OK, I may be the only person on this board that had a Precision 18 before my Montgomery 17 so here's my two cents: Jeff, there is no comparison. The Monty is a better sailor, more stiff, and better built. However, there are a few reasons why you still may want a Precision 18. One, there are more of them on the market, and two, they have a kick up rudder (if that's important to you). If you're not going sailing because you can't find a good Monty, then get a Precision. For me, I would wait for a good used one or plunk the money down for a new one. Contact me off line if you want more details. Maria Jorge mcjorge@bellsouth.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M_17 VS Precision 18

Jeff,

Bob's is certainly an unbiased opinion :)

The spec's do speak for themselves and my personal opinon is that the M17 is the best boat in it's class on the market.

However I believe in going sailing and I have come across a number of Precision 18's out cruising and the people using them seem quite happy with them.

They may not know what the difference is but they are out there enjoying the water.

My bottom line recommendation would be to get a M17 for the fall Phoenix sailing but if you can't, get a Precision as they are a decent enjoyable boat.

If you buy used and get a good deal you can always upgrade to an M17 if you feel the need without loosing much money.

Get ON THE WATER and enjoy it while you can.

Doug Kelch PS: I love my M15 --- Bob <Bobeeg@earthlink.net> wrote:

...

Hi Jeff

I'll take this one. Without bragging too much, the Montgomery 17 is a faster boat, more weatherly and larger than a Precision 18. Also the M_17 has more ballast (for better stability and windward performance) and is built for much rougher conditions.

I've seen Precisions up close and was not impressed with the build quality. They are built thin and light weight, have cheap plastic windows and have poor sailing performance overall. They are sold thru dealership networks with the usual 30% mark up, and mass produced in Florida. We beat every Precision (even the 21 with mylar racing sails) at every SCA Cruiser Challange the last 4 years in a stock Montgomery 17.

Its funny how these boat factorys name a boat for length. A perfect example is the Potter 19. The Potter is really only 17 feet 7 inches long ON DECK, but they count the motor mount as a foot and hence the misleading 19 foot length figure.

Lets look at the Precision 18.

Precision 18 Specifications

LOA --17' 5" ..............The Montgomery 17 is 17 feet 4 inches without the mount LWL -- 15' 5" ...............The Montgomery 17 is 15 feet 6 inches... BEAM -- 7' 5"................The Montgomery 17 is 7 feet 7 inches wide DRAFT, Board up -- 1' 6" DRAFT, Board down -- 4' 3" Displacement -- 1100 lbs. ........The Montgomery 17 weighs 1650 pounds. More material

more ballast and a stronger boat. Boats cost per pound to

build. 1100 pounds is really flimsy for boat that size.

Ballast -- 350 lbs...wow.! The P-18 has slighty more ballast than a Montgomery 15..! This tells us that the Precision 18 will be very tender. The

Montgomery 17 has 600 pounds of pure lead ballast. No wonder it is so seaworthy and will go to weather.

Sail area -- 145 sq. ft. .....the Precision 18 has a fractional rig..the M_17 has a proper masthead rig.

Mast height above DWL -- 27' Designer: -- Jim Taylor...............never heard of him. Lyle C. Hess designed the M_17.

Nuff said....

As I said before your welcome to come visit Jeff...

Fair winds Bob (949) 489-8227 www.montgomeryboats.com

Jeff Flancer wrote:

...

Hi all, My name is Jeff. I am looking at buying a new or used M-17. I used to have a 1982 M-15. Good boat, no doubt, but I need something a little bigger (for 2 young boys & wife) so they can enjoy, and newer, so I can enjoy(and not maintan too much). I am also considering a Precision 18 and wonder if there is any "unbiased" (wrong group I know) opinions on either boat. I live in Phoenix, AZ, and was a subscriber to this group in the past. Happy days to you all. Jeff Flancer _______________________________________________

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Tod You are not implying that your M17 does not have a smooth finish? Irv -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+kooris=rcn.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+kooris=rcn.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of htmills@bright.net Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 7:37 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: (no subject) Jeff, Clarence's 17 + 6-10 would be just the thing! Nothing better than a little dinghy for kids (if they are too young, just blink a few times). I haven't sailed a Precision 18, but have seen them at several shows and my impressions of the boat match up with what has already been said. The one thing that does impress me about them is the care that someone went to to obtain a fair (smooth, no ripples in the finish) hull, A+ there. However, that alone was not enough to offset what I perceived as demerits. Maria has a good point about the kick up rudder if routinely sailing thin water, although a 17 could (and has) been fitted with one too. As Doug says: if it gets you on the water... Tod M17 #408 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Flancer Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 9:29 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: (no subject) Hi all, My name is Jeff. I am looking at buying a new or used M-17. I used to have a 1982 M-15. Good boat, no doubt, but I need something a little bigger (for 2 young boys & wife) so they can enjoy, and newer, so I can enjoy(and not maintan too much). I am also considering a Precision 18 and wonder if there is any "unbiased" (wrong group I know) opinions on either boat. I live in Phoenix, AZ, and was a subscriber to this group in the past. Happy days to you all. Jeff Flancer _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

Hi Tod and all.... You brought up a more simple M_23 in your post.... We are building a new Montgomery 23 Offshore Cutter Barebones addition. This will be a minimum cost BASE BOAT with sails. Less complicated and less factory installed systems to lower the cost. We will still offer the fully loaded boat with Inboard diesel. But this boat we are now building has: A totally Green Hull with white sheer and boot stripe. She is being built without the inboard engine and all the equipment associated with the engine. She will be outboard powered with a stainless adjustable motor mount. We feel we can cut some substantial cost and weight, by not installing the inboard diesel. (and its related gear) We are still building the same Yacht Finish interior however. This is because it doesn't add much weight and its important to sit below in a nice interior. We are not installing a marine head/holding tank and this will also take some of the cost out. We are moving a couple of systems to a different location also. We are moving to a one battery bank system with possible solar charging when your on the hook. (there is plenty of room for more but we are going to leave that decision up to the owner) Also we are adding some bronze interior hardware for keroscene lamps. (save that battery for night sailing navigation lites) The goal is too make the boat more affordable and SIMPLE without removing the strength, quality, teak trim, bronze windows and stainless parts. We feel the boat will be less costly and the owner can install various systems as money will allow. To get into the base boat, get on the water for less money; then add systems at will. The boat will still have that salty look but if will be lighter (because of no inboard and tanks, etc) and more affordable. If anyone wants to ask questions, give me a call. Fair winds Bob (949) 489-8227 htmills@bright.net wrote:

Well, Irv, to be honest, I'd have to say Precision DID do a more careful job w/ regards to level of finish, but that's the ONLY place where they have my Montgomery beat and if you are like me, that only lasts until you sail it for the first time (thinking back to the time I "dropped the mast"). It's been a while since I've seen Clarence's boat but I'm not sure that holds true with Bob's boats. I think he's fitting them out to more of a yacht finish than Jerry did, what with the upholstered settee backs, etc. (is that an option?) And how about that optional teak and holly sole?

I think it is due in no small part to general changes in consumer expectation for finish level rather than any commentary on Jerry's work. Look at the changes in cars in the last 20-30 years; auto, air, tilt, cruise, electric this electric that. I personally like the Spartan interior and, if you recall, I suggested to Bob to keep the interior of the new 23 on a par with Busca's but of course we all know that my plea went unheeded and instead it is a finely fitted yacht. (of course, the only 23 was much also much more polished than the 17).

"A good boat is more than just a pretty finish."

Tod (totally devoid of any fit or finish himself)

-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Irvin H. Kooris Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 6:41 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: (no subject)

Tod You are not implying that your M17 does not have a smooth finish? Irv

-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+kooris=rcn.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+kooris=rcn.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of htmills@bright.net Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 7:37 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: (no subject)

Jeff,

Clarence's 17 + 6-10 would be just the thing! Nothing better than a little dinghy for kids (if they are too young, just blink a few times).

I haven't sailed a Precision 18, but have seen them at several shows and my impressions of the boat match up with what has already been said. The one thing that does impress me about them is the care that someone went to to obtain a fair (smooth, no ripples in the finish) hull, A+ there. However, that alone was not enough to offset what I perceived as demerits. Maria has a good point about the kick up rudder if routinely sailing thin water, although a 17 could (and has) been fitted with one too.

As Doug says: if it gets you on the water...

Tod M17 #408

-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Flancer Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 9:29 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: (no subject)

Hi all, My name is Jeff. I am looking at buying a new or used M-17. I used to have a 1982 M-15. Good boat, no doubt, but I need something a little bigger (for 2 young boys & wife) so they can enjoy, and newer, so I can enjoy(and not maintan too much). I am also considering a Precision 18 and wonder if there is any "unbiased" (wrong group I know) opinions on either boat. I live in Phoenix, AZ, and was a subscriber to this group in the past. Happy days to you all. Jeff Flancer _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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