Re: Water in hull -montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 59, Issue 27
Discovered about 3 inches of water in the very front of the boat when I unscrewed the front hatch cover off. Also, there was pieces of Styrofoam. Is there suppose to be Styrofoam there? In the summer I leave my monty 15 in the water at a dock. Could the water be rain water. Comments, suggests or help. Bonnie montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (Wcpritchett@aol.com) 2. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (GILASAILR@aol.com) 3. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (ORLANDO VELEZ) 4. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (JDavies104@aol.com) 5. Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Doug Kelch) 6. RE: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Tim Diebert) 7. RE: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Tim Diebert) 8. Don Haas M15 "Dream Catcher" (Bill Lamica) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:43:35 EST From: Wcpritchett@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com, RKGraves@cite.nic.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I don't about physics but CDI is just following the best rigging practice. Toggles are better than no toggles. They minimize side loading fatigue at the terminal ends. If you want the best setup use toggles on all your standing wire. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000... 48) ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:56:33 EST From: GILASAILR@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Rick, The strains (loads) on the forstay are much greater (very technical term - MUCH greater) as the foil its drum line and sail are all available to be literally flailed about on the forestay as it is being furled. You will experience at some time in the future, the entire furler/sail combo wildly flogging about - this is amplified if your headstay is not tight enough (good case for a powerful backstay adjuster or in the case of the 15 - tight shrouds). I have found over the years of installing a couple (LOL) of FF's that - #1. the foil itself likes to be completely straight and flat. We used to drill a 3/16 hole in each end of the foil and stretch them on a fence in the hot sun for a couple of days - truckers hitches to tension them. #2. the headstay needs to be somewhat tighter than you may be used to with hanked on sails. The tighter forestay will take some of the movement out of the upper end of the forestay. Make sure the upper bearing is riding on the swedge body fitting (fork or eye) as you do not want the bearing piece to abrade the wire itself. NFIW but the CDI Flexible Furler is a great piece of equipment - Do they still have that very interesting warranty coverage claim? The one about the vehicle driving over the foil? I am not a big fan of furlers but when I bite the bullet - CDI will get my money. GaryO M-17 # 316a Team Geezer Racing...Old and In the Way **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000... 48) ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:07:36 -0800 (PST) From: ORLANDO VELEZ Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Message-ID: <972650.51259.qm@web84009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 My M15 came with a Mini St CDI furler when I bought it. It has a turnbuckle, and It seems to me that the only thing that fits in there is the turnbuckle. I dont see how to pass the eye through the halyard top fitting into the plastic luff or the bottom of the cup. Even if you modify the system, the adjuster may interfere with the rotation of the system while in a rush. Maybe Jerry can make a forestay with a turnbuckle for you Louis Aliotta wrote: I have a CDI furler that I want to install on my M-15. I read the instructions and it says to use a turnbuckle inside of the furling unit. Has anyone installed one and can you use the stay adjuster that is standard on the M-15 forestay. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:58:56 EST From: JDavies104@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: GILASAILR@aol.com, montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" About the foil needing to be straight and flat, CDI says that putting it on the forestay will take care of that if it isn't quite straight. That said, I found that in spite of CDI's suggestion that you need several people around to help straighten and reverse coil it, I found that after it was uncoiled for ten or fifteen minutes it lay straight and flat (no reverse coiling needed) on the floor, where it still is, waiting for some warm(er) weather. Still have to figure out how to get it into (or onto) the car for the trip to the boat .... CDI's warranty is for six years, and covers only hazards at sea (including unseamanlike use and dismastings), but not any abuse of the foil when off the boat, when it must be stored straight and flat at all times. Any kinks or bends that the owner puts in (such as by driving a truck over it) I think are the owner's problem. Rick ************** Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000... 48) ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 07:19:57 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Message-ID: <346521.84767.qm@web58715.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 With all this talk about the CDI furler has anyone ever used the Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear? It is a 100 year old design but seems much simpler to install, use, and remove for trailering. Thanks Doug Kelch --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:20:49 -0800 From: "Tim Diebert" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" Message-ID: <002501c86108$f6a3c620$e3eb5260$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Wykeham-Martin rollers have always interested me. My intentions were to buy two of these guys if I was ever to go back to headsail rollers. I know a man who runs two of the small Wykeham-Martin units in a cutter configuration on a 16 foot boat. It has always worked flawlessly for him. The thing that appeals to me is that you can reduce sail to a manageable size in a matter of seconds. Not just dowse a headsail and carry on under main alone....but drop the big genny and then roll out the staysl to a more balanced rig licketty split. The downside to such units (the way I see it) is the sails have to be seized to the wire....or rather, you need to have headsails that have (the correct) captive wire. Most sailmakers can modify existing sails or build new sails to this style. Also, you will need a seperate headstay just ahead of the jib roller. There is no foil on this style of roller. This to me is both good and bad. Not having a foil might be considered bad because you cannot just unslot a sail and slide in another (not that this is an easy process or even one you would want to be doing on the water anyway)....just in the sense that you can change options reasonably easily. Not having a foil is good because you can more easily stow the gear when your rig is down. Not having a foil is good because that foil is a huge chunk of stuff. It seems to me that it is overkill is many ways for a wee boat. If you are using wire-in luff sails, changing sails is actually pretty easy. With the sail (to be changed) rolled up and the sheets rolled right up into the sausage, just ease your halyard, unclip at the roller, clip to a padeye temporarily, clip in new sail at the roller, lower halyard, unclip old sail at the halyard swivel, clip in the new sail, tension the halyard, set up new sheets (Or re-use same sheet set up...whatever), stow the old sail, and sail on. Not as easy as a hank on sail. But it is roller furling that has some options and I like that. If I was doing an extended cruise this would be my system of choice. For day sailing and weekend cruising hanked on sails are my choice. Another angle to this is that you are not restricted to the Wykemham-Martin products...Harken makes a modern unit that works exactly the same way. I am quite sure the Harken rig would be less expensive as well. The smaller unit can be had for under $200.US complete. The Wykeham-Martin unit close to that would be closer to $400. plus shipping from the UK. But it is hard to beat that whole solid bronze vibe. ~:0) Anything you might need to know about the Wykemham-Martin gear can be found here: http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/articles/wmgear.htm You can buy these Wykemham-Martin units here: http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/product.asp?product=294&cat=79&ph=cat&keyword s=&recor=&SearchFor=&PT_ID= The Harken roller furlers seem least expensive at Mauri Pro... and info and images can be seen here: http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=H AR434&Category_Code=SMALLBOATFUR Tim The Frozen Kelowna BC M17 Puff #369 With all this talk about the CDI furler has anyone ever used the Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear? It is a 100 year old design but seems much simpler to install, use, and remove for trailering. Thanks Doug Kelch --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:51:16 -0800 From: "Tim Diebert" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" Message-ID: <002601c8610d$375fe640$a61fb2c0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Harken roller furlers link was not working in my last post...... Try just going to http://www.mauriprosailing.com and use the search box with phrase HAR434 That is the model number of the Small Boat Harken furler that would be the correct size for our boats. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:36:54 -0800 From: "Bill Lamica" Subject: M_Boats: Don Haas M15 "Dream Catcher" To: "Montgomery Email Forum" Message-ID: <3018b6c40801271236k69b1583fi50ddc035f1bb6764@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Added Don Haas's M15 to the Photo Site This link is to his page. http://www.msogphotosite.com/m15haas.html enjoy! ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 59, Issue 27 ************************************************
Bonnie: The styrofoam is for floatation and should be there; the water should not. Were the bow cushions wet? If not, then the water might be coming from below--a leak. 3 inches is more than condensation. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. On Jan 27, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Bonnie Kostka wrote:
Discovered about 3 inches of water in the very front of the boat when I unscrewed the front hatch cover off. Also, there was pieces of Styrofoam. Is there suppose to be Styrofoam there? In the summer I leave my monty 15 in the water at a dock. Could the water be rain water. Comments, suggests or help.
Bonnie
montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (Wcpritchett@aol.com) 2. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (GILASAILR@aol.com) 3. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (ORLANDO VELEZ) 4. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (JDavies104@aol.com) 5. Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Doug Kelch) 6. RE: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Tim Diebert) 7. RE: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Tim Diebert) 8. Don Haas M15 "Dream Catcher" (Bill Lamica)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:43:35 EST From: Wcpritchett@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com, RKGraves@cite.nic.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I don't about physics but CDI is just following the best rigging practice. Toggles are better than no toggles. They minimize side loading fatigue at the terminal ends. If you want the best setup use toggles on all your standing wire.
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000... 48)
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:56:33 EST From: GILASAILR@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Rick, The strains (loads) on the forstay are much greater (very technical term - MUCH greater) as the foil its drum line and sail are all available to be literally flailed about on the forestay as it is being furled. You will experience at some time in the future, the entire furler/ sail combo wildly flogging about - this is amplified if your headstay is not tight enough (good case for a powerful backstay adjuster or in the case of the 15 - tight shrouds). I have found over the years of installing a couple (LOL) of FF's that -
#1. the foil itself likes to be completely straight and flat. We used to drill a 3/16 hole in each end of the foil and stretch them on a fence in the hot sun for a couple of days - truckers hitches to tension them.
#2. the headstay needs to be somewhat tighter than you may be used to with hanked on sails.
The tighter forestay will take some of the movement out of the upper end of the forestay. Make sure the upper bearing is riding on the swedge body fitting (fork or eye) as you do not want the bearing piece to abrade the wire itself.
NFIW but the CDI Flexible Furler is a great piece of equipment - Do they still have that very interesting warranty coverage claim? The one about the vehicle driving over the foil?
I am not a big fan of furlers but when I bite the bullet - CDI will get my money.
GaryO M-17 # 316a Team Geezer Racing...Old and In the Way
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000... 48)
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:07:36 -0800 (PST) From: ORLANDO VELEZ Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
Message-ID: <972650.51259.qm@web84009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
My M15 came with a Mini St CDI furler when I bought it. It has a turnbuckle, and It seems to me that the only thing that fits in there is the turnbuckle. I dont see how to pass the eye through the halyard top fitting into the plastic luff or the bottom of the cup. Even if you modify the system, the adjuster may interfere with the rotation of the system while in a rush. Maybe Jerry can make a forestay with a turnbuckle for you
Louis Aliotta wrote: I have a CDI furler that I want to install on my M-15. I read the instructions and it says to use a turnbuckle inside of the furling unit. Has anyone installed one and can you use the stay adjuster that is standard on the M-15 forestay. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:58:56 EST From: JDavies104@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: GILASAILR@aol.com, montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
About the foil needing to be straight and flat, CDI says that putting it on the forestay will take care of that if it isn't quite straight. That said, I found that in spite of CDI's suggestion that you need several people around to help straighten and reverse coil it, I found that after it was uncoiled for ten or fifteen minutes it lay straight and flat (no reverse coiling needed) on the floor, where it still is, waiting for some warm(er) weather. Still have to figure out how to get it into (or onto) the car for the trip to the boat ....
CDI's warranty is for six years, and covers only hazards at sea (including unseamanlike use and dismastings), but not any abuse of the foil when off the boat, when it must be stored straight and flat at all times. Any kinks or bends that the owner puts in (such as by driving a truck over it) I think are the owner's problem.
Rick
************** Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000... 48)
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 07:19:57 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
Message-ID: <346521.84767.qm@web58715.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
With all this talk about the CDI furler has anyone ever used the Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear? It is a 100 year old design but seems much simpler to install, use, and remove for trailering.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
--------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:20:49 -0800 From: "Tim Diebert" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'"
Message-ID: <002501c86108$f6a3c620$e3eb5260$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Wykeham-Martin rollers have always interested me. My intentions were to buy two of these guys if I was ever to go back to headsail rollers. I know a man who runs two of the small Wykeham-Martin units in a cutter configuration on a 16 foot boat. It has always worked flawlessly for him. The thing that appeals to me is that you can reduce sail to a manageable size in a matter of seconds. Not just dowse a headsail and carry on under main alone....but drop the big genny and then roll out the staysl to a more balanced rig licketty split. The downside to such units (the way I see it) is the sails have to be seized to the wire....or rather, you need to have headsails that have (the correct) captive wire. Most sailmakers can modify existing sails or build new sails to this style. Also, you will need a seperate headstay just ahead of the jib roller.
There is no foil on this style of roller. This to me is both good and bad. Not having a foil might be considered bad because you cannot just unslot a sail and slide in another (not that this is an easy process or even one you would want to be doing on the water anyway)....just in the sense that you can change options reasonably easily. Not having a foil is good because you can more easily stow the gear when your rig is down. Not having a foil is good because that foil is a huge chunk of stuff. It seems to me that it is overkill is many ways for a wee boat.
If you are using wire-in luff sails, changing sails is actually pretty easy. With the sail (to be changed) rolled up and the sheets rolled right up into the sausage, just ease your halyard, unclip at the roller, clip to a padeye temporarily, clip in new sail at the roller, lower halyard, unclip old sail at the halyard swivel, clip in the new sail, tension the halyard, set up new sheets (Or re-use same sheet set up...whatever), stow the old sail, and sail on. Not as easy as a hank on sail. But it is roller furling that has some options and I like that. If I was doing an extended cruise this would be my system of choice. For day sailing and weekend cruising hanked on sails are my choice.
Another angle to this is that you are not restricted to the Wykemham- Martin products...Harken makes a modern unit that works exactly the same way. I am quite sure the Harken rig would be less expensive as well. The smaller unit can be had for under $200.US complete. The Wykeham-Martin unit close to that would be closer to $400. plus shipping from the UK. But it is hard to beat that whole solid bronze vibe. ~:0)
Anything you might need to know about the Wykemham-Martin gear can be found here: http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/articles/wmgear.htm
You can buy these Wykemham-Martin units here: http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/product.asp?product=294&cat=79&ph=cat&keyword s=&recor=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=
The Harken roller furlers seem least expensive at Mauri Pro... and info and images can be seen here: http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=H AR434&Category_Code=SMALLBOATFUR
Tim The Frozen Kelowna BC M17 Puff #369
With all this talk about the CDI furler has anyone ever used the Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear? It is a 100 year old design but seems much simpler to install, use, and remove for trailering.
Thanks
Doug Kelch
--------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:51:16 -0800 From: "Tim Diebert" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'"
Message-ID: <002601c8610d$375fe640$a61fb2c0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Harken roller furlers link was not working in my last post...... Try just going to http://www.mauriprosailing.com and use the search box with phrase HAR434
That is the model number of the Small Boat Harken furler that would be the correct size for our boats.
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:36:54 -0800 From: "Bill Lamica" Subject: M_Boats: Don Haas M15 "Dream Catcher" To: "Montgomery Email Forum" Message-ID: <3018b6c40801271236k69b1583fi50ddc035f1bb6764@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Added Don Haas's M15 to the Photo Site This link is to his page.
http://www.msogphotosite.com/m15haas.html
enjoy!
------------------------------
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 59, Issue 27 ************************************************
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participants (2)
-
Bonnie Kostka -
Gary M Hyde