Hi Harvey, To answer your question, yes, there were very different quality of resins used in boat building. When I bought my Tripp-Lentsch 29 in Holland in '66, fiberglass boats were in their infancy, and nobody really knew what the stuff could do or how long it would last. The major reason I went with the Tripp-Lentsch, rather than a conventionally built wooden boat, was that the shipyard, one of the big three of Europe whose specialty was building expensive yachts (their competition was Camper & Nicholson in England and Abeking Rassmussen in Germany) had used Fokker Aircraft as a consultant on their fiberglass work. Twenty-six year later, when we sold the boat, there wasn't a blister to be seen anywhere. By comparison, I bought the big brother of the Tripp-Lentsch - a Northeast 38 - in 1985 that was built by a different Dutch shipyard at about the same time, '66. When the boat was hauled for storage, after we had sailed it around the Danish Islands, I got a phone call from the man that was going to do an Awlgrip paint job, who said the hull was pockmarked with blisters. I asked him to repair everything. So, two different builders: same time frame; one with extensive blistering, the other with absolutely none. Connie
My 1981 M-17 (#334-2) had thousands of blisters which I found after I took possession of it (bleah!). They were not large, fluid filled blisters, but small "pimples." Perhaps they had been fluid filled at some point, I'm not sure - the boat had been out of the water for over a year when I bought it. I first took it to a local fiberglass shop that had a good reputation (and the owner mentioned that he had done a blister job on at least one Montgomery, although that's more-or-less hearsay at this point), but the guy turned out to be one of these people who is good at what he does but cannot seem to keep himself from overcommitting, so he just never got to doing my boat. So, I had it *gently* sandblasted, which revealed and opened about 60% of the blisters. At that point we ran into the problem that, because of the lapstrake shapes, it was taking too much good material off the high points where the bottom of each plank would be if they were wood, so we stopped and I ground out the rest by hand, individually, with a Dremel tool and one of those conehead-shaped bits that looks a bit like a pencil eraser in color. People in the know who saw it commented that there were probably air voids between the gelcoat and the first layer of cloth when the boat was laid up, but, that being said, I have no idea of the boats history. From what I've read, Polyester gelcoat is porous by nature, and all of it is prone to blistering to a certain extent. I have a feeling that a few factors keep the M-boats from having blistering be typical problem (in other words, I agree that the majority of them have no blistering problems). 1) Good workmanship 2) Being built in California, which tends to have low-humidity 3) Being mostly trailer boats, they tend to get extensive drying-out periods, regularly, on their trailers I have a feeling that my M-17 had been in warm, Texas waters for a protracted period of time without a "trailer break," which was probably hard on it. Also, it was the first boat in the "new" M-17 molds, although I have no idea if that would have been a factor. At any rate, I can attest to the fact that it is possible for an M-boat to blister, although it's obviously not a common problem. On a side note: Connie, I was interested to read what you said about your Tripp-Lentsch because I'm just in the process of deciding whether to "take on" a project boat that was built in Holland. The one factor I'm not sure about yet is the bottom, as I've not been able to see it out of the water (due to the time of year, all the boats are going into the water and the yard is not interested in hauling a boat until that's over, which will be any day now). I'm hoping not to see blistering because - in addition to all the other work it needs - that would be the last straw and would probably cause me to pass the boat along to someone else. At any rate, I'm curious where your TL was built. The boat I'm looking at says it was built at: Amsterdam Shipyard, Inc. G. DeVries Lentsch, Jr. There is an actual yard number, but in my only photo of it the number is behind a bit of line that's part of the mainsheet traveler... I've read that sometimes the boat hulls were built in one yard, then finished in another, so I'm not sure how that relates to what's on the builder's plate. It was built in 1962. --- Rachel Fatty Knees 7 #302 Former owner, M-17 #334 Former owner, M-15 #517
Rachel, How did your blister repairs end up cosmetically? Is your former M17 still sailing? Thanks, Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: Rachel To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 12:14 PM Subject: Blisters My 1981 M-17 (#334-2) had thousands of blisters which I found after I took possession of it (bleah!). They were not large, fluid filled blisters, but small "pimples." Perhaps they had been fluid filled at some point, I'm not sure - the boat had been out of the water for over a year when I bought it. I first took it to a local fiberglass shop that had a good reputation (and the owner mentioned that he had done a blister job on at least one Montgomery, although that's more-or-less hearsay at this point), but the guy turned out to be one of these people who is good at what he does but cannot seem to keep himself from overcommitting, so he just never got to doing my boat. So, I had it *gently* sandblasted, which revealed and opened about 60% of the blisters. At that point we ran into the problem that, because of the lapstrake shapes, it was taking too much good material off the high points where the bottom of each plank would be if they were wood, so we stopped and I ground out the rest by hand, individually, with a Dremel tool and one of those conehead-shaped bits that looks a bit like a pencil eraser in color. People in the know who saw it commented that there were probably air voids between the gelcoat and the first layer of cloth when the boat was laid up, but, that being said, I have no idea of the boats history. From what I've read, Polyester gelcoat is porous by nature, and all of it is prone to blistering to a certain extent. I have a feeling that a few factors keep the M-boats from having blistering be typical problem (in other words, I agree that the majority of them have no blistering problems). 1) Good workmanship 2) Being built in California, which tends to have low-humidity 3) Being mostly trailer boats, they tend to get extensive drying-out periods, regularly, on their trailers I have a feeling that my M-17 had been in warm, Texas waters for a protracted period of time without a "trailer break," which was probably hard on it. Also, it was the first boat in the "new" M-17 molds, although I have no idea if that would have been a factor. At any rate, I can attest to the fact that it is possible for an M-boat to blister, although it's obviously not a common problem. On a side note: Connie, I was interested to read what you said about your Tripp-Lentsch because I'm just in the process of deciding whether to "take on" a project boat that was built in Holland. The one factor I'm not sure about yet is the bottom, as I've not been able to see it out of the water (due to the time of year, all the boats are going into the water and the yard is not interested in hauling a boat until that's over, which will be any day now). I'm hoping not to see blistering because - in addition to all the other work it needs - that would be the last straw and would probably cause me to pass the boat along to someone else. At any rate, I'm curious where your TL was built. The boat I'm looking at says it was built at: Amsterdam Shipyard, Inc. G. DeVries Lentsch, Jr. There is an actual yard number, but in my only photo of it the number is behind a bit of line that's part of the mainsheet traveler... I've read that sometimes the boat hulls were built in one yard, then finished in another, so I'm not sure how that relates to what's on the builder's plate. It was built in 1962. --- Rachel Fatty Knees 7 #302 Former owner, M-17 #334 Former owner, M-15 #517 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:09 PM, Craig F. Honshell wrote:
Rachel, How did your blister repairs end up cosmetically? Is your former M17 still sailing? Thanks, Craig
Well, I got it to the completely dried out and ground out stage, then began the filling and sanding process (with the Interlux underwater two-part filling compound - can't remember the number, but it's light blue). That was the one time I would love to have had a smooth-hulled boat, as it was hard to do the lapstrakes well. At any rate, at that point my life took a turn and I had a chance to go long-distance cruising on a friend's boat, so I sold the Monty as I didn't have a good place to store it while I was gone. A fellow in the Seattle area bought it (I believe he used to post here very occasionally), finished the job and then sailed it. Or at least I think he did. I was only on the Internet spottily while I was off cruising, but I got the idea that he bought another M-17, and maybe combined parts - or maybe just trailers or motors. At any rate, I believe both boats still exist :-) I learned a lot of boat-repair skills on that boat as it really quite neglected. In addition to the blister issues, I re-cored large parts of the deck and cockpit sole, re-worked the core around the chainplates, repaired the mast step where the original core had compressed, sanded and varnished all the wood (it was bare, grey, and grooved deeply enough that I didn't think there was enough original wood left to withstand the bare treatment anymore - otherwise I'm a fan of bare teak), and removed every bit of hardware in order to overdrill and fill with epoxy (lots of damp core around the fasteners, but I was able to catch many of them before the dampness spread). I also buffed out the extremely-oxidized topsides and deck. It was quite a project! Now I don't know why I'm considering *another* project boat! I guess I just can't let these lessons go to waste ;-) And I hate to see a good boat go to seed. Okay, long answer to a short question. Actually, the way most Montys are used, I bet deck-core moisture issues would be a lot more likely than hull blisters. The epoxy/re-bedding part of the project really wasn't that bad; then after that you have no more core worries when the bedding wears out the next time (inevitable) - you just rebed. --- Rachel
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chbenneck＠juno.com -
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Rachel