My 1981 M15 has turnbuckles that look like parts from an Erector set. (A series of 12 holes for inserting the clevis pins) None of the settings result in appropriate shroud tension. Is there another type of tension device M15 owners are using? I am unable to find a jaw-to-jaw turnbuckle short enough to do the job. Appreciate your help. Mike W M15 #139
Shroud adjusters, see picture, are stock and how Jerry delivered all his M15s. Turnbuckles result in an over-tensioned rig. I discuss in detail how to adjust the M15, including rake, in the Facebook MSOG group. Are you a member? How are you determining rig tension? :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 11:42 mike witkin via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My 1981 M15 has turnbuckles that look like parts from an Erector set. (A series of 12 holes for inserting the clevis pins) None of the settings result in appropriate shroud tension. Is there another type of tension device M15 owners are using? I am unable to find a jaw-to-jaw turnbuckle short enough to do the job. Appreciate your help. Mike W M15 #139
Forgot the picture ... sorry about that ;-) :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 12:04 Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Shroud adjusters, see picture, are stock and how Jerry delivered all his M15s. Turnbuckles result in an over-tensioned rig.
I discuss in detail how to adjust the M15, including rake, in the Facebook MSOG group. Are you a member?
How are you determining rig tension?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 11:42 mike witkin via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My 1981 M15 has turnbuckles that look like parts from an Erector set. (A series of 12 holes for inserting the clevis pins) None of the settings result in appropriate shroud tension. Is there another type of tension device M15 owners are using? I am unable to find a jaw-to-jaw turnbuckle short enough to do the job. Appreciate your help. Mike W M15 #139
Dave, and RustyThanks for the quick response and photo. Yes, my shroud adjusters are same as in your photo. I've attempted nothing sophisticated to tension. I like to see just a little noticeable slack in the leeward shroud when the boat heels in a moderate wind. Presently, lots of slack but I thought not enough to go to the next hole. Wanted to check the wisdom of the group before trying to tighten.Thanks againMike WM15 #139 On Saturday, September 2, 2023 at 12:05:17 PM PDT, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote: Shroud adjusters, see picture, are stock and how Jerry delivered all his M15s. Turnbuckles result in an over-tensioned rig. I discuss in detail how to adjust the M15, including rake, in the Facebook MSOG group. Are you a member? How are you determining rig tension? :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 11:42 mike witkin via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My 1981 M15 has turnbuckles that look like parts from an Erector set. (A series of 12 holes for inserting the clevis pins) None of the settings result in appropriate shroud tension. Is there another type of tension device M15 owners are using? I am unable to find a jaw-to-jaw turnbuckle short enough to do the job. Appreciate your help. Mike W M15 #139
Michael. If you have the mast rake set (about 4") the forestay should just be to hard to insert the pin. Attaching the jib halyard and giving it a yank so can just get the forestay bow plate pin installed the tension is correct. Can't get the pin in, to tight. Easy to install the forestay pin the rig isn't on loose. Make sure the mast isn't strait up/down fore-to-aft. The mast needs to be racked and there should be slight weather helm. Yes the lee shroud will be loose when going to weather. The M15/17 and Sage 15/17 and SageCat rigs all run 'snug' not tight. All are 'tuned', with different amounts of rake, the same. Don't use a Loos Gauge!! :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 13:16 Michael Witkin via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Dave, and RustyThanks for the quick response and photo. Yes, my shroud adjusters are same as in your photo. I've attempted nothing sophisticated to tension. I like to see just a little noticeable slack in the leeward shroud when the boat heels in a moderate wind. Presently, lots of slack but I thought not enough to go to the next hole. Wanted to check the wisdom of the group before trying to tighten.Thanks againMike WM15 #139
On Saturday, September 2, 2023 at 12:05:17 PM PDT, Dave Scobie < scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Shroud adjusters, see picture, are stock and how Jerry delivered all his M15s. Turnbuckles result in an over-tensioned rig.
I discuss in detail how to adjust the M15, including rake, in the Facebook MSOG group. Are you a member?
How are you determining rig tension?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 11:42 mike witkin via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My 1981 M15 has turnbuckles that look like parts from an Erector set. (A series of 12 holes for inserting the clevis pins) None of the settings result in appropriate shroud tension. Is there another type of tension device M15 owners are using? I am unable to find a jaw-to-jaw turnbuckle short enough to do the job. Appreciate your help. Mike W M15 #139
Hi All, My M-17 #325 is having a tough year. My centerboard pennant was 1/2 worn a month ago . I couldn’t replace it as I’ve been stuck doing a remodel at home. Today I finally drove 90 minutes to the lake and my pennant has parted with the centerboard down. I hope to sail a few times before pulling it out for the winter. Any suggestions for getting the boat on her trailer. Will the winch pull the boat onto the roller slowly ? I could try to beach it slowly and put in the traveling bolt. I could also run her up to the boat ramp… It is cement and will do some damage. I think I may need to pull the centerboard this winter and grind off some rust and then fiberglass it. It is sometimes slow to lower. We get lots of snow in Wyoming and there are no boatyards near me to haul it out . I may drive it to the Bay Area where I know there are lots of facilities for haul out. Thanks anyone who has advice, Doug Vogel 307-730-2971
Doug. The boat can be pulled onto the trailer and the centerboard will retract. It will be a bit harder, as expected, to crank the boat into the trailer. The 'danger' on this is the pennant fragment still attached to the board getting jammed in the trunk. You wrote: "... put in the traveling bolt" What is this? I've never seen a bolt that locks the centerboard up on a M17. IMO don't do anything where you beach the boat with the centerboard down - 1) the board causing the boat to lean port/starboard can cause damage to the keel at the rotation pin and/or the trunk 2) something gets jammed in the trunk (stick, rock, shell, etc) DON'T fiberglass over the board! The board needs to be sandblasted, sealed with a rust inhibitor (as close to immediately after sandblasting as possible), faired (if in poor condition) and then antifouled (if in fouling water for long enough time). Fiberglassing will make the board too thick and cause it to jam in the trunk. (The prior owner of my M17 tried to glass the board - complete failure causing the board to become stuck.) Sean Mulligan posted a good series of pictures/description of cast iron centerboard refurbishment on/in the MSOG Facebook group. There are also a fair number of descriptions of how to remove the centerboard on msogphotosite.com and MSOG.org. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 20:56 Douglas Vogel via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi All,
My M-17 #325 is having a tough year. My centerboard pennant was 1/2 worn a month ago . I couldn’t replace it as I’ve been stuck doing a remodel at home. Today I finally drove 90 minutes to the lake and my pennant has parted with the centerboard down. I hope to sail a few times before pulling it out for the winter. Any suggestions for getting the boat on her trailer. Will the winch pull the boat onto the roller slowly ? I could try to beach it slowly and put in the traveling bolt. I could also run her up to the boat ramp… It is cement and will do some damage. I think I may need to pull the centerboard this winter and grind off some rust and then fiberglass it. It is sometimes slow to lower. We get lots of snow in Wyoming and there are no boatyards near me to haul it out . I may drive it to the Bay Area where I know there are lots of facilities for haul out.
Thanks anyone who has advice,
Doug Vogel 307-730-2971
Thank you Dave for the great advice. I will carefully winch the boat onto the trailer in a few weeks. I will lift her aft end off the trailer in my friend’s barn and inspect the centerboard as I replace the pennant. My boat does have a set of 3/8th holes at the aft corner of the trunk perpendicular to the keel. With a bolt thru them, the centerboard will not lower. The previous owner said they were for securing the centerboard during travel on the trailer. It didn’t really make sense since the entire boat is holding the centerboard on the roller. I will send you a picture of them when I pull the boat. Perhaps they were a custom addition from some other former owner. I will also look at all the web sites and see the repair information you mentioned. I am not entirely sure what the centerboard is made of. With the hull # MNP173250580 she was built in May of 1980. I have some research to do. Thanks a lot !! I am very relieved to know I do not need divers and crazy rigging with block & tackles which I have from my theater lighting equipment. Doug Vogel
How are you determining “appropriate“ shroud tension? www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Sep 2, 2023, at 11:42 AM, mike witkin via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My 1981 M15 has turnbuckles that look like parts from an Erector set. (A series of 12 holes for inserting the clevis pins) None of the settings result in appropriate shroud tension. Is there another type of tension device M15 owners are using? I am unable to find a jaw-to-jaw turnbuckle short enough to do the job. Appreciate your help. Mike W M15 #139
How are you determining “appropriate“ shroud tension?
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
Is he above a question from you Rusty? :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 12:25 Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
How are you determining “appropriate“ shroud tension?
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Sep 2, 2023, at 11:42 AM, mike witkin via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My 1981 M15 has turnbuckles that look like parts from an Erector set. (A series of 12 holes for inserting the clevis pins) None of the settings result in appropriate shroud tension. Is there another type of tension device M15 owners are using? I am unable to find a jaw-to-jaw turnbuckle short enough to do the job. Appreciate your help. Mike W M15 #139
It was directed at the OP, Dave. Many people over tension the rig, I was just curious how he determined his rig tension. www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Sep 2, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
How are you determining “appropriate“ shroud tension?
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
Is he above a question from you Rusty?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Sat, Sep 2, 2023, 12:25 Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
How are you determining “appropriate“ shroud tension?
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Sep 2, 2023, at 11:42 AM, mike witkin via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My 1981 M15 has turnbuckles that look like parts from an Erector set. (A series of 12 holes for inserting the clevis pins) None of the settings result in appropriate shroud tension. Is there another type of tension device M15 owners are using? I am unable to find a jaw-to-jaw turnbuckle short enough to do the job. Appreciate your help. Mike W M15 #139
participants (5)
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Dave Scobie -
Douglas Vogel -
m.witkin＠yahoo.com -
Michael Witkin
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Rusty Knorr