While I agree with a likely false reading, I don't think the 15's incapable of surfing well above what might be technically regarded as a hull-speed limit on a displacement vessel, especially if roll and vector isn't a deterrent to lifting the centerboard -- that is, if you're just going out in some wind to see what she'll do on open water. That said, the fastest I've ever traveled in my 15 was under reefed main and storm jib on a reach. I was delirious with the pleasure of it. Then I had to head in to drop off a green-gilled non-sailor passenger whose delirium was originating from a place lower than his head or heart -- though he had unwittingly been providing some needed cockpit ballast for my little experiment. But in a 15, the best ballast is mobile, so might as well jettison that which isn't. I don't know what the maximum speed of a 15 with only skipper aboard, on a close reach and reefed down, in a blow, but it ain't the result of any hull-speed formula. Though I don't believe it's 12, either. I'm not saying it couldn't be, on an occasional surf. In the end, the race against numbers isn't as singular or sporting as the contest between our own limitations and the conditions in which we find ourselves. M15, #324 "Shenanigans" ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
I clocked 6.2 knots over the bottom in my M15 surfing downwind in a blow. These light boats are not truly displacement or planing hulls but somewhere in between. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. Sailing is like "African Queening" thru life. On May 18, 2008, at 6:58 PM, Paint4Real@aol.com wrote:
While I agree with a likely false reading, I don't think the 15's incapable of surfing well above what might be technically regarded as a hull- speed limit on a displacement vessel, especially if roll and vector isn't a deterrent to lifting the centerboard -- that is, if you're just going out in some wind to see what she'll do on open water. That said, the fastest I've ever traveled in my 15 was under reefed main and storm jib on a reach. I was delirious with the pleasure of it. Then I had to head in to drop off a green-gilled non-sailor passenger whose delirium was originating from a place lower than his head or heart -- though he had unwittingly been providing some needed cockpit ballast for my little experiment. But in a 15, the best ballast is mobile, so might as well jettison that which isn't.
I don't know what the maximum speed of a 15 with only skipper aboard, on a close reach and reefed down, in a blow, but it ain't the result of any hull-speed formula. Though I don't believe it's 12, either. I'm not saying it couldn't be, on an occasional surf.
In the end, the race against numbers isn't as singular or sporting as the contest between our own limitations and the conditions in which we find ourselves.
M15, #324 "Shenanigans"
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The M_15 is a remarkable boat. The cockpit is larger than a Potter 19; she outsails the Compac, the Potter 15 and 19 and the Sanibel 18. Both upwind, and in rough seas as well. The M_17 is even faster. And none of those boats are self righting. At one of the Cruiser Challenges up in Oakland, they send off the 'big' boats 5 minutes early. Then the middle group (which included the M_17). Our M_17 passed up everyone in the middle group and lapped everyone in the 'Big' boat fleet except one. Those boats included several 22 and 23 footers, some with mylar racing sails...etc. Great boats...! Bob
From: gmhyde1@mac.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 13:09:41 -0700> Subject: Re: M_Boats: m15 speed> > I clocked 6.2 knots over the bottom in my M15 surfing downwind in a > blow. These light boats are not truly displacement or planing hulls > but somewhere in between.> > > --Gary Hyde> 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2'> We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails.> Sailing is like "African Queening" thru life.> > On May 18, 2008, at 6:58 PM, Paint4Real@aol.com wrote:> > While I agree with a likely false reading, I don't think the 15's > > incapable> > of surfing well above what might be technically regarded as a hull- > > speed limit> > on a displacement vessel, especially if roll and vector isn't a > > deterrent to> > lifting the centerboard -- that is, if you're just going out in some > > wind to> > see what she'll do on open water. That said, the fastest I've ever > > traveled in> > my 15 was under reefed main and storm jib on a reach. I was > > delirious with> > the pleasure of it. Then I had to head in to drop off a green-gilled> > non-sailor passenger whose delirium was originating from a place > > lower than his head> > or heart -- though he had unwittingly been providing some needed > > cockpit> > ballast for my little experiment. But in a 15, the best ballast is > > mobile, so> > might as well jettison that which isn't.> >> > I don't know what the maximum speed of a 15 with only skipper > > aboard, on a> > close reach and reefed down, in a blow, but it ain't the result of any> > hull-speed formula. Though I don't believe it's 12, either. I'm > > not saying it> > couldn't be, on an occasional surf.> >> > In the end, the race against numbers isn't as singular or sporting > > as the> > contest between our own limitations and the conditions in which we > > find> > ourselves.> >> > M15, #324 "Shenanigans"> >> >> > **************> > Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get> > new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.> >> > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)> > _______________________________________________> > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats> > > > > > > _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
I would gently remind Bob that the year before, in Cruiser Challenge II also in Oakland, the wonderful M15 Chuker, with Jerry driving, swept all but the two largest boats (a 19'5" and a 22'), including an M17 on time. In fairness, Cruiser Challenge 2000 was a very light air year, but that only goes to show you that the M15 excels under those conditions. Many M15 sailors have enjoyed seeing M17s disappear slowly astern in 3 or 4 knots of wind. t On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Bob From California <ocean37@hotmail.com> wrote:
At one of the Cruiser Challenges up in Oakland, they send off the 'big' boats 5 minutes early. Then the middle group (which included the M_17).
Our M_17 passed up everyone in the middle group and lapped everyone in the 'Big' boat fleet except one. Those boats included several 22 and 23 footers, some with mylar racing sails...etc.
Great boats...!
Bob
Haven't had the pleasure of sailing a Montgomery 15 in a blow, but we hit 11 knots (on a hull-mounted knotmeter) sailing my NS27 wing and wing around Cabo San Lucas. We were surfing big rollers with this rather deep keeled boat, and I would guess theoretical hull speed and bottom configuration had little to do with the result. This is real white-knuckle stuff, but everyone on board rated the experience a 9 out of 10. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Paint4Real@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:59 PM To: openboatt@gmail.com; montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: m15 speed While I agree with a likely false reading, I don't think the 15's incapable of surfing well above what might be technically regarded as a hull-speed limit on a displacement vessel, especially if roll and vector isn't a deterrent to lifting the centerboard -- that is, if you're just going out in some wind to see what she'll do on open water. That said, the fastest I've ever traveled in my 15 was under reefed main and storm jib on a reach. I was delirious with the pleasure of it. Then I had to head in to drop off a green-gilled non-sailor passenger whose delirium was originating from a place lower than his head or heart -- though he had unwittingly been providing some needed cockpit ballast for my little experiment. But in a 15, the best ballast is mobile, so might as well jettison that which isn't. I don't know what the maximum speed of a 15 with only skipper aboard, on a close reach and reefed down, in a blow, but it ain't the result of any hull-speed formula. Though I don't believe it's 12, either. I'm not saying it couldn't be, on an occasional surf. In the end, the race against numbers isn't as singular or sporting as the contest between our own limitations and the conditions in which we find ourselves. M15, #324 "Shenanigans" ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
participants (5)
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Bob From California -
Gary M Hyde -
Paint4Real＠aol.com -
Tom Jenkins -
Tom Smith