Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
Only problem I can think of is that you would need to make/buy a wood mast and step it on the keel to get rid of the shrouds (I think). The mast would need to go thru the foredeck, probably right in front of the house. If you'll send me 10. I'll send you a sailplan, or you can do it the hard way and just measure things out carefully. It wouldn't be a trick to keep the CE in the same place. Obviously for SF you'd want to keep the rig pretty small, but junk rigs are apparently so easy to reef you might be able to have both worlds. I really don't claim to know what I'm talking about with junk rigs, but I know the theory. have fun! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Nixon" <thoslloyd@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15 Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 11312 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Thanks for the reply. Send me the address and the 10 will be on the way. I still want to preserve the trailerability of the M15. The Hasler/McLeod has a section on constructing a tabernacle similar to those used on Chinese river junks, and that's the route (or something similar) that I would go. Sent from my iPad
On Jul 10, 2014, at 6:20 PM, "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Only problem I can think of is that you would need to make/buy a wood mast and step it on the keel to get rid of the shrouds (I think). The mast would need to go thru the foredeck, probably right in front of the house.
If you'll send me 10. I'll send you a sailplan, or you can do it the hard way and just measure things out carefully. It wouldn't be a trick to keep the CE in the same place. Obviously for SF you'd want to keep the rig pretty small, but junk rigs are apparently so easy to reef you might be able to have both worlds. I really don't claim to know what I'm talking about with junk rigs, but I know the theory.
have fun!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Nixon" <thoslloyd@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 11312 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Sorry- just got my email going after more than a week. Send me your address and I'll get the 10 sail diagram off. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Nixon" <thoslloyd@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15 Thanks for the reply. Send me the address and the 10 will be on the way. I still want to preserve the trailerability of the M15. The Hasler/McLeod has a section on constructing a tabernacle similar to those used on Chinese river junks, and that's the route (or something similar) that I would go. Sent from my iPad
On Jul 10, 2014, at 6:20 PM, "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Only problem I can think of is that you would need to make/buy a wood mast and step it on the keel to get rid of the shrouds (I think). The mast would need to go thru the foredeck, probably right in front of the house.
If you'll send me 10. I'll send you a sailplan, or you can do it the hard way and just measure things out carefully. It wouldn't be a trick to keep the CE in the same place. Obviously for SF you'd want to keep the rig pretty small, but junk rigs are apparently so easy to reef you might be able to have both worlds. I really don't claim to know what I'm talking about with junk rigs, but I know the theory.
have fun!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Nixon" <thoslloyd@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
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Thank you. Thought I'd lost you. My address is: Tom Nixon 2095A Curtis Dr. Penngrove CA 94951 Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 25, 2014, at 4:29 PM, "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Sorry- just got my email going after more than a week. Send me your address and I'll get the 10 sail diagram off.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Nixon" <thoslloyd@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15
Thanks for the reply. Send me the address and the 10 will be on the way. I still want to preserve the trailerability of the M15. The Hasler/McLeod has a section on constructing a tabernacle similar to those used on Chinese river junks, and that's the route (or something similar) that I would go.
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 10, 2014, at 6:20 PM, "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Only problem I can think of is that you would need to make/buy a wood mast and step it on the keel to get rid of the shrouds (I think). The mast would need to go thru the foredeck, probably right in front of the house.
If you'll send me 10. I'll send you a sailplan, or you can do it the hard way and just measure things out carefully. It wouldn't be a trick to keep the CE in the same place. Obviously for SF you'd want to keep the rig pretty small, but junk rigs are apparently so easy to reef you might be able to have both worlds. I really don't claim to know what I'm talking about with junk rigs, but I know the theory.
have fun!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Nixon" <thoslloyd@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 11312 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Sorry, I sent that first message inadvertently by moving my iPad. I wasn't quite done. Hasler and McLeod say " An unstayed mast in a good tabernacle should be just as seaworthy as with normal stepping but there are penalties to pay in below decks layout and above decks appearance. " In case you don't access to their book, the river junk plan involves a slot in the deck allowing the past to pivot on the tabernacle and butt into the keel. But they have another suggestion of a "light alloy mast built with a hinged joint at about 2'6" above the deck, enabling the upper part of the mast to be lowered down aft to the horizontal. When upright a long tubular sleeve covers the joint and supports the mast firmly. Before lowering this sleeve is slid up the mast and held clear of the joint." The point out that there may be difficulty in preventing the sleeve from seizing up if used in salt water. I think that problem can be solved. I plan on working on some variation of that arrangement with the lower section buried and with the support of partners.Some kind of collar sounds like a good idea. And I'm not sure the mast has to be alloy, but it's still very much a work in process. Thought process at this point. Thanks again for your help. Tom Sent from my iPad
On Jul 10, 2014, at 6:20 PM, "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Only problem I can think of is that you would need to make/buy a wood mast and step it on the keel to get rid of the shrouds (I think). The mast would need to go thru the foredeck, probably right in front of the house.
If you'll send me 10. I'll send you a sailplan, or you can do it the hard way and just measure things out carefully. It wouldn't be a trick to keep the CE in the same place. Obviously for SF you'd want to keep the rig pretty small, but junk rigs are apparently so easy to reef you might be able to have both worlds. I really don't claim to know what I'm talking about with junk rigs, but I know the theory.
have fun!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Nixon" <thoslloyd@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 11312 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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What about a stayed junk rig? Tom Colvin junks use a stayed mast, but also fly a jib on a bowsprit. Some photos of Tom Colvin stayed junks: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Tom-Colvin-Pipestrelle-Steel-Schooner-2... http://www.usvi-info.com/kalad/ http://www.thomasecolvin.com/designs.htm Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:20:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15 Only problem I can think of is that you would need to make/buy a wood mast and step it on the keel to get rid of the shrouds (I think). The mast would need to go thru the foredeck, probably right in front of the house. If you'll send me 10. I'll send you a sailplan, or you can do it the hard way and just measure things out carefully. It wouldn't be a trick to keep the CE in the same place. Obviously for SF you'd want to keep the rig pretty small, but junk rigs are apparently so easy to reef you might be able to have both worlds. I really don't claim to know what I'm talking about with junk rigs, but I know the theory. have fun! jerry
Thank you. I'll check it out. But I would prefer to do without stays or jib. On Jul 11, 2014, at 12:04 PM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
What about a stayed junk rig?
Tom Colvin junks use a stayed mast, but also fly a jib on a bowsprit.
Some photos of Tom Colvin stayed junks: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Tom-Colvin-Pipestrelle-Steel-Schooner-2... http://www.usvi-info.com/kalad/ http://www.thomasecolvin.com/designs.htm
Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:20:49 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15
Only problem I can think of is that you would need to make/buy a wood mast and step it on the keel to get rid of the shrouds (I think). The mast would need to go thru the foredeck, probably right in front of the house.
If you'll send me 10. I'll send you a sailplan, or you can do it the hard way and just measure things out carefully. It wouldn't be a trick to keep the CE in the same place. Obviously for SF you'd want to keep the rig pretty small, but junk rigs are apparently so easy to reef you might be able to have both worlds. I really don't claim to know what I'm talking about with junk rigs, but I know the theory.
have fun!
jerry
My other m -17 had a junk rig, as it was made from junk I had laying around, and it was great so therefore junk rigs are great very low cost and extremely powerful, went to weather like a witch, I still have it if anyone wants it, it will make m 17s leap tall buildings while luffing. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good might Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 10, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Thomas Nixon <thoslloyd@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
Stan - Are you drinking again? jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ezbumm" <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:48 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15 My other m -17 had a junk rig, as it was made from junk I had laying around, and it was great so therefore junk rigs are great very low cost and extremely powerful, went to weather like a witch, I still have it if anyone wants it, it will make m 17s leap tall buildings while luffing. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good might Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 10, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Thomas Nixon <thoslloyd@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 11313 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Do you have to be bi-lingual to tell the rig what to do? On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 5:31 AM, jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org
wrote:
Stan - Are you drinking again?
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ezbumm" <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman. xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:48 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: junk rig on an M15
My other m -17 had a junk rig, as it was made from junk I had laying around, and it was great so therefore junk rigs are great very low cost and extremely powerful, went to weather like a witch, I still have it if anyone wants it, it will make m 17s leap tall buildings while luffing. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good might
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 10, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Thomas Nixon <thoslloyd@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 11313 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Tom: if your idea is to do the change for the 'fun of it' i say GO FOR IT. i've been a fan/follower of Roger Taylor for some time - http://www.thesimplesailor.com/index.html Roger's proven the junk rig is a good _ocean_ crossing rig. but it is _not_ a rig for one wanting to go to weather. i'm not saying a junk will not go to weather ... IT WILL ... a junk will not go to weather as well as a sloop. Roger is 'puttering around' the northern atlantic. his is not spending a lot of time tacking up narrow passages when windward ability is needed. having a junk rig will not be quicker to set up. in addition you will have a mast you need to lift an place into a 'tall' tabernacle or through the deck onto the keep. next you have a LOT of running rigging to install once the 'stick is up'. if you are looking for a way to avoid foredeck work why not put a furler on the forestay? the M15's mast is so easy to put up ... and small ... that a furler will not a a lot of weight. a new headsail and furling unit will be a lot less $$$ than a conversion to a new standing rig. just my 2-cents. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Jul 10, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Thomas Nixon <thoslloyd@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
Thanks for your input Dave. Food for thought. I really hadn't thought about the furler option. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 11, 2014, at 8:16 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom:
if your idea is to do the change for the 'fun of it' i say GO FOR IT.
i've been a fan/follower of Roger Taylor for some time - http://www.thesimplesailor.com/index.html
Roger's proven the junk rig is a good _ocean_ crossing rig. but it is _not_ a rig for one wanting to go to weather. i'm not saying a junk will not go to weather ... IT WILL ... a junk will not go to weather as well as a sloop.
Roger is 'puttering around' the northern atlantic. his is not spending a lot of time tacking up narrow passages when windward ability is needed.
having a junk rig will not be quicker to set up. in addition you will have a mast you need to lift an place into a 'tall' tabernacle or through the deck onto the keep. next you have a LOT of running rigging to install once the 'stick is up'.
if you are looking for a way to avoid foredeck work why not put a furler on the forestay? the M15's mast is so easy to put up ... and small ... that a furler will not a a lot of weight. a new headsail and furling unit will be a lot less $$$ than a conversion to a new standing rig.
just my 2-cents.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Jul 10, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Thomas Nixon <thoslloyd@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone tried a junk rig on a Montgomery 15? I have boat #191, and I am coming to sailing in my late sixties. Consequently I'd rather stay off the foredeck in difficult weather if I can. (My intended sailing grounds are San Francisco Bay and Tomales Bay.) After reading several books, notably Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income and Hasler and McLeod's Practical Junk Rig, I'm convinced that a junk rig might extend my sailing life. And I think it would go nicely on an M15; but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with it before and figured out mast placement and mounting etc. Thanks, Tom Nixon M15 #191
participants (6)
-
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Dave Scobie -
Ezbumm -
jerry montgomery -
Thomas Buzzi -
Thomas Nixon