I am pretty new at this (this is my first boat) and I am not sure why this happens and am probably doing something very basic wrong. When pulling away from the pier I need to turn immediately to port to go down the row of slips and get out of the marina. Leaving the pier at low speed I push the tiller and motor steering arm to starboard but the boat does not respond - simply does not turn to port - keeps moving forward - slowly. In order to avoid a collision I have to move tiller and motor steering hard to port at which point the boat seems to catch and turn immediately to the starboard - so I end up having to make a very tight loop before I can exit down the row. I have a 4 hp 2 stroke Johnson mounted on the port side of the tiller. I must be missing something. Any thoughts? John, Oregon
John, your rudder will be slow to respond until you have enough water moving around it. My guess is by the time you do a loop, you have enough moving water to make your rudder responsive. This allows you to overcome the offset of your outboard. You just have a tight situation in your marina. I don't think you are doing anything wrong other than expecting the helm to react without adequate forward movement. It sounds like you have overcome the issue by doing a loop. Cheers, Mark SF Bay -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Ledger Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:20 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor I am pretty new at this (this is my first boat) and I am not sure why this happens and am probably doing something very basic wrong. When pulling away from the pier I need to turn immediately to port to go down the row of slips and get out of the marina. Leaving the pier at low speed I push the tiller and motor steering arm to starboard but the boat does not respond - simply does not turn to port - keeps moving forward - slowly. In order to avoid a collision I have to move tiller and motor steering hard to port at which point the boat seems to catch and turn immediately to the starboard - so I end up having to make a very tight loop before I can exit down the row. I have a 4 hp 2 stroke Johnson mounted on the port side of the tiller. I must be missing something. Any thoughts? John, Oregon
Mark, Thanks, makes perfect sense. This is a very helpful forum. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gaffney Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:49 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor John, your rudder will be slow to respond until you have enough water moving around it. My guess is by the time you do a loop, you have enough moving water to make your rudder responsive. This allows you to overcome the offset of your outboard. You just have a tight situation in your marina. I don't think you are doing anything wrong other than expecting the helm to react without adequate forward movement. It sounds like you have overcome the issue by doing a loop. Cheers, Mark SF Bay
Where in Oregon are you sailing? I found the current on the Willamette River could sometimes overpower my rudder, more so on the Columbia River, on Dexter Resevoir or Detroit Lake it would depend on how much water was being released by the dams, but on Fern Ridge Resevoir things were calmer, but the marina is tight for space. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ledger" <johnledger@aoi.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:46 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor Mark, Thanks, makes perfect sense. This is a very helpful forum. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gaffney Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:49 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor John, your rudder will be slow to respond until you have enough water moving around it. My guess is by the time you do a loop, you have enough moving water to make your rudder responsive. This allows you to overcome the offset of your outboard. You just have a tight situation in your marina. I don't think you are doing anything wrong other than expecting the helm to react without adequate forward movement. It sounds like you have overcome the issue by doing a loop. Cheers, Mark SF Bay ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6286 - Release Date: 04/30/13
Hi Steve, Fern Ridge, Orchard Point. Haven't tried the Columbia yet. There's a lot going on on that river. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stevetrapp Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor Where in Oregon are you sailing? I found the current on the Willamette River could sometimes overpower my rudder, more so on the Columbia River, on Dexter Resevoir or Detroit Lake it would depend on how much water was being released by the dams, but on Fern Ridge Resevoir things were calmer, but the marina is tight for space. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ledger" <johnledger@aoi.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:46 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor Mark, Thanks, makes perfect sense. This is a very helpful forum. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gaffney Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:49 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor John, your rudder will be slow to respond until you have enough water moving around it. My guess is by the time you do a loop, you have enough moving water to make your rudder responsive. This allows you to overcome the offset of your outboard. You just have a tight situation in your marina. I don't think you are doing anything wrong other than expecting the helm to react without adequate forward movement. It sounds like you have overcome the issue by doing a loop. Cheers, Mark SF Bay ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6286 - Release Date: 04/30/13
I think Fern Ridge is a better choice for sailing than the rivers, or other resevoirs. Good that you are sailing there. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ledger" <johnledger@aoi.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:04 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor Hi Steve, Fern Ridge, Orchard Point. Haven't tried the Columbia yet. There's a lot going on on that river. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stevetrapp Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor Where in Oregon are you sailing? I found the current on the Willamette River could sometimes overpower my rudder, more so on the Columbia River, on Dexter Resevoir or Detroit Lake it would depend on how much water was being released by the dams, but on Fern Ridge Resevoir things were calmer, but the marina is tight for space. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ledger" <johnledger@aoi.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:46 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor Mark, Thanks, makes perfect sense. This is a very helpful forum. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gaffney Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:49 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor John, your rudder will be slow to respond until you have enough water moving around it. My guess is by the time you do a loop, you have enough moving water to make your rudder responsive. This allows you to overcome the offset of your outboard. You just have a tight situation in your marina. I don't think you are doing anything wrong other than expecting the helm to react without adequate forward movement. It sounds like you have overcome the issue by doing a loop. Cheers, Mark SF Bay ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6286 - Release Date: 04/30/13 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6287 - Release Date: 04/30/13
On 01-May-13 3:38 PM, stevetrapp wrote: Hi John, If you are trying to "steer" an M15 using just the outboard, that works provided the M15 is moving through the water. Then you can steer using the outboard, however, if you shut off the outboard you will have "0" steering capability. The surface area of the outboard "leg" is too small to give you any sort of rudder control at low speeds. Using the rudder for directional control is a totally different operation. It has a large area underwater, and gives you excellent control at very slow speeds. I always used the rudder for steering the M15. Start the outboard, and then use the rudder for primary directional control. If you have to back out of a slip, then you will have to use the outboard to do that. Start the outboard; rotate it 180 degrees so that it is pulling you out of your slip; and as soon as you are clear of the dock and can turn the boat to head out, rotate the outboard so that it now drives you forward; and then use the rudder for primary directional control. Wind direction at your dock will also determine how you can leave your slip. If you are lucky enough that you have a slip where you have the prevailing wind on the bow, then you can unfasten your mooring lines, and give the M15 a push as you hop aboard. As your M15 is backed out, once clear of the pier, raise the jib and sail out on a broad reach. When totally clear of the dock area, then head into the wind and raise the main. This is easily doable with a bit of thought as to how to do it and with some practice. An M15 is small enough and light enough so that you can pretty much sail it into the slip, and stop the boat by grabbing the dock and act as a boat-brake. I'm afraid I don't understand what you are talking about when you say that the current in the Willamette River overpowers the rudder. Two fingers holding the tiller should let you point the M15 anywhere you would like to head in the river. The greater the water flow rate over the rudder surface, the better your control. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
I think Fern Ridge is a better choice for sailing than the rivers, or other resevoirs. Good that you are sailing there. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ledger" <johnledger@aoi.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:04 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor
Hi Steve,
Fern Ridge, Orchard Point. Haven't tried the Columbia yet. There's a lot going on on that river.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stevetrapp Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor
Where in Oregon are you sailing? I found the current on the Willamette River could sometimes overpower my rudder, more so on the Columbia River, on Dexter Resevoir or Detroit Lake it would depend on how much water was being released by the dams, but on Fern Ridge Resevoir things were calmer, but the marina is tight for space. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ledger" <johnledger@aoi.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:46 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor
Mark,
Thanks, makes perfect sense.
This is a very helpful forum.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gaffney Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:49 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor
John, your rudder will be slow to respond until you have enough water moving around it. My guess is by the time you do a loop, you have enough moving water to make your rudder responsive. This allows you to overcome the offset of your outboard. You just have a tight situation in your marina. I don't think you are doing anything wrong other than expecting the helm to react without adequate forward movement. It sounds like you have overcome the issue by doing a loop.
Cheers,
Mark SF Bay
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6286 - Release Date: 04/30/13
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6287 - Release Date: 04/30/13
participants (4)
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Conbert Benneck -
John Ledger -
Mark Gaffney -
stevetrapp