ok ... try this again (yahoo mail has become increasingly bad as it does 'strange' things and pages refuse to load!).   i've read many times when searching old forum posts the terms 'snug but not tight' from jerry and bob.  i had no idea what this meant.  so ... i did my best guess and likely had the uppers too loose, lowers to tight, and the for/aft too loose.   my rigging was more of a challenge as SWEET PEA's prior owner had jerry make new standing rigging and never rigged the boat.  so ... nothing was dialed in!  after some fiddling was able to get the mast to stay up as jerry REALLY cut the rear and fore-stays short!   i feel i have dialed the boat after spending about an hour 'feeling' larry yake's CORN DOG at the MSOG san juan trip in june '09.  i figured that larry sails a FAST m17 so he must have the standing rigging right!   i still feel i have WAY to much rake on the mast (jerry you REALLY made the fore and aft stays a bit short). the port and starboard tension across the spreaders seems good.   the fore and aft are a bit of work.  the aft stay are hooked 'reversed' on the transom to gain about 1/2" of reach.  still, i need to have the turnbuckle with only a few threads to get the forstay hooked to the bow (the forestay turnbuckle has just enough threads to but in cotter keys).  even now, and the wire has stretched, if i didn't have the main halyard winch on the cabin top i would not be able to put enough tension forward to get the forestay to hook to the bow.  i estimate after i have one-and-a-half to 1-to-3/4 feet of mast rake to the rear.  i've read the rake should be about one foot.   anyhow ... things will stretch over time and the boat does sail well ... and there are some wrinkles i can't get out of the main because of the rake (see the san juan photos of '09)     dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> wrote: Thanks Jerry. How much slack or better put, tension, should I have in my shrouds? Forestay & Backstay?? Joe