Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable. David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
I never had an M17, but on my C22 w/ 6hp motor, I found that the fuel consumption was so strongly dependent on small changes in speed, I could go almost as far or as short a distance as I wanted on the 5 gallon tank by just making small changes to the throttle. Since the fluid drag on the boat (the main force at speeds well below hull speed) is proportional to the square of the velocity. This means, for example that you will use approx. 4 times as much fuel to go 4 knots as 2 knots, 2 knots uses 4 times the fuel of 1 knot and so on. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Leckie" <leckie.jas@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:29:17 AM Subject: M_Boats: Cruising San Juans and Gulf Islands Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable. David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
Jason: One gas can that holds 2.5 gal and a second holds 1.25 gal (both are made by No-spill). My 'rule' is collect fuel when I can (the corollary is dump porta-potti when can) even when I still have fuel. The Suzuki 4 burns about 1/4-gallon/hour at a cruise speed of 4.7-4.8 knots. August is the middle, usually, of the no-wind season so be prepared and go with the current. Also called Fogust. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Jul 31, 2018 8:30 AM, "Jason Leckie" <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote: Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable. David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
There are quite a few places you can refuel, in those areas, so unless you want to be a complete hermit, you don't need to carry fuel for the entire voyage from the start (fill whenever you can, as Dave says). I bought an external 3-gallon tank that fits in half the width of the rear of the M17 cockpit floor. So if I needed to I could put two of those in that space and have six gallons total. If you have a big 'ol 6 hp on an M17 you will seldom be operating above 1/2 throttle because that about gets you to hull speed. Ditto what Dave said also about lack of wind this time of year in that area, so you may be motoring quite a bit. cheers, John S. On 07/31/2018 08:29 AM, Jason Leckie wrote:
Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable.
David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks all, great information as usual! On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:07 AM John Schinnerer, <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
There are quite a few places you can refuel, in those areas, so unless you want to be a complete hermit, you don't need to carry fuel for the entire voyage from the start (fill whenever you can, as Dave says).
I bought an external 3-gallon tank that fits in half the width of the rear of the M17 cockpit floor. So if I needed to I could put two of those in that space and have six gallons total.
If you have a big 'ol 6 hp on an M17 you will seldom be operating above 1/2 throttle because that about gets you to hull speed.
Ditto what Dave said also about lack of wind this time of year in that area, so you may be motoring quite a bit.
cheers, John S.
On 07/31/2018 08:29 AM, Jason Leckie wrote:
Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable.
David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Do be prepared to burn some fuel and to buy refills where you can because the tides and currents in the Gulf Islands and the San Juans can run strongly against a sailor. Got a current tide table and good chart? If you don't get copies of both. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:07 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cruising San Juans and Gulf Islands There are quite a few places you can refuel, in those areas, so unless you want to be a complete hermit, you don't need to carry fuel for the entire voyage from the start (fill whenever you can, as Dave says). I bought an external 3-gallon tank that fits in half the width of the rear of the M17 cockpit floor. So if I needed to I could put two of those in that space and have six gallons total. If you have a big 'ol 6 hp on an M17 you will seldom be operating above 1/2 throttle because that about gets you to hull speed. Ditto what Dave said also about lack of wind this time of year in that area, so you may be motoring quite a bit. cheers, John S. On 07/31/2018 08:29 AM, Jason Leckie wrote:
Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable.
David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yep...part of the skill-building opportunities there for sail or paddle powered craft, planning passages to go with the flow so to speak, or at least not against it. Another item to prepare, if you're going to be on moorings in those areas, is a stand-off or hold-off that keeps your boat from bumping against the mooring. Partly because they are often crusted with barnacles etc. and will scrape your hull. Partly because it can be really annoying trying to sleep with random bumping noises all night long. A couple pieces of stiff plastic pipe with line through them will make a flexible but solid enough triangle between the mooring point and the bow and somewhere aft along the side of your boat. You can still swing with wind & current but not bump bump bump the mooring float. The only parts I've been to in the south end (so far) is Cypress island and James island (little marine park island just east of Decatur) island. Cypress has some nice hiking trails if you want to get off the boat and stretch your legs. Also camping on shore. A great high lookout point at one end. A small lake up in the middle also, no views there but it is swimmable. James is tiny, but pretty views and pleasant to walk around or picnic on, a dock & water trail campsite on the west side, a few moorings on the east side. We also went close by Strawberry island, a bit of rock & trees just west of Cypress. Up north in BC waters I've kayaked from Cortes over to camp on Martin islands, and then paddled around parts of Desolation sound to the east. There were lots of cruising boats in anchorages in that area, all types and sizes, motor and sail. There's a gorgeous freshwater lake, Unwin lake, a short hike up from a cove/landing about due east of Martin islands. Finally, speaking of fuel of another type - you'll want to top up your water whenever you can also. There's almost no fresh surface water in the islands (no streams or lakes along the way to get water from, with rare exceptions like Unwin lake). More an issue for paddlers camping their way along, with limited space/weight options. We can carry a heck of a lot more in our Montys, but still something to be aware of. I'll be kayaking in that same area in late August; hope to get my Monty at least to the San Juans later in September. cheers, John On 07/31/2018 10:43 AM, Steve Trapp wrote:
Do be prepared to burn some fuel and to buy refills where you can because the tides and currents in the Gulf Islands and the San Juans can run strongly against a sailor. Got a current tide table and good chart? If you don't get copies of both. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:07 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cruising San Juans and Gulf Islands
There are quite a few places you can refuel, in those areas, so unless you want to be a complete hermit, you don't need to carry fuel for the entire voyage from the start (fill whenever you can, as Dave says).
I bought an external 3-gallon tank that fits in half the width of the rear of the M17 cockpit floor. So if I needed to I could put two of those in that space and have six gallons total.
If you have a big 'ol 6 hp on an M17 you will seldom be operating above 1/2 throttle because that about gets you to hull speed.
Ditto what Dave said also about lack of wind this time of year in that area, so you may be motoring quite a bit.
cheers, John S.
On 07/31/2018 08:29 AM, Jason Leckie wrote:
Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable.
David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yes, I have good charts, gps provides tide tables for each location Thanks! On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:45 AM Steve Trapp, <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Do be prepared to burn some fuel and to buy refills where you can because the tides and currents in the Gulf Islands and the San Juans can run strongly against a sailor. Got a current tide table and good chart? If you don't get copies of both. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:07 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cruising San Juans and Gulf Islands
There are quite a few places you can refuel, in those areas, so unless you want to be a complete hermit, you don't need to carry fuel for the entire voyage from the start (fill whenever you can, as Dave says).
I bought an external 3-gallon tank that fits in half the width of the rear of the M17 cockpit floor. So if I needed to I could put two of those in that space and have six gallons total.
If you have a big 'ol 6 hp on an M17 you will seldom be operating above 1/2 throttle because that about gets you to hull speed.
Ditto what Dave said also about lack of wind this time of year in that area, so you may be motoring quite a bit.
cheers, John S.
On 07/31/2018 08:29 AM, Jason Leckie wrote:
Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable.
David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Have hard copy backups...if your devices die for any reason, you still don't want to... :-O John On 07/31/2018 12:35 PM, Jason Leckie wrote:
Yes, I have good charts, gps provides tide tables for each location
Thanks!
On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:45 AM Steve Trapp, <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Do be prepared to burn some fuel and to buy refills where you can because the tides and currents in the Gulf Islands and the San Juans can run strongly against a sailor. Got a current tide table and good chart? If you don't get copies of both. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:07 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cruising San Juans and Gulf Islands
There are quite a few places you can refuel, in those areas, so unless you want to be a complete hermit, you don't need to carry fuel for the entire voyage from the start (fill whenever you can, as Dave says).
I bought an external 3-gallon tank that fits in half the width of the rear of the M17 cockpit floor. So if I needed to I could put two of those in that space and have six gallons total.
If you have a big 'ol 6 hp on an M17 you will seldom be operating above 1/2 throttle because that about gets you to hull speed.
Ditto what Dave said also about lack of wind this time of year in that area, so you may be motoring quite a bit.
cheers, John S.
On 07/31/2018 08:29 AM, Jason Leckie wrote:
Just getting ready to do some cruising around the San Juans and Gulf Islands for the next couple of weeks and contemplating how much fuel to carry for my 6 hp four stroke engine. Not sure how much a little engine pushing a little boat (M17) would consume, if the winds are not agreeable.
David Scobie, how much fuel do you usually carry on your travels?
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I'm really interested in cruising this area. When is the best time of year to go for the best winds? Also, any recommendations for a good book with charts for puget sound?
Lawrence. Best time to go depends on your preferences: Best sailing, though more likely to have cooler temps and rain are May through mid-ish June and September and if lucky early October. The islands are also significantly less crowded! Poor sailing, just very little wind is the norm, is mid-June through end of August-ish. Lots of people and usually great temps and little rain. Best books: 'Cruising guide to Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands' by Migael Scherer. 'Dreamspeaker Cruising Guide'. A series of multiple volumes cover all the sections of the Salish Sea by Anne and Laurence Yeadon-Jones. 'Exploring the San Juan and Gulf Islands' by Don Douglass and Reanne Hemingway-Douglass. (Note: all the above are all getting somewhat 'long in the tooth' so micro-details can be incorrect - there are no recent published books that equal the overall quality of the above.) Now if you go you also need the Current Atlas for Juan de Fuca and Strait of Georgia and a tide/current tables (I recommend 'Ports and Passes' and 'Waggoner Tables'). These three are required as tides and currents will define your cruise. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Jul 31, 2018 12:58 PM, "Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I'm really interested in cruising this area. When is the best time of year to go for the best winds? Also, any recommendations for a good book with charts for puget sound?
Thank you Dave! I hope to get up up there. I've been steadily outfitting the boat. Heck that's fun in itself. I'll hopeto copy your boom tent design soon. Putting a bow eye in now. From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com>; For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 1:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cruising San Juans and Gulf Islands Lawrence. Best time to go depends on your preferences: Best sailing, though more likely to have cooler temps and rain are May through mid-ish June and September and if lucky early October. The islands are also significantly less crowded! Poor sailing, just very little wind is the norm, is mid-June through end of August-ish. Lots of people and usually great temps and little rain. Best books: 'Cruising guide to Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands' by Migael Scherer. 'Dreamspeaker Cruising Guide'. A series of multiple volumes cover all the sections of the Salish Sea by Anne and Laurence Yeadon-Jones. 'Exploring the San Juan and Gulf Islands' by Don Douglass and Reanne Hemingway-Douglass. (Note: all the above are all getting somewhat 'long in the tooth' so micro-details can be incorrect - there are no recent published books that equal the overall quality of the above.) Now if you go you also need the Current Atlas for Juan de Fuca and Strait of Georgia and a tide/current tables (I recommend 'Ports and Passes' and 'Waggoner Tables'). These three are required as tides and currents will define your cruise. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Jul 31, 2018 12:58 PM, "Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I'm really interested in cruising this area. When is the best time of year to go for the best winds? Also, any recommendations for a good book with charts for puget sound?
Hi Lawrence, Not really to do with the actual sailing but it is worth noting. Something that often people don't realize, counterintuitively, the warmer water is to the north (to a point). If you like swimming off the back of your boat you'll find Desolation Sound to be one of the best for that, the Northern Gulf Islands get pretty warm too. Also, Hotham Sound, that you don't often hear about has the Harmony Islands and is a great spot (with warm water) that I used to go to with my family when I was younger. If you go further inland up this fjord you will get to Princess Louisa Inlet which is a spectacularly narrow and deep fjord going from sea level to 5000 ft or more ringed with waterfalls and Chatterbox falls at the top end of the inlet. So many great anchorages and areas, you can visit year after year and never see it all. On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 1:31 PM Dave Scobie, <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Lawrence.
Best time to go depends on your preferences:
Best sailing, though more likely to have cooler temps and rain are May through mid-ish June and September and if lucky early October. The islands are also significantly less crowded!
Poor sailing, just very little wind is the norm, is mid-June through end of August-ish. Lots of people and usually great temps and little rain.
Best books:
'Cruising guide to Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands' by Migael Scherer.
'Dreamspeaker Cruising Guide'. A series of multiple volumes cover all the sections of the Salish Sea by Anne and Laurence Yeadon-Jones.
'Exploring the San Juan and Gulf Islands' by Don Douglass and Reanne Hemingway-Douglass.
(Note: all the above are all getting somewhat 'long in the tooth' so micro-details can be incorrect - there are no recent published books that equal the overall quality of the above.)
Now if you go you also need the Current Atlas for Juan de Fuca and Strait of Georgia and a tide/current tables (I recommend 'Ports and Passes' and 'Waggoner Tables'). These three are required as tides and currents will define your cruise.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Jul 31, 2018 12:58 PM, "Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm really interested in cruising this area.
When is the best time of year to go for the best winds? Also, any recommendations for a good book with charts for puget sound?
participants (6)
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Dave Scobie -
Jason Leckie -
John Schinnerer -
Lawrence Winiarski -
Steve Trapp