Does this drain get a screen or cap of some kind? I see it's threaded as if... https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtnf7z48lia529k/20160202_152613.jpg?dl=0 Jazz
Not by design. Be sure to inspect the actual pipe that is going from that location. The older boats that pipe has deteriorated and is a hazard that could obviously sink the boat. :: Dave Scobie On Feb 3, 2016 4:35 PM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this drain get a screen or cap of some kind? I see it's threaded as if... https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtnf7z48lia529k/20160202_152613.jpg?dl=0
Jazz
Any sort of screen will drastically cut down the flow rate of water you want overboard, even though it might save a dropped wedding ring. I put a couple of other drains in the back wall of my cockpit about three inches above the floor. they are both 11/2 in diameter and have back check valves on the transom side to prevent waves from sloshing aboard. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this drain get a screen or cap of some kind? I see it's threaded as if... https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtnf7z48lia529k/20160202_152613.jpg?dl=0
Jazz
One other thing, As Dave said, check the hose AND thru hull on your cockpit drain. You will have to crawl under the cockpit or down the starboard side berth to get near them but a boat as old as yours should have it done. When I checked my 1977 built hull, the aluminum thru hull pipe that had the cockpit drain hole clamped onto it was loose enough for me to pull it right out of the fiberglass hull. I cleaned it all up and re epoxied it in place and changed the hose to pve where possible and will someday change out the aluminum to a bronze thru hull seacock. to do this I cut a hole in the aft wall of the cockpit. Make it big and you will have excellent access to all the parts you will have to inspect and/or change out. Also a good way to reach the transom when you have to thru bolt something to it. I then used a piece of "Starboard" as a hatch cover and screwed it in place over the hole with a rubber gasket. Well worth the effort. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this drain get a screen or cap of some kind? I see it's threaded as if... https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtnf7z48lia529k/20160202_152613.jpg?dl=0
Jazz
Tom, there's a white hatch/door that's maybe 10 inches across on the aft wall of 5he cockpit right above that drain...is that what you're talking about or you mean making a hole somewhere else? I think it sorta shows in the pic. And I'll have a good look. My thru hulls for the drain appear to be pvc...X2 Jazz On Feb 3, 2016 4:45 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
One other thing, As Dave said, check the hose AND thru hull on your
cockpit
drain. You will have to crawl under the cockpit or down the starboard side berth to get near them but a boat as old as yours should have it done. When I checked my 1977 built hull, the aluminum thru hull pipe that had the cockpit drain hole clamped onto it was loose enough for me to pull it right out of the fiberglass hull. I cleaned it all up and re epoxied it in place and changed the hose to pve where possible and will someday change out the aluminum to a bronze thru hull seacock. to do this I cut a hole in the aft wall of the cockpit. Make it big and you will have excellent access to all the parts you will have to inspect and/or change out. Also a good way to reach the transom when you have to thru bolt something to it. I then used a piece of "Starboard" as a hatch cover and screwed it in place over the hole with a rubber gasket. Well worth the effort. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this drain get a screen or cap of some kind? I see it's threaded as if... https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtnf7z48lia529k/20160202_152613.jpg?dl=0
Jazz
That is the area I was referring to. My '77 model came with no access there so I added it. VERY handy. I have also installed a 6" diameter screw in inspection port near the top aft cockpit coaming on each side of my cockpit. Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when adding wiring for an auto helm. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom, there's a white hatch/door that's maybe 10 inches across on the aft wall of 5he cockpit right above that drain...is that what you're talking about or you mean making a hole somewhere else? I think it sorta shows in the pic. And I'll have a good look. My thru hulls for the drain appear to be pvc...X2
Jazz On Feb 3, 2016 4:45 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
One other thing, As Dave said, check the hose AND thru hull on your
cockpit
drain. You will have to crawl under the cockpit or down the starboard side berth to get near them but a boat as old as yours should have it done. When I checked my 1977 built hull, the aluminum thru hull pipe that had the cockpit drain hole clamped onto it was loose enough for me to pull it right out of the fiberglass hull. I cleaned it all up and re epoxied it in place and changed the hose to pve where possible and will someday change out the aluminum to a bronze thru hull seacock. to do this I cut a hole in the aft wall of the cockpit. Make it big and you will have excellent access to all the parts you will have to inspect and/or change out. Also a good way to reach the transom when you have to thru bolt something to it. I then used a piece of "Starboard" as a hatch cover and screwed it in place over the hole with a rubber gasket. Well worth the effort. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this drain get a screen or cap of some kind? I see it's threaded as if... https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtnf7z48lia529k/20160202_152613.jpg?dl=0
Jazz
Gotcha.. something to consider! I just replaced that running light. Mast light, steaming light and deck light next...get your answers ready on wiring! Lol Jazz On Feb 4, 2016 9:12 AM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
That is the area I was referring to. My '77 model came with no access there so I added it. VERY handy. I have also installed a 6" diameter screw in inspection port near the top aft cockpit coaming on each side of my cockpit. Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when adding wiring for an auto helm.
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom, there's a white hatch/door that's maybe 10 inches across on the aft wall of 5he cockpit right above that drain...is that what you're talking about or you mean making a hole somewhere else? I think it sorta shows in the pic. And I'll have a good look. My thru hulls for the drain appear to be pvc...X2
Jazz On Feb 3, 2016 4:45 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
One other thing, As Dave said, check the hose AND thru hull on your
cockpit
drain. You will have to crawl under the cockpit or down the starboard side berth to get near them but a boat as old as yours should have it done. When I checked my 1977 built hull, the aluminum thru hull pipe that had the cockpit drain hole clamped onto it was loose enough for me to pull it right out of the fiberglass hull. I cleaned it all up and re epoxied it in place and changed the hose to pve where possible and will someday change out the aluminum to a bronze thru hull seacock. to do this I cut a hole in the aft wall of the cockpit. Make it big and you will have excellent access to all the parts you will have to inspect and/or change out. Also a good way to reach the transom when you have to thru bolt something to it. I then used a piece of "Starboard" as a hatch cover and screwed it in place over the hole with a rubber gasket. Well worth the effort. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this drain get a screen or cap of some kind? I see it's threaded as if... https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtnf7z48lia529k/20160202_152613.jpg?dl=0
Jazz
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!). Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it. thanks, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I has to make the multi angled block to keep my stern light horizontal so as not to have the top of it block a lot of light going out the back of the boat. I have seen flat mounted 180degree lights on newer models of Montys so maybe it would be easier for you to get one of those and mount it on the transom and just close up the hole in the aft sloping end of your port coaming. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:41 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks Tom, I may start looking for objects of a suitable angle from which a block could be cut... I've already got a working light, so easier to keep it where it is. And I've already got one rather large hole to fill once I remove the defunct, oversize, backrest-functionality-destroying bulkhead compass mounted starboard of the companionway. I may look for or make a small flush-mount porthole to put there. cheers, John S. On 02/04/2016 08:34 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
I has to make the multi angled block to keep my stern light horizontal so as not to have the top of it block a lot of light going out the back of the boat. I have seen flat mounted 180degree lights on newer models of Montys so maybe it would be easier for you to get one of those and mount it on the transom and just close up the hole in the aft sloping end of your port coaming. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:41 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi John, What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal. When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.I ran the top of my block to the same height as the top of my stern light, for example. Tom <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 10:58 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Thanks Tom,
I may start looking for objects of a suitable angle from which a block could be cut... I've already got a working light, so easier to keep it where it is. And I've already got one rather large hole to fill once I remove the defunct, oversize, backrest-functionality-destroying bulkhead compass mounted starboard of the companionway. I may look for or make a small flush-mount porthole to put there.
cheers, John S.
On 02/04/2016 08:34 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
I has to make the multi angled block to keep my stern light horizontal so as not to have the top of it block a lot of light going out the back of the boat. I have seen flat mounted 180degree lights on newer models of Montys so maybe it would be easier for you to get one of those and mount it on the transom and just close up the hole in the aft sloping end of your port coaming. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:41 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when
adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John, What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal.
If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris 100, which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile. Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat. Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.
Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Your choice of the Plastimo Iris 100 was my 1st choice but being limited in Boat Bucks I went the economical routed (1/3 $) & purchased a bracket mounted Compass that I will be able to mount so it is removable or take it out of the bracket to use as a hand bearing unit. George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:29 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John, What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal.
If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris 100, which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile.
Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat.
Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever
may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.
Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Which one specifically did you buy that was 1/3 the price? Sounds the same otherwise - mount in bracket for boat heading use, take out of bracket for hand bearing use. I am not loaded with boat bucks either, curious what you got. thanks, John S. On 02/05/2016 07:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Your choice of the Plastimo Iris 100 was my 1st choice but being limited in Boat Bucks I went the economical routed (1/3 $) & purchased a bracket mounted Compass that I will be able to mount so it is removable or take it out of the bracket to use as a hand bearing unit.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:29 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John, What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal.
If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris 100, which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile.
Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat.
Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever
may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.
Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John S. I purchased a Black one that has a metal bracket as I thought it would stand up to boat abuse better. Don't know if this manufacture has a metal bracket. http://www.thecompassstore.com/m550w.html Here is another that might interest you as you mentioned a Kayak. http://www.thecompassstore.com/51orcay.html The Plastimo you are considering is the best for the all around intended purpose. George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 12:10 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Which one specifically did you buy that was 1/3 the price? Sounds the same otherwise - mount in bracket for boat heading use, take out of bracket for hand bearing use. I am not loaded with boat bucks either, curious what you got.
thanks, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Your choice of the Plastimo Iris 100 was my 1st choice but being limited in Boat Bucks I went the economical routed (1/3 $) & purchased a bracket mounted Compass that I will be able to mount so it is removable or take it out of the bracket to use as a hand bearing unit.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:29 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John,
What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal.
If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris 100, which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile.
Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat.
Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever
may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.
Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John S Just found one on e-bay for 9.95 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pivoting-Sea-Marine-Compass-with-Mount-for-Boat-Cara... George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 12:20 PM, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
John S.
I purchased a Black one that has a metal bracket as I thought it would stand up to boat abuse better. Don't know if this manufacture has a metal bracket.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/m550w.html
Here is another that might interest you as you mentioned a Kayak.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/51orcay.html
The Plastimo you are considering is the best for the all around intended purpose.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 12:10 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Which one specifically did you buy that was 1/3 the price? Sounds the same otherwise - mount in bracket for boat heading use, take out of bracket for hand bearing use. I am not loaded with boat bucks either, curious what you got.
thanks, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Your choice of the Plastimo Iris 100 was my 1st choice but being limited in Boat Bucks I went the economical routed (1/3 $) & purchased a bracket mounted Compass that I will be able to mount so it is removable or take it out of the bracket to use as a hand bearing unit.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:29 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John,
What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal.
If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris 100, which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile.
Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat.
Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever
may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.
Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks George, I see what you mean, I've seen those kind before also. My grandfather had one somewhat similar in his car when I was a kid (maybe because he was a commercial fisherman most of his working life). cheers, John S. On 02/06/2016 10:20 AM, George Iemmolo wrote:
John S.
I purchased a Black one that has a metal bracket as I thought it would stand up to boat abuse better. Don't know if this manufacture has a metal bracket.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/m550w.html
Here is another that might interest you as you mentioned a Kayak.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/51orcay.html
The Plastimo you are considering is the best for the all around intended purpose.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 12:10 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Which one specifically did you buy that was 1/3 the price? Sounds the same otherwise - mount in bracket for boat heading use, take out of bracket for hand bearing use. I am not loaded with boat bucks either, curious what you got.
thanks, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Your choice of the Plastimo Iris 100 was my 1st choice but being limited in Boat Bucks I went the economical routed (1/3 $) & purchased a bracket mounted Compass that I will be able to mount so it is removable or take it out of the bracket to use as a hand bearing unit.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:29 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John,
What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal.
If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris 100, which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile.
Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat.
Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever
may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.
Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Whatever works. For $9.95 you still get all 360 of the degrees. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 1:42 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Thanks George,
I see what you mean, I've seen those kind before also. My grandfather had one somewhat similar in his car when I was a kid (maybe because he was a commercial fisherman most of his working life).
cheers, John S.
On 02/06/2016 10:20 AM, George Iemmolo wrote:
John S.
I purchased a Black one that has a metal bracket as I thought it would stand up to boat abuse better. Don't know if this manufacture has a metal bracket.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/m550w.html
Here is another that might interest you as you mentioned a Kayak.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/51orcay.html
The Plastimo you are considering is the best for the all around intended purpose.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 12:10 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Which one specifically did you buy that was 1/3 the price?
Sounds the same otherwise - mount in bracket for boat heading use, take out of bracket for hand bearing use. I am not loaded with boat bucks either, curious what you got.
thanks, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Your choice of the Plastimo Iris 100 was my 1st choice but being limited
in Boat Bucks I went the economical routed (1/3 $) & purchased a bracket mounted Compass that I will be able to mount so it is removable or take it out of the bracket to use as a hand bearing unit.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:29 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John,
What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal.
If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris 100, which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile.
Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat.
Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever
may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will
not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.
Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
--
John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
& they have compensating adjustments to correct for any magnetic influence. Can't go too wrong for the kind of sailing I do. George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Whatever works. For $9.95 you still get all 360 of the degrees.
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 1:42 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Thanks George,
I see what you mean, I've seen those kind before also. My grandfather had one somewhat similar in his car when I was a kid (maybe because he was a commercial fisherman most of his working life).
cheers, John S.
On 02/06/2016 10:20 AM, George Iemmolo wrote:
John S.
I purchased a Black one that has a metal bracket as I thought it would stand up to boat abuse better. Don't know if this manufacture has a metal bracket.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/m550w.html
Here is another that might interest you as you mentioned a Kayak.
http://www.thecompassstore.com/51orcay.html
The Plastimo you are considering is the best for the all around intended purpose.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 12:10 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Which one specifically did you buy that was 1/3 the price?
Sounds the same otherwise - mount in bracket for boat heading use, take out of bracket for hand bearing use. I am not loaded with boat bucks either, curious what you got.
thanks, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Your choice of the Plastimo Iris 100 was my 1st choice but being limited
in Boat Bucks I went the economical routed (1/3 $) & purchased a bracket mounted Compass that I will be able to mount so it is removable or take it out of the bracket to use as a hand bearing unit.
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:29 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John,
> What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld > but I > wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on > the > boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal. > > > If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris
100,
which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile.
Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat.
Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever
may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will > not > catch anything and cause damage to your boat. > > > Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Found a used pair of Fujinon Mariner binoculars on the web a couple months ago for a very good price. These have a compass built in that is visible through the eyepieces so while you are siting something with the binos you can also take a bearing on the direction you are looking. Have to make a place for them inside the cabin on the cockpit bulkhead now. The Plastimo unit sounds very handy. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:29 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/05/2016 07:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Hi John, What do you find works as to a compass? I have read about handheld but I wonder if their reading would change depending on where you were on the boat when you used it due to battery, ob or other chunks of metal.
If I get a "nice" compass, I am leaning towards the Plastimo Iris 100, which can mount in a clip in most any orientation, removable for handheld, clipped on for hands-free reading. I can also use it on my kayak if I need it there, so more versatile.
Compass sensitivity to ferrous hunks of metal falls off quickly with distance - cube of the distance I think. At least, magnetic field around a magnet falls off as cube of distance. Not sure if it's the same for the effect of hunk of ferrous metal on compass magnet but I think so. Just take a hand compass and hold it close to your car, then move it away...you'll see the effect fall off within a couple feet (and that's a big hunk of metal). In other words, if you are taking a bearing off the stern and steady your hand on top of your outboard, you will have issues with the reading. But if you rest your hand on the other side of the transom, or just lift it up a couple feet, probably no effect. I can think of lots of mounting points with visibility from cockpit that would be fine WRT metal objects on the boat.
Being able to do a hand bearing with the same compass I can mount on a fixed clip makes a lot of sense to me for coastal (including inland coastal) navigation. If I've only got a fixed mount compass I have to either have another hand sighting compass with me, or, point the whole boat at my sighting points to get a bearing line.
When you fashion your block consider someday a line, mooring or whatever
may have to slide over your block and stern light so be sure it will not catch anything and cause damage to your boat.
Good point, thanks! I will look at that...think it will be OK, it is aft of the cleat and below it as well and the light is that smooth round Perko dome type.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Interesting discussion on stern lights..... In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level. Is anyone else using this configuration?? *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180 degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb. Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her. Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision. The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that.. cheers, John S. On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180 degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when
adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 2/5/2016 9:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: Tom, Have you ever seen phosphorescence in your flush toilet when you flush the toilet and it is dark? Quite a sight too! Connie
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180 degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when
adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
No, Connie, that is a new one for me.Wonder if the sealife off Fuksahima (?), Japan glow. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/5/2016 9:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Tom,
Have you ever seen phosphorescence in your flush toilet when you flush the toilet and it is dark? Quite a sight too!
Connie
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when
> adding wiring for an auto helm. > > > Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white stern. So I am covered when under sail at night. But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light. So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast. But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it. Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies. cheers, John S. On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180 degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when
adding wiring for an auto helm.
Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer sailor mast... I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ... However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering. Attached is a picture of my mast head cap. Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins... It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove... Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when
> adding wiring for an auto helm. > > > Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
--
John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Great solution to a multitude of Items at the masthead. I did not see where the rotating wind indicator mounts unless it is integrated somehow with the antenna and was not mounted when you took the picture George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern
light
at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
> > ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when > >> adding wiring for an auto helm. >> >> >> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style > light > installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it > drops > down to the transom. > But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite > steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern > (problematic, for a stern light!). > > Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) > included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood > wedge > under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. > > For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it > something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? > > I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something > ready-made or I'll need to make it. > > thanks, > John S. > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Never mind I went back and looked and there it is😀 George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 5:34 PM, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
Great solution to a multitude of Items at the masthead. I did not see where the rotating wind indicator mounts unless it is integrated somehow with the antenna and was not mounted when you took the picture
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
> > In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round > white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. > > So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under > power > my > lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted > nav > lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light > at > cockpit level. > > Is anyone else using this configuration?? > > > > *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* > > *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* > > > > On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> > wrote: > > On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > >> >> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when >> >>> adding wiring for an auto helm. >>> >>> >>> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style >> light >> installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it >> drops >> down to the transom. >> But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite >> steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern >> (problematic, for a stern light!). >> >> Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) >> included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood >> wedge >> under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. >> >> For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it >> something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? >> >> I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something >> ready-made or I'll need to make it. >> >> thanks, >> John S. >> >> >> -- >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >> http://eco-living.net >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >> >> >> >> > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Very nice! On 2/6/2016 5:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when > >> adding wiring for an auto helm. >> >> >> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style > light > installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it > drops > down to the transom. > But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite > steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern > (problematic, for a stern light!). > > Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) > included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood > wedge > under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. > > For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it > something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? > > I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something > ready-made or I'll need to make it. > > thanks, > John S. > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Nicely done! You are applying your P.Eng. in valuable ways here... :-) I was thinking about something removable too, just hadn't got to any details. Brings me back to the thread about pictures...quite a few posted recently, but not saved for all anywhere. I will post separately on that again with a proposal... cheers, John S. On 02/06/2016 02:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
> > ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when > >> adding wiring for an auto helm. >> >> >> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style > light > installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it > drops > down to the transom. > But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite > steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern > (problematic, for a stern light!). > > Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) > included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood > wedge > under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. > > For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it > something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? > > I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something > ready-made or I'll need to make it. > > thanks, > John S. > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > --
John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 2/6/2016 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote: Keith, Congratulations. That's an elegant solution to the problem. You have all the benefits of nav lights, VHF antenna, and your sheave in one neat, easily removable package. Connie
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when > >> adding wiring for an auto helm. >> >> >> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style > light > installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it > drops > down to the transom. > But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite > steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern > (problematic, for a stern light!). > > Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) > included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood > wedge > under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. > > For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it > something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? > > I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something > ready-made or I'll need to make it. > > thanks, > John S. > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks Connie, I am quite happy with how it turned out.. Keith Keith R. Martin, P.Eng. Burnaby, BC, Canada Serenity M17, Hull #353 On Feb 7, 2016 5:56 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/6/2016 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Keith,
Congratulations. That's an elegant solution to the problem. You have all the benefits of nav lights, VHF antenna, and your sheave in one neat, easily removable package.
Connie
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white
stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John,
I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round > white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. > > So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under > power > my > lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted > nav > lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern > light > at > cockpit level. > > Is anyone else using this configuration?? > > > > *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* > > *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* > > > > On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> > wrote: > > On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > > ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when >> >> adding wiring for an auto helm. >>> >>> >>> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style >>> >> light >> installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it >> drops >> down to the transom. >> But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite >> steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern >> (problematic, for a stern light!). >> >> Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like >> rudders) >> included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood >> wedge >> under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. >> >> For those who have something like that for their stern light - was >> it >> something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? >> >> I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's >> something >> ready-made or I'll need to make it. >> >> thanks, >> John S. >> >> >> -- >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >> http://eco-living.net >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >> >> >> >> >> -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Keith, Is there a reason you used stainless instead of aluminum? Any reason to not consider aluminum stock for something like this as well? thanks, John S. On 02/08/2016 08:20 AM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Thanks Connie, I am quite happy with how it turned out..
Keith
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng. Burnaby, BC, Canada Serenity M17, Hull #353 On Feb 7, 2016 5:56 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/6/2016 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Keith,
Congratulations. That's an elegant solution to the problem. You have all the benefits of nav lights, VHF antenna, and your sheave in one neat, easily removable package.
Connie
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white
stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John,
I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
> preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush > mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a > virus-free computer protected by Avast. > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < > keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote: > > Interesting discussion on stern lights..... > > In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round >> white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. >> >> So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under >> power >> my >> lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted >> nav >> lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern >> light >> at >> cockpit level. >> >> Is anyone else using this configuration?? >> >> >> >> *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* >> >> *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* >> >> >> >> On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> >> wrote: >> >> On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >> >> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when >>> >>> adding wiring for an auto helm. >>>> >>>> >>>> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style >>>> >>> light >>> installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it >>> drops >>> down to the transom. >>> But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite >>> steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern >>> (problematic, for a stern light!). >>> >>> Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like >>> rudders) >>> included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood >>> wedge >>> under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. >>> >>> For those who have something like that for their stern light - was >>> it >>> something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? >>> >>> I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's >>> something >>> ready-made or I'll need to make it. >>> >>> thanks, >>> John S. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> - Eco-Living - >>> Whole Systems Design Services >>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>> http://eco-living.net >>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi John, I chose stainless to get the desired strength in a given std dimension and wall thickness from metal supermarkets. This helped with one of the key "features" I wanted which was the ability a 5 inch "floating span" to move my spinnaker sheave forward by 4-5 inches to provide clearance for my top down furler. To be fair I found a thicker aluminium stock that probably would have done the trick except for the fact that I couldn't get it to pass the std 3x design hurdle all us engineers are so fond of :) In the end the the final unit is not very heavy .. Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 8 February 2016 at 14:38, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Keith,
Is there a reason you used stainless instead of aluminum? Any reason to not consider aluminum stock for something like this as well?
thanks, John S.
On 02/08/2016 08:20 AM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Thanks Connie, I am quite happy with how it turned out..
Keith
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng. Burnaby, BC, Canada Serenity M17, Hull #353 On Feb 7, 2016 5:56 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/6/2016 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Keith,
Congratulations. That's an elegant solution to the problem. You have all the benefits of nav lights, VHF antenna, and your sheave in one neat, easily removable package.
Connie
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer
sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white
stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John,
I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle > for > a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 > anyhow. I > can > tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight > across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or > completely > hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb. > > Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) > and > 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of > it) > would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I > think...I'll > check when I get a battery in her. > > Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the > mast. > I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and > through > the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will > need > to > - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an > all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night > vision. > > The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, > so > I'm leaning towards that.. > > cheers, > John S. > > On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > > Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and > > preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush >> mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a >> virus-free computer protected by Avast. >> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < >> keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Interesting discussion on stern lights..... >> >> In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all >> round >> >>> white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. >>> >>> So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under >>> power >>> my >>> lights are configured with the all white up top and the side >>> mounted >>> nav >>> lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern >>> light >>> at >>> cockpit level. >>> >>> Is anyone else using this configuration?? >>> >>> >>> >>> *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* >>> >>> *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>> >>> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when >>> >>>> >>>> adding wiring for an auto helm. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome >>>>> style >>>>> >>>>> light >>>> installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it >>>> drops >>>> down to the transom. >>>> But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted >>>> quite >>>> steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light >>>> astern >>>> (problematic, for a stern light!). >>>> >>>> Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like >>>> rudders) >>>> included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood >>>> wedge >>>> under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. >>>> >>>> For those who have something like that for their stern light - was >>>> it >>>> something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? >>>> >>>> I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's >>>> something >>>> ready-made or I'll need to make it. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> John S. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> - Eco-Living - >>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>> http://eco-living.net >>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>> >>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
3x? Must be a civil, and not an aerospace, engineer! :-) ----- John Tyner M-15 # 412 "Chimpanzee" On 2/8/2016 9:53 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Hi John,
I chose stainless to get the desired strength in a given std dimension and wall thickness from metal supermarkets. This helped with one of the key "features" I wanted which was the ability a 5 inch "floating span" to move my spinnaker sheave forward by 4-5 inches to provide clearance for my top down furler.
To be fair I found a thicker aluminium stock that probably would have done the trick except for the fact that I couldn't get it to pass the std 3x design hurdle all us engineers are so fond of :)
In the end the the final unit is not very heavy ..
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 8 February 2016 at 14:38, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Keith,
Is there a reason you used stainless instead of aluminum? Any reason to not consider aluminum stock for something like this as well?
thanks, John S.
On 02/08/2016 08:20 AM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Thanks Connie, I am quite happy with how it turned out..
Keith
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng. Burnaby, BC, Canada Serenity M17, Hull #353 On Feb 7, 2016 5:56 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/6/2016 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Keith,
Congratulations. That's an elegant solution to the problem. You have all the benefits of nav lights, VHF antenna, and your sheave in one neat, easily removable package.
Connie
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer
sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white
stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John,
> I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 > stern > light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of > the > mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights > from > the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the > stern > light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit > at > night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. > Nothing > like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the > waves. > Not > to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really > beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. > fair winds, > Tom B > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a > virus-free computer protected by Avast. > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> > wrote: > > The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180 > > degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle >> for >> a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 >> anyhow. I >> can >> tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight >> across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or >> completely >> hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb. >> >> Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) >> and >> 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of >> it) >> would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I >> think...I'll >> check when I get a battery in her. >> >> Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the >> mast. >> I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and >> through >> the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will >> need >> to >> - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an >> all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night >> vision. >> >> The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, >> so >> I'm leaning towards that.. >> >> cheers, >> John S. >> >> On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >> >> Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and >> >> preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush >>> mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. >>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a >>> virus-free computer protected by Avast. >>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < >>> keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Interesting discussion on stern lights..... >>> >>> In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all >>> round >>> >>>> white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. >>>> >>>> So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under >>>> power >>>> my >>>> lights are configured with the all white up top and the side >>>> mounted >>>> nav >>>> lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern >>>> light >>>> at >>>> cockpit level. >>>> >>>> Is anyone else using this configuration?? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* >>>> >>>> *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>>> >>>> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when >>>> >>>>> adding wiring for an auto helm. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome >>>>>> style >>>>>> >>>>>> light >>>>> installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it >>>>> drops >>>>> down to the transom. >>>>> But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted >>>>> quite >>>>> steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light >>>>> astern >>>>> (problematic, for a stern light!). >>>>> >>>>> Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like >>>>> rudders) >>>>> included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood >>>>> wedge >>>>> under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. >>>>> >>>>> For those who have something like that for their stern light - was >>>>> it >>>>> something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off? >>>>> >>>>> I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's >>>>> something >>>>> ready-made or I'll need to make it. >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> John S. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>> - Eco-Living - >>>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>>> http://eco-living.net >>>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >> http://eco-living.net >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >> >> >> >> -- >> > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Electrical actually, but with my fair share of mechanical stuff throughout my career... *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 8 February 2016 at 19:05, John Tyner <tynerjr@md.metrocast.net> wrote:
3x? Must be a civil, and not an aerospace, engineer! :-) ----- John Tyner M-15 # 412 "Chimpanzee"
On 2/8/2016 9:53 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Hi John,
I chose stainless to get the desired strength in a given std dimension and wall thickness from metal supermarkets. This helped with one of the key "features" I wanted which was the ability a 5 inch "floating span" to move my spinnaker sheave forward by 4-5 inches to provide clearance for my top down furler.
To be fair I found a thicker aluminium stock that probably would have done the trick except for the fact that I couldn't get it to pass the std 3x design hurdle all us engineers are so fond of :)
In the end the the final unit is not very heavy ..
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 8 February 2016 at 14:38, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Keith,
Is there a reason you used stainless instead of aluminum? Any reason to not consider aluminum stock for something like this as well?
thanks, John S.
On 02/08/2016 08:20 AM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Thanks Connie, I am quite happy with how it turned out..
Keith
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng. Burnaby, BC, Canada Serenity M17, Hull #353 On Feb 7, 2016 5:56 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/6/2016 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Keith,
Congratulations. That's an elegant solution to the problem. You have all the benefits of nav lights, VHF antenna, and your sheave in one neat, easily removable package.
Connie
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer
sailor mast...
I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was reluctant to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ...
However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted VHF antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", and 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker sheave used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable mast head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering.
Attached is a picture of my mast head cap.
Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace of teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 power connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of the antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins...
It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove...
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white
stern. So I am covered when under sail at night. > > But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing > 225 > deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an > all-around > white light. > For anchoring, also an all-around white light. > > So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. > But > yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a > trailer > sailor. And wiring in the mast. > > But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. > Just > needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the > steaming > light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. > So > a > clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it. > > Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most > I've > done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like > whooshing > along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! > Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago > around > Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" > sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing > those > channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible > angles, > colors, and frequencies. > > cheers, > John S. > > On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > > John, > > I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 >> stern >> light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top >> of >> the >> mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. >> lights >> from >> the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the >> stern >> light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the >> cockpit >> at >> night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. >> Nothing >> like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the >> waves. >> Not >> to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. >> Really >> beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. >> fair winds, >> Tom B >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a >> virus-free computer protected by Avast. >> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer < >> john@eco-living.net> >> wrote: >> >> The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180 >> >> degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible >> angle >> >>> for >>> a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 >>> anyhow. I >>> can >>> tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I >>> sight >>> across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or >>> completely >>> hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb. >>> >>> Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of >>> cockpit) >>> and >>> 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of >>> it) >>> would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I >>> think...I'll >>> check when I get a battery in her. >>> >>> Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the >>> mast. >>> I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and >>> through >>> the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will >>> need >>> to >>> - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have >>> an >>> all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with >>> night >>> vision. >>> >>> The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor >>> light, >>> so >>> I'm leaning towards that.. >>> >>> cheers, >>> John S. >>> >>> On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>> >>> Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light >>> and >>> >>> preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light >>> flush >>> >>>> mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the >>>> cockpit. >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a >>>> virus-free computer protected by Avast. >>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >>>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < >>>> keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Interesting discussion on stern lights..... >>>> >>>> In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all >>>> round >>>> >>>> white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. >>>>> >>>>> So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when >>>>> under >>>>> power >>>>> my >>>>> lights are configured with the all white up top and the side >>>>> mounted >>>>> nav >>>>> lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern >>>>> light >>>>> at >>>>> cockpit level. >>>>> >>>>> Is anyone else using this configuration?? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* >>>>> >>>>> *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer < >>>>> john@eco-living.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when >>>>> >>>>> adding wiring for an auto helm. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome >>>>>>> style >>>>>>> >>>>>>> light >>>>>>> >>>>>> installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where >>>>>> it >>>>>> drops >>>>>> down to the transom. >>>>>> But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted >>>>>> quite >>>>>> steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light >>>>>> astern >>>>>> (problematic, for a stern light!). >>>>>> >>>>>> Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like >>>>>> rudders) >>>>>> included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice >>>>>> wood >>>>>> wedge >>>>>> under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. >>>>>> >>>>>> For those who have something like that for their stern light - >>>>>> was >>>>>> it >>>>>> something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, >>>>>> one-off? >>>>>> >>>>>> I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's >>>>>> something >>>>>> ready-made or I'll need to make it. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> John S. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>>> - Eco-Living - >>>>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>>>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>>>> http://eco-living.net >>>>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------- >>> - Eco-Living - >>> Whole Systems Design Services >>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>> http://eco-living.net >>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > --
John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
You guys aren't right in the head. Jazz On Feb 8, 2016 7:09 PM, "Keith R. Martin" <keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Electrical actually, but with my fair share of mechanical stuff throughout my career...
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 8 February 2016 at 19:05, John Tyner <tynerjr@md.metrocast.net> wrote:
3x? Must be a civil, and not an aerospace, engineer! :-) ----- John Tyner M-15 # 412 "Chimpanzee"
On 2/8/2016 9:53 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Hi John,
I chose stainless to get the desired strength in a given std dimension and wall thickness from metal supermarkets. This helped with one of the key "features" I wanted which was the ability a 5 inch "floating span" to move my spinnaker sheave forward by 4-5 inches to provide clearance for my top down furler.
To be fair I found a thicker aluminium stock that probably would have done the trick except for the fact that I couldn't get it to pass the std 3x design hurdle all us engineers are so fond of :)
In the end the the final unit is not very heavy ..
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 8 February 2016 at 14:38, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Keith,
Is there a reason you used stainless instead of aluminum? Any reason to not consider aluminum stock for something like this as well?
thanks, John S.
On 02/08/2016 08:20 AM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Thanks Connie, I am quite happy with how it turned out..
Keith
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng. Burnaby, BC, Canada Serenity M17, Hull #353 On Feb 7, 2016 5:56 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 2/6/2016 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Keith,
Congratulations. That's an elegant solution to the problem. You
have
all the benefits of nav lights, VHF antenna, and your sheave in one neat, easily removable package.
Connie
John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a trailer
> sailor mast... > > I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was > reluctant > to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ... > > However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted > VHF > antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", > and > 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker > sheave > used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable > mast > head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering. > > Attached is a picture of my mast head cap. > > Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace > of > teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round > white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... > It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 > power > connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of > the > antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins... > > It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove... > > > Keith > > > *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* > > *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* > > > > On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> > wrote: > > Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white > > stern. So I am covered when under sail at night. >> >> But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing >> 225 >> deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an >> all-around >> white light. >> For anchoring, also an all-around white light. >> >> So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. >> But >> yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a >> trailer >> sailor. And wiring in the mast. >> >> But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. >> Just >> needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the >> steaming >> light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. >> So >> a >> clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it. >> >> Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most >> I've >> done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like >> whooshing >> along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! >> Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago >> around >> Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" >> sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing >> those >> channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible >> angles, >> colors, and frequencies. >> >> cheers, >> John S. >> >> On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 >>> stern >>> light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top >>> of >>> the >>> mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. >>> lights >>> from >>> the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the >>> stern >>> light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the >>> cockpit >>> at >>> night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. >>> Nothing >>> like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the >>> waves. >>> Not >>> to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. >>> Really >>> beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. >>> fair winds, >>> Tom B >>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a >>> virus-free computer protected by Avast. >>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer < >>> john@eco-living.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180 >>> >>> degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible >>> angle >>> >>>> for >>>> a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 >>>> anyhow. I >>>> can >>>> tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I >>>> sight >>>> across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or >>>> completely >>>> hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb. >>>> >>>> Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of >>>> cockpit) >>>> and >>>> 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of >>>> it) >>>> would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I >>>> think...I'll >>>> check when I get a battery in her. >>>> >>>> Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the >>>> mast. >>>> I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and >>>> through >>>> the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will >>>> need >>>> to >>>> - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have >>>> an >>>> all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with >>>> night >>>> vision. >>>> >>>> The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor >>>> light, >>>> so >>>> I'm leaning towards that.. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> John S. >>>> >>>> On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>>> >>>> Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light >>>> and >>>> >>>> preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light >>>> flush >>>> >>>>> mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the >>>>> cockpit. >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a >>>>> virus-free computer protected by Avast. >>>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >>>>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < >>>>> keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Interesting discussion on stern lights..... >>>>> >>>>> In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all >>>>> round >>>>> >>>>> white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. >>>>>> >>>>>> So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when >>>>>> under >>>>>> power >>>>>> my >>>>>> lights are configured with the all white up top and the side >>>>>> mounted >>>>>> nav >>>>>> lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern >>>>>> light >>>>>> at >>>>>> cockpit level. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is anyone else using this configuration?? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer < >>>>>> john@eco-living.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when >>>>>> >>>>>> adding wiring for an auto helm. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome >>>>>>>> style >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> light >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> drops >>>>>>> down to the transom. >>>>>>> But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>> steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light >>>>>>> astern >>>>>>> (problematic, for a stern light!). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like >>>>>>> rudders) >>>>>>> included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice >>>>>>> wood >>>>>>> wedge >>>>>>> under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who have something like that for their stern light - >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, >>>>>>> one-off? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's >>>>>>> something >>>>>>> ready-made or I'll need to make it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks, >>>>>>> John S. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> - Eco-Living - >>>>>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>>>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>>>>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>>>>> http://eco-living.net >>>>>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> - Eco-Living - >>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>> http://eco-living.net >>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>> >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >> http://eco-living.net >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >> >> >> >> >> -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
That's true, for me, anyway! :-) ----- John Tyner M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee" On 2/9/2016 1:33 AM, Jazzy wrote:
You guys aren't right in the head.
Jazz On Feb 8, 2016 7:09 PM, "Keith R. Martin" <keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Electrical actually, but with my fair share of mechanical stuff throughout my career...
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 8 February 2016 at 19:05, John Tyner <tynerjr@md.metrocast.net> wrote:
3x? Must be a civil, and not an aerospace, engineer! :-) ----- John Tyner M-15 # 412 "Chimpanzee"
On 2/8/2016 9:53 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Hi John,
I chose stainless to get the desired strength in a given std dimension and wall thickness from metal supermarkets. This helped with one of the key "features" I wanted which was the ability a 5 inch "floating span" to move my spinnaker sheave forward by 4-5 inches to provide clearance for my top down furler.
To be fair I found a thicker aluminium stock that probably would have done the trick except for the fact that I couldn't get it to pass the std 3x design hurdle all us engineers are so fond of :)
In the end the the final unit is not very heavy ..
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 8 February 2016 at 14:38, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote: Keith,
Is there a reason you used stainless instead of aluminum? Any reason to not consider aluminum stock for something like this as well?
thanks, John S.
On 02/08/2016 08:20 AM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Thanks Connie, I am quite happy with how it turned out..
Keith
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng. Burnaby, BC, Canada Serenity M17, Hull #353 On Feb 7, 2016 5:56 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote: On 2/6/2016 4:50 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
> Keith, > > Congratulations. That's an elegant solution to the problem. You have > all > the benefits of nav lights, VHF antenna, and your sheave in one neat, > easily removable package. > > Connie > > John brings up a good point about having "stuff" on the top of a > trailer > >> sailor mast... >> >> I too was worried about that when trailering the boat but I was >> reluctant >> to trade off the visibility provided by mast mounted lighting ... >> >> However when combined with my other "wants", including a mast mounted >> VHF >> antenna in support of my penchant for sailing "off the beaten track", >> and >> 4-5 inches of forward separation between my furling jib & spinnaker >> sheave >> used by my top down asym furler, my solution was to fab up a removable >> mast >> head assembly that could be easily removed when trailering. >> >> Attached is a picture of my mast head cap. >> >> Constructed out of standard square stainless tubing and a small peace >> of >> teak, it provides a mounting arrangement for the tri-colour, all round >> white, VHF antenna , windex, and extended spinnaker sheave... >> It slides firmly over top of the existing bare masthead, has a flat 4 >> power >> connector for the lights and the standard stainless RF connector of >> the >> antenna, it is secured with two 1/4" stainless rigging pins... >> >> It takes just a couple of minutes to install or remove... >> >> >> Keith >> >> >> *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* >> >> *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* >> >> >> >> On 6 February 2016 at 13:44, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> >> wrote: >> >> Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white >> >> stern. So I am covered when under sail at night. >>> But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing >>> 225 >>> deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an >>> all-around >>> white light. >>> For anchoring, also an all-around white light. >>> >>> So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. >>> But >>> yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a >>> trailer >>> sailor. And wiring in the mast. >>> >>> But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. >>> Just >>> needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the >>> steaming >>> light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. >>> So >>> a >>> clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it. >>> >>> Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most >>> I've >>> done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like >>> whooshing >>> along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! >>> Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago >>> around >>> Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" >>> sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing >>> those >>> channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible >>> angles, >>> colors, and frequencies. >>> >>> cheers, >>> John S. >>> >>> On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 >>>> stern >>>> light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top >>>> of >>>> the >>>> mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. >>>> lights >>>> from >>>> the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the >>>> stern >>>> light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the >>>> cockpit >>>> at >>>> night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. >>>> Nothing >>>> like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the >>>> waves. >>>> Not >>>> to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. >>>> Really >>>> beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. >>>> fair winds, >>>> Tom B >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a >>>> virus-free computer protected by Avast. >>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >>>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer < >>>> john@eco-living.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180 >>>> >>>> degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible >>>> angle >>>> >>>>> for >>>>> a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 >>>>> anyhow. I >>>>> can >>>>> tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I >>>>> sight >>>>> across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or >>>>> completely >>>>> hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb. >>>>> >>>>> Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of >>>>> cockpit) >>>>> and >>>>> 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of >>>>> it) >>>>> would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I >>>>> think...I'll >>>>> check when I get a battery in her. >>>>> >>>>> Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the >>>>> mast. >>>>> I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and >>>>> through >>>>> the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will >>>>> need >>>>> to >>>>> - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have >>>>> an >>>>> all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with >>>>> night >>>>> vision. >>>>> >>>>> The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor >>>>> light, >>>>> so >>>>> I'm leaning towards that.. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, >>>>> John S. >>>>> >>>>> On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light >>>>> flush >>>>> >>>>>> mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the >>>>>> cockpit. >>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a >>>>>> virus-free computer protected by Avast. >>>>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >>>>>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < >>>>>> keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting discussion on stern lights..... >>>>>> >>>>>> In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all >>>>>> round >>>>>> >>>>>> white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow. >>>>>>> So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when >>>>>>> under >>>>>>> power >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> lights are configured with the all white up top and the side >>>>>>> mounted >>>>>>> nav >>>>>>> lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern >>>>>>> light >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> cockpit level. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is anyone else using this configuration?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer < >>>>>>> john@eco-living.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when >>>>>>> adding wiring for an auto helm. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome >>>>>>>>> style >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> light >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> drops >>>>>>>> down to the transom. >>>>>>>> But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted >>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>> steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light >>>>>>>> astern >>>>>>>> (problematic, for a stern light!). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like >>>>>>>> rudders) >>>>>>>> included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice >>>>>>>> wood >>>>>>>> wedge >>>>>>>> under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For those who have something like that for their stern light - >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, >>>>>>>> one-off? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>> ready-made or I'll need to make it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks, >>>>>>>> John S. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> - Eco-Living - >>>>>>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>>>>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>>>>>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>>>>>> http://eco-living.net >>>>>>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>> - Eco-Living - >>>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>>> http://eco-living.net >>>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> - Eco-Living - >>> Whole Systems Design Services >>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>> http://eco-living.net >>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I added a steaming light, 2/3 the way up the mast. On my first Monty 17 one evening sailing into the harbor down in Galveston, Tx. I was ghosting along looking over the port rail at a beautiful full moon about 20 degrees above the horizon when suddenly a double masted schooner with all sails set (scooned) between me and the moon such that I could see the moonlight highlight all the seams in the sails as well as the soft brown tones in the sail cloth. It happened so quickly and quietly save the swish of their hull through the water that I just sat there "with my mouth open". Sounds like you have had some great and unique experiences in your sailing career. Ain't this the sport!? Fair winds and moonlight cruises, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 3:44 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, I have the normal deck nav lights - split green/red bow, white stern. So I am covered when under sail at night.
But if I want to motor at night I also need either a forward facing 225 deg. white light ("steaming" light) plus stern light, or, an all-around white light. For anchoring, also an all-around white light.
So I'm thinking the all-around white covers both anchor and steaming. But yeah, I'd rather not add fragile stuff to the top of the mast on a trailer sailor. And wiring in the mast.
But neither anchor nor steaming light needs to be on top of mast. Just needs to be visible 360 degrees, and there's something about the steaming light is supposed to be a meter or more above the green/red lights. So a clamp-on LED 360 deg. light would probably cover it.
Agree about the night sailing...it is an awesome experience. Most I've done of it was in Hilo bay on a Corsair 31 tri. Nothing like whooshing along at low-heel multihull speeds in the tropical moonlight! Many many years ago, got to do a night passage in the archipelago around Stockholm, Sweden. In a pre-WWII classic wooden "archipelago cruiser" sailboat, no less. It's quite the navigation experience, sailing those channels in the dark, setting course via multiple lights' visible angles, colors, and frequencies.
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 07:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, I had considered the all around white light combined with the 135 stern light plus the red and green but it added almost a foot to the top of the mast plus I already had the wiring roughed in for the deck nav. lights from the factory so I went that way. You are correct and I am glad the stern light is only 135degrees. Less chance of light bleed into the cockpit at night.I plan to do night sailing as I have done with all my boats. Nothing like being out there for a full moon and watch it rise above the waves. Not to mention the phosphorescence you can stir up with your wake. Really beautiful time to go out. No hot sun either. fair winds, Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:12 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
The dome-top perko stern lights look at a glance like they are 180
degrees, but I'm pretty sure they are 135, the specified visible angle for a stern light per USCG rules. Mine is something less than 180 anyhow. I can tell just by looking at the arc vs. the whole circle, plus if I sight across the edges of the vertical opening, the bulb is nearly or completely hidden. If it were 180 I would see half the bulb.
Given the mounting location (on slope of coaming at rear of cockpit) and 135 degree visible angle, the cockpit (certainly the forward 3/4 of it) would be shielded from the bulb due to location and angle, I think...I'll check when I get a battery in her.
Kevin's configuration is nifty and legal...but more wiring in the mast. I'm wanting to avoid having to bother wiring inside the mast and through the deck. But if I'm ever going to motor at night "legally," I will need to - for all-around white, or, 225 degree "steaming" light. Or, have an all-around white light mounted down low where it will mess with night vision.
The all-around white would do for both under power and anchor light, so I'm leaning towards that..
cheers, John S.
On 02/05/2016 01:51 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Good idea. I am concerned about using that 180 point stern light and
preserving night vision. The newer montys have the stern light flush mounted on the transom so no light finds its way across the cockpit. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion on stern lights.....
In my case I chose to have a mast mounted tri-colour and an all round white, as well as side mounted nav lights on each side of the Bow.
So when sailing just the typical tri-colour up top, but when under power my lights are configured with the all white up top and the side mounted nav lights lit up, allowing me to avoid placement of an actual stern light at cockpit level.
Is anyone else using this configuration??
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 4 February 2016 at 19:41, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 02/04/2016 09:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
... Also very handy for dealing with the aft running lite or when
> adding wiring for an auto helm. > > > Speaking of stern light - my M17 has the standard Perko dome style light installed on the downward slope of the port side coaming where it drops down to the transom. But it was just mounted flat on the slope, meaning it's tilted quite steeply. The solid part of the dome blocks a lot of the light astern (problematic, for a stern light!).
Some of the pictures shared recently about other things (like rudders) included a view of same light in same place, but with a nice wood wedge under the light so it sits level with respect to the horizon.
For those who have something like that for their stern light - was it something you bought, or did you make it or have it made, one-off?
I want to level my light in same way so wondering if there's something ready-made or I'll need to make it.
thanks, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
--
John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (8)
-
Conbert Benneck -
Dave Scobie -
George Iemmolo -
Jazzy -
John Schinnerer -
John Tyner -
Keith R. Martin -
Thomas Buzzi