Hi all,I am getting a new mast for my Montgomery 17 from Dwyer. One of the options is to use a new single slot masthead with 2 sheaves, which would allow running halyards down inside the mast. Another would be to use the two slot 4 sheave as in the original. Thoughts? Any pros or cons one way or the other?Thanks!-Gerry
Original 4 sheave outside. Bob. Sent from my iPad
On Mar 29, 2019, at 6:39 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi all,I am getting a new mast for my Montgomery 17 from Dwyer. One of the options is to use a new single slot masthead with 2 sheaves, which would allow running halyards down inside the mast. Another would be to use the two slot 4 sheave as in the original. Thoughts? Any pros or cons one way or the other?Thanks!-Gerry
On Mar 29, 2019, at 6:39 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi all,I am getting a new mast for my Montgomery 17 from Dwyer. One of the options is to use a new single slot masthead with 2 sheaves, which would allow running halyards down inside the mast. Another would be to use the two slot 4 sheave as in the original. Thoughts? Any pros or cons one way or the other?Thanks!-Gerry
Just my subjective thoughts...in favor of the OEM external halyards... I like having the halyards all visible. Any fraying, wear, tear, etc. is readily noticed. Simple and less drag with external halyards - just the sheaves at the masthead. No mast exit ports/sheaves or other additional hardware or routing adding friction anywhere. Seems simpler to repair/replace external halyards, especially if some emergency repair needed on the water. I imagine that the halyards would slap the inside of the mast while bobbing at anchor/mooring/slip, similar to any electrical wiring run inside the mast. So, more sleep-disturbing noises if you're sleeping aboard. Tricks I've heard of to silence internal mast wiring could not be used for halyards and could also not be used on wiring (if any) if the halyards were internal. Never had a boat with internal halyards so not sure what the benefits might be. Half the halyard gets way less sun exposure...and...?? cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
yes external halyards are best, i shaved my sheaves on my drill press, with a file to widen the sheave for 5/16 lines sold my 17 now have a 15 😬 On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 11:16 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On Mar 29, 2019, at 6:39 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi all,I am getting a new mast for my Montgomery 17 from Dwyer. One of the options is to use a new single slot masthead with 2 sheaves, which would allow running halyards down inside the mast. Another would be to use the two slot 4 sheave as in the original. Thoughts? Any pros or cons one way or the other?Thanks!-Gerry
Just my subjective thoughts...in favor of the OEM external halyards...
I like having the halyards all visible. Any fraying, wear, tear, etc. is readily noticed. Simple and less drag with external halyards - just the sheaves at the masthead. No mast exit ports/sheaves or other additional hardware or routing adding friction anywhere. Seems simpler to repair/replace external halyards, especially if some emergency repair needed on the water. I imagine that the halyards would slap the inside of the mast while bobbing at anchor/mooring/slip, similar to any electrical wiring run inside the mast. So, more sleep-disturbing noises if you're sleeping aboard. Tricks I've heard of to silence internal mast wiring could not be used for halyards and could also not be used on wiring (if any) if the halyards were internal.
Never had a boat with internal halyards so not sure what the benefits might be. Half the halyard gets way less sun exposure...and...??
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
In the book "Sensible Cruising: The Thoreau Approach" by Don Casey and Lew Hackler tey have some great advice on how to handle the 'anxiety' of so many different ways to rig a boat, and if you should swap over to whatever is currently most popular or not. "However your boat was rigged when you got it- that's the one for you" (paraphrasing). If you don't have a strong reason to think one system is much better than another for your purposes, in most cases it will be about a wash, with different trade-offs to each that cancel out. I found this philosophy relaxing, that every time I get an old sailboat with external halyards ran to cleats on the mast, I don't need to replace it with internal halyards ran to the cockpit before I can go enjoy sailing... Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2019 12:15:56 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: new mast for M17; run halyards inside or out?
On Mar 29, 2019, at 6:39 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi all,I am getting a new mast for my Montgomery 17 from Dwyer. One of the options is to use a new single slot masthead with 2 sheaves, which would allow running halyards down inside the mast. Another would be to use the two slot 4 sheave as in the original. Thoughts? Any pros or cons one way or the other?Thanks!-Gerry
Just my subjective thoughts...in favor of the OEM external halyards... I like having the halyards all visible. Any fraying, wear, tear, etc. is readily noticed. Simple and less drag with external halyards - just the sheaves at the masthead. No mast exit ports/sheaves or other additional hardware or routing adding friction anywhere. Seems simpler to repair/replace external halyards, especially if some emergency repair needed on the water. I imagine that the halyards would slap the inside of the mast while bobbing at anchor/mooring/slip, similar to any electrical wiring run inside the mast. So, more sleep-disturbing noises if you're sleeping aboard. Tricks I've heard of to silence internal mast wiring could not be used for halyards and could also not be used on wiring (if any) if the halyards were internal. Never had a boat with internal halyards so not sure what the benefits might be. Half the halyard gets way less sun exposure...and...?? cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi Gerry, Always had/have external. At rest, a bungee cord to the appropriate shroud silences them from slapping. I agree, I'd rather have them visible. If you happen to somehow have the shackle end get loose and go shooting up to the top of your mast, it is a fairly easy fix. (On our Catalina 22, I shimmied up the mast once to retrieve it. This should be avoided--I can't remember how that got loose and up the mast...must have been an error of the Admiral...couldn't have been me...:- ) . Smaller boats may give you an exciting ride from mast top to ground, dock, or water.) Perhaps internal halyards could not get loose this way? But if it did, it would look difficult to remedy on the water. Say, put a good stainless transom ladder on that boat if it doesn't have one: it is your only way back in if you fall out. The rope ones work horribly. We've had drownings here due to lack of a ladder or good steps. (Cold water) Burt Monty 12 On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 9:40 AM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi all,I am getting a new mast for my Montgomery 17 from Dwyer. One of the options is to use a new single slot masthead with 2 sheaves, which would allow running halyards down inside the mast. Another would be to use the two slot 4 sheave as in the original. Thoughts? Any pros or cons one way or the other?Thanks!-Gerry
Garry: My two cents worth based in experience with both internal and extey halyards. Pluses to internal halyards - * Boat sails better = less turbulence so cleaner wind in the main. * Quieter at anchor. A rope halyard doesn't clang it slap inside the mast. * There is no increased friction. If things are stiff check the sheeves at the masthead and the blocks leading the jib halyard aft. (IMO don't lead the main halyard aft ... doing so adds complications when reefing.) * It is no harder to inspect the halyards as you can see the in mast sections when sails up and when down (just not at the same time. Things to be aware - * Rule: always ALWAYS keep an eight knot in the tail end. I tell folks, 'only time no 8-knkt is when have the line in your hand!' * Harder to change out line or switch end for end. * Can be more costly as more labor to build mast (more holes) I write the above from experience. All the Jerry designed Sage boats have internal halyards - there is a reason! Helps make a faster boat! My current boat/home, SWALLOW, has internal halyards. If you look around most new build boats have internal halyards - again there is a reason! In the end the way Jerry designed the M17 with external halyards works just fine. We thankfully are getting away from rope-to-wire halyards though! :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 6:40 AM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi all,I am getting a new mast for my Montgomery 17 from Dwyer. One of the options is to use a new single slot masthead with 2 sheaves, which would allow running halyards down inside the mast. Another would be to use the two slot 4 sheave as in the original. Thoughts? Any pros or cons one way or the other?Thanks!-Gerry
Hi all: It’s time for me to order new spare shrouds and a forestay for my M15. I’ve noticed that all three rigs are pretty much the same length, which includes the nico press with thimble and deck terminal is an aircraft eye. My measurements including these pieces of hardware come to about 185 5/8 inches. What measurements do you have on these cables for the M15? Thanks, Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
Peter: Jerry has stated, "Regarding the Montgomery 15: the only change I ever made to the standing rigging during the production life of the boat was to increase the length of the forestay about an inch and shorten the shrouds about half that much." (See more - http://www.jerrymontgomery.org/mboat.html ) What hull number is your M15? If a low number have one before Jerry made the changes? :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 6:12 PM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi all: It’s time for me to order new spare shrouds and a forestay for my M15. I’ve noticed that all three rigs are pretty much the same length, which includes the nico press with thimble and deck terminal is an aircraft eye. My measurements including these pieces of hardware come to about 185 5/8 inches. What measurements do you have on these cables for the M15? Thanks,
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska? Thanx, Steve M-15 # 335
Simple, don’t waste any of that precious space on food and water. Les M17 Poppy
On Mar 31, 2019, at 1:37 PM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska? Thanx, Steve M-15 # 335
"Beer is food" - saying I learned from forest service fire fighters/smoke-jumpers. But seriously...they have to figure out how to fit it on board, one way or another. Maybe do some fishing; learn what to harvest from the sea as well is an option. There are places the first part of the journey to stop and get supplies, I don't think there's any rule against that. But at some point, it's a fair stretch of self-support. Water I have heard is obtainable along the way, but might be from creeks on the coast and you would need to treat/purify it. cheers, John On 03/31/2019 01:49 PM, Les Schuldt wrote:
Simple, don’t waste any of that precious space on food and water.
Les M17 Poppy
On Mar 31, 2019, at 1:37 PM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska? Thanx, Steve M-15 # 335
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
We were campground and dock hosts on Sucia Island for Washington State Parks last June and followed the race online and even saw a few of the boats go by. A friend was in the race with an Idaho boat and crew. They had a rafting type rowing frame on the sailboat in case they were dead in the water, and believe me, they were dead in the water in a few spots. The key was planning for water stops and dehydrated backpacking meals were the thing for them. Lots of energy bars. They had ample harbors for resupply but some kind of power (oaring, paddling) was needed for sure. One solo sailor washed up on the rocks because he didn’t have any non-motorized power besides the sails. Another kayaker ended up with a kidney failure because he didn’t have enough water and seriously became dehydrated. I think he had to be rescued. My friend and his crew miss-timed the currents a few times and one time of Patoes Island was stranded for 12 hours. It’s a tough race. Sails like a Girl, the team that won, had two types of non-sail power - a type of rowing frame and also a bicycle pedaling system that operated some sort of paddling power. No motors allowed at all. Some of the boaters in the past have mentioned that stopping in the remote islands and coves for water was scary because of the bears. It’s an interesting race and there is a website that gives you a lot of information, videos and crazy stories. When the race is going you can follow each boat and where they are. That’s really fun. Each day or so a race official posts of video of one of the boats competing on how they are doing. See https://r2ak.com Hope this helps. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Mar 31, 2019, at 3:13 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
"Beer is food" - saying I learned from forest service fire fighters/smoke-jumpers.
But seriously...they have to figure out how to fit it on board, one way or another. Maybe do some fishing; learn what to harvest from the sea as well is an option.
There are places the first part of the journey to stop and get supplies, I don't think there's any rule against that. But at some point, it's a fair stretch of self-support. Water I have heard is obtainable along the way, but might be from creeks on the coast and you would need to treat/purify it.
cheers, John
On 03/31/2019 01:49 PM, Les Schuldt wrote:
Simple, don’t waste any of that precious space on food and water. Les M17 Poppy
On Mar 31, 2019, at 1:37 PM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska? Thanx, Steve M-15 # 335
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Everything backpackers do is applicable to an M15... if you can find freshwater occasionally on land you can filter it with a water purifier, and use this along with freeze dried backpacking food. Freeze dried food is around 1-2 pounds per day, so you could easily carry enough for a several month trip on an M15. There are hand operated desalinators, but they are expensive and way too much effort for the tiny amount of water they produce- under a liter for a solid hour of pumping. If you can find reliable freshwater, a good backpacking filter produces a liter from 30 seconds of pumping - 120 times as fast as a desalinator. Carrying a week (~10 gallons) of water on an M15 is no problem. I like to use MSR Dromedary bags, which sit low in the bilge and give you extra ballast, while conforming to whatever place you set them. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Trapp" <stevetrapp@Q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2019 1:37:23 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: R2AK? Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska? Thanx, Steve M-15 # 335
Steve: Careful planning and as John wrote one can get things in if needed along the way. High calorie backpacking food as Tyler wrote. Good discussion of foodstuffs and such for long distance in an M15 Michael Scott Mann's book 'A Little Breeze To The West: Adventures of a young man’s single-handed voyage to Hawaii on his 15-ft Montgomery sailboat' :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 2:18 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Everything backpackers do is applicable to an M15... if you can find freshwater occasionally on land you can filter it with a water purifier, and use this along with freeze dried backpacking food. Freeze dried food is around 1-2 pounds per day, so you could easily carry enough for a several month trip on an M15.
There are hand operated desalinators, but they are expensive and way too much effort for the tiny amount of water they produce- under a liter for a solid hour of pumping. If you can find reliable freshwater, a good backpacking filter produces a liter from 30 seconds of pumping - 120 times as fast as a desalinator. Carrying a week (~10 gallons) of water on an M15 is no problem. I like to use MSR Dromedary bags, which sit low in the bilge and give you extra ballast, while conforming to whatever place you set them.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Trapp" <stevetrapp@Q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2019 1:37:23 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: R2AK?
Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska? Thanx, Steve M-15 # 335
My guess on shoreside streams etc. is based on a friend's planning for a Powell River to Prince Rupert kayak trip summer 2020 - he lives in Powell River and knows the territory and has talked to more ardent expeditioners and so far said it sounds like there is a fresh water source at least every 2-3 days once you get north of any significant human habitation. Food will be a bigger deal due to much less space in kayaks. He said some people mail ahead boxes of supplies to the few places they can be retrieved... For water storage - camping, paddling, sailing - I have recently tried some Smart Bottles: https://smartbottleinc.com/ These are quite nifty and sturdy and overall well designed. The 1 gallon and 2.5 gallon sizes can be easily packed, stowed, lifted, depending on space (e.g. kayak vs. M17 vs. car camping etc.). The spigots are nice. They do stand or sit flat and stable on benches tables etc. and the spigots work nice. I get one with a spigot and the rest with plain cap since I only need spigot on one at a time. And they lie flat or roll up taking very little space when empty. Simplest lightest water purification: Six drops 2% tincture of iodine per quart/liter of water. Plastic unbreakable eyedroppers easily available and a little bottle of 2% tincture costs a couple bucks at drugstore and treats hundreds of gallons. Give it at least 20 minutes contact time; 30+ if water is particularly cold. Kills pretty much everything (including giardia and giardia cysts, and tropical stuff too). A pinch of vitamin C powder (or Emergen-C or similar) shaken/stirred in AFTER the contact time neutralizes the slight iodine taste you'd otherwise have. cheers, John On 03/31/2019 02:17 PM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Everything backpackers do is applicable to an M15... if you can find freshwater occasionally on land you can filter it with a water purifier, and use this along with freeze dried backpacking food. Freeze dried food is around 1-2 pounds per day, so you could easily carry enough for a several month trip on an M15.
There are hand operated desalinators, but they are expensive and way too much effort for the tiny amount of water they produce- under a liter for a solid hour of pumping. If you can find reliable freshwater, a good backpacking filter produces a liter from 30 seconds of pumping - 120 times as fast as a desalinator. Carrying a week (~10 gallons) of water on an M15 is no problem. I like to use MSR Dromedary bags, which sit low in the bilge and give you extra ballast, while conforming to whatever place you set them.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Trapp" <stevetrapp@Q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2019 1:37:23 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: R2AK?
Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska? Thanx, Steve M-15 # 335
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
another important factor, " rigging the oars" On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 2:03 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
My guess on shoreside streams etc. is based on a friend's planning for a Powell River to Prince Rupert kayak trip summer 2020 - he lives in Powell River and knows the territory and has talked to more ardent expeditioners and so far said it sounds like there is a fresh water source at least every 2-3 days once you get north of any significant human habitation.
Food will be a bigger deal due to much less space in kayaks. He said some people mail ahead boxes of supplies to the few places they can be retrieved...
For water storage - camping, paddling, sailing - I have recently tried some Smart Bottles: https://smartbottleinc.com/
These are quite nifty and sturdy and overall well designed. The 1 gallon and 2.5 gallon sizes can be easily packed, stowed, lifted, depending on space (e.g. kayak vs. M17 vs. car camping etc.). The spigots are nice. They do stand or sit flat and stable on benches tables etc. and the spigots work nice. I get one with a spigot and the rest with plain cap since I only need spigot on one at a time. And they lie flat or roll up taking very little space when empty.
Simplest lightest water purification: Six drops 2% tincture of iodine per quart/liter of water. Plastic unbreakable eyedroppers easily available and a little bottle of 2% tincture costs a couple bucks at drugstore and treats hundreds of gallons. Give it at least 20 minutes contact time; 30+ if water is particularly cold. Kills pretty much everything (including giardia and giardia cysts, and tropical stuff too). A pinch of vitamin C powder (or Emergen-C or similar) shaken/stirred in AFTER the contact time neutralizes the slight iodine taste you'd otherwise have.
cheers, John
On 03/31/2019 02:17 PM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Everything backpackers do is applicable to an M15... if you can find freshwater occasionally on land you can filter it with a water purifier, and use this along with freeze dried backpacking food. Freeze dried food is around 1-2 pounds per day, so you could easily carry enough for a several month trip on an M15.
There are hand operated desalinators, but they are expensive and way too much effort for the tiny amount of water they produce- under a liter for a solid hour of pumping. If you can find reliable freshwater, a good backpacking filter produces a liter from 30 seconds of pumping - 120 times as fast as a desalinator. Carrying a week (~10 gallons) of water on an M15 is no problem. I like to use MSR Dromedary bags, which sit low in the bilge and give you extra ballast, while conforming to whatever place you set them.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Trapp" <stevetrapp@Q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2019 1:37:23 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: R2AK?
Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska? Thanx, Steve M-15 # 335
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
The Smart Bottle looks interesting for maximizing available storage and minimizing waste. Any idea how long the water will stay fresh in these containers? I am planning a 30 day M15 cruise and am trying to provision for the entire trip. Storing 180 16 ounce water bottles takes a lot of space and leaves me with a bunch of empty bottles. Also, what do you have to do to reuse the Smart Bottle? Seems like some moisture will remain in the used bottle and over time will begin to grow bacteria.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: carlos navarro <chisailor1@gmail.com> Date: 4/1/19 11:42 AM (GMT-05:00) To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: R2AK? another important factor, " rigging the oars"On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 2:03 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:> My guess on shoreside streams etc. is based on a friend's planning for a> Powell River to Prince Rupert kayak trip summer 2020 - he lives in> Powell River and knows the territory and has talked to more ardent> expeditioners and so far said it sounds like there is a fresh water> source at least every 2-3 days once you get north of any significant> human habitation.>> Food will be a bigger deal due to much less space in kayaks. He said> some people mail ahead boxes of supplies to the few places they can be> retrieved...>> For water storage - camping, paddling, sailing - I have recently tried> some Smart Bottles: https://smartbottleinc.com/>> These are quite nifty and sturdy and overall well designed. The 1 gallon> and 2.5 gallon sizes can be easily packed, stowed, lifted, depending on> space (e.g. kayak vs. M17 vs. car camping etc.). The spigots are nice.> They do stand or sit flat and stable on benches tables etc. and the> spigots work nice. I get one with a spigot and the rest with plain cap> since I only need spigot on one at a time.> And they lie flat or roll up taking very little space when empty.>> Simplest lightest water purification:> Six drops 2% tincture of iodine per quart/liter of water. Plastic> unbreakable eyedroppers easily available and a little bottle of 2%> tincture costs a couple bucks at drugstore and treats hundreds of gallons.> Give it at least 20 minutes contact time; 30+ if water is particularly> cold. Kills pretty much everything (including giardia and giardia cysts,> and tropical stuff too).> A pinch of vitamin C powder (or Emergen-C or similar) shaken/stirred in> AFTER the contact time neutralizes the slight iodine taste you'd> otherwise have.>> cheers,> John>> On 03/31/2019 02:17 PM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:> > Everything backpackers do is applicable to an M15... if you can find> freshwater occasionally on land you can filter it with a water purifier,> and use this along with freeze dried backpacking food. Freeze dried food is> around 1-2 pounds per day, so you could easily carry enough for a several> month trip on an M15.> >> > There are hand operated desalinators, but they are expensive and way too> much effort for the tiny amount of water they produce- under a liter for a> solid hour of pumping. If you can find reliable freshwater, a good> backpacking filter produces a liter from 30 seconds of pumping - 120 times> as fast as a desalinator. Carrying a week (~10 gallons) of water on an M15> is no problem. I like to use MSR Dromedary bags, which sit low in the bilge> and give you extra ballast, while conforming to whatever place you set them.> >> > Sincerely,> > Tyler> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Steve Trapp" <stevetrapp@Q.com>> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <> montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2019 1:37:23 PM> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: R2AK?> >> > Does any M-boater know how an R2AK participant in a small boat such as> > an M-15 know how the competitors get enough food, water, and beer to> > complete the long journey from Port Townsend to Alaska?> > Thanx,> > Steve> > M-15 # 335> >>> --> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design> --------------------------------------------> - Eco-Living -> Whole Systems Design Services> People - Place - Learning - Integration> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334> http://eco-living.net> http://sociocracyconsulting.com>>
Basically, same answer as for any other water storage jug(s)... Just drain them out, flatten or roll up, store somewhere dark and cool ideally. That's what I do. A few drops of water left in them are not a problem for storage, unless you are storing them out in the sun in a warm climate, then if there's anything in there to grow, it will eventually. I give them a rinse before filling after taking out of storage is all. They could be washed out with warm soapy water if necessary. Baking soda rinse if they for some reason get any odor. I don't put anything but plain drinking water in them - no powdered mixes or juices or anything, then you get residues (sugar in most cases, = food for micro-critters) in there and harder to clean out etc. Water stays 'fresh' pretty much indefinitely if no sunlight on it and it was pure when it went in. Warmer temps support more growth, but if there's no light, still nothing much happens. For a month trip, I would have no worries in these or most any other decent potable water container. cheers, John On 04/01/2019 08:02 AM, msminchome via montgomery_boats wrote:
The Smart Bottle looks interesting for maximizing available storage and minimizing waste. Any idea how long the water will stay fresh in these containers? I am planning a 30 day M15 cruise and am trying to provision for the entire trip. Storing 180 16 ounce water bottles takes a lot of space and leaves me with a bunch of empty bottles. Also, what do you have to do to reuse the Smart Bottle? Seems like some moisture will remain in the used bottle and over time will begin to grow bacteria.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks. I will place an order. Saves space and good for the environment. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Date: 4/1/19 2:14 PM (GMT-05:00) To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: R2AK? Basically, same answer as for any other water storage jug(s)...Just drain them out, flatten or roll up, store somewhere dark and cool ideally. That's what I do. A few drops of water left in them are not a problem for storage, unless you are storing them out in the sun in a warm climate, then if there's anything in there to grow, it will eventually.I give them a rinse before filling after taking out of storage is all.They could be washed out with warm soapy water if necessary.Baking soda rinse if they for some reason get any odor.I don't put anything but plain drinking water in them - no powdered mixes or juices or anything, then you get residues (sugar in most cases, = food for micro-critters) in there and harder to clean out etc.Water stays 'fresh' pretty much indefinitely if no sunlight on it and it was pure when it went in.Warmer temps support more growth, but if there's no light, still nothing much happens.For a month trip, I would have no worries in these or most any other decent potable water container.cheers,JohnOn 04/01/2019 08:02 AM, msminchome via montgomery_boats wrote:> The Smart Bottle looks interesting for maximizing available storage and minimizing waste. Any idea how long the water will stay fresh in these containers? I am planning a 30 day M15 cruise and am trying to provision for the entire trip. Storing 180 16 ounce water bottles takes a lot of space and leaves me with a bunch of empty bottles. Also, what do you have to do to reuse the Smart Bottle? Seems like some moisture will remain in the used bottle and over time will begin to grow bacteria.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design--------------------------------------------- Eco-Living -Whole Systems Design ServicesPeople - Place - Learning - Integrationjohn@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334http://eco-living.nethttp://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (11)
-
Bob Eeg -
Burton Lowry -
carlos navarro -
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Dave Scobie -
Gerry Lempicki -
John Schinnerer -
Les Schuldt -
msminchome -
Peter Zimowsky -
Steve Trapp