Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about how the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
Gerry: The masthead sheeves will have been made for wire to rope halyards - what was 'all the rage' back when the boat was built. Wire was used to reduce stretch. For the main halyard use 1/4" line. For the jib use 5/16" line. Below is a link that will download a rigging spec sheet hosted on the MSOGphotosite.com that may assist you. John Manfredi put this together for a newer build boat so some things are different. http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Information/downloaddocument.php?id=199 Anything else let the group know! :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 5:58 AM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about how the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
Hi guys: Is there a spec sheet available for M15s like the one posted for M17s? I’ve been replacing my shrouds and forestay and want to make sure I’m doing it right. Thanks, Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Mar 19, 2019, at 7:35 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Gerry:
The masthead sheeves will have been made for wire to rope halyards - what was 'all the rage' back when the boat was built. Wire was used to reduce stretch.
For the main halyard use 1/4" line. For the jib use 5/16" line.
Below is a link that will download a rigging spec sheet hosted on the MSOGphotosite.com that may assist you. John Manfredi put this together for a newer build boat so some things are different.
http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Information/downloaddocument.php?id=199
Anything else let the group know!
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 5:58 AM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about how the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
You can remove the sheaves and clean them up and file off any burrs or nicks. Or you can replace them with plastic sheaves if you are going to use all rope halyards. The specs are: 1-1/2” dia 1/4” bore 3/8” thickness Henry Monita M17 #310 On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 8:36 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Gerry:
The masthead sheeves will have been made for wire to rope halyards - what was 'all the rage' back when the boat was built. Wire was used to reduce stretch.
For the main halyard use 1/4" line. For the jib use 5/16" line.
Below is a link that will download a rigging spec sheet hosted on the MSOGphotosite.com that may assist you. John Manfredi put this together for a newer build boat so some things are different.
http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Information/downloaddocument.php?id=199
Anything else let the group know!
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 5:58 AM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about
how
the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone
Running rigging specs are largely a matter of personal preference and the layout of your particular boat, so I wouldn't worry about finding a one-size-fits-all list of materials. The masthead sheaves on older M17s were sized for wire/rope halyards. These days, I think most people do what I do, which is use an all-rope halyard made of low-stretch line, typically 1/4". Ideally, you would change the sheaves, but I didn't and they work reasonably well with the 1/4" line. I have been using Stay-Set X, but there are newer alternatives, some of which might let you go down to 3/16", which, among other advantages, would fit the sheaves even better. I'm sure others will weigh in with suggestions along those lines. For the mainsheet, I think most people use their preferred brand of 3/8" line. I use 3/8" for the jib/genoa sheets too, but the more race oriented types prefer a lighter line for that application. If your boat still uses the o.e. clam cleats for the reefing lines, the lines need to be sized to match; can't remember right now if that is 1/8" or 3/16". I do not have a boom vang or a line control traveler, but if I did I probably would use 1/4" line there. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 8:57 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M-17 Rigging Instructions? Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about how the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
Running rigging specs are largely a matter of personal preference and the layout of your particular boat
Yep!! For the sheets I recommend 5/16" for the main and 1/4" for the jib/genoa. For other controls: 3/16" for the reefing lines, cunningham and the line that keeps the gooseneck slide from sliding up and boom vang; 3/16" for the traveler; 3/16 for jib downhaul and 1/4" for the main outhaul. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 7:53 AM <swwheatley@comcast.net> wrote:
Running rigging specs are largely a matter of personal preference and the layout of your particular boat, so I wouldn't worry about finding a one-size-fits-all list of materials.
The masthead sheaves on older M17s were sized for wire/rope halyards. These days, I think most people do what I do, which is use an all-rope halyard made of low-stretch line, typically 1/4". Ideally, you would change the sheaves, but I didn't and they work reasonably well with the 1/4" line. I have been using Stay-Set X, but there are newer alternatives, some of which might let you go down to 3/16", which, among other advantages, would fit the sheaves even better. I'm sure others will weigh in with suggestions along those lines.
For the mainsheet, I think most people use their preferred brand of 3/8" line. I use 3/8" for the jib/genoa sheets too, but the more race oriented types prefer a lighter line for that application. If your boat still uses the o.e. clam cleats for the reefing lines, the lines need to be sized to match; can't remember right now if that is 1/8" or 3/16". I do not have a boom vang or a line control traveler, but if I did I probably would use 1/4" line there.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 8:57 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M-17 Rigging Instructions?
Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about how the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
Hi Gerry, When you rig your boat, there are sure a lot of options. And some of these will be hard to know before you actually start sailing. Are you going to want to race? Or just leisurely cruise? Things like backstay tensioners, and other go fast goodies are available. Regardless, we have loved Harken Hexaratchets-- they sure make less pull force needed on the main sheet during lively sailing when you can't clear the sheet. We've had them on boats from 15' to 22'. Great question on the slot cutout to insert the sale slugs. You must determine where your boom is going to sit. It is not uncommon to see people trying to fix the problem in that area by adding aluminum or stainless plates to fill the area where they didn't want the slot. We had a boat where unless you had major tension on the main halyard, the gooseneck would pop out of the slot. This didn't help light air sailing when you would want to reduce the tension on the main halyard! Burt Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2019, at 10:51 AM, <swwheatley@comcast.net> <swwheatley@comcast.net> wrote:
Running rigging specs are largely a matter of personal preference and the layout of your particular boat, so I wouldn't worry about finding a one-size-fits-all list of materials.
The masthead sheaves on older M17s were sized for wire/rope halyards. These days, I think most people do what I do, which is use an all-rope halyard made of low-stretch line, typically 1/4". Ideally, you would change the sheaves, but I didn't and they work reasonably well with the 1/4" line. I have been using Stay-Set X, but there are newer alternatives, some of which might let you go down to 3/16", which, among other advantages, would fit the sheaves even better. I'm sure others will weigh in with suggestions along those lines.
For the mainsheet, I think most people use their preferred brand of 3/8" line. I use 3/8" for the jib/genoa sheets too, but the more race oriented types prefer a lighter line for that application. If your boat still uses the o.e. clam cleats for the reefing lines, the lines need to be sized to match; can't remember right now if that is 1/8" or 3/16". I do not have a boom vang or a line control traveler, but if I did I probably would use 1/4" line there.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 8:57 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M-17 Rigging Instructions?
Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about how the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
Get a Mastgate from Tom. Solves that problem. Not a fan of widening the mast. Prefer a milled slot. Here https://www.mastgates.com/contact-us.html Bob Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2019, at 11:17 AM, Burton Lowry <burtonlowry7@gmail.com<mailto:burtonlowry7@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Gerry, When you rig your boat, there are sure a lot of options. And some of these will be hard to know before you actually start sailing. Are you going to want to race? Or just leisurely cruise? Things like backstay tensioners, and other go fast goodies are available. Regardless, we have loved Harken Hexaratchets-- they sure make less pull force needed on the main sheet during lively sailing when you can't clear the sheet. We've had them on boats from 15' to 22'. Great question on the slot cutout to insert the sale slugs. You must determine where your boom is going to sit. It is not uncommon to see people trying to fix the problem in that area by adding aluminum or stainless plates to fill the area where they didn't want the slot. We had a boat where unless you had major tension on the main halyard, the gooseneck would pop out of the slot. This didn't help light air sailing when you would want to reduce the tension on the main halyard! Burt Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2019, at 10:51 AM, <swwheatley@comcast.net<mailto:swwheatley@comcast.net>> <swwheatley@comcast.net<mailto:swwheatley@comcast.net>> wrote: Running rigging specs are largely a matter of personal preference and the layout of your particular boat, so I wouldn't worry about finding a one-size-fits-all list of materials. The masthead sheaves on older M17s were sized for wire/rope halyards. These days, I think most people do what I do, which is use an all-rope halyard made of low-stretch line, typically 1/4". Ideally, you would change the sheaves, but I didn't and they work reasonably well with the 1/4" line. I have been using Stay-Set X, but there are newer alternatives, some of which might let you go down to 3/16", which, among other advantages, would fit the sheaves even better. I'm sure others will weigh in with suggestions along those lines. For the mainsheet, I think most people use their preferred brand of 3/8" line. I use 3/8" for the jib/genoa sheets too, but the more race oriented types prefer a lighter line for that application. If your boat still uses the o.e. clam cleats for the reefing lines, the lines need to be sized to match; can't remember right now if that is 1/8" or 3/16". I do not have a boom vang or a line control traveler, but if I did I probably would use 1/4" line there. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com<mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 8:57 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M-17 Rigging Instructions? Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about how the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
What's your hull number? I have #38, also a 1974 M17. Some things have no doubt been changed on my boat by previous owners, and by me since I got her, but I'm happy to share specifics of my '74 rigging if you have specific questions. Re the masthead, I don't know if my sheaves where changed out from original wire-halyard ones, but I imagine they must have been. She came with all-rope halyards. They use the full width of the sheaves, and the sheaves use the full width of the masthead casting, but there is no significant binding or excess friction. Both halyards are same size, green (main) to starboard and red (jib) to port, I would say they are 5/16. Main sheet is 3/8" and I like it that fat, smoother on the sheaves under tension, easer on the hands when pulling against lots of tension. Mine came with a 3-turn mainsheet block setup, but with the mid-boom sheeting of the early M17's that is inadequate purchase in strong winds. I have changed mine to 4-turn setup. Luckily my boat came with two traveler blocks, one all ready to go for the 4-turn setup, so I just had to buy a two-sheave block for the boom. Came with original 80% and 150% jibs with nice fat soft old style 3/8" sheets. I am using 5/16" for my new furling jib. Most everything else is 3/16", either existing or that I have upgraded or installed - outhaul, reefing lines, furling line, etc. So far all the above is double braid polyester. For my topping lift I'm using 3/16" single braid polyester, which is a bit thinner and lighter than 3/16" double braid polyester. My topping lift is fastened at masthead, runs through small cheek block near aft end of boom on port side, and then forward to small clam-cleat with fairlead on port side of boom. The cleat is roughly opposite where my clew reefing line cleats are on starboard side of boom. This puts topping lift control handy from forward portion of cockpit, same location you would be working with reefing lines, and halyards if led to cockpit. I've seen some topping lifts with control point in very inconvenient locations (like a cleat a ways up on the mast, or some setup at aft end of boom). Not recommended...if you need to adjust the topping lift you have to move away from tiller and the rest of your control lines to a potentially less safe location (cabin top if cleat on mast, aft end of cockpit if on end of boom). cheers, John On 03/19/2019 05:56 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
Hi everyone, I bought a 1974 M17 over the winter. It needs some work to be ready to go. I’m figuring some things out, but I am confused about how the running rigging was originally run and set up. And actually what size/material was used too. The sheaves in the masthead have fairly small grooves. It doesn’t appear that I got any halyards or lines with the boat. I see the rigging instructions for the M-15; is there anything similar out there for the M-17? I’ve had no luck searching. Or a list of materials needed to replace all running rigging? Thanks for any input on this. Gerry
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (8)
-
Bob Eeg -
Burton Lowry -
Dave Scobie -
Gerry Lempicki -
Henry Rodriguez -
John Schinnerer -
Peter Zimowsky -
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