Thom, nuther source of confusion here - You should have a 'downhaul' on the gooseneck if it is a sliding type. Before you run out and buy new sails (it is exciting to have new ones though) - rig a 'cunningham' (check Harken/Ronstan web sites for examples) - there may or may not be a grommet about 6-10"s above the tack cringle (grommet) run a line thru the cunningham grommet and make it adjustable to be able to provide luff tension to the mainsail - you may get away with the elderly sail for non racing purposes for awhile by tensioning the mainsail luff to move the draft forward. Outhaul will flatten lower section of main. A vang is essential - period - I will recommend we ALL get on a list for a sailmaker or two and get and practice their 'Trim Tips' here is a recent link from my sailmaker - This is NOT an advertisement - I am suggesting we all make use of info from the people in the business that design/build/race sails day in and out. Pattison Ullman,UK, North, and others have 'Trim Tips' that are aimed at improving our being able to get the most from our boats. Take pictures while sailing of your 'sail concern' and send them to your sailmaker friend for answers to your question. Just remember they ARE in business to sell sails - so buy one every week or two!! http://ullmansailsnewportbeach.blogspot.com/2014/02/sail-trim-unlocked.html Pattison has good articles too. In the interest of caring for your sails - roll them - OFF the boom OR parallel to the spar (not around the boom) and gently tie the sail - wide 3" or wider Velcro works nicely from Home Depot or __. Store your sails in an environment YOU are comfortable in - garage,boat, shed - all leave much to be desired for storage locations - treat them like royalty and you will be rewarded with long life and good performance from your sails - even the elderly ones! (my sails are all stored in 'sausage bags' in my home office -wife doesn't mind - Happy Hubby=Happy Life) Treat ur sails like _____ and they will return the favor - Be Nice to 'em If you want to go 'hardcore' - Home Depot -ABS/PVC 4" drain pipe makes a nice mandrel to roll your sails up on for storage. Meat of the Matter If we slack off on sails and sail controls, eventually the performance - Sailing fun - (not necessarily talking racing) - suffers, and the experience is a shadow of what it can be -It is pretty amazing how these little boats scoot thru the water/air using adjustable 'wings' - take care of the 'wings' and make effective adjustments to them and it is MAGICAL ! Pretty cool Solar Powered transportation ! My rant and opining are on hold for another week or two - excuse the 'gas' - your mileage WILL vary- always wear eye protection, and IT IS HIP to WEAR a PFD WHILE SAILING ! Be Safe ! Have Fun, Go Sailing ! ! GO BTW - in the 70's-80's it was common to see 'droopy booms' max luff, foot and luff -head to clew dimensions made for some interesting shapes - I have an older North mainsail that shows designed -in-droop, -not too common nowadays. If your sail was sewn by Mr McKibbin it is collectible and probably worn out - he did nice ones in the day - had many a green sailbag - where is that Wayback Machine?. Hard Sails, Hood narrow panels,McKibbins - geezer talk...... J In a message dated 3/12/2014 12:04:09 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wdscobie@yahoo.com writes: Thom: with the sliding gooseneck you need to have a line that keeps the 'mast end' of the boom from rising. you also need a vang to keep the boom from rising when off the wind. the vang is also used when going to weather based on the conditions and your preferences in adjusting sail shape. be sure to review the information shared by JudyB ... i agree with all she said (yes, it is true that as sail become older than five or so years need to be replaced even if not heavy used). a sail original to your boat is way past replacement date. :: Dave Scobie -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 3/11/14, Thom Loftus <thom_loftus@yahoo.com> wrote: Subject: Re: M_Boats: proper boom placement To: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 7:04 PM Hi Dave.Not sure who made my mainsail, but I'll check.Is it safe to say that the boom should sit wherever it wants to naturally sit on the mast when the sail is fully raised? I guess I'm also wondering if a boom vang is sufficient for keeping downward tension on the boom, or if you advise also rigging some kind of downhaul from the bottom of the gooseneck to the deck (i.e. some means of locking the gooseneck in place).Thanks,Thom From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: Thom Loftus <thom_loftus@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: proper boom placement Thom: was your main made by McKibben (sic)? my M15's ('84) and my M17's ('83) mains were/are McK sails. both set the aft end of the boom low (good for hitting heads). when i talked to Harry Pattison, with E/P sailmakers, about this his guess (besides the sails being old and blow out) is McK cut the sails this way to gain a few extra square feet of sail area. when Harry made the new main for my M15 it was cut so the boom was 'flat'. i had Harry re-cut the foot of my M17's blown out old main to be loose foot and set the boom flat. :: Dave Scobie -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 3/11/14, Thom Loftus <thom_loftus@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Dave.1987. The main is older I think, but in good shape. The previous owner didn't sail much and there's no indication that it's blown out. From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:26 PM Thom: what year is your M15? how old is the main? :: Dave Scobie -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 3/11/14, Thom Loftus <thom_loftus@yahoo.com> wrote: Hello All. I've recently replaced the mast on my M15 and have noticed that when my mainsail is hoisted as far as it will go up the mast, and the luff is relatively taught, that the end of the boom droops at a downward angel from the gooseneck when the topping lift is eased. It's almost as if the foot of my mainsail is cut at an angle, but I can't confirm that at the moment. In looking at pictures online, it is difficult to tell if this is the way the boom is supposed to sit, or if there is something wrong with my rig. I have not yet installed a boom vang and I don't actually know how high off of the deck the boom should sit at the gooseneck. I have no cunningham rigged and to keep the boom from inching up in the mast, I usually tie it to the deck from a loop in the gooseneck. Can anyone enlighten me as to how hight off the deck my boom should sit and whether or not the boom should angle down as it moves aft? Thanks Thom
My sails are original to the boat, 36 years old. Oh boy! I get to buy some new ones! Time to talk to Judy... Did not have a vang on my first Montgomery, but had one on all subsequent craft. I will get one now, no telling when the Montgomery 17 next to me will have Jerry in it. On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 3:16 PM, <GILASAILR@aol.com> wrote:
Thom,
nuther source of confusion here -
You should have a 'downhaul' on the gooseneck if it is a sliding type. Before you run out and buy new sails (it is exciting to have new ones though) - rig a 'cunningham' (check Harken/Ronstan web sites for examples) - there may or may not be a grommet about 6-10"s above the tack cringle (grommet) run a line thru the cunningham grommet and make it adjustable to be able to provide luff tension to the mainsail - you may get away with the elderly sail for non racing purposes for awhile by tensioning the mainsail luff to move the draft forward. Outhaul will flatten lower section of main.
A vang is essential - period - I will recommend we ALL get on a list for a sailmaker or two and get and practice their 'Trim Tips' here is a recent link from my sailmaker - This is NOT an advertisement - I am suggesting we all make use of info from the people in the business that design/build/race sails day in and out. Pattison Ullman,UK, North, and others have 'Trim Tips' that are aimed at improving our being able to get the most from our boats. Take pictures while sailing of your 'sail concern' and send them to your sailmaker friend for answers to your question. Just remember they ARE in business to sell sails - so buy one every week or two!!
http://ullmansailsnewportbeach.blogspot.com/2014/02/sail-trim-unlocked.html
Pattison has good articles too.
In the interest of caring for your sails - roll them - OFF the boom OR parallel to the spar (not around the boom) and gently tie the sail - wide 3" or wider Velcro works nicely from Home Depot or __. Store your sails in an environment YOU are comfortable in - garage,boat, shed - all leave much to be desired for storage locations - treat them like royalty and you will be rewarded with long life and good performance from your sails - even the elderly ones! (my sails are all stored in 'sausage bags' in my home office -wife doesn't mind - Happy Hubby=Happy Life) Treat ur sails like _____ and they will return the favor - Be Nice to 'em
If you want to go 'hardcore' - Home Depot -ABS/PVC 4" drain pipe makes a nice mandrel to roll your sails up on for storage.
Meat of the Matter
If we slack off on sails and sail controls, eventually the performance - Sailing fun - (not necessarily talking racing) - suffers, and the experience is a shadow of what it can be -It is pretty amazing how these little boats scoot thru the water/air using adjustable 'wings' - take care of the 'wings' and make effective adjustments to them and it is MAGICAL ! Pretty cool Solar Powered transportation !
My rant and opining are on hold for another week or two - excuse the 'gas' - your mileage WILL vary- always wear eye protection, and IT IS HIP to WEAR a PFD WHILE SAILING ! Be Safe !
Have Fun, Go Sailing ! !
GO
BTW - in the 70's-80's it was common to see 'droopy booms' max luff, foot and luff -head to clew dimensions made for some interesting shapes - I have an older North mainsail that shows designed -in-droop, -not too common nowadays. If your sail was sewn by Mr McKibbin it is collectible and probably worn out - he did nice ones in the day - had many a green sailbag - where is that Wayback Machine?. Hard Sails, Hood narrow panels,McKibbins - geezer talk...... J
In a message dated 3/12/2014 12:04:09 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wdscobie@yahoo.com writes:
Thom:
with the sliding gooseneck you need to have a line that keeps the 'mast end' of the boom from rising.
you also need a vang to keep the boom from rising when off the wind. the vang is also used when going to weather based on the conditions and your preferences in adjusting sail shape.
be sure to review the information shared by JudyB ... i agree with all she said (yes, it is true that as sail become older than five or so years need to be replaced even if not heavy used). a sail original to your boat is way past replacement date.
:: Dave Scobie
-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 3/11/14, Thom Loftus <thom_loftus@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: M_Boats: proper boom placement To: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 7:04 PM
Hi Dave.Not sure who made my mainsail, but I'll check.Is it safe to say that the boom should sit wherever it wants to naturally sit on the mast when the sail is fully raised? I guess I'm also wondering if a boom vang is sufficient for keeping downward tension on the boom, or if you advise also rigging some kind of downhaul from the bottom of the gooseneck to the deck (i.e. some means of locking the gooseneck in place).Thanks,Thom
From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: Thom Loftus <thom_loftus@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: proper boom placement
Thom:
was your main made by McKibben (sic)? my M15's ('84) and my M17's ('83) mains were/are McK sails. both set the aft end of the boom low (good for hitting heads).
when i talked to Harry Pattison, with E/P sailmakers, about this his guess (besides the sails being old and blow out) is McK cut the sails this way to gain a few extra square feet of sail area.
when Harry made the new main for my M15 it was cut so the boom was 'flat'. i had Harry re-cut the foot of my M17's blown out old main to be loose foot and set the boom flat.
:: Dave Scobie
-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 3/11/14, Thom Loftus <thom_loftus@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Dave.1987. The main is older I think, but in good shape.
The previous owner didn't sail much and there's no indication that it's blown out.
From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:26 PM
Thom:
what year is your M15?
how old is the main?
:: Dave Scobie
-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 3/11/14, Thom Loftus <thom_loftus@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello All.
I've recently replaced the mast on my M15 and have noticed that when my mainsail is hoisted as far as it will go up
the mast, and the luff is relatively taught, that the end of the boom droops at a downward angel from the gooseneck when the topping lift is eased. It's almost as if the foot
of my mainsail is cut at an angle, but I can't confirm that at the moment.
In looking at pictures online, it is difficult to tell if this is the way the boom is supposed to sit, or if there
is something wrong with my rig. I have not yet installed a boom vang and I don't actually know how high off of the deck the boom should sit at the gooseneck. I have no cunningham rigged and to keep the boom from inching up in the mast, I usually tie it to the deck from a loop in the gooseneck.
Can anyone enlighten me as to how hight off the deck my boom
should sit and whether or not the boom should angle down as it moves aft?
Thanks Thom
participants (2)
-
GILASAILR＠aol.com -
Thomas Buzzi