Hi Harry, Welcome to the group. You raise some interesting points for an off season discussion. I have been pondering a post I read here (I think) recently about the difficulty of using a single oar as an Oriental yuloh. I believe the geometry is wrong for efficient use of oars with our small boats. Our boats have a narrow beam, short cockpit and high freeboard. If you place an oarlock on the top of the coaming or transom, you have poor leverage for seated rowing or use of a yuloh (yulohing?). Some people stand up, which increases the angle of the blade in the water, and improves the leverage situation by allowing use of a shorter oar. I would be comfortable standing in calm water, but not in extreme conditions. So…if I HAD to use an oar I would think about installing oar ports. The ports would be located about waist high along the sides if I wanted to row or in the transom for a yuloh. Bolger has used oar ports as did the Dovekie. In extreme weather the ports could also function as cockpit scuppers or be closed off if necessary. Ports would also have the advantage of allowing the use of shorter oars. Or..I would consider using some sort of an arm that would locate the oar lock several feet outboard. The leverage situation would be improved, although longer oars would be needed. Modern racing shells often have oar locks mounted outboard. And..I would give a lot of thought to a sliding seat with a pivoting brace for the feet. steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY ************************************************ Greetings from N. shore of L. Superior: -15F,snow& wind last couple of nights but at least my M15 is safely tucked away in its dome shelter! Bob Eeg's tale of the specially equipped M17 that he constructed for the Austrian man was fascinating and raised a couple of questions about the M15: (1) Has anyone tried rowing one, and if so how was it? and (2) What were the worst conditions a M15 has survived intact (wind, waves) with all sails down and only motor power? Pardon me if these questions have been asked before- I joined just last year. If they have please point me in the right direction and I'll check it out. Thanks and safe sailing to the lucky souls in the south. Harry Elmslie
Rowing the M17: Check out the Strawanza photos at the following link. Bob Eeg mounted oarlocks on the toe rail track and used 12-foot break- down oars. http://www.MSOGPhotoSite.com/mpage.htm I'm playing around with the idea of a Japanese sculling oar design, called a "Ro", ironically. It places the blade vertically at rest rather than horizontally and may be more efficient. The following web site discusses that design with video. http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/howto/sculling_oar/ --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. On Dec 2, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Steve R. wrote:
Hi Harry,
Welcome to the group.
You raise some interesting points for an off season discussion.
I have been pondering a post I read here (I think) recently about the difficulty of using a single oar as an Oriental yuloh. I believe the geometry is wrong for efficient use of oars with our small boats. Our boats have a narrow beam, short cockpit and high freeboard. If you place an oarlock on the top of the coaming or transom, you have poor leverage for seated rowing or use of a yuloh (yulohing?). Some people stand up, which increases the angle of the blade in the water, and improves the leverage situation by allowing use of a shorter oar. I would be comfortable standing in calm water, but not in extreme conditions.
So…if I HAD to use an oar I would think about installing oar ports. The ports would be located about waist high along the sides if I wanted to row or in the transom for a yuloh. Bolger has used oar ports as did the Dovekie. In extreme weather the ports could also function as cockpit scuppers or be closed off if necessary. Ports would also have the advantage of allowing the use of shorter oars.
Or..I would consider using some sort of an arm that would locate the oar lock several feet outboard. The leverage situation would be improved, although longer oars would be needed. Modern racing shells often have oar locks mounted outboard.
And..I would give a lot of thought to a sliding seat with a pivoting brace for the feet.
steve
Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY
************************************************
Greetings from N. shore of L. Superior: -15F,snow& wind last couple of nights but at least my M15 is safely tucked away in its dome shelter! Bob Eeg's tale of the specially equipped M17 that he constructed for the Austrian man was fascinating and raised a couple of questions about the M15: (1) Has anyone tried rowing one, and if so how was it? and (2) What were the worst conditions a M15 has survived intact (wind, waves) with all sails down and only motor power? Pardon me if these questions have been asked before- I joined just last year. If they have please point me in the right direction and I'll check it out. Thanks and safe sailing to the lucky souls in the south. Harry Elmslie
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
I thought the way Bob put those oarlocks on was pretty neat. Have wondered how well it worked to row the boat. I've also heard of guys fitting oar locks into the top of sheet winches, which are about the right location, but that leaves the oar height somewhat high. On the Japanese sculling oar, I've built one of those too. First attempt was a crude one to see how well it worked. Initial attempt on the Spindrift was disappointing as it didn't want to rotate in the oarlock, so I went back and modified it some. Didn't have a chance to try it again and it's gotten pretty cold now for boating. I think it might work, but so would the other one. http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/haudsley/Picture260.jpg http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/haudsley/Picture262.jpg http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/haudsley/Picture263.jpg The Spindrift gets rowed or sailed. The oars on it do pretty well and 1.5 to 2 knots is pretty easy to get. You can cover a lot of ground doing 2 knots. This was just playing around on it. I view the rowing option on the Montgomery as a third, emergency form of propulsion. Something I know will work when there is no wind and the motor won't start. Gary M Hyde wrote:
Rowing the M17: Check out the Strawanza photos at the following link. Bob Eeg mounted oarlocks on the toe rail track and used 12-foot break-down oars. http://www.MSOGPhotoSite.com/mpage.htm
I'm playing around with the idea of a Japanese sculling oar design, called a "Ro", ironically. It places the blade vertically at rest rather than horizontally and may be more efficient. The following web site discusses that design with video. http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/howto/sculling_oar/
--Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails.
On Dec 2, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Steve R. wrote:
Hi Harry,
Welcome to the group.
You raise some interesting points for an off season discussion.
I have been pondering a post I read here (I think) recently about the difficulty of using a single oar as an Oriental yuloh. I believe the geometry is wrong for efficient use of oars with our small boats. Our boats have a narrow beam, short cockpit and high freeboard. If you place an oarlock on the top of the coaming or transom, you have poor leverage for seated rowing or use of a yuloh (yulohing?). Some people stand up, which increases the angle of the blade in the water, and improves the leverage situation by allowing use of a shorter oar. I would be comfortable standing in calm water, but not in extreme conditions.
SoÂ…if I HAD to use an oar I would think about installing oar ports. The ports would be located about waist high along the sides if I wanted to row or in the transom for a yuloh. Bolger has used oar ports as did the Dovekie. In extreme weather the ports could also function as cockpit scuppers or be closed off if necessary. Ports would also have the advantage of allowing the use of shorter oars.
Or..I would consider using some sort of an arm that would locate the oar lock several feet outboard. The leverage situation would be improved, although longer oars would be needed. Modern racing shells often have oar locks mounted outboard.
And..I would give a lot of thought to a sliding seat with a pivoting brace for the feet.
steve
Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY
************************************************
Greetings from N. shore of L. Superior: -15F,snow& wind last couple of nights but at least my M15 is safely tucked away in its dome shelter! Bob Eeg's tale of the specially equipped M17 that he constructed for the Austrian man was fascinating and raised a couple of questions about the M15: (1) Has anyone tried rowing one, and if so how was it? and (2) What were the worst conditions a M15 has survived intact (wind, waves) with all sails down and only motor power? Pardon me if these questions have been asked before- I joined just last year. If they have please point me in the right direction and I'll check it out. Thanks and safe sailing to the lucky souls in the south. Harry Elmslie
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Howard: Nice photos. Oar looks kinda like what I'm contemplating. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. On Dec 3, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Howard wrote:
I thought the way Bob put those oarlocks on was pretty neat. Have wondered how well it worked to row the boat. I've also heard of guys fitting oar locks into the top of sheet winches, which are about the right location, but that leaves the oar height somewhat high.
On the Japanese sculling oar, I've built one of those too. First attempt was a crude one to see how well it worked. Initial attempt on the Spindrift was disappointing as it didn't want to rotate in the oarlock, so I went back and modified it some. Didn't have a chance to try it again and it's gotten pretty cold now for boating. I think it might work, but so would the other one.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/haudsley/Picture260.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/haudsley/Picture262.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/haudsley/Picture263.jpg
The Spindrift gets rowed or sailed. The oars on it do pretty well and 1.5 to 2 knots is pretty easy to get. You can cover a lot of ground doing 2 knots. This was just playing around on it. I view the rowing option on the Montgomery as a third, emergency form of propulsion. Something I know will work when there is no wind and the motor won't start.
Gary M Hyde wrote:
Rowing the M17: Check out the Strawanza photos at the following link. Bob Eeg mounted oarlocks on the toe rail track and used 12- foot break-down oars. http://www.MSOGPhotoSite.com/mpage.htm
I'm playing around with the idea of a Japanese sculling oar design, called a "Ro", ironically. It places the blade vertically at rest rather than horizontally and may be more efficient. The following web site discusses that design with video. http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/articles/howto/sculling_oar/
--Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails.
On Dec 2, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Steve R. wrote:
Hi Harry,
Welcome to the group.
You raise some interesting points for an off season discussion.
I have been pondering a post I read here (I think) recently about the difficulty of using a single oar as an Oriental yuloh. I believe the geometry is wrong for efficient use of oars with our small boats. Our boats have a narrow beam, short cockpit and high freeboard. If you place an oarlock on the top of the coaming or transom, you have poor leverage for seated rowing or use of a yuloh (yulohing?). Some people stand up, which increases the angle of the blade in the water, and improves the leverage situation by allowing use of a shorter oar. I would be comfortable standing in calm water, but not in extreme conditions.
So…if I HAD to use an oar I would think about installing oar ports. The ports would be located about waist high along the sides if I wanted to row or in the transom for a yuloh. Bolger has used oar ports as did the Dovekie. In extreme weather the ports could also function as cockpit scuppers or be closed off if necessary. Ports would also have the advantage of allowing the use of shorter oars.
Or..I would consider using some sort of an arm that would locate the oar lock several feet outboard. The leverage situation would be improved, although longer oars would be needed. Modern racing shells often have oar locks mounted outboard.
And..I would give a lot of thought to a sliding seat with a pivoting brace for the feet.
steve
Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY
************************************************
Greetings from N. shore of L. Superior: -15F,snow& wind last couple of nights but at least my M15 is safely tucked away in its dome shelter! Bob Eeg's tale of the specially equipped M17 that he constructed for the Austrian man was fascinating and raised a couple of questions about the M15: (1) Has anyone tried rowing one, and if so how was it? and (2) What were the worst conditions a M15 has survived intact (wind, waves) with all sails down and only motor power? Pardon me if these questions have been asked before- I joined just last year. If they have please point me in the right direction and I'll check it out. Thanks and safe sailing to the lucky souls in the south. Harry Elmslie
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
participants (3)
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Gary M Hyde -
Howard -
Steve R.