A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
It's an M-17...that may explain part of the difference...I'm 6' 3", if it were an M15 I'd have to be 5' 6"! :-) It's hull #38, built in 1974. The M-17s had transom cutouts for quite a while, someone else may know when that changed. No number on the sail as it's apparently not the original sail, or, numbers didn't get put on the original. It's not in great shape, but I think it's in too good of shape to be the original. The main is from North Sails - does anyone know what maker the original main would have been on a '74 M-17? The small jib is Reggie Armstrong which IIRC was an early sail supplier? As to the hull color, I am nearly certain it is not the original. There are a few rub spots where a more orange color (not white) shows through. I wasn't sure what to make of that, until I looked at the MSOG photo site owner registry recently and saw another M17 with original "custom gelcoat" hull color given as "Tangerine" (Windsong, here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=22), which in the photos looks pretty close to what is showing through the rub spots on my M17. This photo of "Dulce" shows a possibly similar orange-y red, prior to the repaint with the red Awlgrip: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer.php?objectid=25&obj... So I'm guessing I have an original "tangerine" hull gelcoat that at some point got painted over with the red you see. You can also see some duller looking, more reddish brown blotches here and there - again I'm not sure but it looks like they were attempts to cover rubbed areas or other small cosmetic finish defects with some other finish that didn't work out well visually. I'd love to have her hull perfectly bristol but my priority generally goes to sailing time and functional upgrades first... :-) cheers, John S. On 10/03/2016 02:29 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John, That explains the boat, and I can see that a M-17 would do better for a taller guy, I am on 5'6" so my M-15 suits me fine. Steve -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 3:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix It's an M-17...that may explain part of the difference...I'm 6' 3", if it were an M15 I'd have to be 5' 6"! :-) It's hull #38, built in 1974. The M-17s had transom cutouts for quite a while, someone else may know when that changed. No number on the sail as it's apparently not the original sail, or, numbers didn't get put on the original. It's not in great shape, but I think it's in too good of shape to be the original. The main is from North Sails - does anyone know what maker the original main would have been on a '74 M-17? The small jib is Reggie Armstrong which IIRC was an early sail supplier? As to the hull color, I am nearly certain it is not the original. There are a few rub spots where a more orange color (not white) shows through. I wasn't sure what to make of that, until I looked at the MSOG photo site owner registry recently and saw another M17 with original "custom gelcoat" hull color given as "Tangerine" (Windsong, here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=22), which in the photos looks pretty close to what is showing through the rub spots on my M17. This photo of "Dulce" shows a possibly similar orange-y red, prior to the repaint with the red Awlgrip: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer.php?objectid=25&obj... So I'm guessing I have an original "tangerine" hull gelcoat that at some point got painted over with the red you see. You can also see some duller looking, more reddish brown blotches here and there - again I'm not sure but it looks like they were attempts to cover rubbed areas or other small cosmetic finish defects with some other finish that didn't work out well visually. I'd love to have her hull perfectly bristol but my priority generally goes to sailing time and functional upgrades first... :-) cheers, John S. On 10/03/2016 02:29 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yes, early M17s usually carried Reggie Armstrong sails so your jib probably is original and your main is not. At 42 years old, that jib has lived almost as many lives as a cat, but you probably knew that already. Interesting that your main has 3 reefs. That 3rd reef would correspond with some pretty hardcore sailing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:07:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix It's an M-17...that may explain part of the difference...I'm 6' 3", if it were an M15 I'd have to be 5' 6"! :-) It's hull #38, built in 1974. The M-17s had transom cutouts for quite a while, someone else may know when that changed. No number on the sail as it's apparently not the original sail, or, numbers didn't get put on the original. It's not in great shape, but I think it's in too good of shape to be the original. The main is from North Sails - does anyone know what maker the original main would have been on a '74 M-17? The small jib is Reggie Armstrong which IIRC was an early sail supplier? As to the hull color, I am nearly certain it is not the original. There are a few rub spots where a more orange color (not white) shows through. I wasn't sure what to make of that, until I looked at the MSOG photo site owner registry recently and saw another M17 with original "custom gelcoat" hull color given as "Tangerine" (Windsong, here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=22), which in the photos looks pretty close to what is showing through the rub spots on my M17. This photo of "Dulce" shows a possibly similar orange-y red, prior to the repaint with the red Awlgrip: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer.php?objectid=25&obj... So I'm guessing I have an original "tangerine" hull gelcoat that at some point got painted over with the red you see. You can also see some duller looking, more reddish brown blotches here and there - again I'm not sure but it looks like they were attempts to cover rubbed areas or other small cosmetic finish defects with some other finish that didn't work out well visually. I'd love to have her hull perfectly bristol but my priority generally goes to sailing time and functional upgrades first... :-) cheers, John S. On 10/03/2016 02:29 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yeah, I was pretty pleased to acquire a newer main with three reefs with the boat. So far I've only used the first reef...not sure I want to be out on the water when the third might be required! Glad to have the option though. The 'small' jib has the Reggie Armstrong label on it, yes. It is rather stretched, and flappy in the leach, probably the original. I need to look again at the cruising jib (the big one) as I can't recall what maker was on it if any. I've only used it a few times so far. cheers, John S. On 10/04/2016 08:49 AM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Yes, early M17s usually carried Reggie Armstrong sails so your jib probably is original and your main is not.
At 42 years old, that jib has lived almost as many lives as a cat, but you probably knew that already.
Interesting that your main has 3 reefs. That 3rd reef would correspond with some pretty hardcore sailing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:07:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
It's an M-17...that may explain part of the difference...I'm 6' 3", if it were an M15 I'd have to be 5' 6"! :-)
It's hull #38, built in 1974. The M-17s had transom cutouts for quite a while, someone else may know when that changed.
No number on the sail as it's apparently not the original sail, or, numbers didn't get put on the original. It's not in great shape, but I think it's in too good of shape to be the original. The main is from North Sails - does anyone know what maker the original main would have been on a '74 M-17? The small jib is Reggie Armstrong which IIRC was an early sail supplier?
As to the hull color, I am nearly certain it is not the original. There are a few rub spots where a more orange color (not white) shows through. I wasn't sure what to make of that, until I looked at the MSOG photo site owner registry recently and saw another M17 with original "custom gelcoat" hull color given as "Tangerine" (Windsong, here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=22), which in the photos looks pretty close to what is showing through the rub spots on my M17. This photo of "Dulce" shows a possibly similar orange-y red, prior to the repaint with the red Awlgrip: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer.php?objectid=25&obj...
So I'm guessing I have an original "tangerine" hull gelcoat that at some point got painted over with the red you see. You can also see some duller looking, more reddish brown blotches here and there - again I'm not sure but it looks like they were attempts to cover rubbed areas or other small cosmetic finish defects with some other finish that didn't work out well visually. I'd love to have her hull perfectly bristol but my priority generally goes to sailing time and functional upgrades first... :-)
cheers, John S.
On 10/03/2016 02:29 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Speaking of sails...a few questions about M17 suite of sails. My M17 from 1974 came with the newer main with three reefs, all good there. I also got the "small" jib, which indicates on its bag that it is best used with the first reef in the main. It's not a full on storm jib. It does work very well with first reef in main. Also works OK with full main when the "big" jib would be overpowered - speaking of which... And, I got the "big" jib, which on its bag indicates that it is the "cruising" genoa. I assume (but don't know for sure) that it's the 150% "normal" cruising jib for the M17. First off, is that the "OEM" set of jibs, those two? Second off, is there something in between those two, either OEM or that anyone has found appropriate from experience? It's a pretty big gap between the two, in terms of sail area. Seems like an intermediate size would be more versatile for a range of wind conditions than just the rather small or the very big options...? Or maybe I'm missing something basic about the nature of the M17 rig. Any info/experiences appreciated. cheers, John S. On 10/04/2016 12:11 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Yeah, I was pretty pleased to acquire a newer main with three reefs with the boat. So far I've only used the first reef...not sure I want to be out on the water when the third might be required! Glad to have the option though.
The 'small' jib has the Reggie Armstrong label on it, yes. It is rather stretched, and flappy in the leach, probably the original.
I need to look again at the cruising jib (the big one) as I can't recall what maker was on it if any. I've only used it a few times so far.
cheers, John S.
On 10/04/2016 08:49 AM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Yes, early M17s usually carried Reggie Armstrong sails so your jib probably is original and your main is not.
At 42 years old, that jib has lived almost as many lives as a cat, but you probably knew that already.
Interesting that your main has 3 reefs. That 3rd reef would correspond with some pretty hardcore sailing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:07:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
It's an M-17...that may explain part of the difference...I'm 6' 3", if it were an M15 I'd have to be 5' 6"! :-)
It's hull #38, built in 1974. The M-17s had transom cutouts for quite a while, someone else may know when that changed.
No number on the sail as it's apparently not the original sail, or, numbers didn't get put on the original. It's not in great shape, but I think it's in too good of shape to be the original. The main is from North Sails - does anyone know what maker the original main would have been on a '74 M-17? The small jib is Reggie Armstrong which IIRC was an early sail supplier?
As to the hull color, I am nearly certain it is not the original. There are a few rub spots where a more orange color (not white) shows through. I wasn't sure what to make of that, until I looked at the MSOG photo site owner registry recently and saw another M17 with original "custom gelcoat" hull color given as "Tangerine" (Windsong, here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=22), which in the photos looks pretty close to what is showing through the rub spots on my M17. This photo of "Dulce" shows a possibly similar orange-y red, prior to the repaint with the red Awlgrip: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer.php?objectid=25&obj...
So I'm guessing I have an original "tangerine" hull gelcoat that at some point got painted over with the red you see. You can also see some duller looking, more reddish brown blotches here and there - again I'm not sure but it looks like they were attempts to cover rubbed areas or other small cosmetic finish defects with some other finish that didn't work out well visually. I'd love to have her hull perfectly bristol but my priority generally goes to sailing time and functional upgrades first... :-)
cheers, John S.
On 10/03/2016 02:29 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
The small jib probably is an o.e. working jib which I believe is a 110 on an M17. I don't know about M boats but genoas usually are extra cost options. For hank on sails a 150 is pretty typical so that is probably what you have. With our masthead rigs you will get better performance by reefing the main before reducing sail up front so the advice on the sailbag is sound, at least if you have crew. Single handed you might sacrifice a little performance for the convenience of not having to wrestle with the full genoa in a strong breeze. Would it be nice to have a sail in between? Of course it would and that is why the deities created roller furling. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 4:40:19 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 sails Speaking of sails...a few questions about M17 suite of sails. My M17 from 1974 came with the newer main with three reefs, all good there. I also got the "small" jib, which indicates on its bag that it is best used with the first reef in the main. It's not a full on storm jib. It does work very well with first reef in main. Also works OK with full main when the "big" jib would be overpowered - speaking of which... And, I got the "big" jib, which on its bag indicates that it is the "cruising" genoa. I assume (but don't know for sure) that it's the 150% "normal" cruising jib for the M17. First off, is that the "OEM" set of jibs, those two? Second off, is there something in between those two, either OEM or that anyone has found appropriate from experience? It's a pretty big gap between the two, in terms of sail area. Seems like an intermediate size would be more versatile for a range of wind conditions than just the rather small or the very big options...? Or maybe I'm missing something basic about the nature of the M17 rig. Any info/experiences appreciated. cheers, John S. On 10/04/2016 12:11 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Yeah, I was pretty pleased to acquire a newer main with three reefs with the boat. So far I've only used the first reef...not sure I want to be out on the water when the third might be required! Glad to have the option though.
The 'small' jib has the Reggie Armstrong label on it, yes. It is rather stretched, and flappy in the leach, probably the original.
I need to look again at the cruising jib (the big one) as I can't recall what maker was on it if any. I've only used it a few times so far.
cheers, John S.
On 10/04/2016 08:49 AM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Yes, early M17s usually carried Reggie Armstrong sails so your jib probably is original and your main is not.
At 42 years old, that jib has lived almost as many lives as a cat, but you probably knew that already.
Interesting that your main has 3 reefs. That 3rd reef would correspond with some pretty hardcore sailing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:07:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
It's an M-17...that may explain part of the difference...I'm 6' 3", if it were an M15 I'd have to be 5' 6"! :-)
It's hull #38, built in 1974. The M-17s had transom cutouts for quite a while, someone else may know when that changed.
No number on the sail as it's apparently not the original sail, or, numbers didn't get put on the original. It's not in great shape, but I think it's in too good of shape to be the original. The main is from North Sails - does anyone know what maker the original main would have been on a '74 M-17? The small jib is Reggie Armstrong which IIRC was an early sail supplier?
As to the hull color, I am nearly certain it is not the original. There are a few rub spots where a more orange color (not white) shows through. I wasn't sure what to make of that, until I looked at the MSOG photo site owner registry recently and saw another M17 with original "custom gelcoat" hull color given as "Tangerine" (Windsong, here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=22), which in the photos looks pretty close to what is showing through the rub spots on my M17. This photo of "Dulce" shows a possibly similar orange-y red, prior to the repaint with the red Awlgrip: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer.php?objectid=25&obj...
So I'm guessing I have an original "tangerine" hull gelcoat that at some point got painted over with the red you see. You can also see some duller looking, more reddish brown blotches here and there - again I'm not sure but it looks like they were attempts to cover rubbed areas or other small cosmetic finish defects with some other finish that didn't work out well visually. I'd love to have her hull perfectly bristol but my priority generally goes to sailing time and functional upgrades first... :-)
cheers, John S.
On 10/03/2016 02:29 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Without looking it up, I think the working jib on the M-17 is a 109. -----Original Message----- From: swwheatley@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 9:36 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 sails The small jib probably is an o.e. working jib which I believe is a 110 on an M17. I don't know about M boats but genoas usually are extra cost options. For hank on sails a 150 is pretty typical so that is probably what you have. With our masthead rigs you will get better performance by reefing the main before reducing sail up front so the advice on the sailbag is sound, at least if you have crew. Single handed you might sacrifice a little performance for the convenience of not having to wrestle with the full genoa in a strong breeze. Would it be nice to have a sail in between? Of course it would and that is why the deities created roller furling. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 4:40:19 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 sails Speaking of sails...a few questions about M17 suite of sails. My M17 from 1974 came with the newer main with three reefs, all good there. I also got the "small" jib, which indicates on its bag that it is best used with the first reef in the main. It's not a full on storm jib. It does work very well with first reef in main. Also works OK with full main when the "big" jib would be overpowered - speaking of which... And, I got the "big" jib, which on its bag indicates that it is the "cruising" genoa. I assume (but don't know for sure) that it's the 150% "normal" cruising jib for the M17. First off, is that the "OEM" set of jibs, those two? Second off, is there something in between those two, either OEM or that anyone has found appropriate from experience? It's a pretty big gap between the two, in terms of sail area. Seems like an intermediate size would be more versatile for a range of wind conditions than just the rather small or the very big options...? Or maybe I'm missing something basic about the nature of the M17 rig. Any info/experiences appreciated. cheers, John S. On 10/04/2016 12:11 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Yeah, I was pretty pleased to acquire a newer main with three reefs with the boat. So far I've only used the first reef...not sure I want to be out on the water when the third might be required! Glad to have the option though.
The 'small' jib has the Reggie Armstrong label on it, yes. It is rather stretched, and flappy in the leach, probably the original.
I need to look again at the cruising jib (the big one) as I can't recall what maker was on it if any. I've only used it a few times so far.
cheers, John S.
On 10/04/2016 08:49 AM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Yes, early M17s usually carried Reggie Armstrong sails so your jib probably is original and your main is not.
At 42 years old, that jib has lived almost as many lives as a cat, but you probably knew that already.
Interesting that your main has 3 reefs. That 3rd reef would correspond with some pretty hardcore sailing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:07:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
It's an M-17...that may explain part of the difference...I'm 6' 3", if it were an M15 I'd have to be 5' 6"! :-)
It's hull #38, built in 1974. The M-17s had transom cutouts for quite a while, someone else may know when that changed.
No number on the sail as it's apparently not the original sail, or, numbers didn't get put on the original. It's not in great shape, but I think it's in too good of shape to be the original. The main is from North Sails - does anyone know what maker the original main would have been on a '74 M-17? The small jib is Reggie Armstrong which IIRC was an early sail supplier?
As to the hull color, I am nearly certain it is not the original. There are a few rub spots where a more orange color (not white) shows through. I wasn't sure what to make of that, until I looked at the MSOG photo site owner registry recently and saw another M17 with original "custom gelcoat" hull color given as "Tangerine" (Windsong, here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=22), which in the photos looks pretty close to what is showing through the rub spots on my M17. This photo of "Dulce" shows a possibly similar orange-y red, prior to the repaint with the red Awlgrip: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer.php?objectid=25&obj...
So I'm guessing I have an original "tangerine" hull gelcoat that at some point got painted over with the red you see. You can also see some duller looking, more reddish brown blotches here and there - again I'm not sure but it looks like they were attempts to cover rubbed areas or other small cosmetic finish defects with some other finish that didn't work out well visually. I'd love to have her hull perfectly bristol but my priority generally goes to sailing time and functional upgrades first... :-)
cheers, John S.
On 10/03/2016 02:29 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 12464 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Nice pics! I have the Reggie sails on my 78...they're very similar to bed sheets! Jazz On Oct 4, 2016 8:50 AM, <swwheatley@comcast.net> wrote:
Yes, early M17s usually carried Reggie Armstrong sails so your jib probably is original and your main is not.
At 42 years old, that jib has lived almost as many lives as a cat, but you probably knew that already.
Interesting that your main has 3 reefs. That 3rd reef would correspond with some pretty hardcore sailing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman. xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:07:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
It's an M-17...that may explain part of the difference...I'm 6' 3", if it were an M15 I'd have to be 5' 6"! :-)
It's hull #38, built in 1974. The M-17s had transom cutouts for quite a while, someone else may know when that changed.
No number on the sail as it's apparently not the original sail, or, numbers didn't get put on the original. It's not in great shape, but I think it's in too good of shape to be the original. The main is from North Sails - does anyone know what maker the original main would have been on a '74 M-17? The small jib is Reggie Armstrong which IIRC was an early sail supplier?
As to the hull color, I am nearly certain it is not the original. There are a few rub spots where a more orange color (not white) shows through. I wasn't sure what to make of that, until I looked at the MSOG photo site owner registry recently and saw another M17 with original "custom gelcoat" hull color given as "Tangerine" (Windsong, here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=22), which in the photos looks pretty close to what is showing through the rub spots on my M17. This photo of "Dulce" shows a possibly similar orange-y red, prior to the repaint with the red Awlgrip: http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer. php?objectid=25&objecttype=0&photoid=263
So I'm guessing I have an original "tangerine" hull gelcoat that at some point got painted over with the red you see. You can also see some duller looking, more reddish brown blotches here and there - again I'm not sure but it looks like they were attempts to cover rubbed areas or other small cosmetic finish defects with some other finish that didn't work out well visually. I'd love to have her hull perfectly bristol but my priority generally goes to sailing time and functional upgrades first... :-)
cheers, John S.
On 10/03/2016 02:29 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
John, Thanx for the Waldo Lake photos. I notice that your M-15 is red and appears to have a cut out opening on the transom, different than my 1985 M-15 that is white with a solid (?) transom. What year was yours built? What are the numbers on your sail? Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 1:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Some Waldo lake pix
A few shots from my recent Waldo lake trip. Ghosting; cruising; morning dew on coaming; nice anchorage.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On Oct 4, 2016, at 8:49 AM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Yes, early M17s usually carried Reggie Armstrong sails so your jib probably is original and your main is not.
At 42 years old, that jib has lived almost as many lives as a cat, but you probably knew that already.
Interesting that your main has 3 reefs. That 3rd reef would correspond with some pretty hardcore sailing.
I’m curious how you handle multiple reefs. My main has only one. I assume you don’t have three full sets of reefing tackle on the boom. What do you do with them?
On 10/06/2016 11:53 AM, David Rifkind wrote: ...
I’m curious how you handle multiple reefs. My main has only one. I assume you don’t have three full sets of reefing tackle on the boom. What do you do with them?
So far I have only used the first reef - what GO said might be a "flattening" reef. It takes a decent bite out of sail area and seems to match very well with the "small" jib that came with the boat. And it does flatten the main some compared to no reef. There are two cheek blocks and two horn cleats on starboard side of my boom. The horn cleats I plan to replace with jam cleats for quickness and ease - making fast with good outhaul tension on a horn cleat with sail and boom bouncing around in rising wind is less than optimal. The upside is, they provide something to wrap the excess reefing line around...which a jam cleat doesn't...what have others done for this conundrum? Interesting GO what you said about a "flattening reef" - because the cheek blocks do not seem to be positioned right for what I was assuming was the "first" and "second" reef (I figured the block & cleat for the 2nd would also be used for the 3rd, or, that nobody had ever put on a block & cleat for the 3rd). The rear-most cheek block, which I assumed was for the "first" reef, is not far enough aft to give an effective outhaul for the first reef. But it would be well located for the "second" reef. Likewise the other cheek block is not aft enough for the apparent "second" reef, but clearly is aft enough for the "third" reef. So I think you've clarified why that is...I was one off in my thinking, those two blocks are for the 2nd and 3rd reef, not the 1st and 2nd. So to use my "first" (flattening?) reef, I've just run the regular outhaul through the first reef grommet, using the same end-of-boom block as for full main. Which is a bit less convenient than I'd like. So I'm pondering how to have a quick-n-easy setup for that first/flattening reef. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Speaking of reefing setups, I just stumbled over this interesting video tip on setting up reef lines to the clew: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbXlEsrlo1s Makes a lot of sense after fussing with my 1st reef line setup, trying to get the direction of pull to give a decent sail shape. My problem was that the pull was too much up-down and not enough horizontal (the video talks about the opposite problem, too much horizontal pull, but the tip it shows would help either way I think). So what I ended up doing was using a short piece of line as a clew strap, to hold the clew down close to the boom. Helped a LOT. Including with full main. What the video shows makes the reefing line into a combo of rearward and downward pull all in one, since it forms a sliding clew strap around the boom using the reefing/outhaul line. Changing the tension on that one line will adjust both down and out tension on the clew at one time. Gonna try it next time! cheers, John S. On 10/07/2016 10:56 AM, John Schinnerer wrote:
On 10/06/2016 11:53 AM, David Rifkind wrote: ...
I’m curious how you handle multiple reefs. My main has only one. I assume you don’t have three full sets of reefing tackle on the boom. What do you do with them?
So far I have only used the first reef - what GO said might be a "flattening" reef. It takes a decent bite out of sail area and seems to match very well with the "small" jib that came with the boat. And it does flatten the main some compared to no reef.
There are two cheek blocks and two horn cleats on starboard side of my boom. The horn cleats I plan to replace with jam cleats for quickness and ease - making fast with good outhaul tension on a horn cleat with sail and boom bouncing around in rising wind is less than optimal. The upside is, they provide something to wrap the excess reefing line around...which a jam cleat doesn't...what have others done for this conundrum?
Interesting GO what you said about a "flattening reef" - because the cheek blocks do not seem to be positioned right for what I was assuming was the "first" and "second" reef (I figured the block & cleat for the 2nd would also be used for the 3rd, or, that nobody had ever put on a block & cleat for the 3rd).
The rear-most cheek block, which I assumed was for the "first" reef, is not far enough aft to give an effective outhaul for the first reef. But it would be well located for the "second" reef. Likewise the other cheek block is not aft enough for the apparent "second" reef, but clearly is aft enough for the "third" reef.
So I think you've clarified why that is...I was one off in my thinking, those two blocks are for the 2nd and 3rd reef, not the 1st and 2nd.
So to use my "first" (flattening?) reef, I've just run the regular outhaul through the first reef grommet, using the same end-of-boom block as for full main. Which is a bit less convenient than I'd like. So I'm pondering how to have a quick-n-easy setup for that first/flattening reef.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (7)
-
Bob Eeg -
David Rifkind -
Jazzy -
jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org -
John Schinnerer -
Steve Trapp -
swwheatley＠comcast.net