wouldn't free chunks of foam just float out the companionway if the boat were swamped, instead of actually floating it?
To make an M15 actually buoyant with less weight, I'd think inflatable buoyancy bags as used on dinghies would work better. If you get a big one and inflate it after putting it in a compartment it can't come out, plus it will weigh a lot less than foam. You could also strap down the bags (or foam) w/ nylon straps, to keep them attached to the boat.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "Bonnie Kostka" <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:26:43 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: floatation foam
Bonnie.
You need to call around to local plastic supply places to see whom will sell you a large block of polystyrene. You then cut this up to small pieces and put them under vberth. larger blocks under cockpit.
Take out your stinky foam to figure volume needed for new.
Online may also work but shipping is an issue - I bet shipping more than the foam!
Another option is to fill area with pool noodles. With shipping for a polystyrene block this method may be cheaper
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 9:19 AM Bonnie Kostka <bonniekostka@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Does anyone know where you would buy replacement foam & what size or amout of foam to buy? Moonbeam (M15)Bonnie Kostka
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <2013420602.4429780.1536787910957@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.???
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.???
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 17:43:20 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <03ccb71f-6a2e-6a1b-dc74-3fd53a74011f@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Yeah, the drawdown info is on the Portland district Corps info page, this news item:
http://www.nwp.usace.army.mil/news/article/Article/1621438/fern-ridge-reserv...
They are slowly increasing outflows. Will still be around 370 ft. elev. end of my visit which means 5+ feet in the marina and 5 ft deep at toe (bottom end) of Richardson ramp...plenty for M-17 needs!
Hope to see you there, cheers, John S.
On 09/12/2018 02:31 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
?Hi John, I'd like to get some sailing in too.?? I hope to catch up with you.
FYI...The corp of engineers is changing the outflow as of a few days ago which will result in the water levels going down earlier this year, so peoplewho want to sail fern ridge need to get cracking early,
Normally they start draining at 4"/day in Oct, but this year they started at 1"/day Sep 10 for increased outflow in the Willamette, which IMHO resulted in a good deal of confusion and panic.
Levels are going down earlier, but at a slow rate.???? I think about 6' deep at the marina right now
Larry503-380-2235
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:11 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 20:19:07 -0700 From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: < CAA3iV0+yJ1M6B1iODLJyAge6NwWH-1X3_+pXNbTkWyDezB+sXQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:26:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <484891698.4601038.1536812785948@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
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Message: 7 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th Message-ID: <1051946027.4615211.1536813826176@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The same Michael Mann that went to Hawaii???? Funny I was just at the Fern Ridge marina with my M15 and mentioned the Hawaii trip.?
From: Michael Mann <mannatsea88@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th
Hello John S,?I am Michael and I am living in Eugene right now just 20 minutes from Richardson Park.? I would love to join you in a little sail on Saturday if you had room. Michael?
? ? ? From: Mark Dvorscak <mdvorscak56@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:20 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fern Ridge sailing trip 15th-20th ? I'd love to meet up with you but I intend to be out on the big pond on Saturday, and my wife and I already have other plans for Sunday afternoon. One of these days we'll connect I hope. Mark Dvorscak
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 11:10 John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I will have my M-17 #38 "Pajarita" at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, going up there this Saturday the 15th and hauling out & returning home the afternoon of the 20th. I'll be at the Richardson park marina, "C" dock.
Anyone in the general vicinity who wants to join in at some point, either with your boat or for a ride on mine, just let me know.
E-mail is fine up through Friday, then I'm offline mostly while there so try calling me at 510-457-5764.
I'll be sailing on and off most days, "shaking down" & refining some recent boat modifications, primarily new furling jib, but also improved mainsail reefing setup, main halyard to cockpit, better downhaul, "stow-a-way" sail tie system, etc.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
?
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 187, Issue 10 *************************************************
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (4)
-
jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org -
John Schinnerer -
Jon Barber -
msminchome＠aol.com