Rick, I am referring to the 'old' model aluminum asymmetric cleat (1980 model for ref.). Sorry, I was not aware of a change in the cleats on the later models. I always have at least two turns on the winch before cleating. Spring rains here in Phoenix. GO M-17 # 316a (early model) In a message dated 4/11/2009 10:14:35 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, tjenk@gte.net writes: That cross sheeting is a great idea. As for the cleat, are you talking about the 5" plastic jam cleat behind the winch on some newer 17's? I envision you throwing a loop around the winch to add some friction, which would stop the line from jamming so hard in the cleat (?). ----- Original Message ----- From: <GILASAILR@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 7:43 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Winchers

Rick, If you are sailing alone, try taking the sheet once around the leeward winch and then up across the boat to the weather side winch and do the work of trimming and cleating at that winch - this is called cross sheeting and is used on light boats that require the crew to be on the weather rail due to ballast and the ability to trim from the weather rails The cleat that is on the 17 behind the winches is a marvelous little thing in that one full wrap usually secures the sheet no matter what size line is in use. (I use from 3/16 to 5/16 sheets)

A friend of mine who currently sails a Melges 24, saw the cleat the other day and commented how nice they were - he remarked that they were a 'good design'. He is considering the purchase of either a Mariner or a M-17 as he is tired of the Melges 24 scene.

Give it a try and see if it works for your style. The price is certainly right and no drilling is involved! LOL

Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing! GO

In a message dated 4/10/2009 3:16:34 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wesi@comcast.net writes:

Rick, I have them on my M17. Don't use them much, it' easier to just use the cleat. They do, however, work pretty much as advertised. Ken M17 306 ----- Original Message ----- From: <JDavies104@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: M_Boats: Winchers

...

Speaking of jibsheet cleating, does anyone out there have Barton Winchers mounted on their M17 jibsheet winches? I have read mixed reviews - some like them and some don't - and would be interested in the evaluation of actual users on a boat like mine. I think that expectations have a lot to do with opinions, that is, if you expect them to work like self-tailers you're probably going to be disappointed. I would just like to know if they make grinding the winch and cleating the jibsheet any easier when single-handing. I now have the stock jam cleat mounted on the coaming aft of the winch, which is not the handiest position for re-cleating when you're on the high side. Thanks for any opinions.

Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L

************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http...

...

%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

**************Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession.

(http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003)

_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003)