Hi folks: I don’t want to be a bother, posting lots of novice questions. However, I’m new to my M15 “Chinook Breeze” No. 377. I’ve only been sailing it for four years and with only three open water adventures in the San Juan Islands. When I pull into a marina like Friday Harbor, Rosario or Roche, people often remark “That’s a small boat. Should you really be out here?” “It’s pretty gutsy for you to be out here.” And since I’m 72, people think I’m crazy. I think I’ve had more hair-raising adventures on my local reservoir than in the islands. So, how safe is it to be solo sailing in the islands or some other larger bodies of water? I know the Monty 15 has crossed the ocean. How safe is it to be only one boat on a trip without others. I like to sail solo for the peace and contemplation. Thanks again for such a wonderful email forum helping beginner boaters. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
Pete: These people don't know what they are talking about. I've seen people say these things even when I was part of Larry Yake's MSOG group cruises. Many people incorrectly think size equals safety. Nope. All of Jerry's boats are safe craft and seaworthy if captained smartly. I believe the greatest danger cruising the Salish Sea, late spring through early fall, is the large powerboats and their 'captains' that don't know the rules of safe boating (like giving room/way to a SAILBOAT under sail) and being aware of their LARGE and damage/injury-causing wakes - especially for smaller craft. Watch the forecast. Know your personal limits. Don't go against strong currents in constricted channels. Be aware of tide rips and their dangers. If you feel you can safely handle and stay the boat your age doesn't matter. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 7:25 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi folks: I don’t want to be a bother, posting lots of novice questions. However, I’m new to my M15 “Chinook Breeze” No. 377. I’ve only been sailing it for four years and with only three open water adventures in the San Juan Islands. When I pull into a marina like Friday Harbor, Rosario or Roche, people often remark “That’s a small boat. Should you really be out here?” “It’s pretty gutsy for you to be out here.” And since I’m 72, people think I’m crazy. I think I’ve had more hair-raising adventures on my local reservoir than in the islands. So, how safe is it to be solo sailing in the islands or some other larger bodies of water? I know the Monty 15 has crossed the ocean. How safe is it to be only one boat on a trip without others. I like to sail solo for the peace and contemplation. Thanks again for such a wonderful email forum helping beginner boaters.
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequahe: Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
Dave, Pete, others, I read about sailing solo in out of the way places around the country for peace and quiet. There is a launch ramp but no one else around, no stores, nothing. When you sail away, your vehicle and trailer are just left there, in the middle of nowhere. How do you deal with the idea that if someone showed up and vandalized or stole your rig there would be no way to stop them?? No way to get yourself, much less your boat to safety. Most of those remote areas do not have cell service. I live in Texas and have traveled all over the state by car and no matter where I travel, no matter how far away from civilization I am I will find bullet holes in road signs. That tells me there ARE people out here that think nothing about destroying public property and have nothing else to do but that or perhaps, loot, some luckless boater's vehicle and trailer. I do not think Texas has a monopoly on such people. Tom B, Monty 17, AS-IS <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:05 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Pete:
These people don't know what they are talking about. I've seen people say these things even when I was part of Larry Yake's MSOG group cruises.
Many people incorrectly think size equals safety. Nope. All of Jerry's boats are safe craft and seaworthy if captained smartly. I believe the greatest danger cruising the Salish Sea, late spring through early fall, is the large powerboats and their 'captains' that don't know the rules of safe boating (like giving room/way to a SAILBOAT under sail) and being aware of their LARGE and damage/injury-causing wakes - especially for smaller craft.
Watch the forecast. Know your personal limits. Don't go against strong currents in constricted channels. Be aware of tide rips and their dangers.
If you feel you can safely handle and stay the boat your age doesn't matter.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 7:25 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi folks: I don’t want to be a bother, posting lots of novice questions. However, I’m new to my M15 “Chinook Breeze” No. 377. I’ve only been sailing it for four years and with only three open water adventures in the San Juan Islands. When I pull into a marina like Friday Harbor, Rosario or Roche, people often remark “That’s a small boat. Should you really be out here?” “It’s pretty gutsy for you to be out here.” And since I’m 72, people think I’m crazy. I think I’ve had more hair-raising adventures on my local reservoir than in the islands. So, how safe is it to be solo sailing in the islands or some other larger bodies of water? I know the Monty 15 has crossed the ocean. How safe is it to be only one boat on a trip without others. I like to sail solo for the peace and contemplation. Thanks again for such a wonderful email forum helping beginner boaters.
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequahe: Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
Pete: I spent 2 weeks there in “Vanilla” in some wave action at times and did fine. So have several other M15 owners. Sent from my iPad Gary Hyde ~~~(\~~~ Jeg Er Nok (I am enough), or, as Popeye would say: “I yam what I yam and that’s all that I yam.”
On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:24 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi folks: I don’t want to be a bother, posting lots of novice questions. However, I’m new to my M15 “Chinook Breeze” No. 377. I’ve only been sailing it for four years and with only three open water adventures in the San Juan Islands. When I pull into a marina like Friday Harbor, Rosario or Roche, people often remark “That’s a small boat. Should you really be out here?” “It’s pretty gutsy for you to be out here.” And since I’m 72, people think I’m crazy. I think I’ve had more hair-raising adventures on my local reservoir than in the islands. So, how safe is it to be solo sailing in the islands or some other larger bodies of water? I know the Monty 15 has crossed the ocean. How safe is it to be only one boat on a trip without others. I like to sail solo for the peace and contemplation. Thanks again for such a wonderful email forum helping beginner boaters.
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
I get a kick out of BeneHunterLina sailors reactions when they hear I have a 15 foot boat and advise me to stay in the marina if there's any wind. I respond that the M15 is really too small, I might have to go up to a big 17 footer if I ever sail around the world. The ratio of low working stress to materials strength on an M15 cannot be achieved in even the toughest of large boats. In that sense smaller boats are fundamentally more structurally seaworthy, albeit less comfortable in rough weather. The most seaworthy "boat" imaginable is a wine cork. For example, the standing rigging on an M15 is 1/8" 1x19 wire which in 316 stainless, has a breaking strength of about 1780lbs or about 2.4x the boats displacement. Take a famously seaworthy overbuilt bluewater boat like the WestSail 32, which has 9/32" rigging with a breaking strength of 9360lbs in 316, or about 0.48x the displacement. Which boat is stressing the shrouds closer to failure in a storm? Also, which boat is more likely to have rigging that isn't corroded to a fraction of it's design strength, the one that costs $150 to re-rig or the one that costs $10,000? Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:24:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: The safety of the M15 Hi folks: I don’t want to be a bother, posting lots of novice questions. However, I’m new to my M15 “Chinook Breeze” No. 377. I’ve only been sailing it for four years and with only three open water adventures in the San Juan Islands. When I pull into a marina like Friday Harbor, Rosario or Roche, people often remark “That’s a small boat. Should you really be out here?” “It’s pretty gutsy for you to be out here.” And since I’m 72, people think I’m crazy. I think I’ve had more hair-raising adventures on my local reservoir than in the islands. So, how safe is it to be solo sailing in the islands or some other larger bodies of water? I know the Monty 15 has crossed the ocean. How safe is it to be only one boat on a trip without others. I like to sail solo for the peace and contemplation. Thanks again for such a wonderful email forum helping beginner boaters. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
While I agree completely with the view that our Mboats are some of the toughest built in the world for their size, indeed some may say over-engineered (which is precisely why I bought my M17), they are still small displacement & footprint boats. When properly equipped for reefing and sail management they can handle all sort of high wind, however sea state is another matter. For most of the relatively sheltered water on inland lakes with limited fetch they are bomb proof, but in the open ocean or even in the middle of the Georgia strait out here on the PNW with longer fetches in truly heavy weather, their size and limited displacement can become problematic when dealing with the resulting sea state much more quickly than with larger boats. Thats not to say that larger boats don't get into trouble, indeed they do.. I have no concerns about taking my M17 pretty much anywhere up and down the BC coast and surely proof positive is Ted's two successful runs in R2AK to Alaska, but I do think we just have to be more mindful of our size and make good decisions that are realistically calibrated to the limits of these tough little boats. my 2 cents... Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Vancouver/Burnaby B.C.* *Serenity M17, #353* *http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=105 <http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=105>* On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 14:21, <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I get a kick out of BeneHunterLina sailors reactions when they hear I have a 15 foot boat and advise me to stay in the marina if there's any wind. I respond that the M15 is really too small, I might have to go up to a big 17 footer if I ever sail around the world.
The ratio of low working stress to materials strength on an M15 cannot be achieved in even the toughest of large boats. In that sense smaller boats are fundamentally more structurally seaworthy, albeit less comfortable in rough weather. The most seaworthy "boat" imaginable is a wine cork.
For example, the standing rigging on an M15 is 1/8" 1x19 wire which in 316 stainless, has a breaking strength of about 1780lbs or about 2.4x the boats displacement. Take a famously seaworthy overbuilt bluewater boat like the WestSail 32, which has 9/32" rigging with a breaking strength of 9360lbs in 316, or about 0.48x the displacement. Which boat is stressing the shrouds closer to failure in a storm? Also, which boat is more likely to have rigging that isn't corroded to a fraction of it's design strength, the one that costs $150 to re-rig or the one that costs $10,000?
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:24:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: The safety of the M15
Hi folks: I don’t want to be a bother, posting lots of novice questions. However, I’m new to my M15 “Chinook Breeze” No. 377. I’ve only been sailing it for four years and with only three open water adventures in the San Juan Islands. When I pull into a marina like Friday Harbor, Rosario or Roche, people often remark “That’s a small boat. Should you really be out here?” “It’s pretty gutsy for you to be out here.” And since I’m 72, people think I’m crazy. I think I’ve had more hair-raising adventures on my local reservoir than in the islands. So, how safe is it to be solo sailing in the islands or some other larger bodies of water? I know the Monty 15 has crossed the ocean. How safe is it to be only one boat on a trip without others. I like to sail solo for the peace and contemplation. Thanks again for such a wonderful email forum helping beginner boaters.
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
Likewise...interesting how owners of large boats don't seem to know some basics of seaworthiness, materials stress & engineering, etc. I guess if you have enough money it doesn't matter? ;-) What I notice as a kayaker, in that same context (Salish sea), is that people in big boats there (sail or power) actually don't make those kind of remarks about my 17.5 ft sea kayak when I am paddling it around. But I know they will make them when I get my 17 ft Montgomery up there and cruise around. Somehow a 45 lb 17.5 ft sea kayak with 23" beam is not remarkable as to safety in those waters, but a 1500 lb 17 ft sailboat with 7.3 ft beam is...? Maybe they just assume all kayakers are crazy, but not all pocket cruiser owners? ;-) I still recall reading Thor Heyerdahl's book "Fatu-Hiva" wherein he, a landlubber Norwegian attempting to live off the jungle on a somewhat remote island in Polynesia as a young man, had his realization that small craft may actually "fit" the swells of the sea better in some ways than big huge boats. Which led him to realize that gee, maybe humans before ocean liners really did get around the planet via the seas, and his subsequent experiments in testing that out. Of course we know the Polynesians were all over the Pacific for thousands of years in relatively small voyaging canoes. Not to mention the Vikings, in nastier and much colder weather and water, raiding around northern Europe back in the day in open square rigged wrinke-boats. The original row-sail cruisers? :-) cheers, John On 8/13/19 2:14 PM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I get a kick out of BeneHunterLina sailors reactions when they hear I have a 15 foot boat and advise me to stay in the marina if there's any wind. I respond that the M15 is really too small, I might have to go up to a big 17 footer if I ever sail around the world.
The ratio of low working stress to materials strength on an M15 cannot be achieved in even the toughest of large boats. In that sense smaller boats are fundamentally more structurally seaworthy, albeit less comfortable in rough weather. The most seaworthy "boat" imaginable is a wine cork.
For example, the standing rigging on an M15 is 1/8" 1x19 wire which in 316 stainless, has a breaking strength of about 1780lbs or about 2.4x the boats displacement. Take a famously seaworthy overbuilt bluewater boat like the WestSail 32, which has 9/32" rigging with a breaking strength of 9360lbs in 316, or about 0.48x the displacement. Which boat is stressing the shrouds closer to failure in a storm? Also, which boat is more likely to have rigging that isn't corroded to a fraction of it's design strength, the one that costs $150 to re-rig or the one that costs $10,000?
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (7)
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casioqv＠usermail.com -
Dave Scobie -
GARY M HYDE -
John Schinnerer -
Keith R. Martin -
Peter Zimowsky -
Thomas Buzzi