Hi John, When I had to add a third gudgeon to the transom I got one from Jerry. All of them are the same I believe. I set up the rudder I had and had it set on the two original gudgeons and then just slid the third gudgeon up the middle pintle and marked the holes on the transom. The originals on mine were mounted with the bolt holes above the bracket but it probably doesn't make a lot of difference. Three of them will be plenty strong either way to support the rudder/tiller weight. Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:33 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

Hi all,

Rick (of many rudders :-) is selling me his original slide-up rudder for my M-17. I currently have the early version balanced one-piece rudder, no sliding, no kick-up, only two gudgeons.

So I'll need to install a middle gudgeon, and, see if the spacing on the top and bottom already in place is the same as the OEM three-gudgeon installation.

1) Could someone who has the original sliding rudder M-17 with three gudgeons in factory location measure their spacing and post the measurements? I think starting from bottom of keel at rear of boat and measuring up to the horizontal piece on each gudgeon would be an accurate way to do it.

2) Is the middle gudgeon mounted bracket up, or bracket down (and does it matter functionally or structurally)?

3) I'll need one more gudgeon matching my dimensions. I assume they're same as three-gudgeon models but will measure and post. Does anyone have a spare (used or new) for sale for my third?

When I get her in the water again I'll be able to compare the two "original" rudders head to head - first generation and second generation, as it were.

thanks, John S.

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Oops nm..I see you got your answer. Jazz On Feb 1, 2016 10:33 PM, "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

Hi all,

Rick (of many rudders :-) is selling me his original slide-up rudder for my M-17. I currently have the early version balanced one-piece rudder, no sliding, no kick-up, only two gudgeons.

So I'll need to install a middle gudgeon, and, see if the spacing on the top and bottom already in place is the same as the OEM three-gudgeon installation.

1) Could someone who has the original sliding rudder M-17 with three gudgeons in factory location measure their spacing and post the measurements? I think starting from bottom of keel at rear of boat and measuring up to the horizontal piece on each gudgeon would be an accurate way to do it.

2) Is the middle gudgeon mounted bracket up, or bracket down (and does it matter functionally or structurally)?

3) I'll need one more gudgeon matching my dimensions. I assume they're same as three-gudgeon models but will measure and post. Does anyone have a spare (used or new) for sale for my third?

When I get her in the water again I'll be able to compare the two "original" rudders head to head - first generation and second generation, as it were.

thanks, John S.

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com