'but I've heard the M15 doesn't really go to windward in over 20 knots.' don't say this to Sea Sprite! at Lake Pleasant in Jan '13, he was running a full main and working jib had no problem going around the marks in over 20kts. (yes, Bernard was hiked out on the cockpit combing.) the big boats at the regatta that had wind speed indicators were reporting winds at 28kts. the M15 will not go well to weather unless you have both main and jib flying. if in a gust the captain lets the M15's main luff to much, or let it loose, the boat will not do well (the main sheet is the backstay, loose main sheet the jib shape goes to hell). for a cruiser a double reefed main and a 60% (or so) storm jib the M15 will scoot right along, to weather, in over 20kts. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12/4/13, casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote: GILASAILR, I think some of it comes from just looking at raw specifications, from people that haven't sailed the boats. For example, Steve Henkel's book "The Sailor's Book of Small Cruising Sailboats" says that the M15 points worse than other sailboats it's size due to reduced maximum draft. But I think this is ignoring that it's really a large low aspect ratio keel, much larger in surface area than the deeper but shorter centerboard on most other boats this size. Still, I expect keel depth does make a big difference. Serge Testa's book "500 Days: Around the World on a 12 Foot Yacht" claims that his 12 foot boat with a very deep bulb keel was able to point to windward in anything under 70 knots, and could hold position in over 70 knots! I can't wait to try for myself in SF Bay, but I've heard the M15 doesn't really go to windward in over 20 knots. That might have been on boats that didn't have good heavy weather sails? Tyler M15 ----- Original Message ----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: "montgomery boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2013 7:55:29 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: P-15 vs M-15 vs CP-16 Tyler - it appears you waded through the conflicting info. {;>) " Dude - my 63 Simca handles like it's on rails, goes 135 MPH and gets  20 MPG - it is the coolest" By nature we usually 'defend' our choices /purchases/investments as being  good and 'right' - sometimes I actually luck out. GO In a message dated 12/3/2013 6:21:36 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  casioqv@usermail.com writes: I don't  have enough experience to help with the review, but I can't wait to read  it! In deciding which small trailer sailor to buy, I found extremely  conflicting information on the relative windward performance of these boats.  Perhaps it would be possible to find or generate some objective data on  this? Thanks, Tyler M15

step waves are difficult to go to weather in ... especially when they are 1/2 the length of the boat! :: Dave Scobie -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12/4/13, casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote: I suspect the person who told me that was sailing offshore in force 5 winds, so probably was trying to beat into 9+ foot waves! Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 2:19:31 PM 'but I've heard the M15 doesn't really go to windward in over 20 knots.' don't say this to Sea Sprite!  at Lake Pleasant in Jan '13, he was running a full main and working jib had no problem going around the marks in over 20kts.  (yes, Bernard was hiked out on the cockpit combing.)  the big boats at the regatta that had wind speed indicators were reporting winds at 28kts. the M15 will not go well to weather unless you have both main and jib flying.  if in a gust the captain lets the M15's main luff to much, or let it loose, the boat will not do well (the main sheet is the backstay, loose main sheet the jib shape goes to hell).  for a cruiser a double reefed main and a 60% (or so) storm jib the M15 will scoot right along, to weather, in over 20kts. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 12/4/13, casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote: GILASAILR, I think some of it comes from just looking at raw specifications, from people that haven't sailed the boats. For example, Steve Henkel's book "The Sailor's Book of Small Cruising Sailboats" says that the M15 points worse than other sailboats it's size due to reduced maximum draft. But I think this is ignoring that it's really a large low aspect ratio keel, much larger in surface area than the deeper but shorter centerboard on most other boats this size. Still, I expect keel depth does make a big difference. Serge Testa's book "500 Days: Around the World on a 12 Foot Yacht" claims that his 12 foot boat with a very deep bulb keel was able to point to windward in anything under 70 knots, and could hold position in over 70 knots! I can't wait to try for myself in SF Bay, but I've heard the M15 doesn't really go to windward in over 20 knots. That might have been on boats that didn't have good heavy weather sails? Tyler M15 ----- Original Message ----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: "montgomery boats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2013 7:55:29 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: P-15 vs M-15 vs CP-16 Tyler - it appears you waded through the conflicting info. {;>)   " Dude - my 63 Simca handles like it's on rails, goes 135 MPH and gets  20 MPG - it is the coolest"   By nature we usually 'defend' our choices /purchases/investments as being  good and 'right' - sometimes I actually luck out.   GO     In a message dated 12/3/2013 6:21:36 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  casioqv@usermail.com writes: I don't  have enough experience to help with the review, but I can't wait to read  it! In deciding which small trailer sailor to buy, I found extremely  conflicting information on the relative windward performance of these boats.  Perhaps it would be possible to find or generate some objective data on  this? Thanks, Tyler M15